Giga 3.1: Crash to BSOD when saving (new error code)

[justin thyme]

Regarding the widely-discussed problem of persistent crashes to Blue-Screen-of-Death when trying to save when using Giga 3.1:

I've started this as a new thread because I think we should try to focus on solving the problem, not bashing Giga or promoting other products. (We all realize that we can choose to use a different program if we want; some of us would just prefer to try to fix our Giga problems instead, thank you.) So please, let's try to keep postings on this thread confined to asking questions and discussing problem-solving suggestions, not just griping and whining. ;) :|: Thanks in advance. :)

Since we upgraded to Giga 3.1 we, too, have been experiencing "crash-to-BSOD-when-saving" problems. The error message we kept getting when using "save as" to save a project was: "Page_fault_in_nonpaged_area" .

The only way we could avoid this crash (and only sometimes) was to save the project repeatedly, every few keystrokes or mouse-clicks, over and over and over again (for example, every single time we attached or detached an instrument or adjusted a level). The crashes were NOT occurring because we were using a huge amount of system resources -- we weren't using Gigapulse at the time, for example, and often had only 2 or 3 instruments loaded.

We realize that "save after every keystroke" is not how anyone should have to work. Of course, it is our usual practice to save frequently while working on a project -- for instance, we don't just stack and stack and stack, waiting until the very end to save -- but the effort required to keep 3.1 from crashing was obviously not what Giga's developers intended. There definitely is a problem.

So we decided to completely uninstall 3.1 and reinstall 3.04 to see if the BSOD problem persisted. Then if it would run without crashing, we planned to download 3.1 and try it again. But we never made it that far.

Here's what we did, step-by-step:

1. Burned a back-up image of the system using Symantec Ghost (important!)
2. Uninstalled Giga using the Windows uninstaller.
3. Without rebooting, ran GigaClean, then manually removed Giga icons, etc.
4. Rebooted and verified that Windows XP was properly tweaked (pretty much the same as the more important items suggested in http://www.musicxp.net/tuning_tips.php; our system arrived "pre-tweaked" from Carillon so we kept their tweaks in place).
5. Reinstalled Giga 3.04.

So far, so good. BUT, when we started Giga 3.04 and then opened Cubase, the system instantly crashed to BSOD and we got this stop code: "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL". This same crash happened without fail on two successive attempts. The stop code, just in case anyone understands them, was: "STOP: 0X000000D1 (0X027AEF95, 0X00000002, 0X000000001, 0X7C9114B6".

So we restored the system using the burned image from Ghost. We're back to Giga 3.1 and still having the original BSOD crash problem ("Page_fault_in_nonpaged_area").

Here are our system specs:


Intel D925XCV (200MHz bus clock), BIOS date 08/19/2004
3.2 GHz Pentium 4 w/ 16 KB primary, 1 MB secondary cache
2 GB memory (4 x 512 MB)

Windows XP Pro, SP2 (Build 2600), tweaked as discussed above

120GB Seagate 7200rpm Barracuda SATA drive
(partitioned C=20 GB, D=100 GB) as Drive 0, FAT 32
320 GB SATA RAID as Drive 1, NTFS
LaCie 400GB external USB-2 drive (for file storage and archive only)
NEC ND-3500AG DVD-RW

Frontier Dakota PCI audio card
Frontier Montana expansion card (for Dakota)
Frontier Sierra external MIDI/SMPTE expansion board
RME ADI-8 DS external A/D-D/A converter

2 Radeon X300 display adapters
2 Princeton VL1716(ANA) 17” monitors

Does anyone have ideas as to why the system crashed after reloading Giga 3.04? Does anyone understand what sorts of conflicts/issues would cause the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error? My initial suspicion is that it might have something to do with the Frontier Design Dakota card, but I can't go beyond there. (I verified that we were using the latest drivers for the Dakota card both before and after reloading Giga 3.04.)

Any helpful suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

Aloha,
--jt

[Ash F]

Does anyone understand what sorts of conflicts/issues would cause the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error? My initial suspicion is that it might have something to do with the Frontier Design Dakota card, but I can't go beyond there. (I verified that we were using the latest drivers for the Dakota card both before and after reloading Giga 3.04.)

'Page fault in non-paged area' typically points to defective memory or hardware. 'IRQL not less' etc. also implicates a driver trying to access memory it does not have permission for, again pointing the finger at hardware or poorly written drivers.

I would follow your hunch about the soundcard, pull it from the machine, remove all trace of the old drivers, and then either try with another card, a fresh Frontier driver install, or possibly an older version of the Frontier drivers if you have them.

(It COULD point to problems with Gigs' installation, but given that the Frontier was present in both 3.04 and 3.10 scenarios and you Giga-cleaned between, it suggests that the card is the common factor in both crashes.)

FWIW, i'm not seeing any 'save' crashes with 3.1 here.

HTH.

[Mikey Seltzer]

Dear Justin.

Not sure if this is a factor, but in my install of GIGA3.1 I got errors because my GSP's were saving to the "D" drive which in my and many others' case is a small partition of the "C" reserved for the Restore info in case I need to restore.
I had crashes because this drive (partition) was actually FULL, due to Giga install dumping a ton of Gigapulse files into it.
I uninstalled and when it wanted to load this contecnt I paid attention and hit "Browse" and put it all on my Sample drive (F), and voila! No more crashing. Check it out!

Also it seems your drives have swapped drive letters.. Why would you allocate >100Gb to the Restore and only 20Gbn to the entire (very important) program drive? I would call Carillon and ask them if the drive letters are correct!

Mahalo!

Mikey :p :p

[JonFairhurst]

Ash is right. The PAGE_FAULT thing points to RAM, the IRQL points to hardware. Your underlying cause is likely hardware, or a driver problem. Giga is a great hardware stress tester!

You might download prime95 and run it to check your RAM. The problem might also be your soundcard or video card. Make sure you have the latest BIOS and drivers for all of the above.

Another "trick" is to slow down your CPU or RAM timing a bit to see if that fixes things. You may have something that's on edge.

Best of luck solving the problem. (FYI, my Giga installation doesn't blue screen. It works great on a solid, streamlined machine.)

-JF

[Digital AudionetworX]

i am not sure if i really understand what you mean (my english).
are you saying that you first install 3.1 then you get the bsod on save, then unistall 3.1 and reinstall 3.04 and have the same bdso behavior as with 3.1????

to your question: there is mostly only 2 componets which are causing problems:
bad memory or bad driver :)
to test the memory use prime95 and run it about 15min after that you can bes ure your memory is ok if its not give it better timings and more power (voltage like 2.7v). irq less or equls is a typical driver problem caused by gigastudio drivers itself. i could be your audiocard but its probably Gigastudio and as we all know GS3.1 is not very stable just avoid it. Or yyou are saying after you went back to 3.04 and have the same problem... then i dont know, probably some drive did not get delted right after gigaclean or the like. maybe then you should do a clean install.

[justin thyme]

i am not sure if i really understand what you mean (my english).
are you saying that you first install 3.1 then you get the bsod on save, then unistall 3.1 and reinstall 3.04 and have the same bdso behavior as with 3.1????
The BSOD error after 3.1 upgrade was PAGE_FAULT_IN_NON_PAGED_AREA.
The BSOD error after going back to 3.04 was IRQL_LESS_OR_EQUAL.
Now that we restored to 3.1, we do not get PAGE_FAULT but we get IRQL_LESS_THAN errors again.


to your question: there is mostly only 2 componets which are causing problems:
bad memory or bad driver :)
to test the memory use prime95 and run it about 15min after that you can bes ure your memory is ok if its not give it better timings and more power (voltage like 2.7v). irq less or equls is a typical driver problem caused by gigastudio drivers itself. i could be your audiocard but its probably Gigastudio and as we all know GS3.1 is not very stable just avoid it. Or yyou are saying after you went back to 3.04 and have the same problem... then i dont know, probably some drive did not get delted right after gigaclean or the like. maybe then you should do a clean install.

The memory has been checked and is fine. Because hyperthreading is enabled, we ran 2 simultaneous instances of sp2004.exe (IMHO, better than prime95) to really give the processor and memory a thorough workout. These ran for 5 or 6 hours without finding any processor or memory problems.

Now we're debating what the next step should be.

Any other ideas from anyone?

Aloha,
--jt

[Digital AudionetworX]

i never heard about yyour audiointerface and i only use rme and rarely m-audio.
you say your problem is when gs is runing and you try to open cubase?

maybe your audiohardware is not fully multiclient ready or bugy with both apps?
at least you should try to assign different out for both apps.

[Digital AudionetworX]

i never heard about your audiointerface and i only use rme and rarely m-audio.
you say your problem is when gs is runing and you try to open cubase?

maybe your audiohardware is not fully multiclient ready or bugy with both apps?

try to use rewire see what hapends and then dissable the rewire option in gs and/or try to load gigastudio first and then cubase using different outs for both apps.
if this is not changing anything try to get a rme card for testing.
could you send a minidumb???

[howardv]

Justin:

I suggest looking at how you're using your audio ports and drivers. I don't have those particular cards myself but I do have a Tascam FW1884 whose drivers were written by Frontier. I had problems when pointing my daw/sequencer at the same audio out port as GS3 was using. Tascam recommended I point my sequencer at Audio 1-2 out and point GS3 at Audio 3-4 out while patching the 3-4 out to the 1-2 inputs for monitoring which indeed cured the problem. This issue caused cracking at 88.2K and 96K in one channel but never caused a crash. Might be harder to implement with your setup since it looks like you have mostly ADAT i/o and only one spidif.

The other thing I had problems with was using asio in the sequencer while running GS3. I had better luck using WDM but I use Sonar, not Cubase. And I was trying to solve my problem above which might have been the source of the asio trouble too. Whatever it was, the asio issue caused crashes similar to what you describe.

Howard

[Digital AudionetworX]

here are the drivers which probably caused the bsods
the first looks like a av related software? or is this ms too?

the second it from tascam, i asked them a couple times but never got a response could it be that it was not ecistant in gs2.5? if so i guess its gigapulse related???

the last is from your audiocard. what now comes in my mind that gigaclean maybe is not working right and you have mixed up drivers on your system.

also: when are you getting the bsod just on save???


Mini081405-01.dmp
Probably caused by : FILESPY.sys ( FILESPY+1365 )



Mini081105-01.dmp
Probably caused by : ew.sys ( ew+1d2d2 )


Mini072305-01.dmp
Probably caused by : Dakota.sys ( Dakota+11bea )

[tcovem]

I haven't gotten those errors, nor have I had that save problem... but I've had other problems, and my BSOD error is "PROCESS_HAS_LOCKED_PAGES"

Ever seen that one?

The other one I was getting is an "overclocking" error, usually on warm boot. That is, the start up self test doesn't pass and I get "overclocking failed" screen with a choice to enter the BIOS or use default settings.

Recently I backed up from the latest drivers on my WaveCenterPCI (also made by Frontier) to the original driver it came with back when... GSIF 1.7 instead of GSIF 2. SO FAR (3 work sessions) no BSODs or any other problems! So, yes, try the drivers...

[jorgen]

Hi - I'm new to this forum and heard about this most interesting thread.

I to have that crashing problem. My audiocard is RME HDSP 9632.
I get no error message - it just reboots - and wipes the .gsi file clean.

Therefore - it seems not to be audio card related - right?

All the best, Jorgen.

[Ted Vanya]

For what it worth:
Long time ago I did have the blues. At the time I converted all my samples to the GS version I was using and the blues were gone.
Never had any problem since with either of the upgrades. Just recently I got new samples from K.H. After a short while, on a brand new system, all tweaked, nothing else but GS, Cakewalk, Cooledit on new install of Windows XP, after re-creating my templet, BLUE, and wipe.
Remembering the previous problem, converted all samples to GS3.1
No blues for two weeks now (as a precaution, I save my templet not only as my default, but also as a .gsp with a different name, so if the blues show up again, at least I do not have to re-do it all).
This, of course is not a scientific advise which some of you can give, just an observation with no guaranties.
BTW, I love the KH samples and I don't wish to make it sound if these samples were the cause of the problem. I should have converted them before I used them.
Ted

[Marcussen]

Jorgen... regarding the reboot rather than BSOD.. sometimes Windows is set to simply reboot, rather than show you the BSOD.So it could be the same thats occuring

[kixnare]

I also have the RME HDSP soundcard.

I have installed 3 new, different PC's !!! All with the RME Soundcard.

Fresh install, Gigastudio 3.10

All three PCs were Pentium 4, 3.0 GHZ with at least 2 GB RAM, and separate hard-drive for samples.

I followed all the recommended tweaks, and never put the PCs on the internet.

All the PCs made the same error after 3 ca. days!!

This is totally not acceptable for a professional product. It can not be the PCs, or the soundcard, it has to be something to do with Gigastudio 3.

Sorry for bashing Tascam, but this is outrageous, and I have lost several hours of work for a movie that is supposed to be finished soon.

The .gig file also empties itself, and even the backups I do won't open.

One thing I can add to the confusion is that after the crash, I do a system test, and the diagnostics tell me that I have -1 voice of polyphony.

After I installed, I had ca. 5000 voices of polyphony on my system.

I don't think this is anything we the users can solve, this has to be a Tascam responsibility.

What do we do? Anyone know where the factory is located?

[gugliel]

kixnare, take a look at ted vanya's post, above -- i too regularly convert all gig files to 3.0 (simply by editing and saving, leaving the default conversion checked). And never have had this problem! (other problems, yes ...)

[kixnare]

They are all ver 3.1 files, I've never had 2.5

[jorgen]

New experience; after the restart Norton comes up with the expired warning. Could this have to do with Norton security?

I will now uninstall Norton completely from the sample PC (stand alone). Will be back.

[Ted Vanya]

Understanding that you never had 2.5, I am talking about the samples you have. Some of them could be still made for earlier versions of GS. Try it, it won't do any harm and it takes only a few minutes.
Ted

[Digital AudionetworX]

I will now uninstall Norton completely from the sample PC (stand alone). Will be back.


please excuse my ignorance and arrogance but norton should not be installed on any pc!!! (and i mean it like this)
i used norton on mac until 9.22 but on pc it never helped me and only gave me endless problems.

[jorgen]

POSSIBLE SOLUTION!!

knock on wood - I read through the gs 3.1 history pdf and worked on configuring my memory. It turned out the standard xp config only gave 31% usage - which is where I crashed.

Now with preset 4 I have 67% usage and so far GS3.1 is completely stabil. Perhaps I just hit the roof?

System settings / configure / run memory test, try other preset configs, reboot.

Thanks for your good suggestions,

(DAX - I am BTW a happy user of Norton security)

[Daryl]

I get around 65% which is about 1047 Mb; I doubt that you'll get much more than this.

D

[jok]

[QUOTE=Ted Vanya]"For what it worth:
Long time ago I did have the blues. At the time I converted all my samples to the GS version I was using and the blues were gone."

I had the same blue crashes on savings like a lot of you. But changing the samples to GS version 3 did the trick for me.!!!!!!
Thank you Ted Vanya !

It is very simple, but it works !

[harmony_cpp]

Hi Folk,



New to this forum, the best one I can find on Giga. Glad I am here now.



So I am new. Can anyone tell me how to "save sample to giga3 format"? are you talking about performance files? instrument files? or individual samples?(I don't think this is the case, because it will NOT be easy). I guess it is the performance files you are talking about. If so how to save to gigi3? (a box to tick may be?). This trick seems solve problem(s) here so I want to try. I have some similar problems as well.



Thanks in advance.



LJ

[jok]

Hi Folk,



New to this forum, the best one I can find on Giga. Glad I am here now.



So I am new. Can anyone tell me how to "save sample to giga3 format"?


LJ

In QuickSound were you can see your .gig files instrument list. Mouse rightclick on one instrument. In the popup window you will see a line saying "Convert Instrument to Gig 3.0". Do that at least to all gig 1 files. Gig 2 files are OK..

Jok.

[harmony_cpp]

Jok, thanks, thats great. hopefuly I don't need to downgrade to 2.5 later.

cheers.

LJ

[Allmoge]

I haven't used GS 3 (on a multipurpose machine) for some time now, but BSOD - with different error messages - has occured from time to time, also when e.g. only surfing the internet. I figured this was mainly due to the GS tweaks, which hasn't worked as good as on other machines.

A few of weeks ago I finally could upgrade my slow 56k modem internet connection to a broadband connection and I replaced the Norton software with new security software. I haven't had a single BSOD since then. The GS-tweaks are still there, but I haven't used GS yet.

Perhaps, for some users, the only(?) remedy to the problems is to uninstall as much software as possible and see if that works - or even to reinstall the OS and test the machine with GS3 only + minimal amount of other music software to see if that works. Go from simple to complex. A tough cure, but...GS3 is a wonderful software - when it works.

Cheers,

Chris

[Resident]

I get around 65% which is about 1047 Mb; I doubt that you'll get much more than this.

D

Some people are let us say: having a real hard head! :|: It is like saying i know everything, what do you know actually! Mr. Daryl yes people is Mr. knows it all! :rolleyes:


R!

[Daryl]

Some people are let us say: having a real hard head! :|: It is like saying i know everything, what do you know actually! Mr. Daryl yes people is Mr. knows it all! :rolleyes:


R!
Excuse me, who the f**k do you think you are talking to? I am stating from my experience and from other people's what the rough amount of memory use is possible, and yet again you have to butt in and troll the discussion. Just get a life....

D

[twofiveone]

Why don't you all stop being part of the problem and help find a solution. Bashing does not help. You know who you are. That having been said.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument that i have a reasonably good understanding of how windows xp works, including tweaking, memory usage, and various 'bsod' errors.

I have the same problems with G3 now as I did when I purchased it nearly a year ago. I still get the 'bsod' with an 'ew.sys' error when I attempt to do an audio capture.

I have done all of the things suggested above and on every other post regarding this subject on this forum for the past 10 months. I've used two different sound cards (both of which were supposed to be compatable according to Tascam's own website), two different motherboards, two different sets of memory. Tried using a 'clean' system, tried the tweaks for XP suggested by tascam and others. I updated ALL of my drivers and bios's, cleaned the old drivers....etc, etc.

I've contacted Microsoft tech support and they said it was a driver issue or an issue with ew.sys itself, however I've gotten absolutely no help from either Terratec, RME or Tascam regarding this issue.

Garritan is coming out with a Big Band set of horns and rhythm section compatible with Finale 2006 and the integrated Kontact player in October and unless this is resolved to my satisfaction by that time I will be happy to make the switch. Because, frankly, Tascam has done little to resolve this issue for me in the past 10 months.


Having done all of that, does anyone have any CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions.

Allen Zurcher

[thesoundsmith]

Because hyperthreading is enabled...

I could not run G3 on a similar mobo (Intel 925 chipset) because Giga complained about hyperthreading. Turn it off and see if that helps. I did not test it as the same machine does my video editing, and I want HT working...

[Gamera]

This thread is old and 3.12 is supposed to have fixed this crashing thing. Has anyone tried it or read the release notes?

- G

[Existence]

This thread is old and 3.12 is supposed to have fixed this crashing thing. Has anyone tried it or read the release notes?

- G

So far for me 3.12 has been much more stable than 3.10. First thing I did afterloading it up was to try to 'save as' on a full template. No crash, so that is a good thing...

[Alewis]

I think people may be discussing 3-4 different problems in this same thread. I believe the OP said that by increasing his available memory, his preset GSP issue was solved.

Someone else had a soundcard that caused a BSOD in 3 different PCs with Giga.

Another person had what looked like possible software incompatibilties.

For pretty much all of these more serious, BSOD-type problems I think that the best general tips would look something like this:


Back up the machine, then format the system/applications drive(s) and reinstall XP Service Pack 1 fresh. Add drivers only for hardware Giga uses. Install Giga. Add no other software. (Rewire users, add only your #1 host application.) Leave all VSTi/DXi/etc plugins, MS Office, PhotoShop, games, and everything else, including other hardware, completely off the system for now.
Do some thorough testing. You should be able to load a GIG file and play it; start with the basic GIGs that come with GS. Save your work as a GSP file. Then close and reload GSP. System should be stable.
If you have BSOD-type errors, you are probably using Rewire mode. Go back to the top of the list and this time, after reinstalling XP put on your host application first. Then install Giga and try again.
If you still have errors, try moving your sound card to a different PCI slot. If that doesn't work, try swapping your RAM around in its slots. If you have more than one RAM stick installed, try using just one or the other. (Always be sure to unplug the power cord, and wait a minute or so after you power down so that the electricity can discharge first. Then touch the case before you touch any chips, cards, mobo, etc.). Change only one thing at a time, after which you should launch Giga and try again.
USB soundcard? Delete it and *ALL* the USB interface-related devices (i.e., the motherboard hardware, and any after-market USB cards) from the Windows Control Panel: System: Hardware: Device Manager. Then shut down, disconnect USB devices (after-market USB cards should be moved to a different PCI slot). Restart PC, but leave all USB cables unplugged. Let USB interface hardware reinstall itself first; this may take several reboots. Shut down PC. Once this is done, reconnect USB cables, follow the onscreen prompts, and then reboot. Launch Giga and try again.
Try using GS 2.x instead. Gigapulse is great, but you can probably live without it.
Rewire users: sad to say, but if after all this you still cannot run a stable Giga (2.x or 3.x) on a completely stripped down setup, consider buying an extra PC as a dedicated Giga rig. Trust me, it's worth it if you can possibly afford. Good news: Giga 2.x runs great on old, well-tuned PCs.


Hope this helps -- especially after all the previous discussion!