Vibraphone KS question

[daerp@mac.com]

Okay, I'm stumped. I'm trying to figure out how to use pedal effects with vibraphone within a Finale 2006a file. At one point the vibes sounded perfect...then I reloaded them, while doing another experiment, and now they are dry, dry, dry. I've been looking through the manuals, but I'll be darned if I can get this to work. Can anyone help? Sorry for being such a newbie.

Paul :rolleyes:

[DPDAN]

I reloaded them, while doing another experiment, and now they are dry, dry, dry.
Paul :rolleyes:
I'm not a notation user at all, but you say they are now dry dry dry.
Dry meaning no reverb.

Perhaps you originally loaded the wet audition sound inadvertantly?
Just thought I would throw that out there for you.

Dan

[daerp@mac.com]

Thanks, Dan. I fixed the problem by loading, instead, the pedal version of the vibes (it seems so logical now!). A DP question for you comes out of this. I have now exported my Finale file as a MIDI file so that I can do all the mixing in DP. First thing that happened was that a pizz marking in my cello part (which worked properly in Finale) is no longer keyswitched in DP. Is there a setting I should know about? Also I notice that I have to "zero" every track in the mixer window in order to set proper levels. No big deal...it takes all of 30 seconds to do this, but it does seem quirky that you have to do this before the levels respond fully. As always, thanks for your help.
Paul

I'm not a notation user at all, but you say they are now dry dry dry.
Dry meaning no reverb.

Perhaps you originally loaded the wet audition sound inadvertantly?
Just thought I would throw that out there for you.

Dan

[Nickie Fønshauge]

If you use Human Playback in Finale06, make sure to load from the "9. Notation" folder and to check/select Playback Settings | Human Playback Preferences "Best legato using controller" "68".

[daerp@mac.com]

Thank you , Nickie. That was checked (I checked). In order to trigger the legato (controller 68) do you then use pedal expression markings in the score to differenciate legato phrases from others? Or phrase markings? Put another way I guess I am asking how you trigger controller 68. I did find that just using the pedal version of the vibes worked out quite nicely in the piece I am finishing now, but I haven't needed any non-legato or non pedalled notes at all.
Thanks again
Paul


If you use Human Playback in Finale06, make sure to load from the "9. Notation" folder and to check/select Playback Settings | Human Playback Preferences "Best legato using controller" "68".

[Nickie Fønshauge]

When you use the vibes from the "3. percussion" folder, you need to select CC#64 as the legato controler and uncheck "Use unified keyswitches", since unified KeySwitches are only found in "9. Notation". Whether you use folders 1-8/CC#64/-"Use unified keyswitches" or folder 9/CC#68/+"Use unified keyswitches", legato is normally indicated with a slur. I would imagine this also goes for the vibes, although I haven't actually tried this.

[daerp@mac.com]

Thank you. I'll try the slur/phrase marks. The second movement of the piece requires the change from pedal to non pedalled notes, so your advice is well timed.
Paul

When you use the vibes from the "3. percussion" folder, you need to select CC#64 as the legato controler and uncheck "Use unified keyswitches", since unified KeySwitches are only found in "9. Notation". Whether you use folders 1-8/CC#64/-"Use unified keyswitches" or folder 9/CC#68/+"Use unified keyswitches", legato is normally indicated with a slur. I would imagine this also goes for the vibes, although I haven't actually tried this.

[daerp@mac.com]

Well, I'm back. The phrase mark solution doesn't make a wit of difference, unfortunately. The notes are still deadened. No pedal. So, I have two choices only at the moment. Use the non-KS vibes which use Pedal mode 1 (from what I have read) and the KS version which allows keyswitching. Only thing is that I can't figure out how to program the keyswitch from within Finale. I'm not using the Notation version of any of the patches...perhaps this will force me to do that....but it seems to me that I should be able to use the full version of the libraries without sacrificing keyswitching for this instrument. Perhaps there are special symbols I haven't figured out yet...

Anyway, I wanted to say I'm still stuck and would appreciate any and all help on this one.

Paul


Thank you. I'll try the slur/phrase marks. The second movement of the piece requires the change from pedal to non pedalled notes, so your advice is well timed.
Paul

[Nickie Fønshauge]

Paul, you should read what the Update documentation (http://www.garritan.com/support/GPOUpdate.pdf) has to say about the vibraphone. It's on page 14. If you use the folder 9/CC#68 instrument, you can control the tremolo level with CC#22, continuously from CC#22=0 (completely dry) to CC#22=127 (completely wet), and the tremolo speed with CC#23, likewise continuously. As I read it, there's no need for slurs/phrase marks. Just issue (blank) text expressions with playback Type: Controller #22/23 and Effect: Set To whatever level you prefer. I suppose the KeySwitched instrument works similarly. BTW, the KS feature doesn't seem to affect dry/wet, only sustained (C) & release trigger roll (D).

Edit: Once again I was wrong :o The KS Vibraphone works differently, try it with "sustain / sostenuto pedal mode" = MIDI controller/switch. The "9 Notation" vibraphone needs "sustain / sostenuto pedal mode" = normal.

[daerp@mac.com]

Thank you again for your help with this. I actually didn't have the updated documentation, for some reason, although I have the updated GPO. I now have a copy and am going through it... Some much to learn, so little time.

I haven't figured out yet what you mean by the folder 9 stuff. Does that refer to some preference setting in GPO or does it relate to FInale?
Paul


Paul, you should read what the Update documentation (http://www.garritan.com/support/GPOUpdate.pdf) has to say about the vibraphone. It's on page 14. If you use the [I]folder 9/CC#68 instrument, you can control the tremolo level with CC#22, continuously from CC#22=0 (completely dry) to CC#22=127 (completely wet), and the tremolo speed with CC#23, likewise continuously. As I read it, there's no need for slurs/phrase marks. Just issue (blank) text expressions with playback Type: Controller #22/23 and Effect: Set To whatever level you prefer. I suppose the KeySwitched instrument works similarly. BTW, the KS feature doesn't seem to affect dry/wet, only sustained (C) & release trigger roll (D).

Edit: Once again I was wrong :o The KS Vibraphone works differently, try it with "sustain / sostenuto pedal mode" = MIDI controller/switch. The "9 Notation" vibraphone needs "sustain / sostenuto pedal mode" = normal.

[DPDAN]

a pizz marking in my cello part (which worked properly in Finale) is no longer keyswitched in DP. Is there a setting I should know about?

keyswitches in DP are simply notes in the midi track, I'm not sure why they would not work.


Also I notice that I have to "zero" every track in the mixer window in order to set proper levels. No big deal...it takes all of 30 seconds to do this, but it does seem quirky that you have to do this before the levels respond fully. As always, thanks for your help.
Paul

There really is no such thing as "proper levels", that would depend on the mix (balance) that you want. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by having to "zero" all the faders in DP's mixing board, since they are set to zero by default when a new audio track is loaded.

I'm not sure I was much help,.... sorry. ;)
Dan

[Nickie Fønshauge]

I haven't figured out yet what you mean by the [I]folder 9 stuff. Does that refer to some preference setting in GPO or does it relate to FInale?

The folder I refer to, is the one called 9. Notation in the GPO player v.1.1.8.3. The CC#68 is a setting in Finale | Playback Settings | Human Playback Preferences | Best Legato Using Controller. The instruments in 9. Notation all use CC#68 as legato controller (slurs) and they allow you to set sustain / sostenuto pedal mode (sets CC#64 operation) in the GPO player | Options to be Normal sustain. The folders numbered 1-8 use CC#64 instead of CC#68 for legato, and they need sustain / sostenuto pedal mode to be MIDI Switch or MIDI Controller or Normal+MIDI Switch to reach the legato layer.

[Nickie Fønshauge]

keyswitches in DP are simply notes in the midi track, I'm not sure why they would not work.

Maybe because the cello was loaded from 9. Notation with it's Unified KeySwitches in Finale and from 7. Solo Strings with its non-unified KeySwitches in DP (or vice versa).

[daerp@mac.com]

Thanks Dan, Here is what I meant. The switching from pizz to arco and vice versa was working in Finale and appears to be the only info lost when I exported the file as a MIDI file and now am fine tuning it in DP. Of course adding the controller information (in the event list, right) is not a problem. I was just curious why the KS info wasn't preserved when I went from Finale to MIDI file (for DP).
On the second question: Once I open the midi file exported from Finale, all the faders in the mixer are set at max. If I draw each fader down to the the bottom and then back to where I want them, the levels nearly double from their original. In other words, I have to do this for each fader before I have complete control of the dynamic range for each instrument. It is quirky to say the least. I've read (in other places on the forum) about similar issues re mod wheel operation in some set ups. I find this in mine as well.

Hope that clarifies my questions.

Thanks,
Paul


keyswitches in DP are simply notes in the midi track, I'm not sure why they would not work.


There really is no such thing as "proper levels", that would depend on the mix (balance) that you want. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by having to "zero" all the faders in DP's mixing board, since they are set to zero by default when a new audio track is loaded.

I'm not sure I was much help,.... sorry. ;)
Dan

[daerp@mac.com]

Nickie, Thank you.
The folder question is now clearer. I do understand that separate controller info needs to be added in order to use the non-notation version of the sounds. Is the way to get the controller info into the Finale file, to create NEW expressions with this controller info? I haven't found any existing ones that trigger the correct result. Again thanks for your help.
Paul


The folder I refer to, is the one called 9. Notation in the GPO player v.1.1.8.3. The CC#68 is a setting in Finale | Playback Settings | Human Playback Preferences | Best Legato Using Controller. The instruments in 9. Notation all use CC#68 as legato controller (slurs) and they allow you to set sustain / sostenuto pedal mode (sets CC#64 operation) in the GPO player | Options to be Normal sustain. The folders numbered 1-8 use CC#64 instead of CC#68 for legato, and they need sustain / sostenuto pedal mode to be MIDI Switch or MIDI Controller or Normal+MIDI Switch to reach the legato layer.

[Nickie Fønshauge]

Depends on which controller you mean. CC#64 on/off MIDI messages are automatically generated by slurs when you use HP (and Best legato using controller 64). CC#20-23 messages are not taken care of by HP, I think. To get those, you need to define text expressions with the proper playback settings. The same goes for CC#64, if you don't use HP.