Synful: Don´t know how to play it properly or did I miss something

[Raindog]

I´m just about to put a violin solo into an Argentinian tango I made quite recently. I used the Emerald solo strings with very pleasing results (waiting for the legato version with Kirk´s fantastic script...hint, hint :|: ) and then though I could have another go with Synful. Generously enough, they provide a second demo chance for 15 days, getting a license was no problem.

But when I tried to perform a solo violin it just sounded awful like a cheap synth workstation. I tried to implement my volume pedal, expression controller and modwheel but it still sounds awful.
Listening to the demos I got the expression that it´s not perfect but overall sounds quite convincing.

What´s the secret of this beast that I may have missed or misunderstood in the instructions or would you advice me to go for Garritan´s strad if I need a solo violin anyway (though I will definitely wait how Kirk´s solo violin performs with the script)?

Thanks for any help and suggestion
Regards
Raindog

[Theodor]

Hi Raindog,

I guess this is a silly question, but did you enable the "Delay for Expression" button from within Synful? That is what connects all the notes and creates the legato

Apart from that generally it's good to have some random mohweel to make the sound more alive, activating "Synful Pitch wheel" (however it's called) to introduce small bends can make it livelier too.

[Raindog]

Hi Raindog,

I guess this is a silly question, but did you enable the "Delay for Expression" button from within Synful? That is what connects all the notes and creates the legato

Apart from that generally it's good to have some random mohweel to make the sound more alive, activating "Synful Pitch wheel" (however it's called) to introduce small bends can make it livelier too.

Hi Theodor and thanks a lot for the quick reply. The problem with DfE is that it (through it´s mode of action) can´t be used when playing a part live into a sequencer.
With DfE turned off, Synful sounds so mediocre that it´s hardly inspiring when you do some composing. I think even when playing from a score the cheap sound influences the way you perform. It may be a theoretically nice and interesting instrument but the "performance feel good factor" is somwhere below zero as the instrument just sounds extremely cheap when turning DfE off. I there anything I could do better or is this just the berry I have to swallow when playing Synful?
Best regards
Raindog

[Theodor]

Hi Raindog,

So live playing eh? I'm afraid that's gonna be a tough one with Synful. You could always play a part as you like it and then do the tweaking and adding controllers later (recording just the modwheel and adding various slur lengths to the notes). I guess the best bet for you would be the Stradivari, but waiting for Kirks scripts ain't a bad idea either.

Regards,
Theo

[Raindog]

Hi Raindog,

So live playing eh? I'm afraid that's gonna be a tough one with Synful. You could always play a part as you like it and then do the tweaking and adding controllers later (recording just the modwheel and adding various slur lengths to the notes). I guess the best bet for you would be the Stradivari, but waiting for Kirks scripts ain't a bad idea either.

Regards,
Theo

Hi Theo,
thanks again for sharing your synful experience (:) ). Actually, I hoped this instrument would be more inspiring when playing the tracks into the sequencer. Unfortunately, (or fortunately?) my way of composing is very "online" or "on the fly" that´s why I need an inspiring instrument. I think this is one weakness of the synful concept but I may give it another try tonight.
regards
Raindog

[artsoundz]

I have synful and I understand. I love it but if you need the immeadiate thing you should beg boorrow steal Garritians Stradivarius. I got mine last week and it's so nice. Also, w/ Synful once you REALLY have the volume.pitch.mod going-it goes a long way to making synful sound organic. Takes a bit of work.

[leogardini]

Long notes always need swells...you have endless possibilities of swells with Synful and it takes time to learn how to use it but the great thing is that (unlike samples) after some working you are always sure it can sound the way you hear in your mind...also , work the modwheel for vibrato , full vibrato all the time makes it less expressive!!!

[Raindog]

Long notes always need swells...you have endless possibilities of swells with Synful and it takes time to learn how to use it but the great thing is that (unlike samples) after some working you are always sure it can sound the way you hear in your mind...also , work the modwheel for vibrato , full vibrato all the time makes it less expressive!!!

I very much appreciate the offline possibilities of Synful though I begin to realise, based on the previous comments, that the live possibilities of Synful are very limited. Therefore it doesn´t seem to be the right tool for my style of composing which is mainly based on live playing.
I think that will be a major challenge for future sample-based instruments: To make them playable instruments as tweaking and editing midi events on a computer seems like a strange way of making music to me.

Maybe instruments like the Garritan stradivari are the way to go (at least for me)

Regards
Raindog

[leogardini]

I very much appreciate the offline possibilities of Synful though I begin to realise, based on the previous comments, that the live possibilities of Synful are very limited. Therefore it doesn´t seem to be the right tool for my style of composing which is mainly based on live playing.
I think that will be a major challenge for future sample-based instruments: To make them playable instruments as tweaking and editing midi events on a computer seems like a strange way of making music to me.

Maybe instruments like the Garritan stradivari are the way to go (at least for me)

Regards
Raindog

I agree...Synful , and any library , can´t sound realistic if you need to play live...this is a challenge for developers that will never be better than the real players!!!

[Joanne Babunovic]

I remember sharmy and others doing some great things with synful violin. Craig, if you are around, did you mostly play the lead synful violin part on the fly using the modwheel, or was most of it crafting in midi sequencer note by note?

[ddarwin7]

Actually, I've been on the fence with either getting Garritan Strad or the Synful Orch. I've tried the Synful and I like what it has to offer, but don't have the luxury of trying the garritan strad, before making a decision. The primary solo instruments of interest to me are the violins and Cellos. The hefty price tag of Synful is what's pushing me more toward the strad. But I need to get something very soon.

With Synful, it takes a little getting used to, to get the feel of the instrument. Once you get the feel of the instrument and have some understanding of how a real player may play some of the phrases, you get a better feel for playing the instrument. What I would do before playing Synful violin(for example), is listen to lots of real violin solo pieces and try to mimic that sound, so get a feel of when to accent, when to use the bend for smooth note transitions and so onn. The more I listen to real violin pieces, the more I feel like I've improved with synful, even within the 15 day trial period. I always felt like you get the most out of it if you used a midi volume pedal, bend wheel, and modwheel for vibrato in a continously flowing yet dynamically changing manner.

[Raindog]

Actually, I've been on the fence with either getting Garritan Strad or the Synful Orch. I've tried the Synful and I like what it has to offer, but don't have the luxury of trying the garritan strad, before making a decision. The primary solo instruments of interest to me are the violins and Cellos. The hefty price tag of Synful is what's pushing me more toward the strad. But I need to get something very soon.

With Synful, it takes a little getting used to, to get the feel of the instrument. Once you get the feel of the instrument and have some understanding of how a real player may play some of the phrases, you get a better feel for playing the instrument. What I would do before playing Synful violin(for example), is listen to lots of real violin solo pieces and try to mimic that sound, so get a feel of when to accent, when to use the bend for smooth note transitions and so onn. The more I listen to real violin pieces, the more I feel like I've improved with synful, even within the 15 day trial period. I always felt like you get the most out of it if you used a midi volume pedal, bend wheel, and modwheel for vibrato in a continously flowing yet dynamically changing manner.

But playing a violin line with Synful with the idea in mind that one plays like a real violinist is a bit like playing Chopin on a Wurlitzer. You get the idea but you have to be very imaginative to get an idea how it would sound on a Steinway. If Synful would be a bit more sample based, it could sound better from scratch and not like a cheap synth. I think combining Synful´s engine with the samples of other libraries like Emerald or VSL would be just perfect (but maybe it´s not possible due to technical restrictions).
Raindog