What is your writing process??

[Guy Smiley]

Hey all,

Hopefully this is the right group to post this is to. I've been a musician for a couple decades, but I'm completely new to composing anything for orchestra. I've ordered the Kennan book, which I think will help me out quite a bit.

But I wanted to ask, what is your composing process like? Whenever I wrote anything pop it more or less went like this...

1. Write chorus chords, 2. write chorus melody, 3. write verse chords, 4. write verse melody, 5. fill in stuff here and there, 6. done

So....obviously this really isn't going to work anymore, right? Say you want to write a piece that's 4 minutes or so in length. How do you go about it?

Thanks!
John

[SeanHannifin]

I've never written a pop song in that kind of format (chorus, verse, etc) . . . though I suppose I could if I really wanted to :D

First of all, I don't believe there is any right or wrong way to go about it.

Well, you know what? I had started typing a longer response, but I realized my process changes so many times with every piece, that I really have no set process! I usually do start out with a melody already in my mind, or some weird structure for the piece, but then as I start writing I focus my work on whatever I feel like I need to work on at the time :D

Some pieces I've planned out completely before writing, others I've just let it flow as I went along. Sometimes I've written melodies from harmonies, many times I harmonize previously thought up melodies.

So the process goes all over the place for me :D I don't think I could even make a list :D

Then again, I'm not writing for money or with much of a time limit for most of my music, so I don't really have limits as others might.

[Stephanie Pray]

Hi Mr. Smiley,

Welcome to the forum. :) I wish that I could help with this, but I don't have a process - it just happens...

Good Luck!
Steph :n:

[squoze]

Just so you'll know what not to do...
I usually load a few instruments, or just the piano, and fiddle (no pun intended) around till I find an interesting phrase. Then I'll add a few measures before, deciding what progression would lead up to the phrase, and add a few measures after to carry it on out.
Then I might rework the whole thing with other intruments, add ample salt and pepper and bake @ 450 for 12 minutes.
Since anyone knows that it actually takes about 25 minutes to fully cook, I end up with a bunch of half-baked musical ideas. :p

[Guy Smiley]

Hmm so it sounds like all of you are much more experimental than I had guessed. Squoze, I think I was gonna go along your lines of thinking for my first attempt: record some melodies in piano and put them where I think they ought to be, and then use that recording as a skeleton. Then fill in other parts, remove piano, and voila! :D

[SeanHannifin]

I'm not sure it's so much "experimental" as it is "free form" . . . I biased toward free form just because it's easier for me, not to mention stricter forms can get boring when used over and over again, but that's just my opinion. My family listens to country and pop music on the radio all the time, which is always AABA . . . boring! But again, it's just my opinion. There's no right or wrong way to go about it. Obviously if you love AABA form there's no shame in using it all the time :D

[cptexas]

I 'fiddle' around on my instruments. Since I play piano, organ, cello, bassoon, and flute, I mess around with each one. Some instruments inspire different melodies than others. Especially the organ: all those neat noises! :D
Then I ORGANize (hehe) that melody into chords, maybe spring a few other melodies off of the origional one that have the same 'feel' as the melody, decide on what kind of musical world I want to create (so that I keep my piece in one world so it doesn't end up intergalactic) and then I organize those melodies into a logical and musical way as to create that musical world, add salt and pepper still keeping this world in mind, and bake for 20 mins (fully cooked) and I start the years-long revision phase.
Sometimes I like to do a revision done in manuscript. I always get better results when I handwrite music because I can stop and think about everything I do. I usually end up with more musical and logical forms, better harmonies (also dependant on your musical world), and an overall better piece.
Of course, after saying all this, I have yet to finish a piece. :o :p :D :|: :rolleyes: :eek:
Will post my symphony no. 1 when done! (just to give a timeframe: probably 2 years, seriously. I'm that slow :confused: )

Have fun,
-Chris

[SeanHannifin]

Of course, after saying all this, I have yet to finish a piece.

Will post my symphony no. 1 when done! (just to give a timeframe: probably 2 years, seriously. I'm that slow http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif )
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Maybe you should try a smaller piece first, like a five minute symphonietta (or whatever they're called) and create a bunch of those as practice. I've started a symphony several times and have yet been able to finish http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif I'm sure you could do it if you really wanted though, it's can just be a rather large undertaking.

[Ernstinen]

Listen to your Muse. Roll your eyes back. Don't think. Meditate. Reject any intellectual concepts. Write your music.

Ern :n:

[cptexas]

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Maybe you should try a smaller piece first, like a five minute symphonietta (or whatever they're called) and create a bunch of those as practice. I've started a symphony several times and have yet been able to finish http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif I'm sure you could do it if you really wanted though, it's can just be a rather large undertaking.
I've written many orchestral 'ideas' but none of them were really good enough to develop on. The symphony is coming well, though. It probably won't be an hour-long Beethoven masterpiece, but I think it'll be good.
-Chris

[SeanHannifin]

but I think it'll be good.
I'll be the judge of that . . . http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Just kidding! Sorry, couldn't help myself . . . http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I look forward to hearing it! You also might want to talk to Beethoven who registered under the name 'DeComposer' or something. http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[southportJim]

You also might want to talk to Beethoven who registered under the name 'DeComposer' or something. http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


...don't encourage Multiple Personality Disorder!!!!

;-)

[Cobalt Katze]

Lately I've been working a lot with structures. As in, crafting a pre-conceived notion of how I'm going to be phrasing and shaping the piece as a template of sorts before I actually sit down and write any notes. I've found it helps me write faster and fits the idiom of music for dance rather well. Of course, I'll still write the "unprovoked" traditional way for me, but this is a new way I've been looking at creating lately that's been a really interesting process:

Take the piece I'm working on right now as an example: The entire thing is the process of cutting down a tree. There, I've got my structure.

All the instruments I'm using are primarily constructed using wood or other natural elements: dragon's mouths, vanilla bean, angklung (several pieces of bamboo), tube drums, whip, bedug (large javanese drum), log drum, suspended flower pot and marimba.

Now, I went back and started plotting out the temporal and melodic structure using an improvised sketch of tree rings. Moving from left to right, I found different proportions of space between the rings which became the proportions of my phrases: 1/2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 4, 2, 3, 3, 3, 1/2. In my case, I multiplied the proportions to come up with 1/2, 8, 8, 8, 4, 16, 8, 12, 12, 12, 1/2. I chose a meter, 7/8, and set up all the bars of the piece. I then had a gridwork of exactly where the phrases changed, where the piece began and ended.

Looking at the tree rings vertically, I took into account the proportions to build a scale to use for the marimba: 1/2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1/2. This translated into the scale, using solfege: (Ti)Do, Re, Me, Mi, Fa, Le, La, Te, Ti, Do(Ra).

Now, picture the tree rings. As we move from left to right through the piece, only certain rings are available. I took that into account and so for each phrase I limited myself to the pitches that would occur based on how many rings were available. So for the first and last phrase, I could use only the fundamental, its octave, and the half steps below the lower and above the higher. In the next phrase, I could add in the next two notes. Repeat until in the middle 16-bar phrase, I could use every pitch in the scale.

So yeah, wordy, but that's what I'm working with now :D Pretty pleased with how it's turning out so far. Perhaps when it's done, I'll do an orchestral arrangement with GPO ;)

[Liszt]

...don't encourage Multiple Personality Disorder!!!!
I'm sure Sean didn't mean to. :)

[southportJim]

I'm sure Sean didn't mean to. :)

:o :) ;) :eek:


;-)
:n:

[cptexas]

Lately I've been working a lot with structures. As in, crafting a pre-conceived notion of how I'm going to be phrasing and shaping the piece as a template of sorts before I actually sit down and write any notes. I've found it helps me write faster and fits the idiom of music for dance rather well. Of course, I'll still write the "unprovoked" traditional way for me, but this is a new way I've been looking at creating lately that's been a really interesting process:

Take the piece I'm working on right now as an example: The entire thing is the process of cutting down a tree. There, I've got my structure.

All the instruments I'm using are primarily constructed using wood or other natural elements: dragon's mouths, vanilla bean, angklung (several pieces of bamboo), tube drums, whip, bedug (large javanese drum), log drum, suspended flower pot and marimba.

Now, I went back and started plotting out the temporal and melodic structure using an improvised sketch of tree rings. Moving from left to right, I found different proportions of space between the rings which became the proportions of my phrases: 1/2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 4, 2, 3, 3, 3, 1/2. In my case, I multiplied the proportions to come up with 1/2, 8, 8, 8, 4, 16, 8, 12, 12, 12, 1/2. I chose a meter, 7/8, and set up all the bars of the piece. I then had a gridwork of exactly where the phrases changed, where the piece began and ended.

Looking at the tree rings vertically, I took into account the proportions to build a scale to use for the marimba: 1/2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1/2. This translated into the scale, using solfege: (Ti)Do, Re, Me, Mi, Fa, Le, La, Te, Ti, Do(Ra).

Now, picture the tree rings. As we move from left to right through the piece, only certain rings are available. I took that into account and so for each phrase I limited myself to the pitches that would occur based on how many rings were available. So for the first and last phrase, I could use only the fundamental, its octave, and the half steps below the lower and above the higher. In the next phrase, I could add in the next two notes. Repeat until in the middle 16-bar phrase, I could use every pitch in the scale.

So yeah, wordy, but that's what I'm working with now :D Pretty pleased with how it's turning out so far. Perhaps when it's done, I'll do an orchestral arrangement with GPO ;)
:eek: :eek: :eek:

You're CRAZY!!!!
I would have never thought of that.
You're TALANTED!!!!!
I would have never thought of that.
You're NUTS!!!!!!
I would have never thought of that!!!!!!

Well, my best of luck to you. A very interesting idea. I really like it. I mean, it's great!!!
I try and focus more on creating a musical world with comon ordaments, scales/arpegios, certain types of phrasing, different interval combonations, and overall style. But this is very creative!!! WOW!!! :D

Can't wait to listen!
-Chris

[DeComposer]

...don't encourage Multiple Personality Disorder!!!!

;-)
I'm sure Sean didn't mean to too.
I don't have multipule personalities. I will always be the outstanding musicial mastermind that I have been, am, and will always be.
Of course, I'm just being modest.

And as for YOU, Mr. Cobalt, your idea is absolutely hidious. Who would think of such a thing? Basing your music on TREES!?!???! What kind of thinking is THAT?!??!? Pfft. You're a waste of my valuable royal time. :mad:

-LVB himself

[Cobalt Katze]

And as for YOU, Mr. Cobalt, your idea is absolutely hidious. Who would think of such a thing? Basing your music on TREES!?!???! What kind of thinking is THAT?!??!? Pfft. You're a waste of my valuable royal time. :mad:

-LVB himself

Oh man... dissed by one of the greatest composers that ever lived. My hopes and dreams, all ruined... :(

:D ;)

[SeanHannifin]

Oh man... dissed by one of the greatest composers that ever lived. My hopes and dreams, all ruined... http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif
Don't listen to him . . . he's just jealous because he can't hear http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif

[cptexas]

Don't listen to him . . . he's just jealous because he can't hear http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif
HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
ROFLOL!!!!
:D :D

[fastlane]

1. Write chorus chords, 2. write chorus melody, 3. write verse chords, 4. write verse melody, 5. fill in stuff here and there, 6. done

A better method for writing a pop tune is to first come up with a melody possibly using the bass line as a guide instead of chords and then finding the right chords for the melody. You should be able to just hum the melody and it should stand on it's own.

[Guy Smiley]

Ok thanks all, there were some helpful answers here. NOW I have question #2.

I get the impression that most of you compose in notation form, either on paper or with Finale/Sibelius/Overture? Is that true? I ask because when I first was fiddling around, I was just kinda laying down tracks in Cubase straight from my head, and I quickly got overwhelmed by all the parts (meaning after having about four parts recorded without anything written down, I easily forgot what all the parts were doing :))

Anyway, I guess I'm gonna try the pencil and paper route now, and even though it's sure slow going at first, I guess one eventually gets quicker and develop a kind of shorthand? That's what I'm hoping anyway.

How many pencil & paper people do we have here, and how many notation software people? And I guess, how many people use some other method that I didn't think of?

Thanks,
John

[chet reinhardt]

I go to a notation program if I want to share a score (Overture 4 may change my mind). I compose in Sonar. Sometimes I use the staff view and enter notes sort of like one would in a notation program and sometimes I improvise and then mine the improvisation for themes and/or motives.

Best regards

Chet

[BermudaFlyer]

I'm the same as Chet...

I write in Sonar and concentrate on getting the "sound" of the score right, before even attempting to see it on paper. To date, I've not had to output to paper, fortunately.

Transcribing from "midi" to accurate parts for instrumentalists is an art unto itself... a job that orchestrators can get big bucks for in the professional world. :cool:

[Cobalt Katze]

I write in Sonar and concentrate on getting the "sound" of the score right, before even attempting to see it on paper. To date, I've not had to output to paper, fortunately.

Transcribing from "midi" to accurate parts for instrumentalists is an art unto itself... a job that orchestrators can get big bucks for in the professional world. :cool:

I've noticed this seems to be a pretty common way for composers to work, one that I find totally fascinating as it's not my norm :o I am, ultimately, a slave to the paper, and write most everything in Sibelius in notation form unless it's something I just can't write out. Then I'll export to midi and import it into Sonar to tweak and massage. This is mainly due to the fact that my ear is much better than my fingers when it comes to figuring out what I'm writing. And since voice is my primary instrument, I can't exactly enter midi data with that :D

One thing I'm looking into doing once I get a better midi input device is, instead of exporting from Sibelius, to look at the score and physically play in all the parts instead. The only trick here is that I'd have to practice on becoming better at my keyboard skills :D However, I don't have any immediate problems with the way I work so far. It just runs the risk of sounding a bit more artificial if not done with relative care.

[Skysaw]

I've changed my writing process largely due to the arrival of GPO in my studio. I used to be a pen and paper composer, but I'm now strictly a piano-roll composer, and I feel I'm all the more experimental and prolific for it.

I think of my writing process as similar to modelling in clay. I start crudely, and continuously refine until I am satisfied. The first movement of my Autumn Concerto started with a very basic idea: the chordal movement from E minor to Eb Major. I worked out a progression based on this, and filled out some measures with some boring long notes, which served only as place-holders. They are not expected to survive to the completion of the work.

Once I could hear the structure playing, I began to add, subtract, and embellish at will. It helps to hear the continuity provided by the initial skeleton while you work out the details. What developed in the process were other thematic features that I decided to carry through the entire work.

[SeanHannifin]

I tend to compose in Overture 4 most of the time. I generally start out with the melody, harmonize it, then orchestrate it. The overall structure of the piece is either pre-planned, or I just let it flow. Usually it's pre-planned in my head, but changes quite a lot by the time the piece is 'finished' :) I've never composed for a ballet or a film, I think those would require much more discipline in keeping to a set structure.

[BermudaFlyer]

I've never composed for a ballet or a film, I think those would require much more discipline in keeping to a set structure.

Sean,

That is a very good point... I think the main reason I write in a sequencer (versus paper) is because of the integration of the video media with the composition tool... locked together in perfect synchrosity.

Having said that, I would still write with a sequencer over paper, even if video/synch'ing wasn't an issue... probably because it's what I'm used to. :cool:

[atonal]

Guy, Welcome to the forum ! You will certainly enjoy it here.

I wish there were a fixed, repeatable way to compose. It would make it so much eaasier for me ( and my family ).

With TV/Film; I just write because there is no time to think.
For my own pleasure; I just think, because that leaves no time to write.

I sure wish I could find that golden 'mean', some middle ground. .. sigh ..

-- atonal

[CallMeZoot]

Anyway, I guess I'm gonna try the pencil and paper route now, and even though it's sure slow going at first, I guess one eventually gets quicker and develop a kind of shorthand?


No, start with sound first--that's what music is. When you have the sound you want, THEN you figure out how to write it down. Starting off with notation automatically shackles you to the limitations of dots on paper.

If I were you, I would work from what you know. If you're used to writing in verse-chorus form by laying tracks down in cubase, then start that way. Take a pop song you've already written. Buy some orchestration books and learn some of the traditional ways to spread your chords out over an orchestra. Think about what instrument(s) you want to hear on each section of the melody. Show your stuff to composers, upload mp3s and scores for people on this forum to rip apart, accept criticism as new knowledge that you can use from now on, and keep writing.

On a very basic level, converting a simple pop song to an orchestral arrangement is a snap. Your initial result will be simple and not particularly novel, but you will have developed a sense of how the instruments work with each other. Consider this piece your "practice orchestration #1". Do this a few times, experimenting with new combinations of instruments, elaborating on the background figures, adding countermelodies, etc.

Eventually you can throw your verse-chorus form out the window and try writing a piece that's purely for orchestra (not just an orchestration of a pop tune). You'll be able to think in terms of colors and sounds, instead of melodies and chords. But in the meantime start with what you know.

chris.

[BermudaFlyer]

No, start with sound first--that's what music is...

All very good advice, Zoot. :cool:

[Jesse Hopkins]

I learned on my own from when I was 16. I learned backwards. Orchestration/Notation first, then Harmony. My Harmony isn't formal. I think that is a good thing. I picked it up along the way. The most important thing is having a good imagination for sound and know how to write it on paper with some knowledge of how it will sound when played by good musicians. The more vividly you can use your mind to imagine the sound, the better. This requires lots of listening to live orchestras play at the local college, or the local symphony. The next thing to learn is how to make good demos of it, because you're rarely going to get the musicians you want. But the goal should be to make music for real musicians, even when you are writing your synth mock-ups.

-Jesse

[the emperor]

i usually write a motif or a chord progression then go from there. the music then "writes itself", i dont plan anything, maybe sometimes i want to do something in terms of structure, but most of the time i dont know what the hell im doing lol.

[lonearrngr@comcast.n]

Anyway, I guess I'm gonna try the pencil and paper route now, and even though it's sure slow going at first, I guess one eventually gets quicker and develop a kind of shorthand? That's what I'm hoping anyway.

How many pencil & paper people do we have here, and how many notation software people? And I guess, how many people use some other method that I didn't think of?

Thanks,
John

John :

( old fart here :D .. who used the luddite method until finally getting into Finale 3yrs ago ...)

Although starting with the notation process will be a bit slow at first, you will soon find yourself getting more done that you can use as opposed to noodling about with cool unrelated sounds in a sequencer. IMO ..

two tips:

1. start with small 4 -6 line sketch. Get your music happening before you worry about facing the "big paper" in the orchestration process.

2. listen to all kinds of music -preferably while reading the score . You 'll find out a ton of tricks successfully used by great composers in this fashion !

Phil Kelly
www.philkellymusic.com

[daerp@mac.com]

Fascinating thread.

I am absolutely sure that every piece I have ever composed (and because I too come from a traditional background - and also am an old fart as they say) has come about in its own unique way. I have NEVER completely improvised a piece and then left it as it was. If I start by improvising (and recording into sequencer or tape player, mini disc or whatever) the process winds up being reworking and reworking ON PAPER or in NOTATION PROGRAM. I think improvisation is a great way to gather together spontaneous thoughts, but the actual composition process is, in my view, a macro to micro process. You start off with generalized notions and shapes and a few inspired nuggets and then work them and work them. You figure out what the essential stuff is and discard (possibly saving for another composition) those things which don't have much to do with the "story". One teacher of mine used to admonish that you need to tell the listener something and then tell him/her more about it and then more about it. Perhaps unfolding like a great novel or film where there are flashbacks and backstories, but inevitably, it all fits together, ideally.

Sometimes I start with much more formalized ideas. Like a small series of notes which I explore and explore and explore. I sometimes write pages of small variations on the same stuff.

I don't think one should be afraid to be intellectual during the process of writing. Why not explore literal retrogrades, inversions and other formal ideas? Don't be hung up on these either. Change what you don't want into WHAT you want.

Mozart apparently used dice to start his compositional muse. Has anyone else heard this? Makes sense. 12 numbers. 12 pitches. Roll the dice several times and write down the results. Apply the numbers to pitches and use those as your initial idea and compose something with those results. If it sucks. Roll again.

Someone said you couldn't take one character out of a Dickens novel without damaging the plot or character development. Isn't that like great composition?

Erasure is an effective effective weapon against the inevitable pileing on of one idea after another. L. Bernstein apparently said something like: "Inexperienced composers inevitably kill off one great idea with another".

No matter what, you have to chip away at your work until it sounds absolutely right to you.

I love not knowing what something is that I have written. I have taught and studied and deconstructed music for decades. I know a lot about structure from having studied and analyzed and yet my favourite moments are those when something sounds terrific and I have no idea why or what the darn thing is. Learn to TRUST YOUR EARS.

When I am caught up in indecision, I write multiple sketches. One teacher I had insisted on seeing my sketch book on a regular basis. He wanted to see page after page of variations on ideas. I don't always do this, but sometimes it helps.

Decide later. There is always later. There is always another piece.

And so on.

Paul

[SeanHannifin]

Mozart apparently used dice to start his compositional muse. Has anyone else heard this? Makes sense. 12 numbers. 12 pitches. Roll the dice several times and write down the results. Apply the numbers to pitches and use those as your initial idea and compose something with those results. If it sucks. Roll again.
Did someone say Mozart? :D

I think you're referring to the "Mozart Musical Dice Game" which was published after Mozart's death and only attributed to Mozart . . . there's no proof Mozart actually created the game described in the publication, and scholars today doubt it, though Mozart may very well have come up with some sort of game involving music and chance. The musical dice game, however, doesn't involve using the dice to choose the actual pitches, but rather a set of pre-written notes, that, when combined with the other randomly made choices, creates a Mozart-sounding melody that will already fit a proper harmony. While there are many possible outcomes, they all sound very similar (and Mozartian).

Okay . . . I just had to blather on about that . . . :D

[DPDAN]

OK,
I rarely get involved in discussions where I have nothing to contribute, but I am going to go buy some dice :)

Dan

[Tom Crowning]

[...]
If I were you, I would work from what you know. If you're used to writing in verse-chorus form by laying tracks down in cubase, then start that way. Take a pop song you've already written. Buy some orchestration books and learn some of the traditional ways to spread your chords out over an orchestra. Think about what instrument(s) you want to hear on each section of the melody. Show your stuff to composers, upload mp3s and scores for people on this forum to rip apart, accept criticism as new knowledge that you can use from now on, and keep writing.

I think that's a good advice.
I don't write classical music, but I'm doing more and more pop/rock
songs that include classical instrumenation, and each day I learn
more about these instruments and how they work (or not work ;) )
together.
Also the feedback part is important, show your work somewhere,
let people rip it apart (nice word) and learn from what they say,
or at least think about WHY they say this or that about your music.

Tom

[Guy Smiley]

Wow there was so much input on this thread! Thanks all. What I've ended up doing is going to the Overture that came with GPO. I do a heck of a lot of experimenting since I'm such a newbie, and I don't know what anything is going to sound like before I press play. I really look forward to being able to know what I want from the start, instead of having to try four different versions of everything, and figuring out they're all, ehh, crappy :).

So for now it's a long hard slog. But I bought the Kennan book that I've seen on these forums somewhere, and it's helpful. And I have Beethoven's Symph. 5,6,7 scores to look at. I think I want a Mahler one...something more modern...

Thanks again
John

[nedward]

I was in Canada a few years ago as a resident at the Banff Centre for the Arts. The Calgary Phil was going to be in town in a couple of months time and volunteers were sought to write a piece for this concert. I leapt at the chance and went about composing in the "proper" way. Lots of long walks, trying to write the piece in my head before I put pen to paper (no finale or GPO in them there days). After five weeks of this, I had got absolutely nowhere towards composing anything at all (although I had lost weight!) In frustration I decided to give up and resolved to tell the powers that be that I had let them down.

I then sat at a piano and within 20 minutes the piece had all flowed out at once. It just needed orchestrating. This was most unexpected! It was a mere 7 minutes, but longer than Webern's entire output so I was happy enough. Hearing it played live was an unbelieveable experience.

So...keep at it. It will happen.

Ned

[rav]

Hi everybody, very interesting thread.

I have to say that i have no formal music education and i almost know nothing about reading and writing, so i always start playing, but the funny thing is that many , many times the song is made itself, without thinking progress, so is like i have done nothing.

How was that song made, i really don´t know.

Always i start doing bass, melody , chords.. thinking i finish doing something different i don´t know why.

Anyone have the same experience?

Sorry for my english.

best.

[rwayland]

Well, quite often, melody, harmony, rhythm, form, style, orchestration, etc. all occur to me as a simultaneous revelation of sorts. But other times, quite different methods come into play. Depends of mood, day of week, how much French Roast coffee, state of domestic tranquillity,etc.

Richard

[C J Pro]

I usually start off drinking a couple of cans of Mountain Dew. I then play continuously on my Yamaha Keyboard for a few hours until I come up with a good melody. I then put it into Sibelius and try out an accompianment. Finally, I just start doodling within Sibelius, adding on at random until I have a complete composition.