New Legato/Vibrato Tool Demo Script

[Big Bob]

You can now download my LVT Demo Script (along with the complete documentation package) from Theo Krueger’s K2 Script Page http://www.theokrueger.com/kontakt2.htm

After you have a chance to use it for a while, I invite you to post your ideas and suggestions for improvement to this thread. But do me a favor. Please don’t post a lot of operational questions that could easily be answered by simply reading the User’s Guide. Rather, let’s use this thread to try to make the LVT Script into a better tool.

God Bless,

Bob

[Up Late]

Big Bob -- you nailed it with this script!!!!! It is absolutely incredible. Thank you so much for your willingness to share all of your hard work; I fully appreciate the effort and long hours it must have taken to create this. It's SO musical and natural sounding.
Will be in touch -- thanks again.

[frankvg]

Hi Bob,

Really great script. Thanks for your time and effort. I am going to test.
One comment so far: I don't think it is cascading with the UltraTKT.

cheerio,
Frank

ps. I really liked the 'more than you ever wanted to know' section....

[Big Bob]

Hey Frank,


One comment so far: I don't think it is cascading with the UltraTKT.



The LVT Demo is not designed to be cascaded with any other script. Nor are most any other non-trivial scripts (including Ultra TKT or the PCE, etc).

I posted some info on this before on another thread that I can't remember the title of anymore. However, this subject of cascading scripts will become more and more important as we start using more and more scripts. Unfortunately, not all scripts can be made to play well together. But, there are certain techniques that we can develop that will insure some modicum of compatibility for cascading purposes. The problem right now is that NI has not really documented the kind of interactions that might be expected so we have to resort to experimentation. I have started to compile some of the interactions but my list is far from complete. Moreover, some of this may change with future NI updates (if we ever get any).

Until we can work out some standard protocols, I'm afraid the only way to get some of these scripts to play well together will be to combine them into one script.

As I have mentioned before, my goal is to develop a family of performance scripts so eventually I'll have to solve the problem of cascading or I'll have to simply combine the scripts into one.

But, for now, you'll just have to test the LVT without any other active scripts. After all, this is only a Demo anyway and its purpose is to solicit ideas for improvement. For testing purposes, you shouldn't activate another script at the same time because it will only muddy the waters.

Bob

[g.h.]

Hi BigBob!

Absolutely fantastic!!! Thank you!!!

Suggestion for the ui: I would prefer to be able to define the speed (vib) as a note value (i.e. 1/16). Much easier from my point of view and in addition you don't have to recalculate on tempo changes /other tempo settings. But as I said: my point of view.

NB: How did you manage to eliminate the noise related to the change_vol command?

Best regards
gh

[NedK]

Great script Big Bob. Thanks a lot!

[Big Bob]

Hi Gunter,


NB: How did you manage to eliminate the noise related to the change_vol command?



Oh how I wish I could eliminate the change_vol() noise problem:mad: . The only reason I'm kind of getting away with it is because most of the time the Depth setting will be kind of low (See paragraph 4 of the Readme). However, Theo informed me that he was hearing a lot of noise in the Vibrato. And then before I could investigate, he discovered on his own that the noise was related to cranking up the Depth knob (I guess he likes more tremolo in his Vibrato than I do;) ). I better make paragraph 4 a little stronger than it is. I sure wish NI would get this problem fixed because the change_vol() function is central to so many things that we'd like to do.


Suggestion for the ui: I would prefer to be able to define the speed (vib) as a note value (i.e. 1/16). Much easier from my point of view and in addition you don't have to recalculate on tempo changes /other tempo settings. But as I said: my point of view.



I'm sure this will be of interest to others as well. This is the kind of input we want to gather as we go along for when we start working on the most musician-friendly interface. But, right now I'd like to concentrate on things to improve the overall quality of the effects. I'm working right now on V006 to incorporate a lot of sound ideas presented by 'Up Late'.

And, to the rest of you guys, thanks for your encouraging comments.

God Bless,

Bob

[Up Late]

Hi BigBob!

I would prefer to be able to define the speed (vib) as a note value (i.e. 1/16). Much easier from my point of view and in addition you don't have to recalculate on tempo changes /other tempo settings. But as I said: my point of view.


gh -- I think that since most players employing vibrato do so without regard to the tempo of the work (as with most singers, for example) I'd still prefer the script as is, without note values for the vibrato speed. Just my 2 cents.

[ddarwin7]

Thank you so much Big Bob. You are always so kind and generous to share your knowledge and scripts. I downloaded it, but have not used it yet. But will soon.

Thanks again

[Theodor]

Thank you for everything Robert. For the scripts, your contribution to the K2 community and for always beeing generous and willing to listen of new ideas.

The world needs more Big Bob :)

[Big Bob]

You guys are all too kind, you're going to make me blush again :o . But as to...

The world needs more Big Bob :)
I'm afraid that would increase the mass of the earth so much that it might de-stabilize its orbit, so maybe you're better off with only one of me ;) .

But, on a serious note, I'm busy incorporating some nice improvements into the LVT resulting from a dialog with Gary (aka Up Late). I've also received a script (and some suggested areas to examine) from Steve (who has also been working on legato techniques). So, my thanks to all of you who are participating in the development of this script. Keep the ideas coming.

Right now the emphasis should be more on detemining what will make it sound the best. Making the control of it more musician-friendly will be the next phase. I know we'd all like to have a script that we can use with any sample library and one that automatically handles everything so that all we have to do is start playing and beautiful results flow forth! We might eventually be able to get pretty close to that but, that's not where we are now.

If you download this script, don't expect miracles. My hope is that at least some of you will use this script in an investigatory way, trying to 'coax' the right sound out of it and, when you get it close, try to determine what we can add that might take us the rest of the way.

An interesting line of thought came out In one of my conversations with Gary. At the stage we are now, maybe we should view using this script like we would view learning to play a new instrument. The 'set it and forget it' approach will only get you a crude approximation of what we're after. But, once we have twiddled and tweaked it a while, we'll know enough to make the next version sound much better and ultimately much easier to 'play'.

To help the investigatory process, we need lots of controls to tweak. While I provided quite a number of them in V005, my conversations with Gary lead me to believe that we may need a few more. I need to also make the MIDI control options capable of providing 'finer' control (perhaps similar to that used for MIDI speed control for the Vibrato Effect). And, since I'm running out of control-panel real estate, after V006 I may have to break the LVT into two scripts, one for Vibrato studies and the other for Legato studies. Then, once we have reduced the complexity of the control functions, these scripts can be recombined. Ultimately, I hope to integrate the LVT with the TKT and the PCE (and a few other performance tools) into one grand performance script (or suite of scripts that can be used together). Of course this is a very ambitious end result and I may not live long enough to achieve it:( . There are plenty of obstacles ahead, none the least of which is getting NI to fix all the known K2 issues, especially the change_vol() noise problem.

So, thanks for all your help and encouragement so far but, keep tweaking and suggesting and we may just get there yet.

God Bless

Bob

[sghoughton]

Once I put a few of my extra changes in, I may also post mine just for experimental sake as well. I actually started it with the thought that it would be nice to be able tweek the parameters to see what changes, good or bad, would come of various small modifications, so i may keep adding to it with the hope anything new that's learned (thats useful) might get into Bob's final script.

steve

[Hardy Heern]

Thank you for everything Robert. For the scripts, your contribution to the K2 community and for always beeing generous and willing to listen of new ideas.

The world needs more Big Bob :)

Yeah, we want Bigger Bob!:)

Serioiusly Bob, thanks for your generosity and hard work.

Frank

[Big Bob]

Hey Guys,

Please hold off on any serious testing of V005 of the LVT because I just found a serious problem:confused: . I thought I had addressed this situation but somewhere along the line I guess I dropped some code, most embarassing:o . I'll put up V006 in a few days and hopefully we can proceed.

Sorry,

Bob

[Thonex]

HI Big Bob,

I just wanted to thank you for doing all this hard work and sharing your findings. I couldn't get your V005 to work (as you already indicated) but I got a chance to take a look at your code and some of your ideas. Very Nice!!!!

I'll look forward to trying it out when you post the working version. Hopefully I'll have some valid input to give you.

'Til then..... thanks for all your hard work and transparency.

Cheers,

T

[Big Bob]

Hi guys,

Just a little update. I've been down with a bug (biological not computer) and probably won't get back to this script for at least a few more days. Prior to getting knocked down, I was working with Gary (aka 'Up Late') on some new additions and I think it might be a good idea if I include these ideas in V006. But, since we have more testing to do, it may be a while longer before I can post V006. Also, in order to get more control panel real estate, I may break the script into two separate scripts. If time allows and there aren't too many problems with it, I'm going to try to make the pair of scripts cascade-able. If this is successful, we'll have the beginnings of a 'performance suite' of scripts.


However, referring to Thonex's post I just wanted to thank you for doing all this hard work and sharing your findings. I couldn't get your V005 to work (as you already indicated) but I got a chance to take a look at your code and some of your ideas. Very Nice!!!!



The problem I found with V005 (as released) is mostly related to the 'one-note-at-a-time' (ie Solo mode) control structure used with the script. But, it doesn't render the script inoperable so you should be able to get it to work. So, try it again, you may not be using it correctly.

[Thonex]

However, referring to Thonex's post

The problem I found with V005 (as released) is mostly related to the 'one-note-at-a-time' (ie Solo mode) control structure used with the script.

Hi BB,

I copy/pasted the script into the editor and when I hit "Apply" there were syntax errors found on many lines. So I was unable to load the script as-is. I'll try it again later on... maybe I copied it wrong.

Thanks again for this... and feel better soon.

Cheers,

T

[frankvg]

Hi BB,

I copy/pasted the script into the editor and when I hit "Apply" there were syntax errors found on many lines.
T

Hi T,

You have to compile the .txt file in Nils Kscript Editor (http://nilsliberg.se/ksp/) but you can use the .nkp file. Just put it in the script folder of Kontakt2

Frank

[kotori]

For reference, this is how to use the code. There are two alternatives:
1. paste it into my editor (http://nilsliberg.se/ksp/) (so far PC only) and press the F5 key
2. switch to K2 and paste
or
1. paste it into the online preprocessor (http://nilsliberg.se/ksp/ksp_preprocessor.py) (any platform, naturally) and click the "translate" button
2. copy the result and paste it into K2

Best,
Nils

[Thonex]

Hi T,

You have to compile the .txt file in Nils Kscript Editor (http://nilsliberg.se/ksp/) but you can use the .nkp file. Just put it in the script folder of Kontakt2

Frank


Ahhh.... I have Nil's editor (awesome!!!!) but I never "compile" in it... just use it as an editor. I'll give it a shot later today. Thanks for the tip.

T

[Thonex]

For reference, this is how to use the code. There are two alternatives:
1. paste it into my editor (http://nilsliberg.se/ksp/) (so far PC only) and press the F5 key
2. switch to K2 and paste
or
1. paste it into the online preprocessor (http://nilsliberg.se/ksp/ksp_preprocessor.py) (any platform, naturally) and click the "translate" button
2. copy the result and paste it into K2

Best,
Nils


Heh heh you beat me by a minute.

Thanks Nils.... great editor you wrote.... love it!!!

I'll try your suggestions.

Thanks.

T

[Big Bob]

Hey Thonex,

Glad to see that Nils jumped in to the rescue. But, I do have a question for you. Is there something unclear about page 7 of the User's Guide? It was supposed to provide the info you needed to load either the .txt file or the .nkp file. If it's not clear, I need to revise it.

Thanks

Bob

[Thonex]

Hi Bob,

No... your instructions are perfectly clear. :) And very professionally laid out I may add. It's just that I do some programming too... so I just copy/pasted it the way I would do it from an editor and there were syntax errors abound.... I should have read your instructions first.

I'll get to it later today... on a deadline right now... I come in here for stress relief :)

Cheers,

T

[RickD]

You can now download my LVT Demo Script (along with the complete documentation package) from Theo Krueger’s K2 Script Page http://www.theokrueger.com/kontakt2.htm

After you have a chance to use it for a while, I invite you to post your ideas and suggestions for improvement to this thread. But do me a favor. Please don’t post a lot of operational questions that could easily be answered by simply reading the User’s Guide. Rather, let’s use this thread to try to make the LVT Script into a better tool.

God Bless,

Bob

Hey Big Bob, I'd love to try out your script, but it doesn't seem to work on Mac? Is it because you saved it as a PC version of rar? I wonder if you could upload it as a simple stuffit?

Thanks and God Bless you too,
Rick

[RiffWraith]

Please don’t post a lot of operational questions...

<ducking> Ok, how about one (hopefully) lil' question? </ducking> ;)

Err, I am kinda new to Kontakt2, and this script is not working for me. Obviously it's me, but I am wondering what I am doing/not doing. Any other of the scripts that shipped with K2 work; I load the script and go. But this one - which is the first user-made script I am attempting to work with - does nothing when I load it. I guess what I am looking for is a way to activate this script?

Would someone be so kind as to point me in the right direction here?

Thanks much in advance.

[RiffWraith]

Ok, got it. I read the enclosed documentation a bit more carefully instead of quickly skimming over it.

Great script! :D

[Big Bob]

Hi Rick,

Hey Big Bob, I'd love to try out your script, but it doesn't seem to work on Mac? Is it because you saved it as a PC version of rar? I wonder if you could upload it as a simple stuffit?

Thanks and God Bless you too,
Rick

If you are having a problem with extracting the individual files from the .rar, I'm afraid I can't help you since I have no MAC experience. However, if you did get the individual files extracted, you should at least be able to install the .nkp file following a similar procedure as that found on page 7 of the User's Guide.

Perhaps someone more MAC savvy can jump in here with the general MAC procedure required to install 3rd party scripts?

Bob

[frankvg]

Perhaps someone more MAC savvy can jump in here with the general MAC procedure required to install 3rd party scripts?

Bob

Everything works fine on my mac. Stuffit expander 8.0.2

The .nkp file should be put in your Kontakt2 folder (applications), presets-scripts

Frank

[RiffWraith]

Ok, now that I have this working, I was wondering what settings the rest of you are using to get a good vibrato on a vibrato-less violin section? Anyone care to share?

Thanks! :D

[ddarwin7]

Hi Big Bob:

This demo scrip is one of the best I've used for solo instruments. I've been trying to use it for cello and violin. Very useful controls, Vibrato and Legato within the same script. I know that since this script is still at its early stage, there may be some bugs or shortcomings in its, but nevertheless this script is one of the best.

There are a couple of things I noticed though, one is that once in a while I loose the vibrato effect and I cannot get it back until I reload the script again. I am not using any CC's so I set them all to 0. I only use a volume controller pedal. Everything seems to be working OK, but once in a while I completely loose the vibrato effects, and no matter what knobs I turn, I just can't get it back. I am running in the sampler mode, tried it with DFD turned off and then on, to see If I can see a difference. But no difference.

The second thing I noticed is some noise in the depth knob control. Any settings a quarter turn and above I get a noise that builds up. The sound is like static noise, and it get louded as you approach the max setting.

Possible Suggestions for improvement; Since chaining scripts give unpredictable effects, why not have one script that has all the controls for solo instruments.
1) A random pitch Variability knob (like GPO)
2) Have sustain pedal switch between legato and non legato mode, so you have control to play multiple notes for accents. (for example with violin or cello, you can just press the sustain pedal and play 2 notes simultaneously, and then then take you leg off the sustain pedal and play normal legato)
3) Velocity control knob that would make any sample sound staccato-ish above a certain velocity, the initial attack. (But smooth transition)
4) A pitch bend capability similar to Synful orchestra, The pitch bend wheel setup in a way that imparts smooth transition during pitch bending.

These are just some of the things that come to my mind, and I just wrote it down, some may be doable but may be not, but again its just a suggestion.

I am really enjoying your script, and thanks again Bib Bob for you generous contribution.

Ddarwin

[Big Bob]

Hi Ddarwin,

Thanks for all your suggestions. Since most of them are more appropriate to phase two (when we design the human interface), I'll set them aside until then.
The second thing I noticed is some noise in the depth knob control. Any settings a quarter turn and above I get a noise that builds up. The sound is like static noise, and it get louded as you approach the max setting.This is our old friend the change_vol() function that we're all hoping NI will fix (but I'm getting a lot of flack on NI's forum for daring to suggest that fixing such a 'trivial' thing could possibly be important to anyone:rolleyes: ). I thought I might be able to get away with using it for Depth since usually this value could be set kind of low. Theo Krueger also mentioned this problem awhile back and I asked him to determine the highest setting that produced acceptable results. He indicated about 2.5db or so. For the next version of this script I planned to limit Depth to 2.5. If you are experiencing noise below this setting, let me know.

There are a couple of things I noticed though, one is that once in a while I loose the vibrato effect and I cannot get it back until I reload the script again. I am not using any CC's so I set them all to 0. I only use a volume controller pedal. Everything seems to be working OK, but once in a while I completely loose the vibrato effects, and no matter what knobs I turn, I just can't get it back. I am running in the sampler mode, tried it with DFD turned off and then on, to see If I can see a difference. But no difference.

On this one, I would need a specific procedure that I can use to repeat the problem. However, it could conceivably be related to the Solo-Mode control structure which does have a 'hole in its logic'. That's already been corrected for the next version.

In any case, I'm glad you generally like the script and again I thank you for your input.

Bob

[Thonex]

Hi Big Bob,

I just tried your LVT script and found it very promising. The Vibrato section provides for a lot of customization. The legato section is also very good, but I noticed that when I raised the Bend Time and played a faster phrase, that some of the notes would not play. Maybe because the notes were played too fast to allow for the completion of the Pitch Bend statements?

For sake of communication, in the case of a legato phrase I'll call the first note the "out" note and the second note the "In" note... since we're Xfading "out" of the first note and "In" to the second one.

You mentioned in your notes that you use a Change Pitch command on the "out" note and also on the "in" note to simulate the legato pitch articulation. I'm curious, how did you split the pitch bending with regards to the "out" and "In" notes?... for example an octave interval... did the "out" note start to do a 1/2 octave Pitch Bend and the "In" note pick up where the previous note left off?? Or did you use some other method. Because it sound quite smooth. I decided to slow the XTime down to the slowest and the same with the BTime and I wasn't able to detect any pitch change on the "Out" note -- only on the "In" note. But it could have been very slight.

And lastly.... where did you find those "Function_" statements!!!! :) :)
I couldn't find them in the Kontakt Script PDF and they look like a useful way of programming. for example:

function Ramp_Down(vx1,vx2)
{ Generates falling ramp of pitch & volume from Pitch_Step*(vx1-1) to }
{ Pitch_Step*vx2. Pitch stepping occurs before each 100 usec Tick }
{ and concurrently with each Pitch_Step is a corresponding Vol_Step }
$VX := vx1

while (($VX > vx2) and ($Vib_State # $Restart))

dec($VX)

change_tune($ActiveID,$Pitch_Step*$VX,0)

$Atn := $Vol_Step*$VX

change_vol($ActiveID,$0db - $Atn,1)

$0db := $Atn

wait($Tick)

end while
end function { Ramp_Down }

I see no mention of function end_funtion in the manual. How do you use those things? :) Or if you could point me to where they are discussed in the manual.

Thanks so much,

T

[kotori]

And lastly.... where did you find those "Function_" statements!!!! :) :)
I couldn't find them in the Kontakt Script PDF and they look like a useful way of programming. [...] How do you use those things? :) Or if you could point me to where they are discussed in the manual.
Hi Thonex,
they are not part of the Kontakt script syntax. It's an extension I made to the syntax. That's why one has to compile the code - on compilation these functions are translated to ordinary script syntax. For more information about functions and how to use them in your own scripts please see my introduction to functions (http://www.nilsliberg.se/ksp/using_functions.py). If you have any question about using functions feel free to ask in this thread (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41716).

Best,
Nils

[Thonex]

Hi Thonex,
they are not part of the Kontakt script syntax. It's an extension I made to the syntax. That's why one has to compile the code - on compilation these functions are translated to ordinary script syntax. For more information about functions and how to use them in your own scripts please see my introduction to functions (http://www.nilsliberg.se/ksp/using_functions.py). If you have any question about using functions feel free to ask in this thread (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41716).

Best,
Nils


Awesome!!! You guys rock!!

T

[Big Bob]

Hi Thonex,


I just tried your LVT script and found it very promising. The Vibrato section provides for a lot of customization. The legato section is also very good, but I noticed that when I raised the Bend Time and played a faster phrase, that some of the notes would not play. Maybe because the notes were played too fast to allow for the completion of the Pitch Bend statements?

You're exactly right, this is one of the problems in the control structure that has subsequently been fixed. Initially, I was worried about 'ghost' notes that might occur (from accidentally brushing a neighboring key). So I put a trap in to discard them. But it turned out to be like 'throwing the baby out with the bath water'.


You mentioned in your notes that you use a Change Pitch command on the "out" note and also on the "in" note to simulate the legato pitch articulation. I'm curious, how did you split the pitch bending with regards to the "out" and "In" notes?... for example an octave interval... did the "out" note start to do a 1/2 octave Pitch Bend and the "In" note pick up where the previous note left off?? Or did you use some other method. Because it sound quite smooth. I decided to slow the XTime down to the slowest and the same with the BTime and I wasn't able to detect any pitch change on the "Out" note -- only on the "In" note. But it could have been very slight.

I wanted to be able to provide separate control over fade-out and fade-in times for the crossfade. However, as a temporary expedient for V005, since I ran out of panel real estate, I tried to reduce the number of controls and provided a kind of 'hoaky' way of shortening the fade-out time. For V005, fade-out is the lessor of the BTime setting or the time you hold the prior key. If your key overlap is shorter than BTime, it will govern the fade-out time. Generally, the legato effect sounds better with shorter fade-outs (relative to fade-in time). Regarding the bend interval, it's the same for both notes but the first note is usually cut short. This is an area where many improvements are forthcoming in the next version.

I have now successfully split the LVT into two separate scripts that are cascade-able. This creates a lot more panel space for both the legato and the vibrato tools, yet allow them to both be used at the same time. Stay tuned.


And lastly.... where did you find those "Function_" statements!!!! :) :)
I couldn't find them in the Kontakt Script PDF and they look like a useful way of programming. for example:



Hey Nils,

I'm sorry that everyone hasn't caught on to this yet. I put the info about using your editor everywhere I could think of in the documentation. It's even in the header comments of the script (right at the top) but, I guess no one reads the documentation. It's probably going to be lots of fun when the LVT is released as a pair of cascades:) .

[Thonex]

Thanks for the explanation BB,

And sorry about the "functions".... I just threw your script up ... played with it... and was able to get it to work (a testament to a good script) without reading anything... well... I did scan your notes :).

Have you tried to put any kind of change_vol code during the Change_pitch code-- aside form linear expressions? Like a sin or cosin volume ramp? I'm finding it's tricky to have "nested" wait or loop statements when fine resolution and speed are required.

T

[Big Bob]

Hi Thonex,


Have you tried to put any kind of change_vol code during the Change_pitch code-- aside form linear expressions? Like a sin or cosin volume ramp? I'm finding it's tricky to have "nested" wait or loop statements when fine resolution and speed are required.



Yes, I've got a lot of similar ideas and I've done some experiments but as long as the change_vol() function remains unfixed, my heart just isn't in it. I can't tell you the hours I spent getting the PCE to provide timed and timeless, formant-corrected pitch bends (including equal-power, sine/cosine crossfading of adjacent samples) only to have the whole script be 'put into mothballs' because of the noisey performance of the change_vol() function.

I just finished a frustrating 'go around' on the NI forum trying to push for getting this function fixed (in the hopefully soon coming update). First I was 'raked over the coals' by some other forum members for having the audacity to complain about my trivial KSP problems in competition with their 'important' problems. Then finally Markus responded with several non-answers in perhaps his most unmemorable series of postings ever. My feeling now is that we're probably going to be waiting a long long long long time before we get this function fixed. And, unfortunately, the change_vol() function is crucial to what we were all hoping to do with performance scripts.

If any of you guys are interested in having more performance scripts that really work, maybe you ought to start making a lot of posts on the NI forum about fixing the change_vol() function. I had a few supportive posts by Kotori,TS, and a few others but we need more numbers. They may just shrug it off, but you never know, maybe if there's enough noise we can get their attention.

Bob

[Thonex]

I've got a lot of similar ideas and I've done some experiments but as long as the change_vol() function remains unfixed, my heart just isn't in it.

I might be on to something here.... I need to test some more, but I may have a balance without any artifacting... hopefully.

I'll let you know.

T

[Big Bob]

I might be on to something here.... I need to test some more, but I may have a balance without any artifacting... hopefully.

I'll let you know.

T
Hey Thonex, do you mean you might have a noiseless work-around for the change_vol() function. If so, the rest of us will make you 'scripter of the year' or something like that (at least I will).

Back when I put the PCE into limbo, I fiddled around a while with multiple fade_in() calls and multiple fade_out() calls using different time intervals to try to shape the curve and control the volume level but if I remember correctly, the time/amplitude relationship wasn't sufficiently repeatable to get the control needed. I hope you have better luck with whatever you're working on.

Bob

[Thonex]

Hey Thonex, do you mean you might have a noiseless work-around for the change_vol() function. If so, the rest of us will make you 'scripter of the year' or something like that (at least I will).


Yeah... basically a volume counter that's nested in the main while() pitch loop. The counter adds up... then when it hits a ceiling it comes down -- that way you can control the up shape and the down shape based on the math you assign it.

Hey... it's not pretty .. but so far... no artifacts... but I'm getting lost in my own code and I'm having trouble bringing the volume back to unity (where the original sample volume was set).

T

[Big Bob]

Hi Thonex,


Yeah... basically a volume counter that's nested in the main while() pitch loop. The counter adds up... then when it hits a ceiling it comes down -- that way you can control the up shape and the down shape based on the math you assign it.

Hey... it's not pretty .. but so far... no artifacts... but I'm getting lost in my own code and I'm having trouble bringing the volume back to unity (where the original sample volume was set).



What are you talking about puting in the loop, change_vol calls or a fade calls? The fade functions don't exhibit any noise but, as I said earlier they don't have sufficient stability to accurately control levels. On the other hand if you are talking about calling change_vol() in a loop, how are you going to avoid the pops, crackles, and other noise it produces?

Bob

[ddarwin7]

Thanks for the response and update Big Bob. I will post more information and findings and suggestions as I come across them, as I continue to use and experiment with this script. Looks like this script is eventually going to grow to be a script of all scripts for lots of people.

Thanks again Big Bob
Dd

[Thonex]

Hi Thonex,



What are you talking about puting in the loop, change_vol calls or a fade calls? The fade functions don't exhibit any noise but, as I said earlier they don't have sufficient stability to accurately control levels. On the other hand if you are talking about calling change_vol() in a loop, how are you going to avoid the pops, crackles, and other noise it produces?

Bob

Yeah... a simple change_vol statement.

Here it is in it's most basic form. Copy/paste this into your K2 edit window and play notes one-finger-at-a-time for now (for testing purposes) and tell me if you're getting the artifacts you're talking about. Make sure you're patch is at a med-low volume to begin with.
This is the kind of simple solution I was looking into for doing a simultaneous volume and pitch articulation. I know it's not very pretty, but I'm not getting any clicks and pops while plying one note at a time... or while in legato mode. The finessing comes with how to incorporate it with the pitch while() statements -- which I'm still working on. I think, in the real script, the while() statement would be derived for the pitch and the volume would "nested" inside the while statement.

If you want to speed up the volume swell just replace the 1 with a 2 or 3 or 4... on this statement "$VolRamp:= $VolRamp+1".

If you want to slow it down... just add more time to the wait() statement.

Anyway... let me know your thoughts.



on init
{=================Declarations==================}
declare $VolRamp

end on

on note
$VolRamp:=0
while ($VolRamp<40000)
wait (1)
if ($VolRamp<20000)
change_vol ($EVENT_ID,$VolRamp,0)
else
change_vol ($EVENT_ID,40000-$VolRamp,0)

end if
$VolRamp:= $VolRamp+1
end while

end on



T

[kotori]

Hi Bob,
I just tested a workaround for the change_vol noise bug - adding a CC volume modulator to the Amplifier section of the instrument and using set_controller instead of change_vol in the script. This seems to do the trick for me - noise before, but no noise after. The results comes from a test script - I haven't tried to make the changes in the LVT script so I cannot be sure I've covered all situations that cause crackles. Just thought I'd let you know.

Also, here's an idea about how to make it possible to have more settings than the UI area permits:
Use ui_value_edit's and ui_knob's that have general names like value1, value2, etc together with ui_label's that describe what they are. Use a menu to switch between different set of settings. When the set of settings change, the text of all ui_label's are updated to reflect the change.

Best,
Nils

[Big Bob]

Hey Thonex,


Yeah... a simple change_vol statement.




If you want to speed up the volume swell just replace the 1 with a 2 or 3 or 4... on this statement "$VolRamp:= $VolRamp+1".

If you want to slow it down... just add more time to the wait() statement.

Anyway... let me know your thoughts.



I'm afraid you are simply re-discovering the wheel. What you are doing is exactly the same as we all tried to do over 6 months ago. The problem isn't working out how to shape the volume over time, the problem is with the change_vol() function itself. A series of calls to this function produces NOISE! Look at the code for the LVT, even the simple trapezoidal waveshape of the Vibrato Depth component starts to get noticeably noisey as soon as you crank up the Depth knob. I'm afraid you just haven't heard the noise yet. It's more obvious with some instruments than others. When I was writing the PCE I was working with a trombone preset and at first I didn't notice the noise at all. Later when I used a clarinet preset it became blatantly obvious. Keep listening, you'll hear it.

Sorry,

Bob

[Big Bob]

Hi Nils,


Also, here's an idea about how to make it possible to have more settings than the UI area permits:
Use ui_value_edit's and ui_knob's that have general names like value1, value2, etc together with ui_label's that describe what they are. Use a menu to switch between different set of settings. When the set of settings change, the text of all ui_label's are updated to reflect the change.

That's a great idea, sort of like 'soft buttons'. I'll keep it in mind for future situations when I run out of real estate. Right now, I've been successful with recasting the LVT as a pair of scripts that will function together as part of what will eventually be a 'suite' of performance scripts. So, I've got lots of extra panel space for both the LPT and VPT so I can now make some forward motion.


I just tested a workaround for the change_vol noise bug - adding a CC volume modulator to the Amplifier section of the instrument and using set_controller instead of change_vol in the script. This seems to do the trick for me - noise before, but no noise after. The results comes from a test script - I haven't tried to make the changes in the LVT script so I cannot be sure I've covered all situations that cause crackles. Just thought I'd let you know.



Another good idea Nils. If we can't get NI to fix this thing I guess we'll have to resort to something of this sort. Of course one disadvantage of something like this is that the preset must be customized to work with the script.

I wonder, is there enough resolution? Have you been able to determine any mathematical expressions such as: Vol = K*CC/127 and is the function linear in db? For example, in the PCE, we need to shape the attenuation curves to follow the sine/cosine shape needed for equal-power crossfading. This shape can rather easily be specified in terms of mdb attenuation but if K in the equation above is a complex or unknown function, things will be much more difficult.

I'll try to run some experiments with this also, but, please let me know any details of what you discover.

Bob

[Thonex]

I'm afraid you just haven't heard the noise yet. It's more obvious with some instruments than others. When I was writing the PCE I was working with a trombone preset and at first I didn't notice the noise at all. Later when I used a clarinet preset it became blatantly obvious. Keep listening, you'll hear it.


Thanks Bob,

I'll go back and listen with some other instruments.... I've being using a VSL expresivo Violin as my test sound so it's entirely possible I've been 'missing' what you are describing... which, by the sound of your description, is probably stepping or zipper noise due to a lack of interpolation between db levels.... that's why you are noticing it more with a greater 'depth' setting on your end.

I'm guessing NI is saying "it functions as designed"... because they probably weren't thinking people would use it as a volume ramp... they probably thought they had that covered with the ADSR.

I like Nils idea... except it would have to be a CC assigned to the Main Vol and not the AMP vol (IMO) because too much orchestration is done using the expression CC assigned to the AMP section and there would probably be noisy conflicts.... I'm just guessing here.

Anyway.... sorry to re-discover the wheel... but if the ramp is short and only at the onset of the "target" note then maybe it's still a usable tool to maintain the legato 'illusion'.

I'll go back and check.

Thanks,

T

[Thonex]

Just tried it again with a sine wave as a sound and you are right Bob!

There's the zipper noise. Much more noticeable on a sine wave than a violin sound :).

I wonder, like you asked above, if Nils idea has a good resolution and is translatable in db terms.

How do you think Gerritan's Stadavari is doing it? Since it is violin, maybe they are using the "down-and-dirty" change_vol() method.:)

T

[kotori]

If we can't get NI to fix this thing I guess we'll have to resort to something of this sort. Of course one disadvantage of something like this is that the preset must be customized to work with the script.

I wonder, is there enough resolution? Have you been able to determine any mathematical expressions such as: Vol = K*CC/127 and is the function linear in db? For example, in the PCE, we need to shape the attenuation curves to follow the sine/cosine shape needed for equal-power crossfading. This shape can rather easily be specified in terms of mdb attenuation but if K in the equation above is a complex or unknown function, things will be much more difficult.

I'll try to run some experiments with this also, but, please let me know any details of what you discover.

Bob
Hi again,
Thonex, I don't think it's possible to control the main vol with modulation and set_controller can only affect modulation.

Bob, how the modulation works seems to be poorly documented so I cannot really answer your question about the relation between volume and CC value. Each modulator seems to be linear in db, but I don't know how they are combined to form the final volume. Resolution shouldn't be a problem I think, because when adding the modulator one can specify with a slider how much the CC shall affect the volume. If one lowers that value it should be possible to use the full 0-127 scale for the CC. I'll let you know if I learn anything more about this.

Best,
Nils

[Big Bob]

Hi Thonex,

Just tried it again with a sine wave as a sound and you are right Bob!

There's the zipper noise. Much more noticeable on a sine wave than a violin sound :).
Yes indeed, but I don't think it's zipper noise because it seems to have little to do with low resolution. Zipper noise usually results from not enough bits of resolution in the steps rather than the stepping itself. Besides, you don't have to send a stairstep to it to produce the noise, there are other indications that it's just plain noisey. I don't think NI is going to say that's the way it is. Way back I had a dialog with Nicki Marinic about this in which he admitted the noise problem. BTW there are other problems with this function like the absolute form (ie change_vol(x,y,0) not remembering the velocity component when used in conjunction with the wait() function. This is really all very old ground that was discussed to death a long time ago. But, everytime someone newer comes on board, this discussion starts all over again. If you are really interested in the topic, I suggest you do a search on both this and NI's forum and you can dig up the whole ugly mess. Or, just take my word for it, the change_vol() function does not work properly.

God Bless,

Bob

[Big Bob]

Hi Nils,

Bob, how the modulation works seems to be poorly documented so I cannot really answer your question about the relation between volume and CC value. Each modulator seems to be linear in db, but I don't know how they are combined to form the final volume. Resolution shouldn't be a problem I think, because when adding the modulator one can specify with a slider how much the CC shall affect the volume. If one lowers that value it should be possible to use the full 0-127 scale for the CC. I'll let you know if I learn anything more about this.


Yes, please keep me posted and I'll do the same. I don't know when I'll have some time to look into this because right now I'm 'up to my ears', but this too shall pass.

God Bless,

Bob

[Thonex]

but I don't think it's zipper noise because it seems to have little to do with low resolution. ....

Well, whatever it is, it seems 'passable' at higher resolutions and with narrower ranges. I'm really only interested in the first little volume articulations one hears during the transitions of the notes. Same with pitch. Unless we're doing a deliberate gliss/portamento articulation, the pitch slur is very brief.... depending on the instrument. Brass and Strings often tend to 'overshoot' their target note for ever so briefly a moment... while the clarinet is seems much smoother. I'm basing this on some rough pitch analysis where Melodyne tracked the pitch info from VLS's legato patches.

Anyway.. I'm going to continue to be a stubborn bulldog and try to fit a square peg in a round hole with this change_vol() thing :). I'll let you know how it turns out :rolleyes:


But to keep things on topic... I'm exited that you are splitting up the script into two modules. It's a brilliant idea... a win/win... for those who have vibrato in their samples... they need only to load the legato tool and vise-versa. I'm also guessing it will be easier for maintenance :)

Cheers,

T

[Big Bob]

But to keep things on topic... I'm exited that you are splitting up the script into two modules. It's a brilliant idea... a win/win... for those who have vibrato in their samples... they need only to load the legato tool and vise-versa. I'm also guessing it will be easier for maintenance :)
As it stands now, you can use the Legato Tool without the Vibrato Tool but not vice versa. The first script of the suite will always handle the solo-mode logic so the Vibrato Tool won't work standalone. Of course you can always disable the Legato Tool but it will still occupy a script tab.

Anyway.. I'm going to continue to be a stubborn bulldog and try to fit a square peg in a round hole with this change_vol() thing :). I'll let you know how it turns out :rolleyes:
Yes, well you may possibly get by with using the change_vol() function sparingly and at a low level, at least that's what I thought when I used it for Vibrato Depth, but, even there, it was the first thing that others complained about. But, maybe you'll have better luck. And yes, please do keep me informed of your progress.

Bob

[Big Bob]

Hey Nils,

re: Your amplifier modulation idea as a work-around for the change_vol() function, as I thought a little about it last night, it dawned on me that it would be very limited because we wouldn't have individual note control. Doesn't the amplifier affect the entire group it's assigned to? So we couldn't use this technique to produce shaped crossfades of two notes for example. Or am I missing something?

Bob

[tabbu]

It's been interesting to read about your process, althought I don't know anything about scripting.

What is amazing that Alex W in the VI forums seems to have found a solution. At least listening his demos, I don't hear any problems, just nice smooth legato effect.

But I hope that these problems will be solved someday

[kotori]

Hey Nils,

re: Your amplifier modulation idea as a work-around for the change_vol() function, as I thought a little about it last night, it dawned on me that it would be very limited because we wouldn't have individual note control. Doesn't the amplifier affect the entire group it's assigned to? So we couldn't use this technique to produce shaped crossfades of two notes for example. Or am I missing something?
Bob
Yes, it only works at the group level. I hoped that there would be some way to get it work at the note level, but it doesn't seem possible. I guess the modulators work in different ways. I mean 'velocity' modulates volume but pressing a second note hard doesn't raise the volume of an earlier note. So the velocity modulator doesn't work in the same way as a CC modulator, even though they are both in the same group of external modulators. I guess we will just have to hope for NI to solve the problem then.

tabbu: Hi, I think the problem we're discussing only affects vibrato, so legato should still work fine and vibrato works as well with the right settings.

Best,
Nils

[Thonex]

Hi Thonex,
they are not part of the Kontakt script syntax. It's an extension I made to the syntax. That's why one has to compile the code - on compilation these functions are translated to ordinary script syntax. For more information about functions and how to use them in your own scripts please see my introduction to functions (http://www.nilsliberg.se/ksp/using_functions.py). If you have any question about using functions feel free to ask in this thread (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41716).

Best,
Nils

Hi Nils,

I just wanted to thank you again for a great Script editor (sorry Bob for going off topic here) and that Functions command is brilliant. It makes programming way easier to keep track of.

Thanks again,

T

[Big Bob]

Hey T,

Hi Nils,

I just wanted to thank you again for a great Script editor (sorry Bob for going off topic here) and that Functions command is brilliant. It makes programming way easier to keep track of.

Thanks again,

TIt's not off-topic and I fully agree with you. I'd like to see everyone using Nils' Editor. It looks like it will be a long wait before we can hope to see NI add 'user functions' to the KSP. So, we should all thank Nils for giving us that extension at the source code level because it does make it so much easier to read and maintain.

Bob

[tabbu]

tabbu: Hi, I think the problem we're discussing only affects vibrato, so legato should still work fine and vibrato works as well with the right settings.

Best,
Nils

Oh, right. Nevertheless I hope you find a solution. I'm planning to add artificial vibrato to my custom samples.

Going a bit OT here, but I know that this vibrato script is mainly for solo instruments. How does it sound with bigger sections, let's say violin ensemble? I mean that could it sound more fake when every player does the same vibrato? I'm just wondering how should I record violin ensemble and should I record different vibratos live...

[Big Bob]

Hi Tabbu,

Going a bit OT here, but I know that this vibrato script is mainly for solo instruments. How does it sound with bigger sections, let's say violin ensemble? I mean that could it sound more fake when every player does the same vibrato?

You're right, both the LVT is intended only for solo instruments. In fact, the next release (which has the two effects in separate cascadeable scripts) has been renamed SIPS for Solo Instrument Performance Suite.

If you want to add vibrato to a section, you would have to build the section yourself by multitracking a bunch of solo instruments and perhaps use somewhat different settings for each. If the section already exists as a single sample, I don't know of any magical way that you could 'effect' a different vibrato for each player in the section.

Bob

[kotori]

tabbu, one thing you could try is to cascade J's Ensemble Maker script (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42142) with SIPS using a solo instrument. I don't know whether it would work, but I can see no reason why it wouldn't (for vibrato that is).

[Mr. Fels]

Hey guys, this is my first time working with scripts. When I take the compiled code from Nils' program with Bob's LVT code, I paste it in K2. However, the only thing that pastes to it is " on init". I called the code "Nils", and it appears as a choice under the scripting section, but when I click on it, I get nothing, no toolbar just blank space. Where did I go wrong? Thanks.

[Big Bob]

Mr. Fels,

Hey guys, this is my first time working with scripts. When I take the compiled code from Nils' program with Bob's LVT code, I paste it in K2. However, the only thing that pastes to it is " on init". I called the code "Nils", and it appears as a choice under the scripting section, but when I click on it, I get nothing, no toolbar just blank space. Where did I go wrong? Thanks.
Some of your terminology is a little unclear so it's hard to tell from your description just what your problem is. How about if I just give you a step by step?

1. Launch both K2 and the NL Editor.

2. In K2, drag some instrument to the rack to load it.

3. If it's not already active, click the Script Editor Button on the right
side under the intrument's header. This will bring up the Script control panel.
There should be 5 tabs visible along the top, preferably all saying <empty>. If not, the instrument you loaded already has one or more scripts saved with the preset. If so, load a different instrument until you find one that doesn't already have scripts attached. Or, if you know how, delete the scripts and resave the instrument preset under a new name.

4. Now, click the leftmost of the 5 <empty> tabs and then click on the Edit button in the lower left corner of the script control panel. This will open the KSP editor which should initially contain no text.

5. In Nils' editor, load the LVT .txt file so the LVT script is visible. Then hit F5 to compile the script and put it in the clipboard.

6. Now, in K2, click in the KSP editor to make it active. Then hit ctl-A followed by ctl-V. This should paste the K2-ready script into the KSP editor.

7. Finally, click the Apply button to have K2 compile the code. The LVT control panel should then appear and be ready to run.

Bob

[Mr. Fels]

Thank you, Bob. It was a rookie mistake, ctl A + v that was holding me up.

[Big Bob]

Hi Guys,

Just so you don't think that I 'fell in somewhere', I thought I had better post a progress report. SIPS (the successor to the LVT) is just about completed and with a whole bunch of new features and performance upgrades. Currently I'm working on one last set of performance enhancements that I think will take it over the top. Since I think that these final enhancements are worth waiting for, I've decided not to post the SIPS until they are in and working.

At lease part of the delay in releasing SIPS was due to the loss of nearly two solid weeks while my wife and I coughed and wheezed and swapped some biological bug back and forth (imagine violins playing in the background;) ).

But, we're back on track now and hopefully it won't be too much longer before SIPS is a reality. For those who tuned in late, SIPS stands for Solo Instrument Performance Suite and it will initially be released with a pair of cascadeable scripts (that will provide the Legato and Vibrato functions). So stay tuned.

God Bless

Bob

[Thonex]

Bob,

Glad to see you and your wife are feeling better. My entire family was wiped out for a couple weeks too.... not fun... especially with a 2 and 4 year old :rolleyes:
Cheers,

T

[ddarwin7]

Hi Guys,

At lease part of the delay in releasing SIPS was due to the loss of nearly two solid weeks while my wife and I coughed and wheezed and swapped some biological bug back and forth (imagine violins playing in the background;) ).

But, we're back on track now and hopefully it won't be too much longer before SIPS is a reality. For those who tuned in late, SIPS stands for Solo Instrument Performance Suite and it will initially be released with a pair of cascadeable scripts (that will provide the Legato and Vibrato functions). So stay tuned.

God Bless

Bob


Hi Big Bob;

Being under the weather always sucks. Not a good feeling. But, I am so glad that you and wife and feeling better.

Cheers

[ddarwin7]

Hi again Big Bob:

The problem I mentioned in the earlier post happened again. I lose the vibrato everytime I either record or play the sequencer (Cubase SX). For example, lets say I load up a violin sample in K2 and then load the script and set all the vibrato and bends the way you want, and it plays fine, but then if I want to record it and hit record button. No vibrato. Midi CC for vibrato set to 0. Any solution. I know you are working on the mega solo script. But just thought I'd let you know.

Thanks for all the help Big Bob

[Big Bob]

Hi ddarwin7,

Hi again Big Bob:

The problem I mentioned in the earlier post happened again. I lose the vibrato everytime I either record or play the sequencer (Cubase SX). For example, lets say I load up a violin sample in K2 and then load the script and set all the vibrato and bends the way you want, and it plays fine, but then if I want to record it and hit record button. No vibrato. Midi CC for vibrato set to 0. Any solution. I know you are working on the mega solo script. But just thought I'd let you know.

Thanks for all the help Big Bob


Since I don't use your sequencer, I would have no way to try what you have outlined. There are so many things that are involved when running K2 as a plugin. In order to hunt this down you would have to provide me with a procedure that reliably produces the problem with K2 in standalone mode. Maybe you ought to wait until I release the successor (won't be much longer now) and see if you still have this problem. The new performance suite may behave differently since the Vibrato Script has been separated out to run subordinate to the Legato Script. As I indicated earlier, there are some 'note-at-a-time' control issues with the LVT and these may possibly be contributing to your problem.

BTW My buddy Gary has been encouraging me to rename SIPS again:confused: . So, don't be too surprised when it appears if it's called something else. But, whatever it's called, it's going to be a very spiffy pair of performance scripts. Stay tuned.

God Bless,

Bob

[hendyb]

Is there any demos that showing off this K2 script in action?
thanks

[Big Bob]

Hi hendyb,


Is there any demos that showing off this K2 script in action?
thanks


Hopefully there will be a couple of nice Demos available right around the same time as the 'newly re-named (again)' Ultra-Pro Performance Suite is released. Actually I have been collaborating with Gary Lionelli (aka Up Late) who has been testing the scripts and providing invaluable input regarding their musicality. He has actually done more with the scripts musically than I have so far, so he's going to get to do the honors when it comes to producing a few demos. Right now Gary is kind of swamped, but hopefully he'll be able to break some time loose soon to work on the demos.

Meanwhile, we're on the final round of adding and testing enhancements so it shouldn't be too long now. So, stay tuned 'cause it'll be worth waiting for (besides you can't beat the price:) ).

God Bless,

Bob

[Theodor]

Heheh, gotta love the new name! Ultra-Pro Performance Suit

Two thumbs UPPS for that :)

[Raindog]

Hi hendyb,



Hopefully there will be a couple of nice Demos available right around the same time as the 'newly re-named (again)' Ultra-Pro Performance Suite is released. Actually I have been collaborating with Gary Lionelli (aka Up Late) who has been testing the scripts and providing invaluable input regarding their musicality. He has actually done more with the scripts musically than I have so far, so he's going to get to do the honors when it comes to producing a few demos. Right now Gary is kind of swamped, but hopefully he'll be able to break some time loose soon to work on the demos.

Meanwhile, we're on the final round of adding and testing enhancements so it shouldn't be too long now. So, stay tuned 'cause it'll be worth waiting for (besides you can't beat the price:) ).

God Bless,

Bob


Just wanted to tell you once again how much myself and I think everyone else here on the forum appreciate the amount of work you put into this script. Thanks very much.

As you seem to be releasing it for free and you also seem to be a religiously active person you could suggest every user to donate some money to a charity organisation of your (or of the user´s) choice.

[hendyb]

Wow.. okay then, I'll be patiently wait..
Hopefully it'll release soon though.... :o

[Big Bob]

Hey Raindog,

As you seem to be releasing it for free and you also seem to be a religiously active person you could suggest every user to donate some money to a charity organisation of your (or of the user´s) choice.How very charitable of you to suggest such a thing. Being an evangelical Christian, I would of course be thrilled if you or anyone else were to make a contribution to the Lord's work as the 'Spirit Moves You'. But, I don't want anyone to feel under any obligation to do so. I'm always glad when I can do something that others may benefit from. After all, 'tis more blessed to give than receive' and I'm just laying up treasures in heaven :) .

Have a great day,

Bob

[Raindog]

Hey Raindog,

How very charitable of you to suggest such a thing. Being an evangelical Christian, I would of course be thrilled if you or anyone else were to make a contribution to the Lord's work as the 'Spirit Moves You'. But, I don't want anyone to feel under any obligation to do so. I'm always glad when I can do something that others may benefit from. After all, 'tis more blessed to give than receive' and I'm just laying up treasures in heaven :) .

Have a great day,

Bob

You´re a gentleman in the true sense :)

[ddarwin7]

Hey Raindog,

How very charitable of you to suggest such a thing. Being an evangelical Christian, I would of course be thrilled if you or anyone else were to make a contribution to the Lord's work as the 'Spirit Moves You'. But, I don't want anyone to feel under any obligation to do so. I'm always glad when I can do something that others may benefit from. After all, 'tis more blessed to give than receive' and I'm just laying up treasures in heaven :) .

Have a great day,

Bob

God bless you too Big Bob. I think you are just a wonderful person, and a great example and role model for many.

Thank you so much for everything you do and provide in this forum.

[Big Bob]

Hi Guys,

Here's another belated status report so you don't think I've died and gone to heaven. By now SIPS-Legato and SIPS-Vibrato probably should have been posted but like all good plans of mice and men ....

My early collaborator (Mr Up Late) was very helpful with determining the 'musicality' of the script and in designing the Human Interface to be 'musician-friendly'. But when we got to the final rounds where he was planning on designing presets and creating .mp3 demo files, he became extremely busy with mundane things like paying clients and such:cool: . Unfortunately (from the point of view of SIPS development), his workload is now such that he won't be able to complete the remaining tasks within any reasonable period of time.

I don't have the orchestral libraries needed to design presets and such but fortunately, Theo Krueger and Thonex have offered to pitch in and finish up with the musical side of things while I finish up the User's Guide.

Sorry for having to report yet another delay but, hang in there, it shouldn't be too much longer now (where have we heard that before?). And remember you can't beat the price;) (unless someone is offering to pay you to use their Legato script, if so :p ).

God Bless,

Bob

BTW It isn't like there hasn't been any progress since my last report, after all I've changed the name back to SIPS:confused: .

[Thonex]

We'll do our best Bob.

Cheers,

T

[kotori]

BTW It isn't like there hasn't been any progress since my last report, after all I've changed the name back to SIPS:confused: .I should've seen that one coming... :D
Good luck with the remaining parts - both to you and the team.

Nils

[Big Bob]

Hi Guys,

Here's yet another SIPS status report (one of these fine days you're going to see a post that says 'SIPS Now Available For Download', but unfortunately, this isn't that post).

The most significant thing that has happened since my last post is that the name has been changed from SIPS to GULPS (just kidding, the name is still SIPS;) ).

Actually, things are really zipping along pretty good. On my end, I've finished the documentation package including a 20+ page User's Guide. On the other end, Theo has been cranking out presets and then lovingly tweaking them as he creates demos with them. I haven't actually heard any of the demos yet but Theo says he's got some violin and viola sounds that are so realistic that, and I quote, they "brought tears to my eyes! Amazing...you have to hear this".

To further whet your appetite, here's another recent quote from Theo:
"...this script has taken desktop music to a new era!!! I am so serious.. now i can't imagine writing music again without this."

In the meantime, Andrew hasn't quite gotten rolling yet due to some recent health problems with his 4-year old daughter. She is apparently doing much better now, but, keep her in your prayers.

Bottom line, it shouldn't be too much longer now before I can say SIPS is available for download. Hang in there, it will be worth the wait. And again, remember that you can't easily beat the price:) .

God Bless,

Bob

[Raindog]

Hi Guys,

Here's yet another SIPS status report (one of these fine days you're going to see a post that says 'SIPS Now Available For Download', but unfortunately, this isn't that post).

The most significant thing that has happened since my last post is that the name has been changed from SIPS to GULPS (just kidding, the name is still SIPS;) ).

Actually, things are really zipping along pretty good. On my end, I've finished the documentation package including a 20+ page User's Guide. On the other end, Theo has been cranking out presets and then lovingly tweaking them as he creates demos with them. I haven't actually heard any of the demos yet but Theo says he's got some violin and viola sounds that are so realistic that, and I quote, they "brought tears to my eyes! Amazing...you have to hear this".

To further whet your appetite, here's another recent quote from Theo:
"...this script has taken desktop music to a new era!!! I am so serious.. now i can't imagine writing music again without this."

In the meantime, Andrew hasn't quite gotten rolling yet due to some recent health problems with his 4-year old daughter. She is apparently doing much better now, but, keep her in your prayers.

Bottom line, it shouldn't be too much longer now before I can say SIPS is available for download. Hang in there, it will be worth the wait. And again, remember that you can't easily beat the price:) .

God Bless,

Bob

Hi BigBob,
thanks very much for the extensive status report. I still can´t believe that you all are doing this in your free time. I´ll include the whole team (kids inclusive) in my prayers :)
regards
Raindog

[Robert Kooijman]

Bob, you and the team are doing an incredible job. Respect!

[Big Bob]

Hi Everyone,

Here comes my weekly (or is it weakly?) fly-paper report on SIPS. If you suspect that this clever introduction means that SIPS still isn't on Theo's site for download, you guessed correctly. But, good things are happening.

Theo delivered almost 20 presets along with some short .mp3's illustrating the sounds obtained using these presets. In addition, he's planning on creating a few, more-lavish .mp3 demos that he promises will showcase the full capabilities of SIPS when you 'pull out all the stops'. However, Theo has also decided to take a short vacation before bearing down on the remaining tasks. So, he's been 'out of touch' since about last Friday. But he should be back before my next status report (which might just well be the last one before release).

Meanwhile, Andrew's 2-year old son decided to get the same bug that made his 4-year-old daughter so sick about a week ago and the last I heard, Andrew was worried that he and his wife might be next. Please keep Andrew and his family in your prayers, because I haven't heard from him for quite a few days now.

Meanwhile, with Theo gone and Andrew battling family health problems, I decided to take advantage of the time alone and do all the things that I usually can't do when these guys are sending a barrage of emails back and forth. So, I fixed all known issues with SIPS that I had collected and added some nice new features including the ability to save User Presets. So, I've just sent out (what hopefully will be) the 2nd-last beta version to the crew, but, before updating the User's Guide to include all the new features, I'm working on an import/export scheme.

As most of you may know, when scripts are written using the 'persistent' option, you can save all your panel settings either with the script .nkp or with the instrument .nki. Then when you reload the instrument or reload the script, your panel settings are restored. However, one 'hole' in this scheme is that if you have to edit the source code and re-compile (by hitting the Apply button), or, if the script author releases an updated version, there is no way to hang onto your lovingly-tweaked panel settings other than to write them down and then re-enter them all over again. In other words, there is presently no way to export your settings from an old version and import them into a new version. Now, if you think that it's tedious re-entering all your panel settings (usually consisting of around 8 to 10 parameters), imagine what it will be like if you have 20 sets of panel settings to re-enter:mad: .

SIPS provides about 20 built-in instrument presets, but, also allows you to save up to 20 custom presets that you lovingly design. Each member-script preset has on the order of 10 key parameters to set. So if you fill up all 20 User Presets and then we release an update, you're looking at writing down and re-entering on the order of 200 parameters! More if you are very prolific and save several sets of 20 user presets.

If the scheme I'm working on now is successful, I'm going to add an import/export feature to SIPS that will allow you to circumvent this KSP limitation and port your user presets across version changes, etc.

Since Theo has done most all of the preset design so far, I've asked him to write a short section for the User's Guide outlining his tips and techniques for creating presets. So that's one more task that's waiting for Theo to return. Let's pray that he returns 'fresh as a daisy' and raring to go back to work on SIPS.

I know you would much rather that I began this status report with the announcement that SIPS was now available for download, but, I think that the new features added in the last week alone are well worth waiting a little longer. In any case, the Good Lord willing, it shouldn't be too much longer now.

God Bless,

Bob

[T. S.]

Hehe, this is like being a kid, just knowing Santa Claus will be coming down the chimney any moment now. :D

[MotuHari]

Bob,
Looking forward to the mp3's. Thanks for all your hard work!:)

[Thonex]

Please keep Andrew and his family in your prayers, because I haven't heard from him for quite a few days now.

Thanks Bob. The little ones are better now. They both had viral pneumonia and were rushed to the ER. After getting breathing treatments and an antibiotic treatment (to avoid bacterial complications from the congested lungs) and a week of rest they are doing fine and are all better except for a nasty cough.

Thanks for the kind thoughts

Cheers,

T

[pmwaring]

Glad to see you're all pulling through.

[Big Bob]

Hi Guys,

I am indeed very pleased to tell you that SIPS (at long last) is 'going out the door' tomorrow (the Good Lord Willing). I don't know how long it will take Theo to get it installed on his site, but, watch for it. I'll also post one more time after I see it up on his site just to let you know it's there.

The scripts have a lot of presets done by Theo, Andrew, and Martin and for every preset there is a short mp3 demo. Theo and Andrew also did a few orchestrations that Theo may also put up if bandwidth allows.

I've had a lot of help from some very talented guys and I know from their feedback that you're very likely to find this tool quite useful. Just to sort of whet your appetite a little, here is a recent quote from Martin:

"I didn't expect the level of realism and expression that this would
bring to my sampled instruments. The Dan Dean Brass that I've been
working with is a great library, but an older one without all the
features of newer offerings like Vienna and so on. These scripts are
literally breathing new life into the samples, and I can get them to
sound more expressive than I ever could before.

We already knew the potential of the legato script, but now I'm just
as impressed with the SVS. In fact, I think I even like using your
script better than the real vibrato instruments that are included
with the library. With the real vibrato recording, you are stuck with
a nice, but static, vibrato that you can't modulate over time. With
the script, you can use controllers to change the parameters and this
can make the music sound more "lifelike". And maybe someone with
better ears than I have can hear the difference between the script
and real vibrato, but I personally can't, at least not on the little
snippet that I worked on today. So I guess this means it's at least
very close to the real thing.

Again, I want to thank and congratulate you on the work you've done.
Not only on the scripts, but also on the docs which are really clear
and easy to understand. Particularly your guidelines on starting up
with programming the scripts (as well as Theo and Andrew's advice
sections) have really helped me quickly create some presets that I'm
happy with."

Well, that about says it all so,

Happy Easter everyone.

God Bless,

Bob

[ddarwin7]

Hi Guys,

I am indeed very pleased to tell you that SIPS (at long last) is 'going out the door' tomorrow (the Good Lord Willing). I don't know how long it will take Theo to get it installed on his site, but, watch for it. I'll also post one more time after I see it up on his site just to let you know it's there.

The scripts have a lot of presets done by Theo, Andrew, and Martin and for every preset there is a short mp3 demo. Theo and Andrew also did a few orchestrations that Theo may also put up if bandwidth allows.

God Bless,

Bob

Hi there Bib Bob:

I am quite excited about this release, as I've been eagerly waiting for this script. I can't thank you (Bib Bob) and crew for all the hours and effort you put into this so that others may be able to use it.

Thanks again so much and I'll check back again soon.

[Big Bob]

Hi Guys,

This will be the last post to this thread just to tell you that SIPS is now up and available on Theo's site. I'm going to start a new thread now to announce this by simply repeating an edited version of my prior post.

Made it before Easter, how about that.

God Bless,

Bob

[EarlRShay]

Curious as to ways to utilize "ready made" velocities from Human Playback, I exported velocities from a short test file from Finale, and used the search function to export the data to Excel.

The results were very interesting, at the low or minimum change of velocity were of course None, Standard and the "Classical" Styles, with the greatest variation in the Reggae and Jazz.

Unfortunately no luck uploading the .doc and xls files.

Best wishes,
Earl