Ave Maria

[gugliel]

now history ...

[mbmb]

yeah...it sounds a bit different to the one i know

but a great effort anyway;)

[Lunatique]

I've heard just about everything you've ever posted in forums, and your music always makes me feel that although they are given consideration mathematically and are unique in the unconventional approach, they convey not much else. I never catch any hint of emotion expressed--just dry exercises in harmony or orchestration that stretches on and on without any real development in melody or evolution in an emotional journey. I've read negative critiques from others about your music on these forums (some outright insulting you as a musician and stating your complete lack of talent), and you never seem to respond to them--be it to acknowledge their validity, or to disagree. You just keep on doing your own thing--which is an admirable thing, as you only need to please yourself, and as long as you enjoy and love making music, that's all that should matter. However, I'm slightly curious as to how it seems you are completely unaffected by what others say. Most people wouldn't be able to do that.

[jeffn1]

I've heard just about everything you've ever posted in forums, and your music always makes me feel that although they are given consideration mathematically and are unique in the unconventional approach, they convey not much else. I never catch any hint of emotion expressed--just dry exercises in harmony or orchestration that stretches on and on without any real development in melody or evolution in an emotional journey. I've read negative critiques from others about your music on these forums (some outright insulting you as a musician and stating your complete lack of talent), and you never seem to respond to them--be it to acknowledge their validity, or to disagree. You just keep on doing your own thing--which is an admirable thing, as you only need to please yourself, and as long as you enjoy and love making music, that's all that should matter. However, I'm slightly curious as to how it seems you are completely unaffected by what others say. Most people wouldn't be able to do that.

Whew, now there's a back-handed compliment. :)

jeffn1

[gugliel]

moving on ...

[beach]

Gugliel,
this piece is very good! Unfortuntely many people seems to look only at the quality in which the sample libraries sound. Never spending a word for the quality of the composition. The harmony, the counterpoint etc...
Your music is top quality material made of. Your stuff is admirable!!
I really enjoy this one, and I think that if it will be performed by a real choir and not by a computer it will sounds magnificent!!!

Best to you,
Roberto

[gugliel]

Thank you, Beach, for encouragement!

Though, for me, this is an extremely emotional piece, there is also an element of experimentalism in it ala lunatk -- the modulations from G major to Ab minor result in a very large pitch shift -- 8 shifts flat, to be precise -- maybe ears that are enslaved to equal temperament simply hear things as mad-scientist-flat, rather than as an expressive device to heighten the form and to pull tears from sad eyes.

As a re-make, took out the pitch changes, so its all presently posted back into equal temperament.

[Hermitage59]

Gugliel,
I thoroughly enjoyed this, and i have to say, your sense of counterpoint and harmony, as has been noted, is excellent. There are one or two places where the vocal chord transition seemed a little abrupt, but i suspect this is more to do with sample start/ finish than anything else.
I also found a couple of sudden louder notes from the soprano (contralto?) that were a fraction disconcerting, but again, i suspect this a samplehandling issue and not a reflection of your musical ability (Which i always found to be good).

Well done.
And if you ever decide to redo this with string orchestra instead of voice, please let me know, as i think for strings this would be excellent.

My respects and regards,

Alex.

[FredProgGH]

I think this is a very nice piece! As one who is perhaps not a total slave to equal-temperment or traditional 12-tone scales but certainly more of a traditionalist than you when it comes to interpreting pitch I won't get into those arguments. :D But I do like this, definitely, and I think you made a very good representation of it given the current state-of-the-art in sampled singing.

[jc5]

A very strong piece, in live performance this would make a strong impact.

It should be borne in mind, that it is a very bold thing to do to post an a capella choral work done with samples, as the library that can bear that sort of exposed work does not yet exist!

[FredProgGH]

A very strong piece, in live performance this would make a strong impact.

It should be borne in mind, that it is a very bold thing to do to post an a capella choral work done with samples, as the library that can bear that sort of exposed work does not yet exist!
Yes, precisely!

[gugliel]

moving on ..

[Lunatique]

(until lunatique strikes again..)

I'm not allowed to comment on your threads anymore, remember?

All the other forums I participate in (photography, computer graphics, painting), people are generally brutally honest about their opinions, and they expect nothing less from each other, because that's what helps everyone in the long run. If you think what I posted was "vindictive," then you've probably never been to any of the forums I go to. I don't know you as a person, so it's not personal, and I actually gave you a compliment (just not on your music), but you'd rather see my post as some kind of violent aggression against you as a person. If you can't handle negative comments without sugarcoating and only want to hear polite compliments, how's that going to help you in the long run? As an artist, I've have had people tell me that I can't draw and I have no talent, but that didn't stop me. I listened to their brutal honesty with sincerity, because I wanted to find out what it is about my work that makes them react that way. In the end, I benefitted FAR more from those negative criticisms than I ever did from the raving compliments.

[gugliel]

lunatique, if there's nothing personal that I don't know about, and nothing weird in your reasons to attack my postings, please go ahead and be honest.

[Lunatique]

gugliel - Definitely nothing personal. You seem like a nice guy, so why would I have anything against you?

I've told you my feelings about your music before, but if you want me to elaborate, I can. In general, I just don't have any emotional reaction when I listen to your pieces (this is not specifically about this Ave Maria piece, but all of your music available on the internet I've heard). They seem to be composed and arranged with a strong concern for technicality, and while you do know your music theory, and you do apply them to your pieces, they remind me of highly intricate but abstract paintings that no one really understands, but the artists himself will point to various parts and explain in detail what each represents, and what he tried to express with his painting.

I don't know if it's the manner in which you express yourself that makes it hard for me to read any emotional content, or if what you tried to express wasn't emotional content in the first place. What if it's similar to the situation where a guy tried hard to express his feelings for a girl, but she never caught on and always thought he was just being a good friend, and the guy would be flabbergasted and say, "All this time, all the signs, the things I did, the affection I showed you--didn't you pick up on any of it?" The girl would shrug and say, "Nope, I never noticed anything--maybe you're way too subtle with the way you express yourself, or maybe you just show your feelings in such a way that only you yourself could understand?"

I do listen to a lot of "mathematical" type of music (progressive rock and avant-garde, for example), but even with those, I could always see what the "point" of the pieces were. There were always some type of clear, driving force behind the music. I can't feel that when I listen to your music. I can't feel your reason for making them, and I can't see what you aimed to achieve or hoped your audience will get out of them. They mostly just feel like dry, technical exercises in orchestration--aimless, emotionless, with no relevant emphasis or pacing.

I've never heard any melody of yours that actually resolved itself at some point--they just kind of go on and on, with no resolution, no purpose in expression, and often you'd have percussion parts that just happen at random, and they always feel out of place, disturbed the pacing, and don't work together with the rest of the orchestra. The way you use the sample libraries also often make them sound a lot more fake than they are actually capable of. Often I hear synthy sounds in your pieces that considering the libraries you own, should not sound synthy at all.

When you post your stuff, you do get people complimenting you on unique approaches to harmony or ther technical efforts, but has anyone ever actually commented on the emotions of the pieces? I don't think I've seen any, and I think the reasons are because of the comments I made above.

Anyway, I'm not a classically trained composer, and I'm certainly not accomplished as a musician, but I listen to a very wide range of music styles, and I think in general I am a very sharp guy when it comes to "getting" the point of any piece of music--even the experimental stuff. Somehow, I just can't "get" your music. Of course, I hear plenty of music posted on the internet that I don't care for, and wouldn't bother commenting on, but I feel compelled to comment on yours because you obviously have the necessary knowledge of music theory, and you do know how to compose and arrange--but something just isn't "right" (this could be subjective taste), and when listening to your stuff, I feel frustrated as hell because I can't help but wonder why anyone who with the knowledge you have would compose the way you do. This might sound weird, but your music just sounds "wrong" to me, and I keep thinking that maybe you'll realize it one day and compose something that feels "right." I'm not talking about right in the conventional "follow the herd and be a sheep" way--I'm talking about the way the pieces are expressed and executed. I really don't know how to explain it any better than this.

Of course, this is all just my humble opinion, and like I said, could be all just subjective and none of it valid. If you feel that I'm the one that just "don't get it," then by all means ignore all that I've said.

To tell you the truth, I don't know why I care. I guess it's like watching a dancer who definitely has the moves and the chops, but he's dancing to a choreography that just doen't do anything for him or the audience. I just want to say something so that the dancer would realize it and start dancing to a much better choreography--then we can all watch this dancer shine on stage and kick some real ~~~.

[gugliel]

moving on ...

[Lunatique]

Yes, I've listened to it twice now--once when you first posted it, and again just now. I'm sorry but my feelings are still the same. The melodies feel incoherant, and the harmonies seem without purpose, while the way you use the sample libraries make them sound synthetic and random. To my ears, it's not about not writing conventional melodies (hell, I love Stravinsky's Rite of Spring), it's more than that--from the arrangement to the way the harmonies move and evolve, to the way the samples are used..etc. I guess my subject taste is just very different from yours. Like I said in the first post--as long as you love and enjoy what you do, it really doesn't matter what others think.

There will always be times when we completely disagree with the critiques that others give us, and this is one of those times for you--where you love your own music and feel that I'm the one that just doesn't "get it." That's fine--different strokes for different folks. I respect your position, and let's just live and let live. :)