Idea for (soon-to-be) JABB users

[CallMeZoot]

I just thought of an idea.

Since the JABB drums will be meticulously controlled, they probably won't conform to any particular GM standard, which means we can't use MIDI loops or loop-creation software (slicydrummer, BIAB, jammer, etc.). This is for the best, as it sounds like the JABB drums' expressive potential is far greater than any of these things could provide.

My idea was that we users could set up a forum where we could stockpile drum patterns, beats, fills, etc. in a variety of styles. That is, we compose and program these loops (with variations, etc.) and organize them by style, era, tempo, etc. for all to download freely. This way we don't have to slow down our composing to tediusly lay down a drum track (a task that would put a halt to even some great composers). We can just download a "Slow Ballad with Stirs, 4/4," or "Uptempo Stevie Wonder funky hi-hat groove in 6/8" and compose around that or alter it to our needs. Then when we've composed the piece, we can go back and tweak the drums to match our needs a bit more specifically.

Come to think of it, we could do this with the whole rhythm section. A stockpile of basslines and walking bass patterns over various chords and progressions. Guitar and Piano comping patterns in various voicings and rhythms, afro-cuban montunos, endings, etc.

Any rhythm players or composers with rhythm chops interested in contributing? I'm a mediocre player on all these instruments, but I know enough about them to program some grooves--I'll be happy to contribute.

Gary, is there a place on your website or on the forum to keep a "Rhythm Section Toolbox?"

chris.

[joaz]

Superb idea Chris, I would be happy to kick in with a few 50's-60's Philly Joe Jones/Jimmy Cobb, Drum patterns.And imagine the patterns that drummers triggering from pads,could contribute.(The name styxx springs to mind :) ).
It is actually hell on earth trying to program convincing swing drumming, so if we can help each other out a bit,we could save many laborious hours. :)
regards

[Fabio]

In Gary's site it exist the user created tips and files area. I think you will be able to obtain some kind of attention to your good idea.

[Richard N.]

Good idea chris - I had been thinking along these lines myself.

Time for all you drummers to step forward!

[Tony Monaghan]

Great idea! I spend a lot of time creating drum patterns (that I never end up using anyway), I'd be happy to contribute.

[southportJim]

Sounds like a great idea to me Chris!
;-)

[atonal]

Certainly would be useful.
However, don't discount the new Jammer Pro ver 6. It allows you to construct those particular drum ( AND bass, AND piano, and ...and.... ) riffs or loops at a micro level, without the pain of havnig to hear the same 4 bars over and over and over. Styles can be selected by any or all of the above ( ( playing )criteria within an already existing instrument library that comes with the product.

Also, new with this version 6 is the capability to 'scrape' off of midi files ANY instrument pattern, at any length, and automatically turn it into a callable library riff or loop, edit it further, blend it with other styles, etc ...

I myself would like to see a thread started that would identify web sites where one can get Big Band ( or combo ) Jazz charts in MIDI !! Something to throw against JABB when it finally surfaces.

I am not affiliated with, nor do I work for SoundTrek ( JAMMER PRO ). I have 2 children in college, and one in junior high.... so all of my extra time is already consumed by 'others needs' and 'my guilt' ...

good luck ...

-- atonal

[Richard N.]

I myself would like to see a thread started that would identify web sites where one can get Big Band ( or combo ) Jazz charts in MIDI !!

There are plenty - but copyright issues are a great problem. Just because they are available, doesn't make them legal.

I'm certainly going to do some mock-ups of existing big band arrangements, but my focus is going to be on creating new big band and jazz music.

[Garritan]

Chris,

That's a great idea to have a clearinghouse or stockpile drum patterns, beats, fills, etc. in a variety of styles.

You'll be pleased to know that there are two general MIDI drum kits (classic jazz kit and fusion kit) so that you will be able to use many available beats and patterns.

Organizing such a collection is a reat idea.

Gary Garritan

[SeanHannifin]

That is a great idea! Especially for someone like me, who knows just about nothing about drum patterns and such. Great idea, I would definitely benefit from it! :)

[Richard N.]

As stated earlier, I support this idea - but hopefully people will use such a library to learn about constructing/performing their own drum parts.

I include myself in this statement - not enough non-percussionist/drummers know enough about percussion parts and peformance.

Percussion and bass are the heart and soul of almost all jazz performances. I would hope that by having playable samples, we will all be able to improve our knowledge and understanding of how these parts work.

[SeanHannifin]

As stated earlier, I support this idea - but hopefully people will use such a library to learn about constructing/performing their own drum parts.

I include myself in this statement - not enough non-percussionist/drummers know enough about percussion parts and peformance.

Percussion and bass are the heart and soul of almost all jazz performances. I would hope that by having playable samples, we will all be able to improve our knowledge and understanding of how these parts work.
Definitely. One of the great things about Garritan products is how educational they can be. A person does not simply buy JABB, a person invests in it! http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

[southportJim]

As stated earlier, I support this idea - but hopefully people will use such a library to learn about constructing/performing their own drum parts.

I include myself in this statement - not enough non-percussionist/drummers know enough about percussion parts and peformance.


I agree...for us non-percussionists it's sometimes hard to get a drum part going. Having some good examples as a starting point would be a great help to learn how it works.
;-)

[CallMeZoot]

As stated earlier, I support this idea - but hopefully people will use such a library to learn about constructing/performing their own drum parts.

I include myself in this statement - not enough non-percussionist/drummers know enough about percussion parts and peformance.

Percussion and bass are the heart and soul of almost all jazz performances. I would hope that by having playable samples, we will all be able to improve our knowledge and understanding of how these parts work.

Yes, I agree--but some people might not even know where to start! Having beats to work with and tweak is a great starting point for learning.

Jazz composers rarely (if ever) write out every note of a drum part. They write out an approximate bar or two, hand it to a drummer, and say "mess around with that." If the drummer can read music (and some of the best drummers can't), they'll include cues to show when the band breaks, plays a rhythmic riff, etc., so the drummer can anticipate those. Very often the composer won't write any notes at all, just an instruction like "Slow bossa," "medium tempo funk," or "just listen to the band and figure something out"

The idea of writing out every note of a drum part doesn't really exist in jazz. It's a phenomenon that's pretty much unique to mockups and self-contained home-studios. So while learning how to put together a drum part is a VERY useful skill as far as understanding music and self-producing, it doesn't have a lot of real-life applications.

To a lesser extent, the same goes for bass, guitar, and sometimes piano. The best jazz scores are mostly slashes!

chris.

[CallMeZoot]

Chris,

That's a great idea to have a clearinghouse or stockpile drum patterns, beats, fills, etc. in a variety of styles.

You'll be pleased to know that there are two general MIDI drum kits (classic jazz kit and fusion kit) so that you will be able to use many available beats and patterns.

Organizing such a collection is a reat idea.

Gary Garritan

Do the GM kits have additional programming (mod, aftertouch, etc.) to super-garritanize them? One of the major selling points for me is the playable brush stirs, which is why I assumed the kits wouldn't be GM.

chris.

[Tom Hopkins]

Let me add a little more info to Gary's post: There are two GM kits, one using the classic jazz drum samples and one using the fusion drum samples. All other drum sounds (both kits and individual instruments) depart in various degrees from the General MIDI standard to give the user more choices and higher quality. Some of the unusual programming, like the playable brush stirs, required a completely custom approach. The GM kits are there as a convenience.

Tom

[CallMeZoot]

Certainly would be useful.
However, don't discount the new Jammer Pro ver 6. It allows you to construct those particular drum ( AND bass, AND piano, and ...and.... ) riffs or loops at a micro level, without the pain of havnig to hear the same 4 bars over and over and over. Styles can be selected by any or all of the above ( ( playing )criteria within an already existing instrument library that comes with the product.

Also, new with this version 6 is the capability to 'scrape' off of midi files ANY instrument pattern, at any length, and automatically turn it into a callable library riff or loop, edit it further, blend it with other styles, etc ...

I myself would like to see a thread started that would identify web sites where one can get Big Band ( or combo ) Jazz charts in MIDI !! Something to throw against JABB when it finally surfaces.

I am not affiliated with, nor do I work for SoundTrek ( JAMMER PRO ). I have 2 children in college, and one in junior high.... so all of my extra time is already consumed by 'others needs' and 'my guilt' ...

good luck ...

-- atonal

Very cool, I'll have to check out Jammer... Can you tweak the drum map to accommodate non GM kits, and add programming details that are specific to your kit (for example, whatever additional programming JABB drums will have).

This guy http://www.garyw0001.com/frames.html has a lot of big band charts in MIDI format. Some of them are really quite good. I think there's some kind of subscription fee you have to pay to get access to all of them, but there are some free ones too.

I'm not sure we could just throw a GM big band chart at JABB though--I'm sure the instruments will have so many nuances of aftertouch, keyswitching, mod control, velocity, etc. that it wouldn't work out of the box.

chris.

[Tom Hopkins]

I'm not sure we could just throw a GM big band chart at JABB though--I'm sure the instruments will have so many nuances of aftertouch, keyswitching, mod control, velocity, etc. that it wouldn't work out of the box.Absolutely right. The JABB horns each have as many as 14 extra controllers beyond the General MIDI spec. General MIDI files are likely to be less than adequate for use with JABB without considerable additional controller programming. As I've stated before, the only way to make these difficult-to-simulate instruments work more expressively than past sampled attempts was to give as much control over nuance as was technically possible given the available programming tools. Without them you would just have another sample library.

Tom

[Markleford]

Any rhythm players or composers with rhythm chops interested in contributing?I'd been planning on it since announcement.

I think I'm also going to make an attempt at a walking-bass MIDI-generator.

(We'll see how much time I have!)

- m