STEINWAY & SONS ANNOUNCES NEW SOFTWARE PIANO VENTURE WITH GARRITAN

[Garritan]

STEINWAY & SONS ANNOUNCES NEW
SOFTWARE PIANO VENTURE WITH GARRITAN



NAMM Convention, Anaheim, CA (January 19, 2006) — Steinway & Sons, maker of the world's finest pianos, and Garritan, makers of the world's finest music soundware, announce a new venture to create a series of Authorized Steinway Piano sample-based software instruments.

The Authorized Steinway Piano sample library is a new sample-based software instrument that accurately captures the sound of a Steinway & Sons concert grand piano. This new software instrument will allow the musician to play a virtual Steinway Model D concert piano with unprecedented authenticity and musicality. The library will offer more than seven different listening perspectives, including a player perspective from the bench, a classical recording perspective, an under the lid perspective, and a 5.1 surround sound hall perspective.

"This was a very important project for Steinway & Sons”, states Gary Green, Vice President of Business Development and Customer Satisfaction. “We have long recognized the need for a Steinway sampled sound set that would best reflect the complex architectures of the Steinway sound. We also understand the importance of quality samples and their use by amateur music enthusiasts, as well as, prominent producers, composers, recording studios and other venues. We were extremely lucky to have Gary Garritan work with us on this technically and musically complex project. Although both Steinway & Sons and Gary Garritan recognize that nothing can replace the actual Steinway piano, we are extremely delighted that there is now a sampling product that comes closest to capturing the distinctive Steinway sound that we are proud to endorse."

"Steinway pianos have set the bar of excellence in pianos," said Gary Garritan. "Our goal is to develop with Steinway & Sons the highest quality piano sample library ever produced, one that will once again set the standard in quality and innovation.”

At the heart of the Authorized Steinway Piano sample library will be the sound of the instrument. To realize the full, rich essence of a Steinway piano, extreme care was taken in the recording process. The Steinway concert grand piano that was recorded is one of Steinway's finest Model D pianos, newly voiced, regulated, and tuned by an expert technician. The perfect instrument was hand-picked by Steinway & Sons and delivered to the concert hall for recording. The site for the recording was also selected by Steinway, and the choice was clear.

Not many are aware that one of the greatest concert halls in the world is located in downtown Troy, New York. The Troy Savings Bank Music Hall is a National Treasure and is world-renowned for its acoustics, particularly for piano performances. Designed by George Brown Post, and opened in 1875, the 1,250 seat Troy Savings Bank Music Hall has hosted many of the world’s finest pianists including Steinway artists: Sergei Rachmaninoff, Vladimir Horowitz, Ignacy Jan Paderewski, Myra Hess, and Artur Rubenstein, among many others. The wonderfully strong, rich and clear sound of this concert hall is unparalleled.

Steinway & Sons provided one of their best concert technicians for the recording sessions. Eric Shandall, Administrator of Technical Training, attended all the sessions monitoring each note to ensure the best possible sound from the instrument. Eric Shandall has traveled extensively giving classes for technicians, and tuning for concerts by Steinway artists such as Evgeny Kissin and others. Classical recording engineer Brian C. Peters was in charge of recording. Peters brings over 18 years of classical recording experience – including over 400 records for the award-winning audiophile record label Dorian Records.

Expected release is the Spring of 2006.

About Steinway & Sons

Steinway & Sons, headquartered in New York, produces the world's finest pianos. Steinway pianos are sold by nearly 200 authorized dealers worldwide. The company's corporate parent is Steinway Musical Instruments, Inc., which also owns Conn-Selmer, the nation's leading manufacturer of orchestra and band instruments. Steinway Musical Instruments, Inc. is listed on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol LVB for Ludwig van Beethoven. Steinway & Sons was founded on March 5, 1853 by German immigrant Henry Engelhard Steinway and his sons in New York City, one of the major centers of the piano-making industry in North America at that time. Henry, a master piano-maker, built his first piano in the kitchen of his home in Germany. Over the next forty years, Henry and his sons developed the modern piano, patenting the most significant technologies in the piano industry.

About Garritan Libraries

Garritan is a leader and innovator of sample libraries and soundware. Garritan has received many industry awards and accolades in the music press and among professional musicians. Garritan libraries are required for classes in leading music colleges and are the first sample libraries that integrate with popular notation programs, such as Finale and Sibelius. Garritan sound libraries are known the world over for quality and are an indispensable staple in many film, television and interactive productions, as well as live performances.

[etLux]

Bravo!

David
www.DavidSosnowski.com
-

[DPDAN]

I can't wait to get a piano that is tuned perfectly.

Awesome Gary!

WOO HOO!!!!!

Dan :)

[Drumroll]

WOW!!! Congratulations Gary!

[etLux]

I can't wait to get a piano that is tuned perfectly.

I'm not sure I could play one if it was.
.

[SeanHannifin]

:eek: THAT'S AWESOME!!

My sincere congratulations, Mr. Garritan! :) This sounds like a very promising venture! I look forward to it!

[DPDAN]

Let me rephrase that... I can't wait to get a piano that does not have any tuning issues with any of the 88 keys. They all need to be in tune.

:)
pickydeepeedan

[steve martin]

Wow! This is fantastic news!
Can't wait to hear the demo's!

[cptexas]

Oh geez, and right after I got Piano Magic for the PMI group buy. :D (OK, not RIGHT after, but perty darn close)

Congrats, Gary!!
This is fantastic news!!
Can't wait!! (once again *drool*)

-Chris

[Styxx]

The best just keeps getting better! Congratulations Gary and Steinway & Son's !
What next Gary, the Hammond B3? ;)

Author's note: This article should not be construed as legal advice or as pertaining to specific factual situations.

[trentpmcd]

Great News! Congrats for getting such a great gig - the official Steinway sample set - wow!

[efiebke]

First thing is first:

Congratulations! :D


Second thing. . .


Not many are aware that one of the greatest concert halls in the world is located in downtown Troy, New York. The Troy Savings Bank Music Hall is a National Treasure and is world-renowned for its acoustics, particularly for piano performances. Designed by George Brown Post, and opened in 1875, the 1,250 seat Troy Savings Bank Music Hall has hosted many of the world’s finest pianists including Steinway artists: Sergei Rachmaninoff, Vladimir Horowitz, Ignacy Jan Paderewski, Myra Hess, and Artur Rubenstein, among many others. The wonderfully strong, rich and clear sound of this concert hall is unparalleled.

I'm quite aware of the the acoustics to the Troy Savings Bank Music Hall! Been there a few times in my youth (many moons ago). And, it's about 20 miles from where I live. :D

In all honesty, I haven't been there in a long time. Didn't even know it was still open for concerts. :o And it is very cool to know that this piano library was recorded there (if I understand this announcement correctly).

Cheers! :)

Ted

[LouisD]

Mes félicitations! This is great news, and certainly something that I would have expected from two such remarkable companies!!:)

[RichR]

Congratulations!

Super!

Hooray for You and Great for us (the users)!

[Skysaw]

The Garritan Revolution marches on!

The composers of the world are forever in your debt. Keep the ideas and products rolling out, Gary & co!

[danpowers]

Congratulations! Can't wait to find out more.

(Maybe I should consider this for my Piano Concerto project. I'd bet it would blend nicely with GPOA.)

[sergiobklyn]

That's great news. And I was about to buy Ivory or Akoustik Piano.
Now a question that'll be popping up all the time: Is it out yet? :)

[Markleford]

Damn, sounds like sessions are in the can. Otherwise, I'd be demanding: PREPARED PIANO! :D

Kudos, Gary.

- m

[cptexas]

Gary, was this the 'secret project' you mentioned a while ago?

just curious, :)
-Chris

[Karl Garrett]

Gary,

Add my congrats to all the others here. So many toys, so little time. I'm just now beginning to get acquainted with JABB and I haven't even started with the Strad. Oh my, what are those pills they are giving to our troops in Iraq to keep them up for days? :D

Karl

[Fabio]

Sounds good...:D

[synthnut]

Gary,
WOW !!.....CONGRAT'S .....This is truely deserved !!.....I applaud you ! Sincerely, Jim

[88fingers]

Let me rephrase that... I can't wait to get a piano that does not have any tuning issues with any of the 88 keys. They all need to be in tune.

:)
pickydeepeedan


Did I hear someone say 88?

Congrats Gary. This sounds so exciting!

[tcohen]

Just when I thought that I had enough in the bank for GPOA - now - another part-time job!

Congratulations on this perfect match of excellence.

Regards,

Tim

[kurzman]

I am interested in the approach they take on this. Because Gary has always pushed for the notion that "bigger isn't always better" when it comes to the size of libraries. Ivory is huge! But it is because of all the subtle things you can get with it. And it has two perspectives (audience and player). So, my guess would be that this ends up being a BIG library since I imagine Steinway isn't going to want to put their name on something that doesn't sound just like you sat in front of the piano. Ivory is super great. So the only thing I can see them doing is just making more options and more samples (thus bigger library). I'll be surprised if it is not bigger than the Stradavari library.

[squoze]

Any chance this will include the effects of the resonance of the strings and soundboard when the damper pedal is pressed (damper resonance?)?
Does any software do that now?

[Styxx]

"isn't always" is the key phrase here. I would agree that the library would be bigger that SSV when thinking of all the considerations implicated. In support, Mr. Garritan never emphatically stated that BIGGER libraries ARE NOT better. On the contrary, I've heard Gary speak highly of "bigger" libraries. His expressions I believe are in support for those who might not meet the expense of such elaborate libraries thus, “Bigger isn't always better!” Regardless of the size, anyone who has experienced the virtuosity of Garritan products will find himself or herself standing in a long line to purchase his new developments.





Author's note: This article should not be construed as legal advice or as pertaining to specific factual situations.

[Scott McCallister]

There is an inexpensive library that does this. Have a look at http://www.ksounds.com (http://www.ksounds.com/) I recently picked up their Piano 2 (the Triton Version for my T-Extreme) that does this. Go have a listen. They have lots of demo snippets. He only had a Kawai Piano to deal with though. I personally don't mind the sound of a nice Kawai, I find it sometimes gives a more "accessible" quality to the music than the pristine sounds of a Steinway would.

It is certainly not the end all be all of all piano solutions, but for live applications, I now have a really decent piano with string resonance without having to haul a computer, etc, ad nauseum to a gig.

He is currently on the path of creating the libraries to work on established platforms on the hardware side. So if you have a keyboard or synth module that these can be loaded into, you are good to go. I asked if he was going to do a Steinway or Bosendorfer, and he said his is developing that now for gigastudio...

Which from what I understand comes bundled with a piano library that has a respectable set of samples (something like 3.2GB) with both pedal up and pedal down, so if each note is individually sampled with the pedal down, you should get all that additive and subtractive ambiance from the string resonance when notes are played together (or solo for that matter).

I'd be interested to know if the Garritan/Steinway project will try to model the hall this was recorded in as a discrete reverb unit that could be applied to other sounds as well?

[Groove]

This is great news! I hope it comes out soon so I can start using it! Great piano has always been one of my goals and even had been considering lately of buying a Yamaha C7 Disklavier....

Will this be offered as an Instrument Plugin?

Congrats on this new product, Gary! I'm sure it will do super well!!!

[rwayland]

Well, I was really holding out for the organ libraries. Now it looks like I will have to get both and blow the stuffings out of my budget!

Richard

[MarkOne]

I don't think anyone has touched on this yet...

... so I will, since I will need to get the capital asset request approved by powers that be (AKA: My wife :D !!)

Is there a target price?:eek:

I'm looking forward to the spring!!!

[newmewzikboy]

Jesus! How did this come together? This is WILD...

Well, at least it keeps Gary off the streets and calling me every five minutes...
:D

[sergiobklyn]

Is it spring yet?

[etLux]

Is it spring yet?
In which hemisphere?

[Tweedbox]

At the heart of the Authorized Steinway Piano sample library will be the sound of the instrument.

I found this to be one of the finer selling points of the library!:D ;)


Kidding aside, ya' got me very interested in this one. Would it be most people's guess that this will have it's own "universal" engine? This would normally seem obvious to me, but the Stradivari being a Kontakt library threw me off a bit. I'm one of the two guys who thought HALion was the way to go at the time. :n: :eek:

Excited to hear what's to come!

Best! -Tweed

[Garritan]

I don't think anyone has touched on this yet...

... so I will, since I will need to get the capital asset request approved by powers that be (AKA: My wife :D !!)You wife will like that it is less than the cost of a Steinway Model D. She may then like it so much that she'll but you a genuine Steinway piano :)


Is there a target price?:eek: There will be different target prices depending on the level.[/quote]

I'm looking forward to the spring!!!Me too! Spring fever! :D

[Garritan]

In which hemisphere?The left hemisphere :D

[Garritan]

Jesus! How did this come together? This is WILD...

Well, at least it keeps Gary off the streets and calling me every five minutes...
:DI'll be back on the streets soon enough and eager to call newmusikboy again on the partyline ;)

[Olivier]

Hi,

It's a good news that Garritan will sample Steinways.

I hope that the new software will allow to reproduce real sympatic resonance , with real release and real overtones.

And i hope that the Steinway will have a real tonal behaviour.

Regards,

Olivier, the mad (the Steinway's mad)

[Ashermusic]

Hi,

It's a good news that Garritan will sample Steinways.

I hope that the new software will allow to reproduce real sympatic resonance , with real release and real overtones.

And i hope that the Steinway will have a real tonal behaviour.

Regards,

Olivier, the mad (the Steinway's mad)

Me too, mostly so we can end Oliver's rants.

[Olivier]

Me too, mostly so we can end Oliver's rants.

Hi,

I understand that but i hate marketing products.

I just want that sampled pianos become better and no one more marketing thing.

:)

Peace,

Olivier

[Bruce A. Richardson]

I'll say this much...

I had a gig yesterday where I was playing a very nice piano, one of the best maintained and nicest sounding C7's I have ever played.

I had not played an acoustic piano for a couple of months before that.

What Olivier reminds us constantly is that sampled pianos DON'T resemble acoustic pianos a lot in behavior while playing. I was once again reminded, yesterday, of the wonderful ease of hovering just below the ensenble's radar, then with one gesture, being able to sweep in and take over the entire soundscape.

We often consider pianos the "closest" sample we have to reality. And that might be true. Yet, all one has to do is go play a real one on a gig, and immediately the limitations of samples rear their ugly heads.

So, Olivier may rant...but I say more power to him. Sometimes I get impatient with his obsession, then I go play on a great piano somewhere and his obsession makes perfect sense. We all have a contribution to make.

Interestingly, I came away from that gig this weekend feeling that the primary issue with piano libraries is still the dynamic distribution of strikes, and a tendency to undersample the pianissimo through mezzo forte range.

[Journeyman]

So, Olivier may rant...but I say more power to him. Bruce,

I hear what you're saying. But I know that I speak for many here when I say that if he's going to continuously rant about this in absolutely every sampled piano thread he can find, then let him do his ranting via email or Private Messages, directly to the developers. It's really getting old. Olivier should consider that the more he does this, the more we learn to ignore it; which is contrary to his intentions.

I think that everyone wants piano emulation to be the best it can be, while acknowledging that it will never replace the experience of the real deal. But IMHO, there's no reason he has to be an infernal pest about it.

[Jake Johnson]

I really can't see where his posts can be considered rants at all. This is a forum devoted to discussing sampling, and is the major gathering place for people examining the technical details of sampling. I come to this board to learn about and discuss the details of piano samples, including the concerns with harmonics and sympathetic resonance. Everyone is going to be fairly specialized in what he or she is examining. Long live specialization as a way to progress.

And when are we going to hear demos of this Steinway library?

[Journeyman]

Jake,

Are you aware of just how many times he's brought this up in various threads? After so many repetitions, they qualify as rants. His appearance is almost predictable in any sampled piano discussion, and his "discourse" always follows the same repetetive lines.

If he were someone (like you) who was genuinely contributing to the discussions he contributes to, I wouldn't bring it up.

[Olivier]

Hi,

The fact is that sampled library are not only "samples"

Most of sampled pianos are programmed. (pedal behaviour, release...)

We have the technology to create sampled piano library with enhanced soluce to reproduce real Piano behaviour.

Should we stay with old ideas ?

I've spent a lot of my free times (no money) to find soluce and improve piano library.

You will see this improvements in several updates of existing Piano library.

No money for me. I just love sampled piano and help existing developers to
improve their product.

The time i've spent to program better sampled piano library is rant for you ?

I should say nothing and let you to believe only the marketing rants
( for example on a web page of a sampled piano library "real sympatic resonance" -> when they are "no sympatic resonance" )


Olivier

First conservatory price of Piano in 1993

[Hermitage59]

I'll say this much...

I had a gig yesterday where I was playing a very nice piano, one of the best maintained and nicest sounding C7's I have ever played.

I had not played an acoustic piano for a couple of months before that.

What Olivier reminds us constantly is that sampled pianos DON'T resemble acoustic pianos a lot in behavior while playing. I was once again reminded, yesterday, of the wonderful ease of hovering just below the ensenble's radar, then with one gesture, being able to sweep in and take over the entire soundscape.

We often consider pianos the "closest" sample we have to reality. And that might be true. Yet, all one has to do is go play a real one on a gig, and immediately the limitations of samples rear their ugly heads.

So, Olivier may rant...but I say more power to him. Sometimes I get impatient with his obsession, then I go play on a great piano somewhere and his obsession makes perfect sense. We all have a contribution to make.

Interestingly, I came away from that gig this weekend feeling that the primary issue with piano libraries is still the dynamic distribution of strikes, and a tendency to undersample the pianissimo through mezzo forte range.

Yes, there's a powerful subtlety in a live grand, that hasn't been truly captured in a sample format, despite the stirling and clever efforts of many developers.

Something else to throw in the mix.

Is it possible that Midi limitations are responsible for the inherent flatness of tone and volume, with a fixed dynamic and velocity range before manipulation? I've often felt 0-127 isn't enough.

I also think Oliver's determination to chase 'perfection' as it were is admirable, and like Bruce and others i can understand his intent to encourage developers and users alike to reach for excellence.

Oliver, can i respectfully suggest you limit going over old ground, and submit more of your new ideas and comments? I've appreciated your enthusiasm, and wouldn't like your good intentions to be diminished by the familiar ones.


regards,

Alex.

[Brian2112]

Hi,

The fact is that sampled library are not only "samples"

Most of sampled pianos are programmed. (pedal behaviour, release...)

We have the technology to create sampled piano library with enhanced soluce to reproduce real Piano behaviour.

Should we stay with old ideas ?

I've spent a lot of my free times (no money) to find soluce and improve piano library.

You will see this improvements in several updates of existing Piano library.

No money for me. I just love sampled piano and help existing developers to
improve their product.

The time i've spent to program better sampled piano library is rant for you ?

I should say nothing and let you to believe only the marketing rants
( for example on a web page of a sampled piano library "real sympatic resonance" -> when they are "no sympatic resonance" )


Olivier

First conservatory price of Piano in 1993

I for one, am very thankful for Olivier's contributions to piano libaries. He has had innovative ideas that developers have incorporated - making their pianos better. Plus, to my ears, no one picks a better Steinway than Olivier. I trust his ears as much as mine.

...2112:)

[Olivier]

Oliver, can i respectfully suggest you limit going over old ground, and submit more of your new ideas and comments? I've appreciated your enthusiasm, and wouldn't like your good intentions to be diminished by the familiar ones.


regards,

Alex.

Hi Alex,

You are right. I will limit going over old ground.

:)

Hi Brian,

:)

Regards,

Olivier

[Journeyman]

You are right. I will limit going over old ground.
That's all I ask. Thank you for your consideration.

[Jake Johnson]

I still wonder how much a massive speaker cone would contribute to the realism of sampled pianos--say a cone as large or larger than an actual grand, with a good amp with enough juice to drive it.

Just for my living room.

[Garritan]

I too appreciate Olivier's contributions. We have been exploring the use of sympathetic resonance modeling. This approach is good but there are some drawbacks and we have delved into other options as well. We are getting closer but are still a ways off to replace the real thing.

Gary Garritan

[Ashermusic]

With all due respect to Gary and the other terrific developers, with all sampled/modeled acoustic instruments the following can still be said: "It sounds just like the real thing until you put it next to the real thing."

So maybe the goal isn't to get it exactly like the real thing but to capture its properties sufficiently and have the power to use and alter it that modeled/sample libraries give us. This is why I do not share people's obsession with issues that say "Well, the real thing has this factor, that factor, etc. that are missing from this otherwise excellent product."

This is not a knock on Oliver or anyone else. Do I want my samples/models to be reasonably realistic? Sure. Do I need them to be EXACTLY like the real thing in order to create with them? No.

I.E. I am producing a CD for a Israeli duo that I have produced 2 other CDs for and on a very sparse track I used the ArtVista Virtual Grand. (I know, Oliver, I know:) The engineer was working on the sound and one of the duo looked at the grand piano sitting there in the studio and said, "When did you record that here?"

When I explainded to him that it was not that piano but a sampled piano he said, "Boy that sounds real." Would it fool more sophisticated listeners? Perhaps not. Do I care? No. The part is emotional, I played it well, and it serves the arrangement.

So in summation, with the present quality of the best of the sample/modeld libraries if you cannot make terrific sounding music the fault lies not in them but in your own skills.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

I tend towards your pragmatism, Jay. However, there is most definitely a place for the obsessive in the sampling biz. In fact, if it weren't for the obsessive folks out there, we'd still be playing four layer piano libraries with no releases.

What makes pianos, in particular, a challenge is that the mechanism for playing is so close, and the feel is getting so close, that getting a little "satisfaction" makes you yearn for that much more.

Case in point, I came away from a gig this weekend with several ideas about how sampled pianos might be improved in their response, just because I had the opportunity to play a nice C7 live with a group where I normally play a sampled piano. So, I got an opportunity to observe a difference in the feel of one as opposed to the other, in a setting where I'm very familiar and comfortable musically. And this wasn't a big thing...it was an easy thing, just something that I think gets overlooked in the relative isolation of working all the time with samples.

So, in short, I think you need the obsessives...they play a critical role, just like producers, in informing the totality of the technology, and in helping steer it.

[Nick Batzdorf]

Here's your sympathetic resonance. :|:

Every time I play a real piano it sounds like ~~~~. Every time I play a sampled piano and fix the mistakes it sounds really good.

Therefore all real pianos (except the Disklavier) suck, and sampled pianos are great.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Vacation time for Mr. Gorilla...

[Brian2112]

Playing a great instrument can inspire. I see no difference with samples.
It is certainly more inspiring (for me at least) to play a multi layered convoluted piano than the old 2 velocity soft and hard sampled pianos in romplers.:)

[Hermitage59]

However, there is most definitely a place for the obsessive in the sampling biz.

Totally agree with this, and history is replete with those who, with bloody minded, seemingly irrational obsession drove civilization forward, not only in Music, but Engineering, Medicine, Science, Social Justice, etc.


Alex.

[Ashermusic]

I tend towards your pragmatism, Jay. However, there is most definitely a place for the obsessive in the sampling biz. In fact, if it weren't for the obsessive folks out there, we'd still be playing four layer piano libraries with no releases.

What makes pianos, in particular, a challenge is that the mechanism for playing is so close, and the feel is getting so close, that getting a little "satisfaction" makes you yearn for that much more.

Case in point, I came away from a gig this weekend with several ideas about how sampled pianos might be improved in their response, just because I had the opportunity to play a nice C7 live with a group where I normally play a sampled piano. So, I got an opportunity to observe a difference in the feel of one as opposed to the other, in a setting where I'm very familiar and comfortable musically. And this wasn't a big thing...it was an easy thing, just something that I think gets overlooked in the relative isolation of working all the time with samples.

So, in short, I think you need the obsessives...they play a critical role, just like producers, in informing the totality of the technology, and in helping steer it.

Largely I agree with all this Bruce with a couple of caveats:

1. A sample is never going to sound like what the player hears as he sits behind it, attached to it, astride it, whatever. It is always going to sound as it has been captured through a microphone and played back through speakers/phones. That it just reality.

2. I can play a good sampled piano like AVGP or Ivory just as expressively as a good real one, more so than a mediocre real one, I will just play it a little differently. And that is fine.

3. Let the obsessives obsess to the developers and certainly make their case here and there with the rest of us. But no one convinces someone on the 16th attempt that they did not convince the first couple of attempts.

[Ashermusic]

Here's your sympathetic resonance. :|:

Every time I play a real piano it sounds like ~~~~. Every time I play a sampled piano and fix the mistakes it sounds really good.

Therefore all real pianos (except the Disklavier) suck, and sampled pianos are great.

Nah! I have heard your fixed tracks and they suck too :)

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Is it possible that Midi limitations are responsible for the inherent flatness of tone and volume, with a fixed dynamic and velocity range before manipulation? I've often felt 0-127 isn't enough.



I don't really think so. At least not at this juncture. We hear a lot about the limitations of the MIDI spec, but to date, the shortcomings of sampled pianos have not been due to that bottleneck. In the best ones available today, I find that the biggest remaining challenge is in getting the dynamic and timbral range "right." Whether this is falling upon filtering design or the inspired recording and distribution of the layer count, what tends to disturb me most as a player is the feeling that I am not as in control of volume and timbre as I feel on the acoustic instrument.

Not that I have expectations of a perfect match. But there are certainly perceivable shortcomings, and innovation always starts with perception. If we can perceive it, define it, describe it...then we can strategize ways to overcome it.

It's always worth it to try, since a clumsy solution might lead us to an elegant one.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Largely I agree with all this Bruce with a couple of caveats:

1. A sample is never going to sound like what the player hears as he sits behind it, attached to it, astride it, whatever. It is always going to sound as it has been captured through a microphone and played back through speakers/phones. That it just reality.

2. I can play a good sampled piano like AVGP or Ivory just as expressively as a good real one, more so than a mediocre real one, I will just play it a little differently. And that is fine.

3. Let the obsessives obsess to the developers and certainly make their case here and there with the rest of us. But no one convinces someone on the 16th attempt that they did not convince the first couple of attempts.

Per #1, of course.

Per #2, I'll challenge you on that. TBO might be the best sample library I've ever played. Certainly the most expressive C7. The minute I sat behind the real C7 this weekend, on a gig I've played dozens of times on TBO, I played completely and totally differently. No comparison. And it was 100% about the available expression at the instrument. And this from a hardcore disciple of your point #1.

Per #3, I'm not sure about that either. Sometimes it takes a load of tenacity to get a point across. Whether a point is being presented in its most pure state, and in its best light is another story altogether. But if it hadn't been for some very loud and persistent folks, we'd still be drinking godawful bathtub gin right now instead of our beloved Tanq 10 or Hendricks.

[Ashermusic]

Per #1, of course.

Per #2, I'll challenge you on that. TBO might be the best sample library I've ever played. Certainly the most expressive C7. The minute I sat behind the real C7 this weekend, on a gig I've played dozens of times on TBO, I played completely and totally differently. No comparison. And it was 100% about the available expression at the instrument. And this from a hardcore disciple of your point #1.

Per #3, I'm not sure about that either. Sometimes it takes a load of tenacity to get a point across. Whether a point is being presented in its most pure state, and in its best light is another story altogether. But if it hadn't been for some very loud and persistent folks, we'd still be drinking godawful bathtub gin right now instead of our beloved Tanq 10 or Hendricks.

1. I am glad we agree.

2. Obviously I am a better pianist than you :)

3. I just no longer have the patience to read the same argument 50 times anymore. It makes me want to take a baseball bat to the person. I guess I am getting old and cranky:)

[Nick Batzdorf]

I just walked right into that, didn't I...

[Nick Batzdorf]

In all seriousness, Olivier is a maniac - in the good sense of the word. Sympathetic resonance doesn't happen to be my highest priority, but it's great when people are that far into sampling. That's how the bar gets raised.

[Gamera]

Numerous times I've been in a session where the client tried to put the real piano on a contemporary pop track and it sounded like crap. A sampled piano could be made to sit in the track or jump out from it. If the piano in the room didn't fit, it's not like we could just wheel in another one.

- G

[FredProgGH]

I agree. The piano sound in the original Alesis Quadrasynth was just the skankiest thing ever on its own and I would dream of the day when I had something better to record with. But know even though I love all the wonderful sampled grands I have at my disposal I'll still use the Quadrasynth on about half the tracks I do- it has a cool sound in a mix, the same way the Yamaha electric grands did. But, I'm really glad I don't have to use the stupid thing- now it's an artistic choice, and that makes all the difference in the world.

[Chinablu]

Gary,

sorry if already posted: how many velocity layers have been recorded?

Thanks,

:) Roberto