639-Year-Long Organ Piece

[etLux]

And they thought Mahler rambled on too much?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060105/od_afp/afpentertainmentgermany_060105161213

David
www.DavidSosnowski.com
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[Cobalt Katze]

I love Cage, that's hilarious :D Even more insane than Satie's Vexations.

[vic_france]

I wonder if he's using quantize? :p

[etLux]

Good thing it wasn't a flute piece.

[valhalx]

I guess the Ring of the Nibelung will have to take a back seat now as "longest ever". How many generations does that entail? Just think...it'll be half a millenium before we can even think about the coda.

[Jonny Lost]

I'm not sure I can hold it that long!! I may have to go to the restroom before intermission!!!!


:D


Jonny

[FredProgGH]

The law of averages pretty much predicts that there will be an interruption in the continuity of this performance at some point (possibly do to a power outage, or perhaps deliberate sabotage). The question is, will they pick up where it left off, or start over?? :D

[Cataclysm]

Yeah, you'd think Cage's ASLSP organ piece immediately. I don't think he had intentionally made it to last that long though... *shrugs*

It'd be much harder on a piano wouldn't it?

[Fabio]

The only serious meaning of news like that is IMHO, the 1st of April announcement...

The article that seems to be serious, and you understand is crazy only because of the absurdity of the content. More funny if it let you doubt for a while "may be it's true..." and finally "oh, no...it's a joke...;-)"

But if it's really true, it's not funny. It's only stupid. The same energy and resources should be used for something useful instead of insane celebration of provocatory insanity. I can imagine J.Cage laughing in the sky observing the passive execution of his smart intellectual jokes...

[etLux]

Yeah, you'd think Cage's ASLSP organ piece immediately. I don't think he had intentionally made it to last that long though... *shrugs*

It'd be much harder on a piano wouldn't it?
Actually, the piece was originally, er, "written" for piano:

http://www.john-cage.halberstadt.de/new/index.php?l=e

David
www.DavidSosnowski.com
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[David_Carter]

Or a tuba piece! :p

Ern :cool: :)Your point being?

[David_Carter]

I suspect 99.9% of listeners dip in for a few minutes here and there and then move on.

For a true endurance test be at the Glasgow University Chapel on 8th October 2006 for the world premier of Kaikhosru Sorabji's Second Organ Symphony (I believe it's being performed again six days later in Darmstadt) performed by Kevin Bowyer - at over six hours (excluding intervals) it's almost Sorabji's longest piece - but not quite.

Be there but don't forget to take a comfy cusion.

[FredProgGH]

Hmmm... to write a serious concert piece that lasts six hours. Is that pasionate self-expression or simply the hieght of arrogance, I wonder. I get nervous asking people to listen to me for 75 minutes. Bach, Beethoven and Stravinsky and some other masters are certainly worth a couple hours. Mozart might even get six. But I'm thinking not this guy.

[Tom Crowning]

The only serious meaning of news like that is IMHO, the 1st of April announcement...

The article that seems to be serious, and you understand is crazy only because of the absurdity of the content. More funny if it let you doubt for a while "may be it's true..." and finally "oh, no...it's a joke...;-)"

But if it's really true, it's not funny. It's only stupid. The same energy and resources should be used for something useful instead of insane celebration of provocatory insanity. I can imagine J.Cage laughing in the sky observing the passive execution of his smart intellectual jokes...
The project is serious.

I heavily disagree with the way you judge this event because who are
you to say that this is 'stupid' or 'insane'?

This is art, and you can't say it's 'stupid' or 'insane' just by the time
or energy resources it needs.

Maybe it's not the kind of art you like most (it won't be a commercial
success anyway, and it does not even make a good ringtone for your
mobile ;) ), but it's art and deserves some respect.

Tom

[Aziraphal]

The project is serious.

I heavily disagree with the way you judge this event because who are
you to say that this is 'stupid' or 'insane'?

This is art, and you can't say it's 'stupid' or 'insane' just by the time
or energy resources it needs.

Maybe it's not the kind of art you like most (it won't be a commercial
success anyway, and it does not even make a good ringtone for your
mobile ;) ), but it's art and deserves some respect.
Tom

"The organisers of the John Cage Organ Project say the record-breaking performance in Halberstadt also has a philosophical background -- to "rediscover calm and slowness in today's fast-changing world".

Sorry, but some things are too much to swallow.

I've raved several times about the all-too-thin line between joke and serious art today. And there is another problem in today's art world:
The human mind has a, what I like to call it, a "symbol layer". Meaning: If you try hard enough to see a deeper meaning in X, you WILL see it.

So we have to respect each and every thing labelled "art" today?

I say no. And it's my right to say it. I have my own views of what Art should be. Namely, it should get the attention of a person who has sampled as many aspects of artistic expression as possible in his/her life - and make him/her say: "The time I spent listening to this was not wasted - my life is enriched for it".

I fail to see such power in a 639-year-long organ piece. But let me give my best shot of trying to be understanding, lest I be labelled as a disrespectful.
If it has a deeper meaning, I would think it is was meant by the composer (who has proven to be an intelligent person not prone to bluffing) warning to us, as a human race, that we have come to a point where we will swallow anything. That's my opinion also of the famous 4'33''.

But if you have other arguments, I am prepared to listen, and will even change my mind if you convince me this piece deserves its place on top of Parnassus.

Regards, Matt

[Tom Crowning]

[...]
I've raved several times about the all-too-thin line between joke and serious art today. And there is another problem in today's art world:
The human mind has a, what I like to call it, a "symbol layer". Meaning: If you try hard enough to see a deeper meaning in X, you WILL see it.

I agree with you on that, but that isn't my point because art
although it often has doesn't necessarily has to have a deeper meaning.
Lots of artists have created art just because it was fun or beautiful
or they were bored.
Some people even create art to make money!



So we have to respect each and every thing labelled "art" today?


You are now at the point "what IS art".
That was a question for centuries, and the answer was (and is) always
higly subjective.



[...]
But if you have other arguments, I am prepared to listen, and will even change my mind if you convince me this piece deserves its place on top of Parnassus.

Regards, Matt
I don't want to convince you, I just jumped in because I think the idea
deserves more respect then being called 'stupid' or 'insane'.

Best regards,
Tom

[Anton Bruckner]

Hello,
I was listening 12 hours in church, it is verry fantastic.
This is real art.
Anton Bruckner

[fred Holmes]

is it OK to pack a lunch?
Fred

[Anton Bruckner]

Yes you can eat there, there are even people sleeping in the church! It is cold there.
It is like a meditation. First you think: this is ~~~~. But then your head beginns to work. What will peaple think in 200 yaehrs? What is time. etc.

[diegom]

While I understand some people MUST do something for its own sake, i.e. Art for Art's sake, just doing in because it must be done (In the artist's mind), I think it is very sad that many generations would not be able to appreciate and/or experience the entire piece. It is interesting as an excercise, as a theory, as a way to break boundaries but, what is really the definition of art? Can there be art without anyone to appreciate it? I'm one of the group who thinks 4'33" was (and still is) a strong artistic statement but I think this is a (bad) joke.

Thoughts of Gaudi and La Sagrada Familia come to mind but, at least, we can observe the progress and future generations will be able to see the completed product...

Sorry, I think whoever dreamt this up, was on some heavy sedatives...

Diego

[etLux]

The part I listened to, I'm bequeathing to my grandchildren in my will.

David
www.DavidSosnowski.com
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[Fabio]

The project is serious.

I heavily disagree with the way you judge this event because who are
you to say that this is 'stupid' or 'insane'?

This is art, and you can't say it's 'stupid' or 'insane' just by the time
or energy resources it needs.

Maybe it's not the kind of art you like most (it won't be a commercial
success anyway, and it does not even make a good ringtone for your
mobile ;) ), but it's art and deserves some respect.

Tom

First rule of freedom is respecting opinions. Who are you to ask me who am I to say it! I'm just a man, it's enough!
:D

Sorry for giving you offence, it was not my will of course.

And sorry but I still think you are wrong because I think false that "everithing" somebody can imagine and call art is art. Art is perception, fruition, contemplation. Breaking the barriers of contemplation and fruition is an insulte to art IMHO.

But please, you are free like me considering it stupid, of considering me stupid because I don't understand...:D

[Fabio]

Yes you can eat there, there are even people sleeping in the church! It is cold there.
It is like a meditation. First you think: this is ~~~~. But then your head beginns to work. What will peaple think in 200 yaehrs? What is time. etc.

This is understandable, and I can agree. I love and respect meditation.
What you say remember me of the "ohm", the infinite monochord tone of mediation.
The event seems produce a sort of self generated meditation, more related to filosophy, anthropology and psycology (or maybe religion for somebody) than music. Music is based on human perception of time.

Exageration of time is just a limit paradox, that brake the concept of music itself.

But again, it's just the opinion of a composer and musicologist (me), probably too educated in conventional music to appreciate this concept.

[GDG]

The law of averages pretty much predicts that there will be an interruption in the continuity of this performance at some point (possibly do to a power outage, or perhaps deliberate sabotage). The question is, will they pick up where it left off, or start over?? :D

I think Cage would have welcomed the intrusion of the environment, and would want it incorporated into the performance :D

Grant

[GDG]

Yeah, you'd think Cage's ASLSP organ piece immediately. I don't think he had intentionally made it to last that long though... *shrugs*

It'd be much harder on a piano wouldn't it?

My understanding is that he did not specify any particular duration, just "as slowly as possible." The project planners set 639 years for historical reasons having to do with the church.

I think I'll wait for the recording - it should fit on about 4,478,112 CDs. :D

Grant

[Fabio]

...just to relax a little and avoid flames or trolling, forgive me if I post a last tought:

Sean must be really busy, or he had already composed and posted a 0,639 second long organ piece, just to react. :D


It should be considered art, and it can suggest meditation about the brevity of a moment...carpe diem!;)

[Tom Crowning]

[...]
Sean must be really busy, or he had already composed and posted a 0,639 second long organ piece, just to react. :D

Hehe, that's a good one :)

Reminds me at Brian Enos 3.25 sec Windows [tm] startup-sound.

From his diary:
We want a piece of music that is inspiring, universal, blah- blah, da-da-da, optimistic, futuristic, sentimental, emotional,'' this whole list of adjectives, and then at the bottom it said "and it must be 3 1/4 seconds long".

[Fabio]

Hehe, that's a good one :)

Reminds me at Brian Enos 3.25 sec Windows [tm] startup-sound.

From his diary:
We want a piece of music that is inspiring, universal, blah- blah, da-da-da, optimistic, futuristic, sentimental, emotional,'' this whole list of adjectives, and then at the bottom it said "and it must be 3 1/4 seconds long".


Even that's a good one! And, wow, he did a great job. I'm still impressed by the sound of Windows start up. Much more than by Windows OS...;)

Ops!... sorry again if you love it...I'm a Mac user...:o

[Tom Crowning]

Even that's a good one! And, wow, he did a great job. I'm still impressed by the sound of Windows start up. Much more than by Windows OS...;)

Ops!... sorry again if you love it...I'm a Mac user...:o

No problem, I'm a Linux user :D

(...but I still have to use Windows because Steinberg and Native
Instruments don't (yet) go the right way...)

[etLux]

Even that's a good one! And, wow, he did a great job. I'm still impressed by the sound of Windows start up. Much more than by Windows OS...;)

I only bought my system to hear the start-up sound. Other than that, I don't have much use for it.

David
www.DavidSosnowski.com
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