What's that drum sound ?!

[Zacchino]

Hey there,

I've been looking for months, for the name of this "talking" snare drum that you can hear at the beginning of Curtis Mayfield - Pusherman.

It's an awesome sound, and I don't know if wether it's a percussion, or a snare drum.

Anyone knows its name ?

[Mike Greene]

I don't have my Superfly record here (that was my very first album I bought with my own money . . . way back when I was in the 8th grade!) So my memory is a little hazy on the exact intros for all his songs, but I think you're hearing either bongo or high conga played by Henry Gibson (Curtis Mayfield's percussionist.)

The technique is one where he'll put his thumb or palm on the drum head and either move it towards the center and/or push down harder. This changes the tension on the head, which of course raises the pitch as the head is struck with the other hand. There is another technique where you wet your thumb, strike the conga and slide the thumb towards the center of the drum head.

If these don't sound right, let me know and I'll check out the CD at home to be sure I'm remembering the right intro.

It's funny to remember that in junior high, I wanted to quit piano and be a percussionist, I liked Henry Gibson that much. And I was convinced I could sing just like Curtis! I have no idea how my family kept straight faces when I practiced, especially as this skinny small-town white kid was singing a bunch of black power songs! :D

- Mike Greene

[Nick Batzdorf]

I don't know what a "talking snare drum" is, but I just listened to the demo on iTunes and hear a bongo played with a stick (possibly a rattan stick). At least it sounds like it was played with a stick - it could just be EQ-ed up a lot (I don't think they had Aural Exciters in those days, although it's possible that they did).

If you're hearing a slide, that's a conga trick - you push down while sliding your thumb from the edge to the middle after hitting it with your other hand. It changes the pitch of the harmonic sustain.

[Nick Batzdorf]

And I see that Mike explained the slide before me.

[Nick Batzdorf]

I also listened to a live version on iTunes, and there are Roto-toms in there.

And the bongo is a stick - you can't get that sound with EQ.

[belbin]

I've seen that thumb-trick done with the elbow for more weight/leverage/less arthritis. Those are big pitch ranges on Pusherman-Sliding thumb maybe, but pushing that hard with the thumb, no way.

Belbin

[Styxx]

A Syndrum. It's been a while but I used to use one for all our disco songs way back when. The variables on the unit were extensive.

http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/redir?src=websearch&requestId=3ec139d7c56e7e72&clickedItemRank=1&userQuery=Moog+Syndrum&clickedItemURN=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.synthmuseum.com%2F pal%2Fpalsyn01.html&title=Synthmuseum.com+-+pollard+%3A+Syndrum+Quad

[Nick Batzdorf]

What I heard on the live version was 100% not a Syndrum, it was Roto-toms.

[Mike Greene]

I listened to the iTunes "free sample" and I'll agree with Nick. Sounds a lot like Roto-Toms. No way they used any electronic percussion (Syndrum) in that band.

- Mike Greene

[FredProgGH]

C'mon people!!

Pusherman came out in '72, too early for syndrums, and that's defintely a skin head, not a synth. I'd vote for Roto-toms but '72 sounds too old for them even- anyone know? My guess is that it is actually the stick-push head-tension tuning trick but being done on a bongo, not a conga. It's pitched too high for a conga. A bongo would sound pretty much exactly like a Roto-tom and if the head was loose you'd get that much pitch-change at that high a tuning.

Now if I were going to re-create it today a Roto-tom would be the obvious way to do it and is probably what's on the live version like Nick said.

[Styxx]

I haven't heard the song in quite some time. Roto Toms is a good guess. The proto types were out in early 70's. Maybe you could post the first part of the song for us to hear?

[Nick Batzdorf]

Unfortunately I can't post it, because it's on the iTunes store. Just do a search for Curtis Mayfield Pusherman, and you'll see about four different versions. You can then audition :30 of each one.

[Nick Batzdorf]

Roto-toms were definitely around when I was in the percussion dept. at Cal State Northridge in 1976.

What's on the live version is definitely Roto-toms. The bongo part is a syncopated part - different thing.

[Zacchino]

>It's funny to remember that in junior high,
>I wanted to quit piano and be a percussionist

Percussionnist are IMO very under-estimated. Sometime percussionnists are half-time drummers. In my point of view it's an art of itself ! I understand your childhood dream.

Here's the intro in Hi-qual. MP3 (555Ko) :
http://zacchino.free.fr/cmayfield-pusherman.mp3

So, it's called Roto-Toms right ?

>Roto-toms were definitely around when
>I was in the percussion dept. at Cal State Northridge in 1976

Wow that's what I call "experience" !!! Dude you're an encyclopedia lol.

Everybody agree on the sound ? I guess Bongos pitched with a thumb is not a bad idea, as you can hear the percussionnist is playing bongos right after the intro...

[Zacchino]

Also, if you listen carefully, you can hear the sound of the hand scratching the skin of the tom... So imo it's not played along with a stick (within this version of the song by the way).

[Styxx]

Well, the instrumentation list does in fact list the above mentions percussion instruments. OK, time to move on.

[Nick Batzdorf]

The first sound could be djembe or talking drum, but it's probably a small Roto-tom played with a rattan stick - it doesn't sound like a drum stick. And it's definitely not bongos tuned low.

Then the bongos come in later with a fill (16th 8th 16th-8th 8th-8th 8th-8th 8th).