Orchestration Challenge V

[SeanHannifin]

Mika, winner of the Orchestration Challenge IV, has just sent me the new theme!


http://wizardwalk.com/OrchestrationChallenges/ChallengeV.jpg

Here's the Midi file : http://wizardwalk.com/OrchestrationChallenges/ChallengeV.mid

What a melody! The Orchestration Challenges Archive has been updated with this theme. Also, a summary of the rules that have evolved is listed there (though they are open for debate if anyone has ideas on how to make the challenges better). The archive is here : http://wizardwalk.com/OrchestrationChallenges

There were 7 entries last round! Will there be more this round?

Since Mika does not have the webspace, I will be collecting the entries. Just email them on over to sean@wizardwalk.com

Lastly, we need to decide on a deadline for this round . . . I know it can get busy as we approach the holiday season, should we extend the deadline or keep it at around four weeks?

Many thanks to Mika for the new theme!

[Richard N.]

WooHoo!

I was looking for a project to do tomorrow - I am on holiday this week, and have done all my housework duties!

Let's get cracking!

As for timescale, how about entries in by December 11th, and two weeks for voting with the winner being announced on December 25th?

[SeanHannifin]

As for timescale, how about entries in by 11/12/05
November 12th is a little soon . . . oh wait, that's December 11th in its backwards European version http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[southportJim]

November 12th is a little soon . . . oh wait, that's December 11th in its backwards European version http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Now that we have that "date format" thing straightened out I'll second December 11 as the "turn-in" date.

I was planning on sitting this one out and using the time to better learn Sonar, but this theme is intriguing...so I'm probably "in".

...LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
;-)


ps - the Christmas CD is over with...so some of you who "sat out" last time around for that reason should consider entering this time...YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE! ;-)

[Cobalt Katze]

I'm ready this time! It's ON! :D

[Richard N.]

Good catch Sean, I've edited my post to avoid confusion.

BTW this one really is a challenge !

[SeanHannifin]

Let's use a date format that will avoid all confusion once and for all . . . the due date will be Stardate -318945.2 http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Richard N.]

No luck Sean - there seems to be no concensus at all on how to calculate Stardates.

Every site that purports to have a Stardate calculator throws up different answers. :D

[SeanHannifin]

Every site that purports to have a Stardate calculator throws up different answers. :D
:D You're right! I just tried it . . . oh well :D

[L0W]

:D You're right! I just tried it . . . oh well :D
That's because there is no agreed formula for calculating ST Stardates, and it is different between different Star Treks (TOS, TNG, VGR)!

Here's a nice OT link that explains it all rather amusingly:
http://starchive.cs.umanitoba.ca/?stardates/part1

By the way good luck everyone with OC 5G.

[SeanHannifin]

ker-bump :D

I guess the due date is in one month from now!

[SeanHannifin]

*mmmm-bump* :D

The deadline continues to approach . . . I have gotten a couple entries so far.

[RichR]

I was going to try this next challenge, but somehow I missed the first announcement on Nov. 3. Probably due to an emergency with my son which got me on a flight and visit in Denver for 2 weeks starting right then. I'll play around with the challenge, but probably won't get it done. Sigh! Maybe the next one!

RichR

[FossMan]

Does Gary ever listen to these challenges? It'd be cool to get his take on the music.

[southportJim]

BUMP!

...back to the first page. 10 more days or so to go!

;-)

[FossMan]

BUMP!

Can't wait to see the entries!

[SeanHannifin]

And it's not too late to take a stab at it!

I haven't even started on my entry yet . . . :o

It's bound to be an interesting round.

[Cobalt Katze]

I haven't even started on my entry yet . . . :o

Me neither... shhh, don't tell anyone.

[cptexas]

Me neither... shhh, don't tell anyone.
DON'T WORRY I WON'T TELL THAT YOU AND SEAN HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED YOUR ENTRIES!!!! (he yells)

:D

[southportJim]

DON'T WORRY I WON'T TELL THAT YOU AND SEAN HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED YOUR ENTRIES!!!! (he yells)

:D


Chris...<whisper> neither have I, and I'll bet that you haven't either! ;-0


;-)

[cptexas]

Chris...<whisper> neither have I, and I'll bet that you haven't either! ;-0


;-)
:eek: how did you know?:p
Actually, these past four themes have been extremely difficult for a more 'simple' (OK, not so much simple as inexperienced and new) composer like myself. What I've noticed happening is that the really advanced composers always win the challanges and they post really hard themes for the next challange.
Maybe there can be a seperate challange for us less compositionisticly inclined? :)

-Chris

[southportJim]

:eek: how did you know?:p
Actually, these past four themes have been extremely difficult for a more 'simple' (OK, not so much simple as inexperienced and new) composer like myself. What I've noticed happening is that the really advanced composers always win the challanges and they post really hard themes for the next challange.
Maybe there can be a seperate challange for us less compositionisticly inclined? :)

-Chris

You're right...of course everyone complained that Sean's original theme was "too diatonic", remember?

I guess we could score it for non-pitched percussion!

;-)

[cptexas]

You're right...of course everyone complained that Sean's original theme was "too diatonic", remember?

I guess we could score it for non-pitched percussion!

;-)
That's exactly what I mean--I can make 'better' music out of diatonic stuff, but not really this advanced stuff. That's why I think maybe a split for us less compositionally inclined might be good, unless I end up being the only one participating in this new challange. I guess it's just my style, I'm more classical, like Mozart--lots of scales and arpegios. I LOVE scales and arpegios and the way they sound, so I write with 'em! :D

I don't mean to be selfish here, just I'd really like to participate in these challanges, but they're just too advanced for me.

-Chris

[Stephanie Pray]

:eek: how did you know?:p
Actually, these past four themes have been extremely difficult for a more 'simple' (OK, not so much simple as inexperienced and new) composer like myself. What I've noticed happening is that the really advanced composers always win the challanges and they post really hard themes for the next challange.
Maybe there can be a seperate challange for us less compositionisticly inclined? :)

-Chris

Hi Chris,
I probably have no business even saying this because I've not entered one of the challenges yet (because I've been so busy) but it looks to me that you're copping out. "it's too hard..." and "everyone's more advanced than me..." is what I'm feeling that you're really saying. Well, you're young and talented, so you can do it just as easily as the rest of us. If you don't try you won't win and you won't learn anything. Why do you think that it's called "Orchestration Challenge"? It's meant to be a CHALLENGE! It's supposed to be difficult. Having separate catagories for the "inexperienced" or "less compositionsticly inclined" rids the contest of it's main purpose of being a challenge and takes the fun out of it for everyone. I hope that this doesn't come across as being rude, but sounds to me that you just want the easy way out. Have some fun, give it a shot and see what happens.

Steph :n:
(running away to find a place to duck and cover....) :p

[southportJim]

WHOA!!!! Everybody duck!!!!!!!!

;-)

[SeanHannifin]

Yes, it is supposed to be challenging, but I can understand your plight. I don't think you have to worry about all winners coming up with a non-diatonic stuff though . . . but that's part of the glory of winning, it's completely up to the winner . . . and everyone has a different style. So if you can, just have fun with the theme. Experiment with it and see what you can do with it . . . and don't be afraid to send it in! (even if you yourself are not happy with it, others may like it a vote for it ;) )

By the way . . . HAHAHAHA!!! :D :D :D What a great avatar you have!!

[southportJim]

Experiment with it and see what you can do with it . . . and don't be afraid to send it in! (even if you yourself are not happy with it, others may like it a vote for it ;) )


And if you don't get any votes, then you can just remain anonymous at the end and not take credit for it...which is what I'm probably gonna do this time around. I just started this morning and so far...well, things don't look so good!

;-)

[dewdman42]

I agree and disagree about it being too hard. It scared me away too actually. I don't know anything about post-tonal music yet and I would simply be pulling music out of my rear end if anything at all. Hey I think its great that post-tonal people can have this contest..and I am definitely intrigued by it..and would love to learn more...but I must confess.....There was no point in me submitting something I pulled out of my rear end...so I am not. Something a little more diatonic might engage me.

On the other hand... It can be very interesting to go in new directions. It is true that there are people of varying ability levels on this forum and most of the stuff I hear on here are from people who are seriously quite accomplished. That is great for them and frankly I think they should be challenged and have some fun with something like this. Maybe we need a another parallel challenge for those of us who are less experienced.

[88fingers]

:p
And if you don't get any votes, then you can just remain anonymous at the end and not take credit for it...which is what I'm probably gonna do this time around. I just started this morning and so far...well, things don't look so good!

;-)


Ha! So now we know Southportjim will be the entry that doesn't look so good.:D
See, you gave yourself away.


Steph,
You are so right about taking the challenge. I think that I could take a descent stab at these harder melodies, but don't because they don't fit my style. I use the cop out of not being able to arrange for these, oh, and not having GPO loaded back on my computer for a while.

Time for me to man up and post my efforts no matter how good or bad.
Come to think of it, some entrants may apreciate my bad posting Cuz it will make thiers sound better.:p

Dont worry Cptexas,
Someone will eventually post a melody you like to work with, and just think of how great it will feel for you to orchestrate it after you have challenged yourself with these harder melodies that tax your imagination!

So here, with my big mouth open, I had better get to work on this piece and give South port a run for his money in remaining annonamous.

[SeanHannifin]

Well, no one could stop a parallel orchestration challenge that is meant to stay diatonic I guess from developing if there is enough interest. However, I'd hate to see this particular line of challenges become strictly "undiatonic" or something. Because if the winner of this round chooses to write a more diatonic theme and there's already another diatonic theme being used in the parallel challenge, it may be kind of superfluous.

We could have the winner of this challenge write one diatonic theme, and an optional parallel undiatonic theme. Then it would branch out into the two parallel challenges, one "free themed" where the winner can create whatever kind of theme he or she desires, and one "tonal themed" where the winner must follow some kind of rules in the theme composing (not sure what those would be yet though).

Or we could just keep it all together . . .

And also now that JABB is out we could start a JABB Orchestration Challenge branch as well . . .

Whatcha think? :D

[FossMan]

I don't know what the big deal is with a piece being diatonic or non-diatonic. This particular theme wasn't particularly tonal or non-tonal. It was kinda in the middle--in a sort of gray area.

The biggest challenge I thought was the pulse (seriously, who writes 7/8 against 8/8)? :eek:

As far as it not fitting into any one key, one of my favorite composers (John Williams) does that all the time... "Han Solo and the Princess" I believe comes to mind. Still, it's a lovely theme. Perhaps the way to go about thinking of a melody line like this is to ignore the "key" entirely and just write chords around the individual notes, then try to string them together in a fashion that flows.

Of course, this could also just be a load of gibberish...:)

[Cobalt Katze]

I'm personally loving the melody and have been coming up with a lot of colorful sketches as to the possibilities of orchestration :D Kudos to the creator! Now to actually start the final thing... At least classes end soon.

[cptexas]

Darnit, I knew this would end up in a discussion.
Steph, I see where you're coming from, but you can't really learn how to play the piano by first trying to learn the third movement of the moonlight sonata. That's what I was saying. These themes are quite difficult for me, as a begginer composer.

But I see where everyone's coming from, so I have a suggestion for myself and/or anybody who happens to be in my shoes or similiar shoes: make up your own melodies that you like and make music from them and post them for comments in the listening room and eventually you'll be experienced enough to comfortably tackle one of these challanges. :) In fact, that's what I've been doing, writing a group of offertories for organ. I'm on the second one now. I figure I write one every week and play them at church every Sunday. Of course, since our congregation is so small, they only have to be about 45 seconds in legth. :D

Sean, thanks for the compliment on my avatar. I designed it myself. :D
-Chris

[SeanHannifin]

But I see where everyone's coming from, so I have a suggestion for myself and/or anybody who happens to be in my shoes or similiar shoes: make up your own melodies that you like and make music from them and post them for comments in the listening room and eventually you'll be experienced enough to comfortably tackle one of these challanges. :)
So, in other words . . . write music on your own . . . :D :D :D :D :D

ooooooooo I'm tired

[cptexas]

So, in other words . . . write music on your own . . . :D :D :D :D :D

ooooooooo I'm tired
Pretty much, I just view the challanges as a goal to strive to be able to do.
-Chris

[Stephanie Pray]

Pretty much, I just view the challanges as a goal to strive to be able to do.
-Chris

Hi Chris!

That's the attitude I was hoping to see!! :) Yes, you CAN do it!! :)

Steph

[SeanHannifin]

Pretty much, I just view the challanges as a goal to strive to be able to do.
-Chris
You're already able to do it . . . use the force . . . :)


http://35heures.blog.lemonde.fr/photos/uncategorized/yoda.jpg


(ew, what ugly hand)

[southportJim]

Pretty much, I just view the challanges as a goal to strive to be able to do.
-Chris

...me too!

;-)

[cptexas]

You're already able to do it . . . use the force . . . :)


http://35heures.blog.lemonde.fr/photos/uncategorized/yoda.jpg


(ew, what ugly hand)
Eeewww, I'd hate to play piano with THAT hand!! :eek:
:D

[SeanHannifin]

Eeewww, I'd hate to play piano with THAT hand!! :eek:
:D
HA!! :D :D :D "Yoda, play a major 7th! . . . What do you mean you can't?"

"Play the music I cannot. Three-fingered am I."

[FredProgGH]

HA!! :D :D :D
"Play the music I cannot. Three-fingered am I."

Yeah, but two handed he is. Anyway, Yoda can play keys with the power of the force.

[SeanHannifin]

Anyway, Yoda can play keys with the power of the force.
Oh yeah . . . DUH . . . why didn't I realize that? :D :D

Yoda would be an awesome conductor, just standing up there waving his arms about using the force to play all the instruments . . . that would be sweeeet

[cptexas]

Oh yeah . . . DUH . . . why didn't I realize that? :D :D

Yoda would be an awesome conductor, just standing up there waving his arms about using the force to play all the instruments . . . that would be sweeeet
COOL!!!
:D

[Collin]

I was just looking over some of the posts and it made me think, you could treat the melody as G dorian (with some G# passing tones) till the last three measures which could be in Eb Well not totally, but you could circle groups of notes that could be in any number of keys. How high the moon goes through a mess of keys, but no one would call it non diatonic. For the people that want to handle the melody in a diatonic manor you can try looking for some cool modulations. There is more than one way to harmonize a melody. Its very possible that some straight ahead triadic harmony could send this thing to an other planet.

[88fingers]

Tommorow is the big day!!!!!
Looking forward to all the great music you all wrote.


Get your entries in;) :D

[SeanHannifin]

Time to get started!

. . . eh, soon . . .

[Cobalt Katze]

It just figures that tomorrow is the first totally free day I've had all month... I better get crackin' the moment I wake up. Entries due on midnight of the 11th?

[SeanHannifin]

It just figures that tomorrow is the first totally free day I've had all month... I better get crackin' the moment I wake up. Entries due on midnight of the 11th?
Well, as close as you can to midnight . . . since midnight is different in different parts of the world, it's not strict to the second :D

[Cobalt Katze]

Well, as close as you can to midnight . . . since midnight is different in different parts of the world, it's not strict to the second :D

Right on, I'll do my best :) Already got off to a fun start this morning! *plugs away*

[Cobalt Katze]

It's the final stretch! Get your entries in now! :D

Excited to see(hear) how they all turn out!

[SeanHannifin]

We have a very good number of entries, this will be a very interesting round indeed!!

Since it's not midnight in all parts of the world yet, I guess I'll accept entries for the next few hours or so... if there's anyone out there still working on one! :D Hurry up!

I'll try to post them around 9:00 - 9:30 am est. time in the morning (which is like 1:00 pm in London :eek: )

Thanks to all who are participating!

[SeanHannifin]

All-righty!! The entries have been posted in the new thread! Enjoy! :D