Bela D 'Voices of the Young' vs. Symphony of Voices

[imagegod]

I know they're not directly comprable...I know one's a focused library and the other a more comprehensive library...but I was hoping someone could help me decide by throwing out any opinions/thoughts you had, even if you don't directly compare the two.

thanks in advance! http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[EricWatkins]

I only have SOV. I have to say that I absolutely love it. However, after hearing Giovanni demos I know that I must have it also. So goes the curse of gear lust. Seriously though, I love SOV and it does cover more ground than Giovanni as far as types of singers but Giovanni sounds way more present to me and like a newer production. Dont get me wrong, Sov's quality is outstanding but Giovanni sounds like a newer production to me. Perhaps a bit more crisp. Also, I think that Giovanni has a word building utility. SOV only has certain phrases. Hate to ride the fence like this but if you can, get both. I doubt that they cross paths too terribly much. THe boys choirs on SOV sound great for the Oohs Ahs, etc etc. But I'm sure Giovanni trumps that portion. Hope this helps. There is also EWQL Symphnoic choirs but I cant say as I've heard anything but complaints about getting good results from it. There are a bunch of demos at www..com (http://www..com). Best of luck. If you have any specific questions about SOV feel free to PM or email me.


Eric

[dpasdernick]

There is also EWQL Symphnoic choirs but I cant say as I've heard anything but complaints about getting good results from it. There are a bunch of demos at www..com (http://www..com). Best of luck. If you have any specific questions about SOV feel free to PM or email me.


Eric

There's one guy out there that has mastered EWSC. Check out this composition.
http://www..com/cd_mp3_demos/228051.mp3

Nothing, choir wise (or compositionally for that matter), come close to this masterpiece.

Darren

[StrangeCat]

I really like Giovani, once you get a hang of the vocal control you have an amazing expressive childrens chior.
I have heard the infamous demo by Thomas J, I wouldn't call it a masterpiece but it's a good mix like all his mixes and certianly shows off what EWQL Chiro can do when you know what your doing.
I think it depends on what you really want and what your going to use your chior for. There are a lot of Giovani demos that show off just how great Giovani is, it's a great Chior Lib to own, the price is right too. :D

[musical.matthew]

I have both SoV and Giovani. They are both very excellent, but really quite different. How do you plan to use the library you decide on? Figuring that out should really help make it clear which one is the best fit for you...

Matthew

[TARI]

Giovani is a must for every composer. GIO is with DIVA the most expressive vocal library I know. The Vocal Control of GIO is amazing and don't forget legato... is really awesome!!! IMO Bela D have become the king of vocal samples without doubt.
Just waiting for the solo boys... :)

[StrangeCat]

I totally Agree Tari^_-
I just ordered the DIVA Bundle, though I won't have time to use it music right away I know its just going to kick ***!! and I won't be able to help myself LOL!!!
I look forward to any vocal Lib Bel D Puts out, I bet the future looks good for vocal libs :D

[TARI]

I totally Agree Tari^_-
I just ordered the DIVA Bundle, though I won't have time to use it music right away I know its just going to kick ***!! and I won't be able to help myself LOL!!!
I look forward to any vocal Lib Bel D Puts out, I bet the future looks good for vocal libs :D

Yes, StrangeCat!! I hope that future will be full of voices like GIO and DIVA!!! But no problem, it seems that Bela D guys work 24 h a day, they always have a new project in the near future...

[musical.matthew]

I have to agree with the prior posts that the Bela D stuff is very nice. They are working on more choir libraries also - they will expand into a full adult choir library at some point. This is likely to also come with Vocal Control which is super cool and powerful. If you're looking for a modern library but need adult choirs rather than children, you may want to wait if you can. If you can't wait and you need an adult choir then SoV is probably the best bet for now...

Matthew

[imagegod]

Thanks so much for all your replies! http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif I do classical stuff (GPO/Overture4) and the addition of the human voice will be greatly appreciated and will make a huge difference in my music.

I knew from the get-go I'd have to get both libraries...eventually...they're so well liked and well reviewed and they offer so much...I just needed help deciding which one came first.

It will probably be SOV, but I may change at the last moment...http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

Thanks again!

[loogoo]

Reading this thread has kindled my interest in SOV, but I'd like to know if it imports well into Kontakt 2. I'd appreciate any info from someone who may be using it this way. Thanks. :)

[Cataclysm]

Reading this thread has kindled my interest in SOV, but I'd like to know if it imports well into Kontakt 2. I'd appreciate any info from someone who may be using it this way. Thanks. :)

Heh, funny, I'd like to know the same. http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[musical.matthew]

Reading this thread has kindled my interest in SOV, but I'd like to know if it imports well into Kontakt 2. I'd appreciate any info from someone who may be using it this way. Thanks. :)

I don't know if it will import directly. I imported it into EXS and from there it will open fine in Kontakt 2. I had so much trouble importing my other Akai libraries into Kontakt 2 that I didn't even try. I think Akai import is pretty much broken despite what NI says. Support is also pretty much non-existent. They just tell you to be sure you're on the latest version (which of course I am). I followed all the procedures for their "third party sample import support" and didn't hear a word back...

Matthew

[imagegod]

I don't know if it will import directly. I imported it into EXS and from there it will open fine in Kontakt 2. I had so much trouble importing my other Akai libraries into Kontakt 2 that I didn't even try. I think Akai import is pretty much broken despite what NI says. Support is also pretty much non-existent. They just tell you to be sure you're on the latest version (which of course I am). I followed all the procedures for their "third party sample import support" and didn't hear a word back...

Matthew
I guess that's a very strong vote for Bela (with its dedicated Kontakt 2 library). Any other thoughts?

Thanks!

[spectrum]

You can also use CD-Xtract or Translator for very good conversions of SOV to Kontakt.

The built-in Akai conversion is working fine for many users of SOV and Kontakt as well. I wouldn't worry about that aspect.

spectrum

[imagegod]

You can also use CD-Xtract or Translator for very good conversions of SOV to Kontakt.

The built-in Akai conversion is working fine for many users of SOV and Kontakt as well. I wouldn't worry about that aspect.

spectrum
Coolness! http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif Actually, that thought did occur to me. And like I said...it's a coin toss between the two...and eventually I'll be buying the whole coin! http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Looks like I'm back to SOV first!

Grazi...

[musical.matthew]

They're both really top notch libraries. I have no problems using SoV in Kontakt so I wouldn't let that deter you - there's a minor hassle in getting it imported, but it's really not a big deal. I would definitely recommend picking them both up eventually. Start with the one you think is most immediately useful to you and pick up the other when you've got some extra cash...

Matthew

[Bela D Media]

Thank you all for the kind words.

I'll stay out of the debate/topic but I am available to answer any questions that you may have about Giovani.

[maiki]

There is also EWQL Symphnoic choirs but I cant say as I've heard anything but complaints about getting good results from it.

The demos of it sure sound great. Listen to the Kyrie of the boys choir. It sounds like a real excellent boys choir singing.

Major drawback--PRICE!!! About $1,000!!!!!

I think companies make a mistake with these high prices. I know it must have cost a lot to create the products, and understandably they wish to make a return on their investment. But--I think they would make more if they charged less--as MANY more people would buy their product. How many people are going to spend $1,000 for a choir sample library? My guess is very few. If, on the other hand, the price was $100, I would guess that much more people would buy it (perhaps many reading here), probably way over ten times as many, therefore--lower prices=higher profit.

[Hermitage59]

I'm currently on the move, studying in Moscow Russia. So its a laptop and piles of parchment for the time being. However when i get home (UK), I'll be purchasing a good choir sample library, and after listening intently and repeatedly to many demos and pieces, its my humble opinion the Bela D library has that 'extra 10%' that makes me want to listen more and buy the product. I think the difference is, the boys choir from Bela D is constructed from a choir POV, as if the composer is focused on the choir and not the means of input. SOV for me sounds like the recording mentality is one of playing with a keyboard, and thats the intent from the beginning. It may be the majority means of input, but with that mentality the sound and output will always be compromised from the beginning. Bela D however sounds so real, and so unkeyboard like, it steps ahead of the pack. I like the mentality of the developers that puts the sounds, nuance, phrasing, and articulation in the hands of the composer, and not preprogrammes it, with the resulting limitation.
SOV is a fine attempt at giving us, the users, the opportunity to add a choir to our sample library, but for me the distinction that puts Bela D ahead of this and other choir libraries is a clear one. Not every work requiring choir, means everyone singing at the same time on endless block harmonies, and although this seems to represent the bulk of film music these days, some of us don't write for film, and want a higher standard symphonic representation of a choir in varying shades, from one voice to many, and with the chance of creating a fluid nuance through the work, instead of the block harmony route, with its resulting keyboard, synthetic sound.
I too, am waiting for full male/female/mixed choirs from Bela D as their recording philosophy of 'non keyboard performance' excellence has me interested in their products.

I've been firmly objective in this, as i'm not bound to any company by purchasing loyalty. I buy based on excellence, not previous purchase, or 'patriotic fervour', and the size and polularity of any company big or small makes no difference. So this critique is based entirely on my opinion of the standard of excellence attained.

Regards,

Alex.

[Hermitage59]

As a follow on to the previous reply i posted i ask the team at Bela D to consider the following as i think their approach has the potential to go further than just mainstream.

If you sample solo voices, soprano for example, the distinction between an italian soprano versus a wagnerian or germanic soprano is obvious. The fine treble dominant sound of an italian soprano is suitable for specific symphonic work, contrasting with the 'thicker midrange' of a germanic soprano. Having these differerences would give added scope to sample based performance by the computer composer.
And the differences between a male italian tenor, with his sharp, bright, vibrato would contrast well with the solid, again thick midrange, sound of a germanic tenor or baritone. And as i've discovered here in Russia, the wistful, almost melancholic sound of russian male tenors and baritones is different to the others. Perhaps a package contaning the inflections of each is a good idea?

And ensemble singers are the same. a fine Italian choir (and there are many) has that sharp passionate sound (Verdi's requiem) in contrast to a germanic choir (Beethoven's 9th, Wagner) with it's 'solid mid and lower range'. And a russian choir sounds like no other with the inflections gained from speaking a fluid, mixed European/Central Asian language.

just some thoughts, and my compliments to the team at Bela D for their pursuit of excellence from a performance perspective, and with less emphasis on a keyboard input requirement.

Regards,

Alex.

[dubaifox]

You can also use CD-Xtract or Translator for very good conversions of SOV to Kontakt.

I did this very thin and it load into Kontakt2 very well. I only noticed some anomolies when playing notes for longer than about 4 seconds. The loop points become very audible on some samples. Not too big of a problem, just retrigger the sample and it works fine.

Cd Extract is a "must have" if you are converting libraries into Kontakt2 IMO.

[jc5]

As a follow on to the previous reply i posted i ask the team at Bela D to consider the following as i think their approach has the potential to go further than just mainstream.

If you sample solo voices, soprano for example, the distinction between an italian soprano versus a wagnerian or germanic soprano is obvious. The fine treble dominant sound of an italian soprano is suitable for specific symphonic work, contrasting with the 'thicker midrange' of a germanic soprano. Having these differerences would give added scope to sample based performance by the computer composer.
And the differences between a male italian tenor, with his sharp, bright, vibrato would contrast well with the solid, again thick midrange, sound of a germanic tenor or baritone. And as i've discovered here in Russia, the wistful, almost melancholic sound of russian male tenors and baritones is different to the others. Perhaps a package contaning the inflections of each is a good idea?

And ensemble singers are the same. a fine Italian choir (and there are many) has that sharp passionate sound (Verdi's requiem) in contrast to a germanic choir (Beethoven's 9th, Wagner) with it's 'solid mid and lower range'. And a russian choir sounds like no other with the inflections gained from speaking a fluid, mixed European/Central Asian language.

just some thoughts, and my compliments to the team at Bela D for their pursuit of excellence from a performance perspective, and with less emphasis on a keyboard input requirement.

Regards,

Alex.

*sigh* it may be a good long while before we see these kind of detailed choral (and solo) libraries, that are also solidly playable, and fully capable of singing text... :o

But this is definetly what is desired and needed! Let the complaining begin. ;)

[RedLeicester]

If you sample solo voices, soprano for example, the distinction between an italian soprano versus a wagnerian or germanic soprano is obvious. The fine treble dominant sound of an italian soprano is suitable for specific symphonic work, contrasting with the 'thicker midrange' of a germanic soprano. Having these differerences would give added scope to sample based performance by the computer composer.
And the differences between a male italian tenor, with his sharp, bright, vibrato would contrast well with the solid, again thick midrange, sound of a germanic tenor or baritone. And as i've discovered here in Russia, the wistful, almost melancholic sound of russian male tenors and baritones is different to the others. Perhaps a package contaning the inflections of each is a good idea?

And ensemble singers are the same. a fine Italian choir (and there are many) has that sharp passionate sound (Verdi's requiem) in contrast to a germanic choir (Beethoven's 9th, Wagner) with it's 'solid mid and lower range'. And a russian choir sounds like no other with the inflections gained from speaking a fluid, mixed European/Central Asian language.




Don't forget the Welsh too! ;)

[Bela D Media]

Any choir sampled by Bela D Media is/will be American. DIVA, Giovani, Giovani Solo and Voci are all American voices. We don't have the resources to travel all over the globe to sample. Most of the talent used is from the Philadelphia Choral Society and/or Opera.

Thank you again for the kind words.

[chickensys]

(Not meaning to intrude on this thread, but)

"I think Akai import is pretty much broken despite what NI says. Support is also pretty much non-existent. They just tell you to be sure you're on the latest version (which of course I am). I followed all the procedures for their "third party sample import support" and didn't hear a word back..."

That is not representative of what happened. Matthew reported some Mac MESA files - which are NOT regular Akai things - sent some stuff in, and we have fixed it. The new version just isn't out yet. Kontakt 2 Akai import isn't broken, that's silly.

I will say thatthe NI issue reporting system could be better, but Matthew knows it's me that works on it, and he simply could have asked via email to me.

Kontakt 2's Universal Import works very well, it can be depended on for great results.

[tgfoo]

I don't have either library, but both are on my buy list (now if only I had some extra cash...)

Quick question for Bela D, how's the Mac version of the VCU coming along? I remember you were asking for beta testers several weeks ago and I was just wondering if it'll be ready soon.

[exponent]

Quick question for Bela D, how's the Mac version of the VCU coming along? I remember you were asking for beta testers several weeks ago and I was just wondering if it'll be ready soon

We're just tidying up a few loose ends, nothing that is critical, mainly graphics issues. Should be ready *very* soon :)

Thanks
Paul

[musical.matthew]

That is not representative of what happened. Matthew reported some Mac MESA files - which are NOT regular Akai things - sent some stuff in, and we have fixed it. The new version just isn't out yet. Kontakt 2 Akai import isn't broken, that's silly.

I will say thatthe NI issue reporting system could be better, but Matthew knows it's me that works on it, and he simply could have asked via email to me.


I apologize if I misrepresented things. I had a very frustrating experience and things are still not working for me. I don't recall discussing this with you, but I'll take your word for it that I did. I do admit that my memory of this is a bit foggy (now I'm sounding like a politician!)...

To be honest, my frustration with the NI support I was receiving was so poor that when I didn't have a fix after going through all the trouble I did to submit a request, I just gave up trying. I had tried many different AKAI libraries at that point and none were working for me. I was just trying to inform someone who was asking of my experience. I hope others do have a better experience with this than I did.

I was also not aware that the issues have been fixed and the updated only needs to be released. It's great news if the problems have been taken care of and a fix will be available soon. I'm glad to know this now.

Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. It wasn't my intent.

Best Regards,
Matthew

[ArsNova]

Hey Matthew. How are you trying to import the libraries?


When I first started I had all sorts of trouble, then I figured it out and have had no trouble since.

Ars

[dpc]

The Thomas J. demo is outstanding in every way I have to agree. Very well written, handled and executed. Certainly a type of midi masterpiece if such a categorie exists and a wonderful piece of music by any measure.

My nickel's worth

[tgfoo]

We're just tidying up a few loose ends, nothing that is critical, mainly graphics issues. Should be ready *very* soon :)

Thanks
Paul


Good to know :D