smooth note changes (violin)

[FireRaven]

very basic question here.

say i have a violin, when i play one note then play another like this:
http://www.heroraven.com/pub/gap.JPG

how do i get a smooth flow between these notes.
control channels?

any advice....

[Poolman]

Best: use Pedal in GPO.
Next best: Lengthen the first note slightly, to overlap the second.

[rpearl]

You can also try increasing the velocity. If the volume C1 is up, then a low velocity (less attack) means the note has to crescendo very, very quickly creating a sort of inverted sucking sound. At least, I think that is the culprit. I've found if I up the velocity, the strings are much more legato.

I may be way off base, but it works for me.

Good luck,

R. Pearl

[Nickie Fønshauge]

You can add a touch of portamento (CC#19 or CC#20).

[FireRaven]

You can also try increasing the velocity. If the volume C1 is up, then a low velocity (less attack) means the note has to crescendo very, very quickly creating a sort of inverted sucking sound. At least, I think that is the culprit. I've found if I up the velocity, the strings are much more legato.

I may be way off base, but it works for me.

Good luck,

R. Pearl

so cc1 (modulation) does not effect the sample played or attack or anything.
chaning cc1 is just like turning your speakers up, meaning the vsti treats cc1 simple as a "master volume" and not as "playing the instrument softer" correct?

[rpearl]

so cc1 (modulation) does not effect the sample played or attack or anything.
chaning cc1 is just like turning your speakers up, meaning the vsti treats cc1 simple as a "master volume" and not as "playing the instrument softer" correct?

I think so, but I am coming to this knowledge in bits and pieces. I hope someone more informed can chime in with some definitive information.
Sorry I can't be of more help.

R. Pearl

[Tom Hopkins]

so cc1 (modulation) does not effect the sample played or attack or anything.
chaning cc1 is just like turning your speakers up, meaning the vsti treats cc1 simple as a "master volume" and not as "playing the instrument softer" correct?Incorrect. Master volume is controlled either by the volume knob in the player (set to default values initially for each instrument) or cc7 if that contoller is activated in the player's Options menu. Here are the most basic controllers and their functions:

Mod Wheel (cc1) = volume/timbre changes in "Expressive" instruments (sustaining woodwinds, brass, and strings.)

Velocity = attack strength in Expressive instruments or volume/timbre changes in Percussive instruments (piano, pizzicato strings, most percussion, etc.) Velocity is only active on the non-legato layer (sustain pedal up.)

Sustain Pedal (cc64) = Legato mode. Legato mode smoothes transitions between notes when the sustain pedal is depressed (cc64, value 127.) With woodwinds and brass instruments that becomes the difference between tongued and slurred notes. In the Standard version of GPO the player's pedal mode must be set to the second choice (MIDI cc) for this feature to work properly. In the Finale (Notation) version this function is controlled by cc68.

For more detailed information on these and other controllers please consult the manual, the Garritan site Tips and Techniques section http://www.garritan.com/tips_tutorials.html and various tutorials available as
"stickies" in this section of the forum. I have a flute tutorial near the top of the page that covers much of the information you need.

Because many of the controller conventions that GPO uses depart from standard MIDI usage you need to read the available material on the subject. Also, watch the interviews on Sonicstate. I cover many of the basics of GPO usage and philosophy in my part of the interview: http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2289

Tom

[Tom Hopkins]

very basic question here.

say i have a violin, when i play one note then play another like this:
http://www.heroraven.com/pub/gap.JPG

how do i get a smooth flow between these notes.
control channels?

any advice....There are two basic approaches to this in the Standard version of GPO:

1. As Poolman stated above, the sustain pedal, while in "MIDI CC" mode, is designed to smooth transitions between notes when the sustain pedal is depressed (value 127.) This can be combined with note overlaps, the use of higher values of cc21 (length control), and the micro-manipulation of mod wheel (cc1) data to achieve very smooth transitions.

2. As RPearl states above (with one clarification on pedal position) velocity controls the attack strength of notes so note overlaps combined with careful choice of velocity values can also work to smooth transitions. This only works with the sustain pedal up (value 0.) Once again, cc21 and cc1 can be applied to further refine the results.

Portamento data can also be added, as Nickie suggested, for effect, but that should be done after the desired smoothness has been achieved using the above approaches.

Also note that in the Finale (Notation) version of GPO the suggestion in #1 above should substitute cc68 for cc64 and the pedal mode remains fixed in the first choice (standard sustain.)

Tom

[rpearl]

There are two basic approaches to this in the Standard version of GPO:

1. As Poolman stated above, the sustain pedal, while in "MIDI CC" mode, is designed to smooth transitions between notes when the sustain pedal is depressed (value 127.) This can be combined with note overlaps, the use of higher values of cc21 (length control), and the micro-manipulation of mod wheel (cc1) data to achieve very smooth transitions.

2. As RPearl states above (with one clarification on pedal position) velocity controls the attack strength of notes so note overlaps combined with careful choice of velocity values can also work to smooth transitions. This only works with the sustain pedal up (value 0.) Once again, cc21 and cc1 can be applied to further refine the results.

Portamento data can also be added, as Nickie suggested, for effect, but that should be done after the desired smoothness has been achieved using the above approaches.

Also note that in the Finale (Notation) version of GPO the suggestion in #1 above should substitute cc68 for cc64 and the pedal mode remains fixed in the first choice (standard sustain.)

Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the clarification(s). I have had little success with CC21; but as I found, higher velocity for strings makes it more legato. It's kind of counterintuitive, though: one would think a gentler attack would yield a more legato line. Live and learn!

R. Pearl

[Tom Hopkins]

. . .but as I found, higher velocity for strings makes it more legato. It's kind of counterintuitive, though: one would think a gentler attack would yield a more legato line. Live and learn!

R. PearlRather depends on the particular instrument being used. Section strings use layered short bow attacks as opposed to solo strings that modify attack strength through the use of a flex envelope (no layering.) There are variations within type as well. The point is to find a velocity value that matches the attack strength to the sustain level so that conspicuous "bumps" or "dips" in amplitude detract as little as possible from the smoothness of the note-to-note transitions.

Tom

[rpearl]

Rather depends on the particular instrument being used. Section strings use layered short bow attacks as opposed to solo strings that modify attack strength through the use of a flex envelope (no layering.) There are variations within type as well. The point is to find a velocity value that matches the attack strength to the sustain level so that conspicuous "bumps" or "dips" in amplitude detract as little as possible from the smoothness of the note-to-note transitions.

Tom

Tom,

Does this explain the "sucking sound" mentioned in earlier threads? If the C1 level is high, and the velocity is low, then the string needs to make a very sudden crescendo to get to the right C1 level, correct?

Slowly, but surely...

R. Pearl

[YBaCuO]

In addition to the legato (via sustain) pedal, high velocities (90+), especially for rapid notes without legato pedal, adjustment of the release length, and note overlap (phew ...):


For melodic passages, especially for strings, I recommend the "hill theory":

The (hill theory) v-swell algorithm is quite simple: hill-like expression/modulation midi data is applied to each note (except short/fast notes, which usually do not need it). Then the peak of this hill is shifted depending on the next note (in a continuous phrase). If the pitch of the next note is higher, then the peak of this hill is shifted towards the next note (to the right) with a greater peak shift for greater interval distances. Similarly, if the pitch of the next note is lower, then the peak of this hill is shifted away from the next note (to the left). For GPO, a hill of about 0-13 (or 16) in midi CC#1 units is close to optimal.

Completely pedantic examples can be found at:
http://ybacuo.wusik.com/ (especially, the Franck, Brahms, Schubert)

I started a thread about it here (but there are too many words, all you need to know is written above ...)
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum...?t=28578&page=1

YBaCuO