How to make a melody scary?

[IOComposer]

I'm working on a horror film right now. The director is insisting on a concrete defining melody for the main theme except every time I write something "melodic" it detracts from the scariness of the deep, brooding durges that I'm writing and lightens it up and makes it much more "enjoyable" which is exactly what I don't want. How do you guys write/orchestrate a melody within a piece that's supposed to be totally dark/intense? Can you think of any examples where this is done successfully in contemporary horror scores?

TIA,
Jamey

[belbin]

Chromaticism!! Dissonance! Pause for everyone to go, "Well, Duuuhhh!"
If it's within the director's requirements, score it for medium-to-low range instruments as the core, with optional "scream (violins/flutes/piccolo)" octave doublings.

I have a short mp3 I created recently which re-asserted my belief in these devices as basic building blocks of "Scary" music. I've no webspace, but if you'd like to hear it, drop me a pm.

Good luck,
Belbin

[Cobalt Katze]

One idea is perhaps to not think about the musical content of the melody in question, but how it's presented. i.e. taking the melody and juxtaposing it on top of something else that throws the "enjoyability" part out the window since it would be somewhat jarring and creepy. Just something to think about. Identify what about the movie is so frightening and apply that to your melody. I agree though, that melodies in general are somewhat difficult to make "scary" without either being enjoyable or cheesy.

[PaulR]

Can you think of any examples where this is done successfully in contemporary horror scores?
TIA,
Jamey

Think Herrmann - and forget about melodies Jamey.

[Hermitage59]

Think Herrmann - and forget about melodies Jamey.

Exactly.

Try Vertigo, Psycho, etc. (Hitchcock)
And the score to Psycho proves you can be scary with a rhythm, and not just broody low notes, which can 'wear off quickly' and sound very funereal in a short time. (Jaws, another good example)

You'll only need a couple of listens to get the idea. Great musical picture painting without complicated orchestration.

Alex.

[Theodor]

I was watching another "____ OF THE DEAD" movie the other day (Can't remember which one).

There were a lot of low dissonant pads, like chromatic cello+bass tremolos and scratches with a lot of huge reverb. So, sound textures, weird ambient dissonant pads but they were staying in the background and not taking over the sound.

Lots of high strings, non vibrato... cold strings with a thin sound. Like Sul ponticelo. Sometimes they got dissonant. The volume would go up in the scary and tense parts and perhaps some of the bass instruments would kick in when there was a climax.

Use percussions here and there with a very fast attack. Fast attack percs are scary out of the blue. Compress, limit, put some bass and reverb. Make them biiig!

what else........ you could change natural voice sounds with lots of effects. For example you could take a female scream and put so many effects like reverbs and delays that it won't sound like a scream no more. But the feeling will be there somehow.

And use intervals that are the same as B to F . A tritone or something

[RiffWraith]

IMHO, a good example of dark, forboding, scary melody that actualy has a good rhythm as well, is the theme to the original 'Halloween'.

--edit-- another good example of the above description I gave - somewhat on the opposite end of the musical spectrum in a way, is the 'Jaws' theme.

[IOComposer]

Chromaticism!! Dissonance! Pause for everyone to go, "Well, Duuuhhh!"
If it's within the director's requirements, score it for medium-to-low range instruments as the core, with optional "scream (violins/flutes/piccolo)" octave doublings.


Hmm. I couldn't think of anything possibly less scary than flutes and piccolos. Here's the trick...in this particular case, the strings are all very busy with the rhythm and background (very chromatic and dissonant) which is unanimously adored by all involved, so I don't really have strings playing melodies as an option. Right now I have a piano banging out this melody in octaves and it sounds pretty good because it makes it more of a percussive effect but still gives it a melodic flavor. There's still something about it that makes me think "isn't that lovely", which ain't cool.

I'm more looking for cited examples of melodies in modern horror films, if anyone can think of examples.

Thanks for the input.
-Jamey

[Tomke]

.. and not to forget: Fear usually has many "stages". There's the "sudden chock" fear of course, but everything else usually starts out by creeping up on you .. sort of "monster around the corner" feeling .. then there's a climactic moment and release. Thinking from that angle usually helps me to approach a solution for it.
I agree with many of the above. The more melodic the more harmonic, and harmonic means "in tune" .. it means things feel pretty much ok. The further away you go from harmonic, the more confusing and insecure it gets. Insecurity and confusion commands attention from the mind, just like fear does .. the minds needs a solution, it's looking for a way to solve the pattern, a way back into secure and comfortable again.

OAAHH :eek: !!

[JonFairhurst]

It sounds like the director wants a memorable theme, not necessarily a sing-along melody. Think Tubular Bells, or the opening notes to Saint Saen's Danse Macabre.

Then again, the theme for Young Frankenstein is melodic. It's also intensely expressive. Consider creating music from a key character's perspective. (The YF music portrayed the anguish of the monster.) And consider a live performer for the critical solo line. They may be able to show an edge that samples tend to hide.

-JF

[IOComposer]

I was watching another "____ OF THE DEAD" movie the other day (Can't remember which one).

There were a lot of low dissonant pads, like chromatic cello+bass tremolos and scratches with a lot of huge reverb. So, sound textures, weird ambient dissonant pads but they were staying in the background and not taking over the sound.

Lots of high strings, non vibrato... cold strings with a thin sound. Like Sul ponticelo. Sometimes they got dissonant. The volume would go up in the scary and tense parts and perhaps some of the bass instruments would kick in when there was a climax.

Use percussions here and there with a very fast attack. Fast attack percs are scary out of the blue. Compress, limit, put some bass and reverb. Make them biiig!

what else........ you could change natural voice sounds with lots of effects. For example you could take a female scream and put so many effects like reverbs and delays that it won't sound like a scream no more. But the feeling will be there somehow.

And use intervals that are the same as B to F . A tritone or something

Thank you for punctuating my intention so precisely! These are all ideas for scoring EFFECTS, which I'm all fulla. I'm starting to think that there aren't many examples of horror melodies.

Jaws is a perfect example as well. The du-dunh thing is horribly scary and it's considered the holy grail of the horror motif, however if you listen to the full orchestration, as soon as the main melodic theme comes in, it suddenly leaves "horrible" and enters "Oh, that's nice". Perfect example of a melody killing a vibe.

[John DeBorde]

well, there's always the possibility that a melodic theme is not appropriate in this case. there's no reason the "theme" can't be a rhythmic gesture or electronic texture or something non-melodic.

otherwise, think minor 2nds (and m9ths & M7ths) and tritones dude!

[IOComposer]

It sounds like the director wants a memorable theme, not necessarily a sing-along melody. Think Tubular Bells, or the opening notes to Saint Saen's Danse Macabre.

Then again, the theme for Young Frankenstein is melodic. It's also intensely expressive. Consider creating music from a key character's perspective. (The YF music portrayed the anguish of the monster.) And consider a live performer for the critical solo line. They may be able to show an edge that samples tend to hide.

-JF

Danse Macbre? Nothing even remotely scary about that for me.
I've not heard Young Frankenstein in many years. I'll try to look that up.
Thanks!
-Jamey

[dvincent]

Try The Omen - Goldsmith even had a love theme in it :)

For more modern check out some Shore scores like Panic Room. Although not melodic in the lyrical sense it has a couple themes and some variational development.

[PaulR]

Jaws is a perfect example as well. The du-dunh thing is horribly scary and it's considered the holy grail of the horror motif, however if you listen to the full orchestration, as soon as the main melodic theme comes in, it suddenly leaves "horrible" and enters "Oh, that's nice". Perfect example of a melody killing a vibe.

Stupid question Jamey - are you sure the director actually means 'melody'?

The opening Jaws score isn't really a melody - is it?

Edit: I sort of copied Panic Room once. :D

[Thomas_J]

Locrian mode, octatonic scales, wholetone scales, chromaticism, juxtaposition/contrasting parts, equal interval steps (in harmony progressions), polytonality, serialism/12-tone, detuning, odd time sigs, non vib, diads forming harmony, harmonics, inversion, retrospection ... you can listen to Herrmann, Schoenberg, Penderecki etc. to hear these things in action :) Good luck with the writing.

[IOComposer]

Try The Omen - Goldsmith even had a love theme in it :)

For more modern check out some Shore scores like Panic Room. Although not melodic in the lyrical sense it has a couple themes and some variational development.

Off to the video store...thanks!

[IOComposer]

Locrian mode, octatonic scales, wholetone scales, chromaticism, juxtaposition/contrasting parts, equal interval steps (in harmony progressions), polytonality, serialism/12-tone, detuning, odd time sigs, non vib, diads forming harmony, harmonics, inversion, retrospection ... you can listen to Herrmann, Schoenberg, Penderecki etc. to hear these things in action :) Good luck with the writing.

Ha! Been listening to a lot of Penderecki lately. I have been doing nice things with the harmony for effects but as far as creating a melody, it's just tough to do and keep it scary.

[IOComposer]

Stupid question Jamey - are you sure the director actually means 'melody'?


Well, I'm sort of discovering exactly what he means as time goes on. It's a new relationship, so I'm slowly learning to interpret his "director speak".
-Jamey

[Theodor]

Thank you for punctuating my intention so precisely!

Hey, your welcome Jamey!

[Mike Greene]

I don't think your melody even has to be scary.

As an example, let's suppose the film has a main character that is a child. Then you could have a little girl or maybe music box play "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" and alternate or else blend that with scary music. It's the juxtaposition of something comfortable with something scary that puts the listener on edge.

Or for a different example, there's "The Warriors" from about 1980. Remember at the end, the bad guy gang leader sings, "Warriors, come out and play-yay." Happy melody, but scary as heck! Put that exact meolody over a typical horror music bed and I think you'd have something pretty cool.

I applaud the director's request, by the way. Even with a scary melody, I recommend melody (I'll include rhythmic or other sound design riff "hooks" as melodies) over no melody. A theme that's your typical low string ebbs, flows, and sudden bang and sound effects is certainly scary, but it's generic and not somethinmg you'll be proud of five years from now.

If you do go scary with your melody, keep the phrases short. Play a slow 5-note phrase. Let a bar or two go by, then play the same 5-note phrase but end (the 5th note) on a different note. Simple as that. People will now remember your theme, but it's still scary.

Lead instrument doesn't have to be low strings or horns either. Penny whistle could be really cool if your setting is Ireland or the ocean or something. Or clarinet could play a nice pastoral melody or even dark melody and be completely effective. Heck, depending on the setting or main characters, ANY lead instrument could work.

- Mike Greene

[belbin]

Hmm. I couldn't think of anything possibly less scary than flutes and piccolos.

Hey, man! Never underestimate a flute and a piccolo, both in their high register, playing eerie harmonic intervals. Not satisfied? Make 'em Fluttertongue. Ever seen any of Speilbeg's "Taken"?
The winds carry more of an air of magic/mystery, but there's 20 hours worth of scoring Ideas there for your research.

Good luck.

Belbin

[belbin]

PS.

To specify something general someone else posted.....in terms of sudden percussive effects....ANVIL!
I also like Jon's suggestion of chimes. It comes with the same "Funeral" warning, but still has great potential.

Belbin

[IOComposer]

Ever seen any of Speilbeg's "Taken"?


No, I haven't. What is that? Williams music?

I'm not saying that they can't be scary in the right context, but anyway you slice it, flutes add a magical flavor when used in a dominantly dark ambient sound...at least the ones available as samples.

-Jamey

[noenoeil]

A musical box playing a lullaby can be truly scary. Well, "Singing in the rain" can be extremely scary (Clockwork Orange).

Once, a director asked us, after he listened to a war scene we wrote for one of his movies, to simply overdub our very dark and tense music with the happiest and lightest post-WWII song ever made in France : "Qu'est-ce qu'on attend pour être heureux" from Ray Ventura.
At first we all were very disappointed about directors as any composer would probably be (tonality match, ego wounds et al), but once we saw the result onscreen, our jaws fell on the floor. That was really darker and scarier than our music alone, which suddenly became a lot more interesting...

Counter effect and contrast works almost every time!

Christian

Edit : Mike, saw your post too late - it takes me years to write in English;)

[PeterRoos]

Check out Danny Elfman's Sleepy Hollow score. Simple melodic lines that convey a rather uneasy feeling throughout the movie. Then check out the orchestration.

[Ian Dorsch]

What about a solo string line of some sort to complement your scary string section? I'm thinking in particular of the harsh, angular fiddle line from James Newton Howard's 'Signs' theme. In fact, that whole score is an excellent example of creating scary rhythmic and melodic themes, most of them based upon a single three note cell. It's some very clever writing.

[Mike Greene]

A musical box playing a lullaby can be truly scary. Well, "Singing in the rain" can be extremely scary (Clockwork Orange).

Once, a director asked us, after he listened to a war scene we wrote for one of his movies, to simply overdub our very dark and tense music with the happiest and lightest post-WWII song ever made in France : "Qu'est-ce qu'on attend pour être heureux" from Ray Ventura.
At first we all were very disappointed about directors as any composer would probably be (tonality match, ego wounds et al), but once we saw the result onscreen, our jaws fell on the floor. That was really darker and scarier than our music alone, which suddenly became a lot more interesting...

Counter effect and contrast works almost every time!

Christian

Edit : Mike, saw your post too late - it takes me years to write in English;)That's a great story! First, because I completely agree about counter-effect and contrast. And second, because it reminds me of similar times when idiot directors or producers insist I do something musically which I, as the all-knowing expert, know is wrong . . . and dog gone it, it turns out they were right after all!

- Mike Greene

[Moonmusic]

I remember in the 80s when I was like 11 or 12 maybe? saw the first Nightmare on Elm street (not the other 10 stupid ones after that but the FIRST one)...It really freaked me out and that simple piano melody line stuck in my head for years!

[Nicholas Simpson]

Regarding flutes, they can be made to sound rather unsettling using fluttertonguing (as already mentioned). Another point to remember is that they can be disturbing in the range C4 - G4 - it's a veiled, breathy quality. Another option - consider using an alto or bass flute. Other suggestions - detune them by a few cents, or use pitch bend with them.

Any instrument can be used to demonstrate pretty much any mood - although funereal pennywhistles, and romantic solo timpani are a bit of a stretch... :D

In general, though, most of the more successful horror scores I've heard have tended motifs and repetition to create and maintain a scary effect. Carpenter's music for Halloween (which also uses some sort of percussion - can't remember what - to create an analog of the heartbeat). Therefore, melody could be shortened to motif, repeat it until the audience throws up and you are there.

One that bucks the trend is Nightmare on Elm Street - that definitely uses melody, with pretty traditional tonality. However, it is usually set over a less tonal background (from memory). Pretty effective (although a bit synthy to today's ears)...

[JonFairhurst]

Danse Macbre? Nothing even remotely scary about that for me.True. But it's a very recognizable/unforgettable theme.


I've not heard Young Frankenstein in many years. I'll try to look that up.It isn't really scary either. It's more melancholy, which matches the story of the monster. He's more tragic than scary. But it's also very memorable.

The problem with most scary music is that it's so full of clichès. Hopefully you can find a unique angle that allows your theme to stand out.

-JF

[IOComposer]

Thanks for the pointers, folks. I'm watching Panic Room right now. Good stuff!

Jon- yeah man. I totally hear you. My first approach was non-derivative in that I didn't have anything specifically in mind when writing it and it doesn't sound like anything else that I'm aware of...well, it sounds a lot like my other music ;)

Trying to keep it that way, but kinda stuck on the melody thing at the moment.

[PaulR]

Thanks for the pointers, folks. I'm watching Panic Room right now. Good stuff!

Jon- yeah man. I totally hear you. My first approach was non-derivative in that I didn't have anything specifically in mind when writing it and it doesn't sound like anything else that I'm aware of...well, it sounds a lot like my other music ;)

Trying to keep it that way, but kinda stuck on the melody thing at the moment.

You notice they borrowed the opening titles from North by North West? And there's no melody in the short cue that accompanies the opening title shots.

;)

[belbin]

No, I haven't. What is that? Williams music?

I'm not saying that they can't be scary in the right context, but anyway you slice it, flutes add a magical flavor when used in a dominantly dark ambient sound...at least the ones available as samples.

-Jamey

Yeah, and now that you mention it, Taken is not a horror story. It's about alien abductions, and has some scry parts, so I think it would still help to check out. I don't know who scored it, but I'm sure it's not williams. I know because there's no composer credited ANYWHERE except the end titles. It was a joint CBC/Speilberg production, so I'd say it's some obscure Canadian Composer (not knocking canadian composers-I am one:D ).

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0289830/
http://www.scifi.com/taken/index_flash.html

Enjoy!
Belbin

[dvincent]

You notice they borrowed the opening titles from North by North West? And there's no melody in the short cue that accompanies the opening title shots.

;)

If you're going to "borrow" take it from the best! :)

I don't have the OST on me right now, but I believe the titles of Panic Room starts with a slow acending arpeggio figures in the low strings and low brass before moving on to an ostinato figure (and a really nice bass pizz line:cool: ). The "melody" isn't "lyrical" but it is a melody none-the-less.

[belbin]

Sorry about the mis-spelling, Mr Spielberg.:o

-Belbin

[KC]

Yeah, and now that you mention it, Taken is not a horror story. It's about alien abductions, and has some scry parts, so I think it would still help to check out. I don't know who scored it, but I'm sure it's not williams. I know because there's no composer credited ANYWHERE except the end titles. It was a joint CBC/Speilberg production, so I'd say it's some obscure Canadian Composer (not knocking canadian composers-I am one:D ).

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0289830/
http://www.scifi.com/taken/index_flash.html

Enjoy!
Belbin

The composer was Laura Karpman.

Best,

Kaveh

www.kavehcohen.com

[ohernie]

Diminished scales, screech trumpet ...
:D

Ernie

[Briody]

I'll go a totally different direction with my suggestion -

Listen to some Goblin, the Italian masters of horror soundtracks. Thier music is typically synth-based rock, but thier themes work very well with horror.

I would also listen to the Einsturzende Neubauten track 'Armenia'. This is one of the most chilling and unsettling pieces of music I have ever heard.

Good luck.

Mark

[FredProgGH]

I don't think your melody even has to be scary.

As an example, let's suppose the film has a main character that is a child. Then you could have a little girl or maybe music box play "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" and alternate or else blend that with scary music. It's the juxtaposition of something comfortable with something scary that puts the listener on edge.


You beat me to it. For me the essence of horror is to make the familiar wrong, and it can be very subtle. Like looking at someone from a distance and then realizing their left eye is upside-down. Or their teeth are just a bit too sharp. my guide to scary music is to write normal music and then gently f$%k it up. Add a wrong note here and there. a bad harmony and a low bass drone that isn't right.

[IOComposer]

I would also listen to the Einsturzende Neubauten track 'Armenia'. This is one of the most chilling and unsettling pieces of music I have ever heard.


Agreed. It's totally f**ed up. :)
-Jamey

[PaulR]

If you're going to "borrow" take it from the best! :)

I don't have the OST on me right now, but I believe the titles of Panic Room starts with a slow acending arpeggio figures in the low strings and low brass before moving on to an ostinato figure (and a really nice bass pizz line:cool: ). The "melody" isn't "lyrical" but it is a melody none-the-less.

You're right - but it soesn't sound_like_a_melody. That's the point.

Course, the ultimate horror score is Psycho - but who can do that? ;)

[JonFairhurst]

Course, the ultimate horror score is Psycho - but who can do that? ;)It was fresh in the '50s, and still sounds great in context. Unfortunately, the stabbing violins are a clichè when applied to new works. It's great for parodies though!

-JF

[belbin]

The composer was Laura Karpman.

Best,

Kaveh

www.kavehcohen.com

Thanks for that! I hope she was well paid. Awesome scoring. I'd say the back-end money was pretty good regardless.

Belbin

[PaulR]

It was fresh in the '50s, and still sounds great in context. Unfortunately, the stabbing violins are a clichè when applied to new works. It's great for parodies though!

-JF

1960 actually. ;)

Cliche today yes. But that's only because nobody has any idea today of (a) what they're dealing with and (b) how to do it.

It's been unsucessfully copied that many times between then and now - of course it's it's cliche. It's the ultimate. because the film is the ultimate in that horror stlye genre - Christ, the trailer is better than most horror films today.

We're talking about Herrmann here - not some half-a@@ed tossers that think they can write.

:D

[noenoeil]

1960 actually. ;)

Cliche today yes. But that's only because nobody has any idea today of (a) what they're dealing with and (b) how to do it.

It's been unsucessfully copied that many times between then and now - of course it's it's cliche. It's the ultimate. because the film is the ultimate in that horror stlye genre - Christ, the trailer is better than most horror films today.

We're talking about Herrmann here - not some half-a@@ed tossers that think they can write.

:D
Look at Paul's writing for example. It appears normal at first but suddenly - there are dashes - everywhere. Now that is scary!

(a) Christian :D

[PaulR]

Look at Paul's writing for example. It appears normal at first but suddenly - there are dashes - everywhere. Now that is scary!

(a) Christian :D

I explained all that - you - may - remember - Christian.

:D

[FredProgGH]

I explained all that - you - may - remember - Christian.

:D

It's a Shatner impersonation?? :confused:

[IOComposer]

Bringing this one back from the dead...

So this score is done and the movie is currently the target of huge Hollywood bidding war. MANY major studios trying to purchase/distribute the film...and with good reason; it turned out extremely well.

Interestingly, the score became much less about composition as it did about tone and timbre. In fact, I would say that by and large, it's not really what you would consider a musical effort as much as it is a sound composition. Good thing I'm a sound designer, cuz I don't think a typical composer could have hung on to this gig. There are very very few traces of what you could consider a "melody" in this film by design. More like harsh and dirty textures. Though, a lot of the action scenes started out as orchestral but sort of morphed into a much heavier, rock thing with guitars and the whole bit.

You can hear examples of the action music in the film's trailer, which I also did sound design for and mixed:

http://through-the-heart.com/video/ATTR.mov

Check it out!
-Jamey

[John DeBorde]

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thread lives everyone!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!!


if we make it to the car, i call "shotgun"...

8-P

[PaulR]

I just watched a complete fiasco called Secret Window. John Cage CANNOT write scary music!

Unfortunately I can't see this trailer Jamie - but I can hear it.

Edit: Or even Philip Glass. :D

[Hermitage59]

Hmmm. What about a simple repetitive minor third, played very quietly by a horn and oboe in octaves. Along the lines of 'Arnie's gonna get ya, Arnie''s gonna get ya.'

Put it over a semitone minum movement somewhere down near C to Csharp in the bass clef played by a solo cello. Let em clash.


Alex.

[Steve_Karl]

Never mind! I'm glad it's finished!

[Sean Beeson]

You could always take the "mysteriously" creepy path as well. Much like the theme from the Halloween series.

Sean Beeson

[Bruce A. Richardson]

I just watched a complete fiasco called Secret Window. John Cage CANNOT write scary music!

Ironically, I'm about to head off to set up for a gig where we're playing some John Cage and Stockhausen works. It's interesting to do this, because it reminds me that what Cage was essentially trying to do is get people to improvise, to play realtime music. The score for one of the pieces is simply a block of text. For another, it's a set of clear acetate sheets with shapes in different types of lines (dotted, dashed, solid, etc.). You choose a set of sheets, stack them, put them on an overhead projector, then play their "shapes" according to the values which are assigned to them (dotted line=pitch, others amplitude, etc.).

It's interesting that we're seeing these shapes all the time as producers today, when we edit MIDI, for instance, or when we use envelope based synthesis tools in environments like Reaktor.

So, Cage was actually ahead of his time in many ways. For me, personally, it's a reminder that in our particular performance group, we have taken the musical ideas of Cage to their obvious ends. So much so that this weekend's concert seems strangely restrictive musically--that we are even bound by a paragraph of instructions seems at times to be a barrier to creating music that is completely of the moment in time.

One of the pieces is a little different, though. We're doing Twelve Radios, which is notated almost traditionally, but of course, the instrumentation is twelve radios. We got together a couple of nights ago just to talk through the piece, and to experiment a little with the textures, and it's actually a lot of fun...and an interesting challenge technically. In what is probably the best Cageian joke of the piece, the notation appears to be almost traditional, until you actually start reading and realize that although the piece is in 4/4 time, most of the bars have a different number of beats in them. So, there again, you get this riddle thrown at you as a performer--things aren't as they seem, so how do you deal with that in an attempt to create a piece with integrity? And ultimately, is Cage just telling us to trust our ears?

[PaulR]

Ironically, I'm about to head off to set up for a gig where we're playing some John Cage and Stockhausen works.

Interesting Bruce and let us know how it goes. Sorry - it was Phillip Glass and not John Cage. Brainfart!