Ideas for a bundle to get someone started wokring with midi and sample?

[Jake Johnson]

My son is interested in getting involved with samples and midi, and I'm not sure of the best direction to go in. He has a keyboard that will send and receive midi, so he just needs a soundcard, a sequencer, and some starter sounds--he wants to be able to play most orchestral instruments and I want him to have a good piano.

So I'm thinking of getting him the M-Audio Audiophile 23/96 card, a copy of GPO, and maybe Han's new piano.

So I have four questions:

1. He's just turned 15, and has no experience with midi. Is this overkill? Will it just confuse him, trying to learn it all by getting hit with it all at once? (But is there any other way?)

2. Any better suggestions for a starter setup?

3. Has anyone heard\read of any companies offering bundles of a decent soundcard with a sequencer and some sounds?

4. Is the sequencer that comes with GPO decent? Does it display notation? Is is straightforward to learn the basics of? (As in, find the vst instruments fast, click one button to start to record, another to rewind, etc? I don't want to get him lost with a program where the features--to me, still--require too much clicking to find, as in Logic.)

Thanks for any suggestions and experience to share about introducing a 15 year old to all of this. (Of course, he'll probably run through it all and be showing me things I never knew in a week...)

[Joseph Burrell]

You could also go for the new Emu/MSO bundle. It comes with Cubase LE, Sonar LE, Overture 4 SE (notation) and a bunch of other stuff, a soundcard, and the MSO orchesta library.

There's new demos up since there was some controversy with the first batch.

They're here:

http://www.alexuniv.com/tools/mso.shtml

The small bundle (with the Emu 0404 card) is $399. A steal when you consider all that's in the box.

[Hardy Heern]

You could also go for the new Emu/MSO bundle. It comes with Cubase LE, Sonar LE, Overture 4 SE (notation) and a bunch of other stuff, a soundcard, and the MSO orchesta library.

There's new demos up since there was some controversy with the first batch.

They're here:

http://www.alexuniv.com/tools/mso.shtml

The small bundle (with the Emu 0404 card) is $399. A steal when you consider all that's in the box.

That's what sprang to my mind too Joseph! :)

Frank

[linwood]

I think you're right in that he'll master the thing much faster than us guys. It's amazing what youth will do for you. I got my son going right about that age. He works on a PC and uses Cubase, I'm on a mac and use dp. We're still able to work on things together. He plays guitar and sings and I'm a hack. It's really been a lot of fun for the two of us. I even give him jingles to do for me sometimes. If I get one that I know he can burn on, I give it to him to write/produce so he can make money writing. He was a computer science major his first two years, but switched to music composition this year. We have such a great relationship because of the music thing. In fact, he and I are going to see McCartney tonight. oh..and we just finished his first Cd and it rawks. He's 21 now. So... to answer your question..if he has a mac, I wouldn't be afraid to put DP or Logic on it for him. Get him a smokin' set up. It'll be the best investment you'll ever make.

[cptexas]

1. He's just turned 15, and has no experience with midi. Is this overkill? Will it just confuse him, trying to learn it all by getting hit with it all at once? (But is there any other way?)

2. Any better suggestions for a starter setup?

3. Has anyone heard\read of any companies offering bundles of a decent soundcard with a sequencer and some sounds?

4. Is the sequencer that comes with GPO decent? Does it display notation? Is is straightforward to learn the basics of? (As in, find the vst instruments fast, click one button to start to record, another to rewind, etc? I don't want to get him lost with a program where the features--to me, still--require too much clicking to find, as in Logic.)
1. I'm 15 and started learning MIDI at 12. I think he'll be OK. Everything's pretty logical. :)

2. I also have GPO as well as the PMI piano magic and Gigastudio. I'm very happy with GPO and highly recomend it.

3. OK, can't help you there.

4. Cubasis really isn't that great. A good, simple sequencer that I really like is Cakewalk Music Creator. It doesn't support VST, only DXi, but that's where I learned the basics. It's also cheap. :D Cubasis really confuses me, though. I don't know why. Cakewalk MC just seems more logical to me, but that's just me and I learned everything I know about MIDI from MC.

Hope this helps,
-Chris

[ohernie]

FYI: Cakewalk has a purchase & download VST adapter that works quite well.

Ernie

[Quasar]

I don't know what you mean by "decent" sound card, and this may be too primitive for you, but Creative's blasterkey is only $100, and got a good review here (http://www..com/tech/midi/articles/010100/blasterkeymp3.shtml)

[Jake Johnson]

By decent only meant as good as the Audiophile 24/96. Something that predicatbly record and playback and let him monitor the sound.

I worry about the software, more. Seems that there are so many choices out there. I'm tempted by one of the Emu products, just because they offer the card, the sampler, and the sounds all in one box. Would greatly simplify things, though I'd still need to get a sequencer. On the other hand, the Emu system isn't well known, and he would have to translate most of the major libraries to use them. (So it may be better to rely on VSTI's for him to begin with.)

[peter269]

By decent only meant as good as the Audiophile 24/96. Something that predicatbly record and playback and let him monitor the sound.

I worry about the software, more. Seems that there are so many choices out there. I'm tempted by one of the Emu products, just because they offer the card, the sampler, and the sounds all in one box. Would greatly simplify things, though I'd still need to get a sequencer. On the other hand, the Emu system isn't well known, and he would have to translate most of the major libraries to use them. (So it may be better to rely on VSTI's for him to begin with.)

Jake, I co-produced this library, so I'm going to answer some of your questions. Start here:

http://www.alexuniv.com/tools/mso.shtml

The $399 package comes with the audio card (0404), the MSO, AND Cubase LE (not Cubasis which is a weaker program), Sonar LE, and special edition of Overture 4 where we have a bank of sounds programmed to work specifically with that package. You also get Wavelab lite. So in one package for $399 you get everything needed to record, edit and and burn your music to CD.

Thus, to respond to your question, you get TWO (2) sequencing programs. Since you can also sequence with Overture, you actually get THREE (3) sequencing programs.

There is an upgrade path from Cubase LE to the larger Cubase program through Yamaha/Steinberg directly. You can also upgrade up to the full version of Overture 4.

ALL the software companies are required to give tech support on their own products.

As for E-MU itself? E-MU is VERY well known, having really been the pathfinder for the whole sampling movement. They're best known for their E4s and Proteus units. Previously hardware units, they've now made the move to these "virtual" software versions, but to maintain audio consistency, package their own sound cards.

The price is low, because E-MU Proteus units have always been known for value pricing. However, this is a fully professional sounding library. The first group of demos prepared for AES are now online at the link above and more are coming.

For importing, EmulatorX, ProteusX imports GigaStudio very well. I had no problems importing VSL and it sounding great.

If you have more questions, feel free to PM me. Also, if you go to the E-MU site you can read the reviews on the audio cards which are all excellent. Don't be fooled by the low price. These are first rate, studio quality audio cards with a pair of audio outs and MIDI INS.

This is a total self-contained package.

[Jake Johnson]

Thanks for the information. I'm lsitening to the MSO demos as i write this. Very nice sound.

I didn't mean to pretend ignorance about Emu. I'm aware that they've been around for quite some time. (I do have some gripes there, though: they bought off Ensoniq and killed it. What I really would love to have right now is basically an Ensoniq ZR-76 with a 300 gig hard disk that would let me load samples on it. Still one of the best keyboards I've ever played in terms of layout and logic.)
But I digress.

All I intended was that not any people are currently using the Emu sampling system, and it would therefore be harder for him (and me) to find solutions to problems and learn about new software. I worry about always having to translate libraries, too. The results are sometimes unpredicatble.

In any case, thanks again for the information. This is a promising looking package (and an astonishing bargain, considering that it seems to come with the sound card, the sampler, the sounds for the sampler, the MSO, and the sequencers.) May well be the direction I go in.

[peter269]

Thanks for the information. I'm lsitening to the MSO demos as i write this. Very nice sound.

I didn't mean to pretend ignorance about Emu. I'm aware that they've been around for quite some time. (I do have some gripes there, though: they bought off Ensoniq and killed it. What I really would love to have right now is basically an Ensoniq ZR-76 with a 300 gig hard disk that would let me load samples on it. Still one of the best keyboards I've ever played in terms of layout and logic.)
But I digress.

All I intended was that not any people are currently using the Emu sampling system, and it would therefore be harder for him (and me) to find solutions to problems and learn about new software. I worry about always having to translate libraries, too. The results are sometimes unpredicatble.

In any case, thanks again for the information. This is a promising looking package (and an astonishing bargain, considering that it seems to come with the sound card, the sampler, the sounds for the sampler, the MSO, and the sequencers.) May well be the direction I go in.

Thanks for the comment on MSO. Greatly appreciated. Some points.

1. Creative Labs, not E-MU, bought Ensoniq.

2. The E-MU sampling system (EmulatorX) is in wider use than you may be aware. There's plenty of support for it with a forum at E-MU, tech support, and I may set up a separate forum at Alexander Publishing. So, yes, there will be plenty of support.

3. Library importation is iffy on every platform because it depends both on the importation scheme developed by the sampler company and how dense on the native platform the sample(s) was programmed that you want to import.

[GlassPearlPlayer]

So I'm thinking of getting him the M-Audio Audiophile 23/96 card, a copy of GPO, and maybe Han's new piano.

So I have four questions:

4. Is the sequencer that comes with GPO decent? Does it display notation? Is is straightforward to learn the basics of? (As in, find the vst instruments fast, click one button to start to record, another to rewind, etc? I don't want to get him lost with a program where the features--to me, still--require too much clicking to find, as in Logic.)


I did exactly that: Delta card and GPO. And it is all that was needed. I looked especially to the EMU, but Delta has a great reputation in continuing platform support. My Delta 44 is now nearly 5 years old and worked everywhere: MAC, WinXP, Linux. I had an emu laptop card, where the driver supoort was dropped after one year. With my next laptop, i had to throw it away. So no trust in that one anymore.
But GPO: The sweet thing (for me) is Overture and GPO. I hate logic, get lost in clicking through cubasis. But to do serious working, especially for a beginner who is new to instrumentation and composing, GPO and Overture is simply fantastic. Overture is picture perfect Notation and one of the best MIDI control facilities for a scoring program. I had a steep learning curve and to overcome some frustration, but listening to the GPO Demos showed me what was possibly and kept me going on. And if you still have sequencing to do: cubasis is good, and really enough for the first year.
Top combination. Go for it.