What's the latest on pops and clicks? [Archive]

Gav

08-16-2001, 03:21 PM

I was getting ready to Flash the BIOS on the SCSI controller but checked and they already match. I\'m only using one drive for both system and samples so it\'s not a slaved drive thing. All cards are in the same slots but it\'s possible, I suppose, that IRQ assignments got mucked up along the way.

When I get a chance I will check it out but the damn thing has decided to not even start up now so I may be looking at a motherboard issue which KILLS me since I already sent this motherboard back once and this is the \"new\" one!! Aaahhh! I would LOVE to be able to swear right now. *******!!!!!!
Fortunately my other machine is working perfectly (well, almost...I can only get as far as about 110 voices without consistent pops and clicks) and getting me by for now.

Thanks for the help guys. When I can sweep some work out of the way and buy my self some time to trouble shoot this I will and I\'ll report the results in depth.
Thanks again!

Gav

superdon

08-17-2001, 05:09 PM

Using a Raid 0 Array with two IBM GPX 40 GB, always had clicks and pops synchronously with harddisk access from Gigastudio. after
i switched PCI Delay Transaction to a different setting then zero all the pops and clicks where gone ! Now the performance is GREAT !

Gav

08-24-2001, 08:40 AM

Ok,

My bad \'motherboard\' turned out actually to be a video card issue. Swapped in a different video card and all was well. This has not solved the pops and clicks problem but at least I\'m up and running up to about 70 voices. After that it\'s like walking on bubble-wrap.
All other parameters mentioned so far seem to be ok. Any other suggestions, even the longest of long shots, are welcome!
Thanks folks!

Gav

08-24-2001, 04:53 PM

Well, this just sounds downright abnormal, which would suggest a systematic approach to testing and finding out where the problem lies.

Firstly I would suggest downloading Sisoft sandra lite for both machines and running a harddrive benchmark for your gigs drive. Have a look at what the access time and random block read rate is. If the two machines are close, the problem is probably related to soundcard/mem/cpu issues. If there is a marked difference, we are looking at harddrive/cabling/controller issues.

Gav

08-28-2001, 12:37 PM

Well, it turns out that one of the 256MB Ram sticks in my troubled PC is bad. That\'s along with the aforementioned video card problems. This means that all this time, the PC has not been using that RAM and therefore it\'s been running with 256 rather than 512 as I thought.
Isn\'t 256 MB enough to avoid pops and clicks though?

cc,
Where do I get Sisoft? Never heard of it before but I\'ll definately try it.
Just noticed that you\'re in South Africa. I\'m still fascinated by stuff like that. The internet can be so very cool sometimes.

Cheers,

Gav.

08-28-2001, 01:32 PM

Hi Gav

Sisoft Sandra Lite can be downloaded from zdnet, as I recall.

Yes, 256M RAM should be sufficient for no pops and clicks - however, dodgy RAM can have some other side-effects as well. I think you have a board with the Intel i815 chipset? Those are quite sensitive to timing issues, and if a DRAM stick is not properly responding, strange things can happen in other parts of the system as well.

If you have pulled that stick out, and you still have pops and clicks - perhaps the latency is set incorrectly on the memory.

Gav

08-28-2001, 02:00 PM

I\'ll check the latency this afternoon and report back. I don\'t know about the chipset. It\'s an ASUS CUV4X-D motherboard so, whatever chipset that is....
I\'ll check the system with Sisoft too and report back on any findings there.
Can\'t thank you enough for the help!!!

Gav

Gav

08-28-2001, 07:49 PM

ok cc, here it is so far

I downloaded Sisoft SANDRA and discovered that my \"bad\" system is running FASTER on average than my good system.

Giga A (troubled)
Random Read - 8MB/sec
Acces Time - 5ms

Giga B (so far so good)
Random Read - 8MB/sec
Access time - 6ms

I spent some time A/Bing all the Setup setting on each computer. The only ones which varied were the temperature of the motherboard/processor etc. Everything else matched.
So, this is looking like a SCSI driver problem or something isn\'t it?
By the way, how do I go about messing with \'memory latency\' as you mentioned? Couldn\'t find that anywhere. I\'m a Mac guy to begin with so I\'m already at a disadvantage I suppose.
Thanks again, and in advance for your brilliance!

Later

Gav

Gav

08-28-2001, 07:51 PM

I didn\'t mean that it sounds like a \"SCSI driver problem\", I meant \"soundcard problem\".

ooops

Gav

SteveHanlon

08-28-2001, 10:08 PM

Hi,

I have a computer with an Aark 20/20+. I added a M-Audio Audiophile card to dedicate solely to Giga, while the Aark is dedicated to Cakewalk.

Suddenly, pops and crackles. I wrote M-Audio about this. Below is the techie\'s response:

Check your irq\'s after installing new hardware as the Delta needs its own irq.
Sounds like an IRQ conflict most likely. Go to your \"device manager tab\" located under \"Control panel\" and \"system\" and double click on computer at the top. Here is where you will see your IRQ listings.
Where is the Midiman Product?
Is it sharing a IRQ with something else, other than PCI steering?
Do you have any other available IRQs, meaning are there any numbers missing from the 00 to 15?
If an IRQ is available then remove the Device from \"Sound, Video Game Controllers\" under \"Device Manager\" With computer turned off, move card to another slot. Some systems BIOS will allow you to turn off Plug and Play and assign a particular PCI slot a specific IRQ. You will need to allocate a single IRQ not shared with any other device to to slot that the Midiman card is in. This feature is usually located under the PCI Bus or PNP option of the BIOS.
If you do not have an IRQ available you may be able to disable one of you COM ports if it is available. You can do this either in the Bios or from the device manager list.
How to determine the IRQ settings of your computer
1. Right Click on my computer icon choose properties and click on \"Device Manager\"
2. Double click on computer at the top of the list and find IRQ number the Midiman device is listed on. IT CAN NOT BE SHARED WITH ANY OTHER DEVICE except IRQ steering. IRQ 9 is not a very good for high quality audio, use any other IRQ if at all possible.
3. If no IRQ number is open (missing from the sequentially numbered list 00 to 15) then you need to free up one. Usually a COM port can be disabled in the system BIOS system to free up IRQ 3 or 4. BIOS Setup is reached immediately after powering up your computer by tapping the \"Delete\" or \"F1\" or \"F2\" keys. You need to Disable either of the 2 Serial ports.
\"On Board Serial Port A\" is for COM1 = IRQ4
\"On Board Serial Port B\" is for COM2 = IRQ3.

Double click on \"MY computer\"
go to \"VIEW\"
go to \"FOLDER OPTIONS\"
click on the \"VIEW\" tab
make sure \"show all files\" is checked
make sure \"Hide extensions\" is unchecked.
Now do a \"find\" (\"Start\"/\"Find/Files and Folders\") for Delta and remove
Delta_w0.drv, Delta_w1.drv, Delta_w2.drv, Delta_w3.drv, , Delta_w5.drv, Delta_w6.drv, Delta_wa.drv, Deltacpl.cpl, Deltampu.drv, Deltapnl.exe, Deltasio.dll, Delteasi.dll, Ma_delta.dll, Ma_delta.inf, Ma_delta.vxd.
You might not have all of these files but delete the files you do have. If a files says it is unable to be deleted then reboot and then you will be able to delete the file.
Finally you go back to your \"Device Manager\" and hit the \"Refresh\" button and \"New hardware wizard\" will pop up and you hit \"next\" then \"search for best driver\" and the you will select \"floppy drive\" and hit \"next\" and finish the installation of the driver. You might have to do this procedure again where you physically swap the PCI slot.
Or you can just try swapping the current slot the card is installed in on the mother board to another.
In Device Manager you can reserve resources to Move a device off of a particular IRQ. Double click on \"Computer\" 1st category listed at top of
Device Manager. Reserve Resources tab has and ADD button. The effect is to move all device off of a Currently used IRQ.
ONLY PERFORM THIS WITH IRQ 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11!!!!!!

08-29-2001, 03:50 AM

Ok, next test to run would be the memory bandwidth test, this should show up if there are problems with the memory timing.

With regards to that 1ms, it should not make much difference http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Gav

08-29-2001, 08:09 AM

Well, about 1:00am last night (this morning) I was ready to hunt down whoever gave Marty that IRQ advice and kill! But alas, it turned out to be my mucking about with IRQs that was the culprit. At least I think....
Shuffled some IRQs around and the \'good\' system seemed to improve (maybe) and the \'bad\' system was getting BLUE SCREENS!!! and not even starting up at all. Everything from hanging when the desktop loaded all the way down to not even posting the BIOS at all!
I managed to reset the IRQ settings to what they were and after a couple failed attempts, got that thing up on it\'s feet again. Did find out though, that the SCSI controller IS sharing an IRQ with the Soundcard. Like I said, I tried to fix it and it only ended in disaster so I had to return it to the way it was.
Since I know NOTHING about IRQs and the like, are there any quirks I should know? Things that can\'t go with other things? etc, etc.

cc,
I\'ll run the memory bandwidth test today. I\'m really liking Sisoft SANDRA but I\'m starting to get annoyed at all the good stuff that\'s not on the standard version. If I hadn\'t just bought a Finalizer, Powercore, Mackie monitors, and a whole bunch of other miscellaneous toys I\'d get the upgrade.

I\'m sure I\'ll be back again....later.

Gav

08-29-2001, 09:39 AM

Gav,

I am just thinking - you should actually be getting somewhat faster access times from your SCSI drive.

Do yourself the following favour:

Look in your motherboard manual (you could download it from asus\'s site if necessary), where it describes the PCI slots. One of these may be indicated as being a \"Priority\" Slot. Put your SCSI controller in there, and make sure \"Priority PCI\" is turned on in the BIOS.

Alternatively, you can also put your soundcard into the priority slot, but in your case I think you would gain more by putting the SCSI controller there.

For me the easiest way to deal with IRQs, is as follows: in your motherboard manual, you will see that some slots typically share an IRQ with some other slots. Just make sure that you put your cards in slots that *don\'t* share anything.

Asus in general write very good manuals, probably the most respected in the motherboard industry, so this should not be too difficult.

One of my machines is an ASUS CUSL2C board, 512M Ram, 1GHz, and I can get 160 poly from either of my IDE drives. So you should be able to do this easily as well.

Maybe you did not purchase fast RAM, this can also influence things, but should not to such an extent. This would also show up in the memory bandwidth test.

It is also quite possible that whoever built your system, did not properly adjust the CPU speed-detect (in which case they deserve to be shot - but it happens). And on some boards (I don\'t know about your one), if you use a CPU with 133FSB, but 100FSB memory, and then set your FSB to 100, the chip will only run at 75% of its actual clock speed.

So again it is worth reading your motherboard manual to see if there are any jumpers or switches which need to be set on the board - probably not since Asus likes to do this all inside their BIOS. And it is worth trying to understand the meaning of CPU:MEM FSB ratios, and making sure that your system is configured accordingly.

Sometimes, there can be problems in the system - e.g. the Windows \"plug&pray\" system sometimes installs unconnected stubbs to drivers that don\'t exist. This can cause strange behaviour, and unfortunately I don\'t know of an easy way to track down these types of problems. I have had success once by running Norton Diagnostics (the entire set in one go), and checking to see exactly during which diagnostic it crashed. Doing things one at a time did not show up anything!

One of the most major things I have found to influence GSt performance, is making sure all drivers in your system is up to date. That would include the BIOS of your motherboard, SCSI controller, videocard, etc. and all drivers, especially videocard, sound and SCSI drivers.

Frequently, when these products are released onto the market, these things are still very bare-bones, and thus deliver sub-optimal performance.

Gav

08-29-2001, 10:01 AM

Jeez! Well cc, take yourself out for a hell of a first class meal and send me the bill! Whether or not any of this works, you\'ve gone well out of your way to help!
I\'m going to print this out and hit the books tonight. Can\'t wait to get into all this. As frustrating as it is to learn, it\'s nice to start understanding this stuff. (I just have to do it FAST with a movie contract on the way this week!) With Mac, it\'s never this complicated which has meant so far that I\'m helpless in the PC world.
So, thank you again cc, and I\'ll let you know how it all goes. I certainly have my work cut out for me!
Cheers

Gav

Gav

08-29-2001, 06:27 PM

Ok cc, I ran the benchmark test on the memory and produced the following, somewhat annoying results which probably is informative to you but is simply dumb to me (and my PC newbie head).
The Bad PC had the following results:
Int - 186MB/sec
Float - 211 MB/sec
The Good PC had these:
Int - 182MB/sec
Float - 207MB/sec
So, in the \'testing\' done so far, the Bad computer comes out the winner...only it doesn\'t actually WORK!
I looked in the ASUS manual for something about \'Priority PCI Slot\' and found nothing. I have managed to get the Sound Card on IRQ 4 (along with \"steering\") and the SCSI controller on IRQ 10 (along with \"steering\") but that\'s about as much control as I\'ve been able to assert over the situation.
Hopefully I don\'t lose you to boredom before I get this problem isolated, properly reprimanded and swiftly FIXED!!!
In the mean time I\'m gonna keep poking around in the \"DriverUpdateLand\".

Gav

08-30-2001, 06:14 AM

Hehe, well, hopefully we will crack this one soon.

Again, the differences in the mem bandwith test is not sufficient to pinpoint any problem.

Just to double-check: USB should be turned off in the BIOS (see under Advanced / PCI configuration).

Your motherboard uses the following chipset: VIA VT82C694XDP northbridge, VT82C686B southbridge.

Thus it will also be important for you to have up-to-date \"chipset drivers\" , which you can find at http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/dr/driver.jsp (\"http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/dr/driver.jsp\")

(This is the so-called \"Apollo Pro133A\" chipset.) VIA have what they call the 4-in-1 driver, which you can download and install in one pass. One of these is the IRQ miniport driver - as I recall there were problems in earlier versions that made the IRQ steering not work properly. Also, it is possible that these drivers have not yet been installed at all on the machine, since frequently a machine will work without them (though not optimally), in which case again there may be issues with IRQ routing.

I do not know if this chipset supports PCI priority - the Intel i815 does. Unfortunately the English of the Via documentation is a bit hard for me to understand http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif (which is the main reason I decided to buy Intel chipsets for subsequent machines).

You can also check to see if there are any differences in the timing values noted on various pages in the BIOS configuration between the two machines.

ASUS did also release a BIOS update to support the PIII D stepping processor, so make sure you are using the latest motherboard BIOS.

PS: What SCSI card are you using?

[This message has been edited by cc (edited 08-30-2001).]

Gav

08-30-2001, 08:23 AM

Well, where to begin...

Firstly, I\'ve already A/Bed each and every setting in the BIOS of both machines. The only thing that differed AT ALL was the temperature readings. This includes the USB being DISABLED on both machines.

Last night I attempted Start-up (count \'em) 31 times and never once reached the desktop. (I probably would have gotten fed up earlier but I was fiddling with my TC Finalizer I just brought home) This is including trying to boot with the boot disk. Finally, I moved the SCSI controller (an Adaptec 29160 by the way) over one slot (2 to 3) and I was fine after that. Odd. Still with the pops and clicks though. (and I\'m still not getting near 160 on my other PC. Maybe it\'s suffering from the same ailment only to a lesser degree. I don\'t have to tell you that it will terrify me to make any changes to that PC even if it will theoretically improve performance.)

I will get all over this chipset driver business and motherboard BIOS updating today.

Now, this is war...

Gav

08-30-2001, 10:51 AM

What memory do you have in? If you are regularly not getting to the desktop, it sounds more like hardware than anything else.

You should maybe also try a search on the internet for problems related to your specific hardware combinations - perhaps you have fallen foul of one of the \'can\'t use this drive with that keyboard if you have xyz motherboard\' problems so prevalent in the PC world. One of our local distributors keeps a list of issues known to them, but it will be a few days before I get to see the latest one...

Gav

08-30-2001, 02:27 PM

Aaaahhhhh, too many numbers at the Asus site. Found BIOS pages but haven\'t the slightest idea which one to download...
I\'m working on it but any help would be appreciated deeply...
Sheesh what a complication.
(in a hurry....gotta go...thanks in advance....again)

Gav

Haydn

08-31-2001, 08:26 PM

This definitely sounds like a hardware issue since you\'re not getting to the desktop. Does it stop at the same spot or various areas? Make sure your CPU fan is cooling the processor properly. Just had a system the other day that was hanging on boot and found that a piece of plastic was between the fan heat sink and the processor. The person who built the machine forgot to remove the plastic!

09-01-2001, 01:56 AM

Its also strange the thing about moving the scsi card by one slot to make things better. Which suggests maybe a faulty scsi card, or perhaps timing issues in bus access.

What memory did you have put in?

PS: to get to the bios drivers: you have a \"socket 370\" type board, then just select the model number of your board.

Robert Kral

09-05-2001, 01:22 AM

Hi Guys,

Interesting stuff on this thread!! I too am a PC newbie, meaning I\'m used to the Mac, but have run gigastudio/sampler for quite a while now.

My first two gigastudios are working great. I just got a new one and it SUCKS!! I read this thread just now and my eyes are glued to the screen, becuase when Gav mentioned \"sounds like walking on bubble wrap\" not only did I completely LOL, but that\'s the problem I have with my new machine. It literally CRACKLES along when voices get to about 70, and sometimes just 40.

GAV, I\'m not sure if you mentioned what your mixing board is but I had trouble getting to the desktop of my new machine. It just wouldn\'t do it. SOLUTION in my case was to turn OFF my 02R digital mixer (I use TDIF by the way), THEN start my NEW computer (the old gigastudios couldn\'t care less), BAM the desktop would finally appear. THEN I switch my 02Rs back on.

Don\'t know if it relates to you but thought I\'d mention it. PLEASE let us know on this thread if your crackles ever dissappear. Luckily I have the other Gigas to work with for now, but I\'d like to get to the bottom of this too.

[This message has been edited by Robert Kral (edited 09-05-2001).]

Robert Kral

09-05-2001, 01:44 AM

Um, just noticed something. You were suggesting the midiman product (in my case its the midisport 4x4 USB) shouldn\'t share a setting number with anyting other than PCI IRQ Steering.

I can\'t find the midiman mentioned anywhere on both the machine that DOES work properly and the one with all the crackles. However I am wondering if its the \"PCI to USB Universal Host Controller.

Please tell me if you think the following is odd....ALL of the following are set to number 11 (as listed n \"Computer Properties/view resources\")

ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
ALS4000 PCI Multimedia Device
ALS400 Audio Device (WDM)
Via Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller.

Yes, that last one is listed twice. Is this odd??

Haydn

09-05-2001, 03:40 PM

Robert,

I had nothing but problems using the USB MidiSport. I\'m now using a parallel port MOTU Express MIDI interface and it works great. Was getting constant pops with the USB interface even on simple sequences. I didn\'t even have the USB port on the same IRQ as my sound card.

Looks like your USB port is on the same IRQ as your sound card driver. Also, your motherboard probably has 2 USB interfaces like mine - that is why you have 2 drivers.

I returned the USB MidiSport and then I disabled the USB port. I get full polyphony from my system without pops now.

UKSimon

09-06-2001, 04:38 AM

On the subject of pops and crackles, does any one know why I have them only on one library. I\'ve got malsmjo, gigapiano, symphonic organ, and ultimate strings and have no problems at all. I load in EW Steinway B and pops and crackles. Also I\'ve noticed on my 1Ghz, 256mb machine that Malsmjo (1.85gb) uses about 25% of ram and Steinway B (1.2gb) uses 38%. How can something smaller use more ram. Weird.

I\'ve read the previous threads on changing IRQs and stuff, (sounds really scary) could that problem effect only one Library or would it be apparent on everything?

Any insights from you technical marvels would be very welcome.

Cheers

Simon

Robert Kral

09-06-2001, 02:06 PM

UPDATE: LOOKS LIKE MY PROBLEM IS SOLVED!!

I called Maxtor to check a few things out. My gigasounds are stored on a second Maxtor Diamond Max 60gig drive. Maxtor states that these are DMA drives and the DMA checkbox should be checked (Device Manager: Disk Drives: \"settings\"). I could never get this to remain checked after restart.

Turns out that when I had the machine built, they didn\'t use the correct DMA cable for this drive (strange because Maxtor provides these in the box). It needs a DMA 80 wire cable, whcih has a blue connector for the motherboard, then a gray connector and the last connector is black. I switched to the correct cable (luckily I had one lying around!) and now I can SMASH my way through gigapiano (155 voices) with no audio break up at all.

Yippee!!

Gav

09-06-2001, 02:25 PM

That\'s interesting. Now that I think of it, there is 1 component that is different in my two machines and that is the SCSI cable connecting the drive to the motherboard. I ordered my parts \"whitebox\" from the manufacturer so the drives didn\'t come with any SCSI cables. That\'s my next thing to check out I would say...

Gav

Gav

09-06-2001, 05:27 PM

Well, I\'ve not killed myself yet but, believe me, the gun is loaded!
It\'s not the SCSI cables. Swapped \'em. Exactly the same performance from both machines. (and for those just joining the saga that\'s, 115ish voices from the \'GOOD\' PC and barely 80 from the \'BAD\' one)
Just for the hell of it I pulled all 512MB of RAM out of the good machine and stuck it in the bad one so that it would have lots of RAM to play with. (Since one of the RAM sticks in the bad machine turned out to be just as bad, I figured it might have been struggling for lack of RAM)
Well, not only did it NOT help at all, but it crashed the system as I was opening a second performance file to test another song. Wasn\'t able to get back to the desktop (7 boot attempts) until I pulled the 2 extra RAM sticks out and left the original 256MB. Sumbitch started right up.
Does anybody have any clues? Think I\'ve tried just about every damn thing.

By the way

cc, I found the new BIOS update at Asus but have been advised by a fairly PC savvy friend not to bother updating the BIOS if it appears to be working. So far I have no real evidence that the BIOS is the problem, so why update it? (Sorry, I\'m second guessing everything since I have no idea which was is up anyway) Thoughts on that? Any second opinions?
Anyone out there with the magic secret that no one seems to want to tell me?
I\'m very http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/confused.gif and growing increasingly http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/mad.gif with every day I waste under the hood of those diabolical machines.

Gav

Robert Kral

09-06-2001, 06:23 PM

Well, here\'s something you might not want to try, but if your HD is still returnable to the manufacturer, what if you returned it and went with one of these internal Maxtors? (Using DMA 80 wire cable, access time is about 8.5 MS).

Gav

09-07-2001, 12:09 PM

Well, according to the benchmark test I\'m already getting 5-6ms performance from these SCSI drives. (10,000 RPM)

Gav

Gav

09-09-2001, 12:40 AM

I\'m am really at the end of my rope. I am frustrated beyond anything I have EVER experienced and I swear I\'m NOT exagerating!

Nemesys/Tascam will never care about my plight because they have enough \"satisfied customers\" to keep them in the red. None of the various manufacturers whos parts make up my useless machine will ever give a damn either for the same reason.

So, I have wasted $2000 of my money and I\'m not impressed.

I decided, for the time being, to just deal with the limited polyphony on the bad machine and use it anyway. Spent all day in the studio today (12:30pm - 11:00pm) and was happily creating. I was just about to pipe the whole thing into my Mac for editing as audio...I saved my performances just as a precaution and wammo...the bad machine went dead.

Gone. I managed, by way of the boot disk to get far enough into the BIOS loading to read:
\"Your program caused a divide overflow error. If the problem persists, contact your program vendor.\"
If anyone knows what the hell this is, clue me in please!

I was unable to get the machine going again which meant that the entire day\'s work is gone. Well, half of it at least - the other machine is fine.

This is ridiculous. My ****ing career is suffering now, because I can\'t get this damn machine stablized. EVERY (and I mean EEEEVERY) so called PC tech I talk to says \"I dunno\". What are they getting paid for then!!!!????

I\'m sorry to vent so profusely but I need the therapy!

I am beginning the process of saving money to get the hell out of this PC software world. It sucks. In the meantime, I expect I will keep struggling to get this stupid machine to actually work. (Hey, I paid for it, why not)

If anyone has some helpful words, please....say them!!!!

Gav

killerbobjr

09-09-2001, 10:28 AM

Hey Gav, where are you located?

killerbobjr

09-09-2001, 12:50 PM

Email me with your phone number: killerbobjr@mail.com

Gav

09-09-2001, 11:10 PM

I\'m in hell!!!

...oh, I get it...I\'m in LA.

Gav

09-13-2001, 10:19 AM

Hi I\'m back (have been moving and running around like mad):

Just to answer a few questions:
UKSimons: the latter sectors on harddrives have slower access times than the first ones. If this is the last library you copied to harddrive, maybe it is sitting on a part of the harddrive that is slow.

Also, if you have edited the gig file, it may have grown fragmented. Try defragging your drive. Good defrag programs like Norton defrag will allow you to request that the files you use the most, be moved to the start of the harddrive, improving giga\'s all important access time to these files. (PS: Anything but windows-defrag will \"break\" Gigasampler\'s copy protection, but this is not an issue with GigaStudio).

The reason for the difference in memory usage of libaries is because Endlesswave pre-caches a portion of each sample that you could possibly trigger. So the more cross-fades, velocity layers, dimensions, etc. a library may have, the more memory it will occupy when loading. This is unrelated to the actual length of samples (i.e. the total size of the library).

Gav: The matter with the BIOS is as follows: the BIOS is responsible for configuring various timing issues, etc. in your computer, setting up the interrupt controller, etc. If a computer appears to be working perfectly, it is not to say the BIOS has configured everything optimally.

Since in your case your computer is *not* working, I *would* advise you to upgrade the BIOS to the latest stable version. You can read on www.asusboards.com (\"http://www.asusboards.com\") what people have to say about a particular BIOS version, whether it is causing any problems, etc.

What your PC savvy friend says is generally true, but the general configuration recommendations do not make for optimal DAW systems.

With regards to your memory experiment - many boards can only take a certain number of DRAM \"rows\" at the same time. So your crash is not suprising. It would perhaps have been more beneficial to completely swap around the memory from both macines and then see what that does.

Anyway, with your current situation, the \"divide overflow\" points to three possible problems that I can think of, in order of probability:

- a dud install of Windows, which is actually quite possible and something I should maybe have thought of before, given that your windows installation was probably made with a dud motherboard and memory stick which has since been replaced.

- bad memory, or memory running at the wrong timing. Or alternatively FSB / PCI timing (you can also try chaning the \"Delay PCI transaction\" setting in the BIOS, or see what happens if you set the FSB to 100 instead of 133. If you are running 100 memory at 133, you will see strange things, while sometimes it will work fine.)

- a dud motherboard (maybe it has a microscopic crack). Asus usually has a good reputation for quality, but one still does get duds.

Gav

09-13-2001, 01:04 PM

Welcome back! I just moved a few weeks ago...not fun!

Where to begin. Well, with the assistance of a more PC-friendly person than I, we have determined...well, not much I guess.

For reasons I cannot begin to guess, the memory refuses to run at anything higher than 101MHz bus speed. If we pulled the processor back from 1000MHz to 750MHz, the RAM actually scaled back to 67MHz bus speed.
Hmph.
Benchmark tests show the RAM operating well under it\'s capability.
We\'re going to swap out the motherboard tonight just for the heck of it.
I have the BIOS update and a video card driver update for the Matrox G450. Probably try that too.

The list of fixes and tests and tweaks and experiments to try is just getting too long now. I don\'t know how to manage this exactly.

Regarding swapping the memory out - completely swapping the memory out from the good machine to the bad is something i tried long ago. No change.

And regarding the motherboard - I suppose it could be the motherboard. I have already sent one of the two motherboards back for being faulty and they replaced it. I called to get an RMA number to send it back for testing again and I actually ended up in an argument with the guy on the phone over the odds that it could be the motherboard again.

The thing is that this isn\'t only the \"bad\" machine anymore. The good machine is being an ******* too now. (where the hell do these machines get thier personality from!!!? MOOOOOOOODY!!!) So now, I\'m completely screwed until this gets solved. I\'m trying everything possible.
That is to say Mike is trying everything possible while I try to contribute as intelligently as I can. So at least I have a PC-knowledgeable tech around now to help. What a relief to have a person in the room that has some idea what the heck is going on most of the time!!! Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this soon...I\'m itching to get on with things!!!

I\'ll let y\'all know...

Gav

Gav

09-14-2001, 12:07 PM

Update

\"Good Machine\" back online with 160 voices! Hooray for Mike the all-knowing all-helping PC dude!
At this point it looks like the newest drivers for Matrox G450 were not agreeing with the motherboard. Scaled back to older drivers and got 160 voices. There was plenty of BIOS tweaking involved that I couldn\'t keep track of at the speed he was moving. That\'s what I know so far.

...and that my RAM sucks. It works but it sucks.

Gav

Gav

09-15-2001, 03:08 PM

BOTH MACHINES UP AND RUNNING WITH 160 VOICES!!!!!! AHHHHH, I CAN\'T BREATH, I CAN\'T BELIEVE IT!!!!!

First off, I owe a huuuuuge thanks to all of you who helped...

I had a PC tech guy, recommended to me by \"killerbobjr\", come over to my place (he happened to live in LA) and spend three evenings in my studio straightening my machines out. And I doubt I would have ever found someone to do that if it weren\'t for \"killerbobjr\" putting me in touch with the guy. Thanks kbj, you rule!

cc, thanks for sticking with it so long. Some of the things you mentioned did indeed turn out to be affecting things badly.

And everyone else who had wise words, you all rule too!

The short version: here\'s a list of things (as well as I remember it) that were mucking up the gears...

1. RAM running at wrong bus speed for some reason. Ended up installing a little application to go in and fix the bus speed and turn on 4-way interleaving. (otherwise, RAM is stuck at 2-way because the latest version of the Asus CUVX-D motherboard BIOS does not have a BIOS setting to change that)

2. The RAM itself isn\'t the best quality RAM in the world.

3. New video drivers for Matrox G450 were not getting along with the motherboard. Scaled back to older drivers.

4. View switch may or may not have been contributing to instability. For now I\'m using it to switch between video screens but have 2 keyboards/mouse. Takes up more room but for now, I\'m enjoying stability!

There were other things that I just couldn\'t comprehend though I certainly tried.

So thanks guys! I am (for now) finally out of the woods!

The story of the last few months:
http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/confused.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/shocked.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/frown.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/mad.gif .....and now..... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif.....

Gav

[This message has been edited by Gav (edited 09-15-2001).]