HELP! Memory Recognition Problem

[composer22]

Ok, so I can\'t figure this out.

Win98SE...cache settings are set optimally

INTEL 850 GB Mobo
I have 4 sticks of 256 800 RAMBUS Corsair
I just replaced 2 sticks with 512 800 RAMBUS Corsair

Check out BIOS (up todate) and it is recognized.

When I boot windows it says no enuf memory to load windows and i should remove stuff from cnfig sys and auto exec...and remove any TSR...well I dont have anything running and no config autoexec\'s!

I installed in pairs

I tried flipping the pairs around so i have 2x256 in bank 0 and 2x512 in bank 1 - paired ala spec...

Nada

I reinstalled the two sticks of 256 back to 1gb and it works fine

Is there something I am missing from windoze in teh reg or system.ini so it can be regonized?

[Mark_Knecht]

composer22,
I think this is a known problem for Win 9X.

From M$:
http://support.microsoft.com/search/preview.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q253912 (\"http://support.microsoft.com/search/preview.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q253912\")

It sounds similar anyway.

That said, I run 768MB on Win ME, which should fail according to this, but it\'s fine.

Good luck,
Mark

[This message has been edited by Mark_Knecht (edited 04-10-2002).]

[composer22]

Nope this isnt it


[vcache]
MaxFileCache=16384
MinFileCache=16384

perfect

I think it is related to this: http://support.microsoft.com/search/preview.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q184447 (\"http://support.microsoft.com/search/preview.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q184447\")

and
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q181862 (\"http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q181862\")
* * *
Well, this appears to be the problem. I have been duped. Original Win98SE spec says I can read up to 2GB - its a F*** lie.

Backup plan - will XP do it for me folks? is it worth moving here for Giga?


[This message has been edited by composer22 (edited 04-11-2002).]

[Mark UK]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by composer22:
Nope this isnt it


[vcache]
MaxFileCache=16384
MinFileCache=16384

perfect

I think it is related to this: http://support.microsoft.com/search/preview.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q184447 (\"http://support.microsoft.com/search/preview.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q184447\")

and
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q181862 (\"http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q181862\")
* * *
Well, this appears to be the problem. I have been duped. Original Win98SE spec says I can read up to 2GB - its a F*** lie.

Backup plan - will XP do it for me folks? is it worth moving here for Giga?


[This message has been edited by composer22 (edited 04-11-2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hi Composer

I have recently had problems with upgrading my system and using Win98SE.

After almost a week of hair-pulling, I decided to take the plunge and upgraded to WindowsXP. I have only had it a couple of days and from what I can see so far, I am really pleased.

I would say, GO FOR IT!

[Mark_Knecht]

Hi,
Well, which ever of these M$ support pages is right, it\'s pretty clear that 98SE has some real problems with what we\'d call larger memory footprints.

I haven\'t personally used 1.5GB under XP, so I can\'t promise anything, but my guess is that you\'ll be better off.

XP is a bit slower than 98SE, but you appear to be running a reasonably fast P4, so I would guess you\'re not going to be disappointed.

Regards,
Mark

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by composer22:
Nope this isnt it


[vcache]
MaxFileCache=16384
MinFileCache=16384

perfect

I think it is related to this: http://support.microsoft.com/search/preview.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q184447 (\"http://support.microsoft.com/search/preview.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q184447\")

and
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q181862 (\"http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q181862\")
* * *
Well, this appears to be the problem. I have been duped. Original Win98SE spec says I can read up to 2GB - its a F*** lie.

Backup plan - will XP do it for me folks? is it worth moving here for Giga?


[This message has been edited by composer22 (edited 04-11-2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[composer22]

Yes, but my main concern is what is it gonna do to my lubly GigaRig setup when I move there...And all the drivers that I have carefully installed for MIDI and Audio.

Can I get by with the home xp version, or do I need PRO?

It also kills off 128 mb of memory?

[Haydn]

I have been using Win XP Pro for the past few months now. I have not had any more problems with GigaStudio in XP than Win 98. Only problem is that GigaStudio takes longer to load and some of the samples take longer to load. When crashes do occur I can kill GigaStudio in Task Manager and then reload Giga without having to reboot. I am running a couple beta versions of a few drivers and actually expected more problems.

I have been able to load all performances that I used in Win 98 without problems. Most seem to take up the same amount of memory. I run my system clean with only music apps installed and unnessary devices disabled like my NIC, USB, etc. The performance settings under the Advanced tab in the System Properties is set for \"Adjust for Best Performance\". This makes the system run much faster and gets rid of the \'eye candy\' which also uses up more memory.

BTW, internet performance when I activate my NIC card is much better in XP than 98. We run systems in my lab at work with 2 GB of memory with no problems and no tweaks necessary to use the memory.

[This message has been edited by Haydn (edited 04-11-2002).]

[Doc]

One other problem to consider is that many motherboards out there have problems when you use multiple sticks of memory. Moving sticks to different slots helps as certain combinations work where other combinations produce memory error using the exact same memory sticks. As this seems to be a universal problem check with a forum that deals with your specific motherboard or motherboard maker to see what is posted for working combinations to use. You may also consider going with fewer memory sticks with a larger capacity. Lastly you may just have a bad stick of memory or are using too aggresive a memory timing in the Bios. Looks like you have to get your hands dirty on this one by doing some research, then test - test- test. Good luck with the \"adventure\".

[composer22]

Haydn; Thanks for the feedback

Doc: Im using an INTEL 850 GB + P4 with latest Cert BIOS. I have bank flipped stuff around. The memory is good. Win98SE has a 1 gig ceiling.

Im moving to XP this weekend...probably. And i dont have a DSL connection...only a modem...wish me luck

[Doc]

XP has its own share of problems too, you may consider 2000 instead. Users of XP are reporting use of more system resources than running the same thing in 98 or 2000, and SCSI hard drive users have a big bug with XP slowing them down (check out the forums at storagereview.com for that). One of these years this stuff will all play nice together lol.

[composer22]

You said it doc:

I just moved to XP and cut down services and I am eating around 200 mb just for the OS. There goes most of my memory upgrade.

I also have cacheman running now. I am not sure how to optimize further...I\'ve looked at various pages and TASCAM suggestions on how to optimize but its still around 200 meg worth

Any ideas? I would like to keep networking around =(

And here is what is running now:

Alerter
COM+ Event System
Cryptographic Services
Error Reporting Service
Event Log Started
Help and Support
Logical Disk Manager
Network Connections
Network Location Awareness (NLA)
Plug and Play
Protected Storage
Remote Access Auto Connection Manager
Remote Access Connection Manager
Remote Procedure Call (RPC)
Secondary Logon
Security Accounts Manager
Server Started
Shell Hardware Detection
SSDP Discovery Service
System Event Notification
Telephony
Terminal Services
Themes
Upload Manager
Windows Audio
Windows Management Instrumentation
Wireless Zero Configuration
Workstation

[This message has been edited by composer22 (edited 04-13-2002).]

[This message has been edited by composer22 (edited 04-13-2002).]

[Haydn]

Composer22,

You must have something wrong with your XP install. Just checked mine and it is using 62 MB with just the OS running. This is my on my music computer with everything setup per my previous post. Again, my work computer was using 137 MB running a bunch of apps.

Did you do an upgrade or a clean install of XP? I recommend always doing a clean install. XP should not need Cacheman to free up more memory. Check out the threads on the Tascam forum regarding this.

Tascam recommends running XP as the preferred OS. 2000 has a 10 MIDI device limit and also has some memory caching issues which the Cacheman program will help.

BTW, I\'m running the default services and have not disabled any and still I\'m only using 62 MB!

[composer22]

No, I did a clean install and formatted the drive. I still don\'t quite understand what is going on here? where else should I be looking?

Im down to this now:

COM+ Event System
Event Log
Plug and Play
Remote Procedure Call (RPC)
Server
Windows Audio
Windows Management Instrumentation
Workstation

Task manager is reporting:

System Idle process 20k
System 152k
SMSS.exe 236k
WINLOGON.EXE 456k
Msg32.EXE 992k
LSASS.EXE 1204k
wpabaln.exe 1224k
notepad.exe 1600k
cacheman.exe 1604k
TPSWCTRL.EXE 1736k
SERVICES.EXE 1752k
CRSS.EXE 1968k
SVCHOST.EXE 2364k
taskmngr.EXE 3180k
SVCHOST.EXE 6120k
EXPLORER.EXE 12340k

Commit Charge: 52M/2157M

Cacheman is reporting 1345mb free now = 167mb used out of 1512mb

Do you have ACPI enabled? MS doesnt recommend this being set to PC and I have no IRQ conflicts...This is the only thing out of advice

Oh please i want more ram ram rammmm

[Haydn]

According to your commit amount you\'re using 52 MB. Cacheman appears to be setting aside memory for its caching.

Just checked my memory usage in Win 98 and I\'m using 63 MB just running Internet Explorer. My memory use between 98 and XP is quite close with XP maybe only using 20 MB more. As I mentioned before, I can load just about as many samples in XP as 98.

What samples have you been loading?

[composer22]

Haydn:

Its been an all weekend affair.

I still have trouble and I noticed some real differences between cacheman reports and GIGA report on memory.

Cacheman would tell me I have 400 mb free out of 1.5 gig. MsInfo reports the same. This is roughly 25% memory free

Giga reports only 8% free (92% used) - not the same.

Ok, I now load in GOS Violin II Light Version which on it\'s own GOS would report comsuming only 4% memory

Boom...no can do

I reinstalled windows 2 times already and now am working on a third time

Other things I have tried since yesterday:

- Increased IOPageLockLimit to 16384 (16mb)
- Increased swap file to 2786mb static
- Installed as Standard PC (bypassing ACPI)
- NOT installed cacheman
- Added a few services back in so I wouldn\'t get WARNINGS in the event log.

Now, this is a Intel 850 so I am going to try and play around with the drivers for it:
- INF base drivers
- Application Accelerator (IAA)
- Network Drivers for onboard lan card
- NVIDEA drivers

But none of these affected memory - still using 200 mb on first boot of XP after installation...w/o applying latest and greatest drivers

Number of instruments loaded = 195

I have NO modem or Internet connection on that PC

Why is Giga not recognizing the physical memory that is reported being free by other programs?

[composer22]

After an 1/2 nighter, I still have the same problem.

reinstalled XP
ran POST test on mobo and memory
installed lastest drivers and giga 2.5.48 2K/XP
Optimized and unoptimized tested
Increases IOPageLockLimit to 192mb
did NOT install cacheman
Info Manager reports 26% free physical mem; giga reports 8%???

I have around 400 mb free

This is the thrid time i installed XP Home
Also, installed it as Standard PC this time.

still the problem occurs

[Doc]

Don\'t know much about XP other than the problems I read about it in the forums, but I seem to remember some thread on not needing the plug and play service. Devices/IRQ/DMA settings can be set in the BIOS, if that helps any. As for ACPI you can install OS without it and turn that off also in the BIOS.

[composer22]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doc:
Don\'t know much about XP other than the problems I read about it in the forums, but I seem to remember some thread on not needing the plug and play service. Devices/IRQ/DMA settings can be set in the BIOS, if that helps any. As for ACPI you can install OS without it and turn that off also in the BIOS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks doc:

I tried both ACPI and Standard PC but still same problem.

I had an IRQ shared between the soundcard and Network card, but i just looked at an SOS article and they said this is fine if both are PCI cards. One is PCI and the other is onboard network. They both report that there are no conflicts.

It shouldn\'t affect memory not being recognized. I can try disabling PnP services - scary! I thought the ACPI version was better at interrupt handing!

[Haydn]

You\'ll gain very little memory by disabling some of the core services. Giga\'s memory reporting varies from what you\'re actual memory is. I never load my memory to more than 85% in Giga as the program becomes unstable at that point.

You said that you had 185 instruments loaded. What instruments are you loading? I don\'t think I\'ve ever loaded more than 60 in one performance especially using GOS, Dan Dean or other libraries. The problem I run into is not usually memory but not enough polyphony.

[composer22]

195 instruments loaded. Polyphony is unrelated. These are different articulations and light versions of:

DDSW, DDSB
QLB
Malmsjo Piano
Giga Harp
LOP
UVib
UMarimba
GOS Violin I KS and LT (light version)

which I use to patch flip to get articulations in a phrase.

Haydn: XP? You run into stability problems with XP? How much memory do you have? Processor?

Check your reading...

Use the Msinfo32.exe and see what your memory free reading is and compare it to percent that gig is reporting and see if it is the same...


I dont gain as much as what people are reporting I would gain that is true.

Are you running STANDARD PC or with APCI enabled? Im curious if this really makes much of a difference.

I\'m really ready to install again!

[Haydn]

Composer22,

I would use Task Manager to check your available memory not MSINFO32. Task Manager is real-time.

I\'m not sure what Giga bases its memory readings from. Hopefully from the physical memory and not from virtual memory. You would not want your samples loading into virtual memory as that would cause performance problems.

The instability I mentioned before was in Win 98 when memory was loaded above 85%. I would still be leary of loading Giga above 90% even in Win XP though I have not tried it yet.

You seem to be loading some rather large libraries and I\'d think you\'d be hitting polyphony issues at this point. Are you using these libraries or just loading in as many as possible? You may be expecting more than what is possible with your system.

Try doing some orchestrations with these instruments loaded in. Let me know what polyphony issues you\'re getting. That harp alone will eat up 100 voices with glisses. A few of the EXP GOS patches will eat up the rest of your voices. We haven\'t even gotten to adding percussion, brass and woodwinds.

Personally, I think your machine is working fine if you can load 195 instruments with 1.5 GB of memory. I never load more than 50 with my 512 MB.

[PatS]

What about the Performance tool in the Administrative Tools folder (displayed via the MMC)? I\'ve used it on a Win2K Server for real-time monitoring of various subsystems, including memory.

Using the Performance Tool (\"http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/productdoc/en/default.asp?url=/WINDOWSXP/home/using/productdoc/en/snap_sysmon.asp\")

After launching the Performance tool, select System Monitor in the left window, then click the + button above the histogram window. Select the desired performance object from the drop-down menu. The rest should be self-explanatory.

Pat

[This message has been edited by PatS (edited 04-17-2002).]

[composer22]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Haydn:

I would use Task Manager to check your available memory not MSINFO32. Task Manager is real-time.
[B]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did...its the same...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Haydn:
[B]
I\'m not sure what Giga bases its memory readings from. Hopefully from the physical memory and not from virtual memory.
[B]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It\'s not virtual memory. I validated this. I also played around with the VM a bit. It seems to be optimally set....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Haydn:
[B]
The instability I mentioned before was in Win 98 when memory was loaded above 85%. I would still be leary of loading Giga above 90% even in Win XP though I have not tried it yet.
[B]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am was up around 95% on SE. No problem. Others were up to 100%.

Last night, I draged and dropped instruments from the gig file into the performace and loaded in fine. If i try the GIG file alone it gives me an Error 5.

Gig again doesnt recoginze I have around 400 mb free or 26%. It still reports I have only 5-8% free...

On load of Windows, the Page File (PF) is around 40-50mb. This seems abnormally high. Im not sure though what this means in Taskmngr.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Haydn:
[B]
You seem to be loading some rather large libraries and I\'d think you\'d be hitting polyphony issues at this point. Are you using these libraries or just loading in as many as possible?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just as many as I will need for the performance - rough 5-14 instruments per player for articulation + technique needs. Its the smallest I can get away with. All sounds are light versions. 195 is actually not that bad, and others have report MUCH higher loads. Plyphony isnt a problem for me. Harps are not an issue. I can record them to Disk if I need glisses. If I do have polyphony problems which I dont anticipate I can dump these to disk.

The main concern right now is again that Gig doesnt recognize that I have an additional 400+ MB free.

Settings again for memory are:

NonPagedPoolQuota: 0x00000000 (0)
NonPagedPoolSize: 0x00000000 (0)
PagedPoolQuota: 0x00000000 (0)
PagedPoolSize: 0x00000000 (0)
SecondLevelDataCache: 0x00000000 (0)
SystemPages: 0x00000000 (0)
PagingFiles: Unknown Data Type
PhysicalAddressExtension: 0x00000000 (0)
SessionViewSize: 0x00000030 (48)
SessionPoolSize: 0x00000004 (4)
IoPageLockLimit: 0x00010000 (65536)

I really would like to know what these do:
PhysicalAddressExtension: 0x00000000 (0)
SessionViewSize: 0x00000030 (48)
SessionPoolSize: 0x00000004 (4)

And, this may be maxed. I dont know if I can set it higher than 64mb limit...

IoPageLockLimit: 0x00010000 (65536)

I checked for Memory leaks.

I sometimes get Error 0\'s when I load. I have no idea what these are.

[composer22]

This is the latest news from a support admin on the tascam site. This comes after alot of discussions about the memory limitation issues with Giga on XP...that giga cannot read more than 1 gig of memory yet I have a 2 gig machine...

\"Win 2K has the same memory allocation issues as XP, and a 10 MIDI port limitation to boot.

BTW, GigaEngineering recommends XP over 2K.\"

He never acknowledges or makes name where the accountability lies for this limitation. He continues to refuse to do so. It could be conexient, tascam or microsofts fault There is no mitigation plan that can be discussed. We can speculate that this limitation is intensional.

The fact remains and people should know that gigasampler has a limitation < 1gig. My own testing on XP was < 800mb. Do not think that upgrading your machine to say 1.5gig and buying Xp will solve your upgrade woes. Save your money!

Boo on tascam!!!
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