Garritan Jazz & Big Band [Archive] - Northern Sound Source

diffamation sonore

10-10-2005, 12:32 PM

Thanks for the welcome cptexas.

Welcome to the forum, Diffamation Sonore. :)
Probably not. But keep in mind that the price of JABB is about the same price for a single instrument of JABB's quality. It's a GREAT value! :cool:

-Chris

I know and won't dispute that it's a great value, it's just that it seems accepted practice in the software world to give rebate to returning customer and I wanted to know before I started counting my pennies. Thanks.

Ashermusic

10-10-2005, 12:44 PM

I just listened to the demos and I am disappointed as I have been really looking forward to this virtual instrument. Frankly, the saxes are not much better than what I can presently do. I think the fault lies, and this may not be a problem with the V.I. itself but the guys doing the demos, is the lack of realism in the way vibrato is used, or in these cases, mostly not used.

I hope there will be a timed demo so that we can try for ourselves because based on what I heard I would not buy it.

Nickie Fønshauge

10-10-2005, 12:55 PM

will there be an upgrade price for GPO owner?

On the Compose Forums (http://www.composeforums.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1218) Gary announced an additional $25 discount for existing customers.

benjamind

10-11-2005, 04:07 AM

I believe that a very realistic vibrato is actually a feature of the JABB. I've heard that the programming is quite complex and allows for adding breath noise and keyclicks dynamically too, and the level of the breath noise and keyclick can be changed dynamically as well. And there is also a variation that dynamically changes the pitch ever-so-slightly like you can with the bowed instruments in GPO. There are also filters, but not sure what they are.

But if the sonic morphing was added to the saxes that would be just...well, truly splendid. Imagine being able to flow from one note to the next like a knife through hot butter or doing portamento trills on a sax? It would be entirely possible if they apply this technology. But I think the legato feature is still very good, but I'd really love it if they could flow from one note to the next...as I said, like a knife through hot butter, that would really make me smile oh so wide.

I think JABB will be very good - for the price it's great, what's $259 these days?

benjamind

10-11-2005, 04:09 AM

For those who entered into the JABB competition, one person won a free copy of JABB, and the rest of those who entered (including myself) get it for half price. That's what I was told. But an extra price reduction for GPO owners is...wow, I cannot believe how generous that is?! That's truly amazing!

rbowser

10-11-2005, 02:59 PM

--!--Goes to show that, as with everything, we as individuals have expectations as unique as ourselves.

I took a listen to the Jazz demos and am immensely impressed. Sounds to me that the vibrato was very much in evidence, used tastefully, and also that the notes on the saxes were indeed "flowing like butter" as someone else seemed to say wasn't happening.

What I heard was way beyond what I already have going with trap sets, saxes, trumpets etc. Being just as impressed with these demos as I was/am with the GPO orchestral demos, I'd be a very happy camper to own the new Jazz program.

In my opinion, musicians often get hung up on sonic details which are completely non-existent to most people. I don't suggest we "dumb down" and do the least work necessary to create good music and recordings of our music--but I do suggest that we can too often get sucked into time-consuming tangents that make exactly Zero difference in the end product, and as a result, we can get our heads balled up in cynical frustration that can make us lose track of what's really important in our music.

rbowser

I just listened to the demos and I am disappointed as I have been really looking forward to this virtual instrument. Frankly, the saxes are not much better than what I can presently do. I think the fault lies, and this may not be a problem with the V.I. itself but the guys doing the demos, is the lack of realism in the way vibrato is used, or in these cases, mostly not used.

I hope there will be a timed demo so that we can try for ourselves because based on what I heard I would not buy it.

Tom Hopkins

10-11-2005, 04:47 PM

. . . based on what I heard I would not buy it.The old "you can't please all of the people all of the time" was never more true than in the sample library business. I would suggest that if you don't hear what you are looking for, definitely don't buy the product. It's a competitive business, maybe someone else will introduce a product in the future that will be closer to meeting your needs. All you need is patience and a little luck that their image and yours (of what the product should sound like) will coincide. In a business as active as this one your chances are actually pretty good if you wait long enough.

Tom

benjamind

10-12-2005, 03:37 AM

When it comes to jazz, fluidity and expression are not an optional extra, they are absolutely essential.

Without these two elements, jazz doesn't sound like jazz anymore. I believe that the saxes in JABB are adequate for jazz, but I'd like to see some very fast legato phrases and some serious trills and pitch-bend squeaks. The pitch bend on a real sax does the squeak...or is it hard biting on the reed that does this? I haven't played saxophones for 13 years now. I played one when I was 13, and I'm now 26...I used to play on a curved soprano, the one I had was beautifully lacquered in a pink gold color and was from "French Technicians" whatever that company was...not sure, and it really stood out.

Tom Hopkins

10-12-2005, 04:29 AM

. . . but I'd like to see some very fast legato phrases . .If you are referring to actual recorded phrases - that idea runs counter to our philosophy of having the user play (or notate) each individual note, as with a real instrument. Recorded phrases will never happen in JABB, not as long as I'm here anyway.

Tom

Markleford

10-12-2005, 06:57 AM

If you are referring to actual recorded phrases - that idea runs counter to our philosophy of having the user play (or notate) each individual note, as with a real instrument. Recorded phrases will never happen in JABB, not as long as I'm here anyway.Amen to that! :)

Though I imagine he just means "as a focus for demo purposes: some legato runs up and down." ;)

( Man, still tender about phrase accusations, eh? :D )

- m

thesoundsmith

10-12-2005, 02:39 PM

It does not appear to me that JABB is focusing on the solo aspects as much as the big band section stuff - which is what I would expect, and even prefer. The Garritan Jazz Soloist library would be a very different animal, IMHO.

Big band section work can be segmented into reproducible articulations (though it seems to be a LOT of work even for this) but soloist phrasing is truly unique, and would be a lot harder to pull off.

Collin

10-12-2005, 11:28 PM

I'm a Tenor sax player, and I think the sax demos sound damn good. I can't wait try some arrangements featuring me on solos. Perhaps a few other key guys. I think about hearing what I mean. Its not always possible to get someone that can even play the parts right with no budget. However if people can hear your stuff first, it could make all the difference when your trying to create interest. I think these sounds could be used as is when there is no budget for a whole band. (low budget films?, who knows)

Collin

10-13-2005, 08:10 AM

[QUOTE=benjamind]When it comes to jazz, fluidity and expression are not an optional extra, they are absolutely essential.

I think fluidity and expression are essential in all music not just jazz. Synths were not originally expressive in the same sense as a traditional instrument. This is in part what gave synths a bad rap with many traditional jazzers.
Gary Garritan has made giant steps in making an interface that is playable and natural to composers

The pitch bend on a real sax does the squeak...

Bad reeds cause squeaks.. unless your talking about altissmo notes which are a fudging of the harmonic series

tradivoro

10-13-2005, 08:27 AM

I think that the thing that people need to keep in mind is that no matter what sample library, like an instrument, it's not the instrument, it's the person playing it.... I am certain that results across the board with the jazz library will vary greatly, with some people achieving great realism, and others with a sound that can be improved... Cause no matter how good a composer a person might be, there's also the case of using articulations, controllers and good mixing and production skills which are going to elevate a recording of a composition to a level where people will say "wow!" or people will say "that's nice"...

Another area where people err greatly is isolating one sound and comparing it to a real instrument in the real world, and saying how that doesn't really sound like the particular instrument... In using any set of samples, it's how they work together that counts, not how one sample sounds great by themselves... I think that the jazz library has achieved that balance of sounding great when taken as a whole, and used correctly, and a solo instrument is played against the other instruments, it will sound great consistently...

Markleford

10-13-2005, 08:42 AM

The pitch bend on a real sax does the squeak...I think the physics of it is such that embouchure pressure on the reed is what allows modulation of pitch, but if the gap between the reed and the mouthpiece is closed too much (or too quickly), then the resulting air pressure will close the rest of the gap at least partially, prohibiting wider oscillation of the reed, causing it to jump to the next harmonic and potentially closing the aperture completely to silence the resulting squeak quickly.

Or something like that! ;) Not sure if we get squeaks and multiphonics with JABB. But speaking of sax-physics...

To me, the biggest point of expression that sax libraries typically lack is the ability to change octaves with only embouchure change, which is like a harmonic cross-fade. It's not an off/on quality. The tricky part is that this "in-between" state is maintained throughout legato playing.(novice example mp3) (http://www.markleford.com/music/parts/markleford-saxdub-solo-85bpm.mp3) This is an issue that harmonic alignment technology will likely resolve in the future! :)

And I agree with Collin: JABB will likely be a great library to mix with live solo tracks, at the very least to get interest and budget!

- m

Collin

10-13-2005, 10:00 AM

The sax uses an octave key in sted of embouchure adjustment. The trick to playing across octaves quickly is minimal movement of the lips letting the octave key make the harmonic jump. Sax only uses the first harmonic for its traditional notes. Altissimo notes (squeaks?) are made with lip pressure combined with odd fingerings and magic, unlike trumpet which uses basicly just lip pressure to play high notes IMHO

Richard N.

10-13-2005, 10:15 AM

unlike trumpet which uses basicly just lip pressure to play high notes IMHO

Pitch is controlled on brass instruments by lip vibrations, and airflow - not lip pressure.

I know are a million photos out there of red-faced high note strainers, but lip pressure does not create high notes.

The embouchere is akin to the neck of a balloon being allowed to deflate and create a noise - you can change the pitch of the noise in a couple of ways but jamming it up against a wall to create pressure is not one of them! :D

Markleford

10-13-2005, 10:27 AM

The sax uses an octave key in sted of embouchure adjustment.Or rather, the octave key *should* be used instead of embouchure adjustment. ;)

I personally like to shift via embouchure when effect and expression are at issue: just another color to use in the painting.

- m

Richard N.

10-13-2005, 10:33 AM

I recall reading some time (years) ago that a sax overblew at something like a 12th, not an octave - or am I thinking of clarinet - or am totally getting myself confused?

Godfrey

10-13-2005, 12:42 PM

I recall reading some time (years) ago that a sax overblew at something like a 12th, not an octave - or am I thinking of clarinet - or am totally getting myself confused?
Right the second time; it's the clarinet which overblows at the 12th.

Christopher Duncan

10-13-2005, 01:18 PM

Pitch is controlled on brass instruments by lip vibrations, and airflow - not lip pressure.

I know are a million photos out there of red-faced high note strainers, but lip pressure does not create high notes.

The embouchere is akin to the neck of a balloon being allowed to deflate and create a noise - you can change the pitch of the noise in a couple of ways but jamming it up against a wall to create pressure is not one of them! http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
And if you're doing it as you play in a marching band and happen to hit a pot hole, it really hurts! http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

Godfrey

10-13-2005, 01:22 PM

And if you're doing it as you play in a marching band and happen to hit a pot hole, it really hurts! http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
You played balloon in a marching band? :D

dynamix

10-13-2005, 02:52 PM

If a woopee cushion is considered a ballon, then I've played one of those!

Not in marching band.

Choir rehearsal...

OK, well, maybe not rehearsal.

thesoundsmith

10-13-2005, 03:21 PM

If a woopee cushion is considered a ballon, then I've played one of those!
But when are you going to sample it for us? It would make a great add-on to the Armpit and Fart library Styxx produced... :cool:

GDG

10-13-2005, 06:38 PM

But when are you going to sample it for us? It would make a great add-on to the Armpit and Fart library Styxx produced... :cool:

Is this going in the GRSO (Garritan Rude Sounds Orchestra)? Or would that be the Styx RSO?
I can sample a few blades of grass... :rolleyes:

Grant

thesoundsmith

10-14-2005, 01:57 AM

Is this going in the GRSO (Garritan Rude Sounds Orchestra)? Or would that be the Styx RSO?
I can sample a few blades of grass... :rolleyes:

Grant Sorry, I misspoke myself. What I was thinking of was: Jared Hudson's Sounds of the Tailwind... (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27295&highlight=fart), one of the most expressive libraries ever, well expressed! :D

And Styxx, I apologize if anything offensive arose fromthis discussion...

Christopher Duncan

10-14-2005, 08:51 AM

You played balloon in a marching band? :D1st Balloon, if you please... :D

Styxx

10-14-2005, 10:02 AM

Sorry, I misspoke myself. What I was thinking of was: Jared Hudson's Sounds of the Tailwind... (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27295&highlight=fart), one of the most expressive libraries ever, well expressed! :D

And Styxx, I apologize if anything offensive arose fromthis discussion... Yeah well you’d rather tangle with a herd of elephants than mess with me! You’d rather wrestle a whole pool of alligators than wrestle with me. You’d ... you’d rather ... you’d ... ah, heck never mind! :D

No offense taken. I found it most entertaining! ;)

Rich Pell

10-14-2005, 10:37 AM

Hi..1st post in this Forum...Does anyone know when JABB is shipping? I preordered 6 weeks ago and havent recieved my copy yet..

Best ,Rich

Markleford

10-14-2005, 10:51 AM

Hi..1st post in this Forum...Does anyone know when JABB is shipping? I preordered 6 weeks ago and havent recieved my copy yet...Last I heard, the programming had been finalized and sent to manufacturing. (Or at least was just about to be sent: don't know if there was a last minute addition or not!)

- m

thesoundsmith

10-14-2005, 11:50 AM

Yeah well you’d rather tangle with a herd of elephants than mess with me! You’d rather wrestle a whole pool of alligators than wrestle with me. You’d ... you’d rather ... you’d ... ah, eh never mind! :D

No offense taken. I found it most entertaining! ;)I tried alligator wrestling - way too easy. But then they were already made into handbags...

dynamix

10-14-2005, 12:32 PM

I tried alligator wrestling - way too easy. But then they were already made into handbags...

YOU WERE A PURSE SNATCHER??? :eek: :D

Godfrey

10-14-2005, 01:50 PM

Last I heard, the programming had been finalized and sent to manufacturing. (Or at least was just about to be sent: don't know if there was a last minute addition or not!)
Man, I hope not... I'm checking my bank account several times a day to see if it's been charged.

Well, unless it was banjo. I'd support another delay for a good Dixieland banjo.