Help! Mac user doing PC stuff!

[Jerry W.]

Hi Everyone

I JUST got my PC (to host my VSTi's)

Was installing GPO and on the third disc, it came up with an error message. It basically said that there was an installation file that was corrupted!!:eek:

So what do I do?

I am running P4 2.6 ghz 1.5 GB ram - Win XP pro

Any ideas? GPO installed great on the Mac side - but not with Windows.

Jerry

[dabbler]

Should have stuck with a Mac.

[FredProgGH]

Generally that means a bad read on the media. Check the disk for scratches and big fingerprints and try again.

[Wheat Williams]

While we're on the subject, what kind of virus protection software and spyware protection software are you installing on your PC? Have you downloaded all the Microsoft security updates through Windows Update?

In some cases virus protection software might cause an installation of PC software to fail, and it may be necessary to temporarily "snooze" or disable the virus protection software during the installation.

But I have no specific experience with trying to install GPO on a Windows XP box.

[FredProgGH]

My music PC's are not internet connected. So no firewalls, no antivirus, no updates, no security issues.. I NEVER update Windows unless some piece of software won't run otherwise. I get software updates on another machine and burn them to CD.

[dewdman42]

I would guess there is a corrupt file on the media as well..perhaps dirty disc or a scratch.. sorry to hear it..that sucks.

[Houston Haynes]

I got that kind of error with an install disc for SID XL. I used a motorized CD/DVD cleaner from Memorex and after a minute of scrub-a-dub in that unit - it loaded without a hitch. Oddly enough, manual cleaning didn't seem to help at all - only running it through the machine had any positive effect.

[tgfoo]

My music PC's are not internet connected.

Sadly I think this is the only way you're going to keep your PC virus free...

[Styxx]

Hi Everyone

I JUST got my PC (to host my VSTi's)

Was installing GPO and on the third disc, it came up with an error message. It basically said that there was an installation file that was corrupted!!:eek:

So what do I do?

I am running P4 2.6 ghz 1.5 GB ram - Win XP pro

Any ideas? GPO installed great on the Mac side - but not with Windows.

Jerry Get ahold of DPDAN. I believe he has the same type of set up and can possible help you through. If not, we'll make 'em warlk thar plank, yong Harkinzzzzz. arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[Styxx]

My music PC's are not internet connected. So no firewalls, no antivirus, no updates, no security issues.. I NEVER update Windows unless some piece of software won't run otherwise. I get software updates on another machine and burn them to CD. I would just freaking love to have it that way! Some day I'm gonna, gonna, I tell you ... I am! You'll see! I'm gonna get me one of those big gigantic super computers and , and, and , rig it to the world! Then I will be able to control the minds of every one and soon be the . .. . eh, never mind. :D

Anyway Fred, smart way to go!

[FredProgGH]

I ought to note that my home PC that is on the internet has never had a major vorus. I use AdAware (cleans every day), Zone Alarm (free firewall) and McAffee Online Virus Scan (which has caught some worms and such as they were coming in). That makes a very safe setup. But I still wouldn't trust the work computers with it :D :D

[Styxx]

I ought to note that my home PC that is on the internet has never had a major vorus. I use AdAware (cleans every day), Zone Alarm (free firewall) and McAffee Online Virus Scan (which has caught some worms and such as they were coming in). That makes for a very safe setup. But I still wouldn't trust the work computers with it :D :D Eh, regardless of the success you have enjoyed with your home PC, having your work PC off of the internet is smart. So much garbage gets saved on your PC from the Internet it's a crime. I will say CyberScrub I have used to clean up my free space and other Internet garbage on my HD's and the speed increased dramatically! CyberScrub can be downloaded as a trial for 15 days with no obligations.

[Houston Haynes]

I use iolo's System Mechanic 6 Professional on both of my rigs.

[Tom Hopkins]

Should have stuck with a Mac.About 80% of our tech support issues are on the Mac side, not the PC. That's our interesting fact for the day. Neither format is trouble free. Don't we wish.

Tom

[dabbler]

About 80% of our tech support issues are on the Mac side, not the PC. That's our interesting fact for the day. Neither format is trouble free. Don't we wish.

Tom

Actually Tom, I was being a little sarcastic. Maybe I read too much into what the original poster writes, but to me, it seems he sees PC's as inferior to Macs. I've noticed it in a couple of posts of his.

R.

[FredProgGH]

Eh, regardless of the success you have enjoyed with your home PC, having your work PC off of the internet is smart. So much garbage gets saved on your PC from the Internet it's a crime.
No argument there. BTW products like Cyberscub and System mechanic are worth their weight in gold, too. I use System Mechanic.

[Wheat Williams]

About 80% of our tech support issues are on the Mac side, not the PC. Tom

Yes, 80% of Garritan tech support questions are on the Mac side. But on the Windows side, 90% of all tech support calls in general (to Dell, HP, etc.) have to do with problems from spyware and viruses.

ZERO percent of Apple Macintosh tech support calls have to do with spyware or viruses.

So while the Mac is not completely trouble-free, it is much more trouble-free in general for the majority of users.

I use Windows myself and I'll maintain that for knowledgeable users who are concerned about and vigilant toward computer security, running Windows is fine. But for your average computer user (or composer) who just wants to get work done on the computer, and very much does not want to have to become an expert on security and systems administrations, the Mac platform is far less trouble than Windows.

It's excellent that you guys can afford to purchase extra Windows systems strictly for music, and to keep them isolated from the Internet, web browsing and email reading. But most of us computer users can't afford the luxury of extra special-purpose machines. We need one computer that can handle all of our day-to-day tasks. For us, a Mac makes a lot more sense.

[Houston Haynes]

Yes, 80% of Garritan tech support questions are on the Mac side. But on the Windows side, 90% of all tech support calls in general (to Dell, HP, etc.) have to do with problems from spyware and viruses.

80% of all statistics are made up on the spot...

:rolleyes:

The only reason why Macs are not as prone to being attacked by malicious code is that it simply doesn't present a big enough target. If you're going to write code that creates zombie machines, you just don't have a big enough pool of Macs out there to hit... so they mostly don't bother when there is 10 times the magnitude of Windows machines out there. So to a certain degree - the boutique aspect of owning a Mac has its advantages.

[Wheat Williams]

The only reason why Macs are not as prone to being attacked by malicious code is that it simply doesn't present a big enough target. Sure. I have no problem with this. So be smart and get a Mac and you won't be a big enough target to suffer the tech support problems that 95% of computer users have when they go Windows.

I'm only saying this because I'm a professional tech support guy who uses Mac and Windows each day, and supports Mac and Windows users each day. I've only been doing this for about twenty years.

I'm talking about general computer users here and not Garritan users: It grieves me to no end that so many people in the world just want to surf the Web and use email, and they think Windows is the best choice for this. These people suffer horrible problems with viruses and spyware. They shouldn't have to. They shouldn't have to become computer security experts just for the privilege of being able to surf the Web and use email.

This is why I say, "Buy your grandmother a Macintosh". She can get 100% of the enjoyment of using a computer with only a small fraction of the technical problems one encounters with Windows. She will also be somewhat safer in protecting herself from identity theft because there's no chance that her machine will become a zombie in somebody's botnet.

If I were the ruler of the world, I would require everybody who wants a Windows computer to prove first that they were experts in network security, specifically virus protection and spyware eradication. If they met these requirements, I'd say, "Here's your Windows computer. Get to work." If they were not computer security experts and had no interest in becoming one, I would say, "Fine, here's your Apple Macintosh. Go have fun."

[Wheat Williams]

Houston made some sarcastic comment here to the effect that I must work for Garritan, and congratulations. This comment seems to have been moderated out or deleted at some point.

No, of course I don't work for Garritan. But I am a professional computer technical support technician, and I hold certifications from CompTIA and Apple Computer. I have extensive training and experience in Windows networking as well, although I didn't finish those MCSE exams. I have almost twenty years of experience in this field.

I am a musician, but not a composer. I wouldn't presume to lecture anybody here on the best tools to use to make orchestral music. But when it comes to computer security, I do know what I'm talking about. I install virus protection and spyware protection on all my clients' Windows computers. Often I get called in to do recovery for new users who have had their systems hosed by spyware and viruses. I have to spend 8 hours erasing and rebuilding their systems, followed by careful installation of the proper security tools. I then have to educate them about how to prevent this sort of thing from happening again, and hope to God that they are paying attention and will remember what I taught them.

But before I do any of that, I explain to them that they wouldn't have to concern themselves with any of this foolishness if they would simply get rid of the Windows computer and replace it with a Mac. A few listen to me and follow my advice. The rest pay me hundreds of dollars to rebuild their Windows system, which will probably get hosed again in another year's time. I make much more money working for clients who run Windows than from clients who run Macintosh.

As for my statement that 90% of Windows computer tech support problems have to do with viruses and spyware, that is not a statistic I made up on the spot. It's from an article I read analyzing Dell tech support. The article came out about two years ago. If I can find a reference to this article, I'll post it here.

Let me state this again: I use both Macs and Windows each day. They've each got their pros and cons, and purposes to which they are best suited. I'm standing by my statement that Macintoshes are a much better choice for users who do not wish to be responsible for computer network security. That's all I'm saying.

Some Windows users snort and say that everybody must be knowledgeable about network security or they shouldn't use a computer in the first place. That's pie-in-the-sky. The world is full of Windows users who ignore security, and as a result the Internet and corporate networks are choked with spyware and viruses and botnets. These Windows users are part of the problem and contribute to the problem.

My second thesis is that anybody ought to be able to use a computer for web surfing and email and word processing without having to give a flip about viruses and spyware. The way to do this is to buy a Mac.

Finally, Windows systems are better suited to corporate networks because corporations have IT security teams who police the network to prevent and mitigate against spyware and virus damage, thus protecting each client machine. Macintosh systems are better suited for stand-alone use at home precisely because homes and single end users don't have an IT security team policing their computer for them.

Houston, you seem to think I'm a Windows-basher or worse, a "Mac fan boy". I'm neither. I own and maintain two Windows XP systems (for the wife and her day job) and one Mac here at home (for me), and I work on each of them every day. I'm platform-agnostic for crying out loud. I'm as close to an impartial critic as you could hope to find in these matters.

Sheesh.

[Houston Haynes]

Houston, you seem to think I'm a Windows-basher or worse, a "Mac fan boy". I'm neither. I own and maintain two Windows XP systems (for the wife and her day job) and one Mac here at home (for me), and I work on each of them every day. I'm platform-agnostic for crying out loud. I'm as close to an impartial critic as you could hope to find in these matters.

Sheesh.

I understand what you're saying - but you're still missing my point. You're saying that a "truth" exists because of your empirical evidence. I say that you've found that evidence because of a larger truth that gives equal weight to another explanation beyond what you have theorized.

I understand that there are architectural differences in OSX that provide fewer handholds for malicious code to make it's way into an individual sytem compared to standard distribution of XP and other versions of Windows OS - but that's only part of the picture. From a hacker's perspective, it's only a slightly harder target - the real motivating factor is the amount of "spread" they see from a successful hack attempt.

I doubt very seriously that Dell's assertion has been qualified or verified objectively. My guess is that they're attributing a sub-set of calls they get - like a certain percentage of errors not caused by the user -- or a certain percentage of hardware returns they get are attributed to malicious code... I consider 90% to be an improbably high number. I'd like to see that article and whether it was written with any "teeth" or if it was there to help cover some Dell honcho's anatomy and not damage shareholder value - if you know what I mean.

In any case, nothing that you've said has controverted Tom's assertion. Let's face it - Apple markets computers to a crowd that's afraid of computing. Many Apple customers select that platform because they want a toaster or a Fischer-Price toy where they can press the big round button - hear the machine go "ding" - and everyone nods knowlingly at their own special brand of "novice professionalism". They think that it justifies the premium they pay for the Apple logo. Like I said - selling 'boutique' has its merits. But then again - sometimes not. With the success of iTunes and other hardware solutions from Apple, you'll probably see more 'proofs of concept' getting into the wild... and the wakeup call will be a nasty one for Mac users that have been blissfully unaware of their vulnerability.


In March, 2004, a programmer called Bo Lindbergh posted a proof-of-concept Mac virus that was an MP3 file and played in iTunes. The proof-of-concept popped up a dialogue box, and could execute any sort of code. That proof of concept was never turned into a publicly distributed virus.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060216.gtvirusfeb16/TPStory/Technology/columnists


The Inqtana worm exploits a vulnerability known as CAN-2005-1333 to spread itself to other vulnerable Mac OS X computers, but Apple released a patch against the vulnerability in mid 2005, meaning the worm is highly unlikely to spread successfully. OS X users have been urged to keep their software updated against the latest security vulnerabilities in Apple's code.

"It's disturbing to see a second worm for OS X so soon after the first, but it should be remembered that this is only two compared to well over 100,000 viruses for Microsoft operating systems," said Graham Cluley, senior technology consultant for Sophos. "The good news is that Inqtana is not going to spread successfully in the wild, but this announcement will still be a shock to those in the Mac community who thought hackers were not interested in their operating system."

http://www.scmagazine.com/uk/news/article/541952/second-mac-virus-wild/

So my point is - be careful with blanket statements. It makes for faster typing, but not for meaningful conversation.

And while we're talking about technical qualifications, I'm a QA manager for strategic projects in the artificial intelligence group of one of the largest financial systems companies in the US. And I was making music in a mixed-platform environment before hard-disc recording was a gleam in anyone's eye. So let's dispense with the whose-is-bigger-chit-chat and operate on the assumption that everyone comes to this conversation with multiple vectors of experience.

[Nickie Fønshauge]

ZERO percent of Apple Macintosh tech support calls have to do with spyware or viruses.

Of course. Why bother writing malware for a platform nobody is using :n:

[Hermitage59]

Great discussion, much of which goes over my head in relation to programme depth of understanding or knowledge. I was out doing gigs, when many of my friends and colleagues were elbow deep in Bios, Dos, BEOS, etc.
I'm not bothered either way in the brand debate.
I think H has raised an important point in this. And that's one of 'brand assumed perception'. I think this relates to our view of what is good or not based on familiarity, and a sense of 'loyalty', possibly because some may want to justify their choice or preference of platform, audio/midi software, etc.
From reading much lately about the possible direction to take when setting up a new studio, it seems (to me) that XP was a better upgrade for us computer muso types. H made the comment in another thread about simply buying a big, fast, PC to do a job. I'm inclined to agree with this, based on my own limited knowledge, and discussions like this. Excluding cost, and internet access, viruses are a non starter, same as macs. If you're not connected, and take usual precautions with input, what are you likely to catch? And the target audience comment for malware holds for me too. Mac simply aren't big enough in numbers to satisfy a hacker's ego. I use a Mac when travelling or connecting. Not because i'm attached to the logo, but for the convenience of knowing some spotty little throwback is LESS likely to build something that may do some damage.
The DAW/Audio/midi software available to us is a different issue, and worthy of another discussion entirely. Those guys are catching up too, and narrowing the gap between platforms.
Maybe in 2 or three years time, the gap will be so narrow, it will only be the 'feel of the toaster' perception that defines preference or sales, removed from the identical efficiency of both platforms that may well be the reality. (If it isn't already.)

I've enjoyed reading this intelligent thread.
Makes a change from the usual brand rock throwing, and bone waving.

Regards,

Alex.

[Jerry W.]

Thanks everyone!
(Geez, I didn't mean to start yet another PC vs Mac thread! :eek: Though i prefer Macs over PCs, I am not prepared (or even desirous) to defend my position - it is just a preference - plain and simple - I don't particularly love being the bane of every IT department's existence, but as I say - it is a preference.) ;)


I think that I have figured my problem out - I might be wrong.

I think my optical drive is just bad. My nephew built this PC for me out of a FEW used parts, but mostly new. (The processor, ram and one of the hard drives were new, but the mobo, optical drive, and the other hard drive etc. were used)

If I download an installer for something - I have no problems. But when I am trying to install something from the optical drive, I get ether a corrupt file alert - or a sudden kernel panic and a restart.

UPS did not handle the PC with gingerly treatment, either - so some of the probls can be attributed to that.

I will replace the optical drive and see if that helps. Actually - I was able to install something with the optical drive ONCE - but any NI-based installer - and it goes weird. I have K2, GPO and a EW sampler demo that came with my Choir library that has a few INTAKT and KOMPAKT instruments to get me to want the full versions, but that installers for those also failed. Either it hates NI. (he he) or it is just the drive itself. I have tried installing things over a network - but I get kernel panics and sudden restarts when trying that. (even with my anti-virus off)

Thanks for your replies. Once I am done installing all this stuff, I really don't plan on interfacing with the PC much. I hope to be controlling it via MIDIoverLAN (or Fx teleport when it is released for OS X) from my mac. I just want the PC to host my samples and VSTi's I'd really like to think of it as a hardware sampler with a LOT of samples on it. :D We'll see. What an adventure!!

:)

Jerry Wickham

[dabbler]

It's excellent that you guys can afford to purchase extra Windows systems strictly for music, and to keep them isolated from the Internet, web browsing and email reading. But most of us computer users can't afford the luxury of extra special-purpose machines. We need one computer that can handle all of our day-to-day tasks. For us, a Mac makes a lot more sense.

I thought you were supposed to be as "platform agnostic" as they get? :)

You don't need to "afford the luxury of extra special-purpose machines". Most office and internet tasks can be done with a Pentium 2... in fact, my dad, who uses a computer for writing letters, email and web surfing only is JUST getting round to thinking about replacing the original PentiumMMX 166Mhz from 1995 I donated to him in the late 90's. It still works fine, but he wants a couple of recent games (I dunno, these retired delinquents :rolleyes:). Point is, you can probably have an office/internet machine for less than $100 (including monitor!). Okay, so add that to the price of a very well spec'd, reasonably branded PC (we don't all have an interest in self building) and you still come in at less than the price of the cheapest G5. This won't work for those who don't have space for two computers of course, but its an ideal solution for the rest. If you don't have space, get good anti-virus software, and when you connect to the internet, use it.

Even now, the cost of ownership of a PC is a lot lower than that of a Mac. Not necessarily for the reason of the initial purchase, but the regularity of OS updates combined with the worryingly quick obselescence of previous versions. Many software manufacturers seem to be very quick to ditch support for all but the latest versions of OSX meaning that new software will almost certainly require an OS upgrade, which in turn will require an upgrade to existing software.

[FredProgGH]

I think my optical drive is just bad.

Ah, that'll do it!! :D It *could* be an issue of needing up to date drivers as well, but CDR/DVD drives are pretty standard these days and usually Windows has no trouble with its own generic driver. Still, it's a good idea do get all the latest drivers online that you can for a machine, especially mobo drivers- those are important for system stability. If you know the make and model of the mobo that can be a huge help- or hopefully you have the original driver disk and it has a website or upgrade utility. When you go with a used mobo that can be a problem...

[Jerry W.]

:)

My nephew (the guy who built it) is an IT guy with a private school which also produces its own brand of educational software. It is called the Waterford Institute.

They have a fully staffed department of dozens of graphic artists, programmers and musicians to create their software. They are constantly upgrading to more powerful equipment. They rarely wait till their existing hardware is not working to replace it.

The PC I have is one they were selling to their employees first, and then to the general public. He bought it, knowing that I was interested in this. The optical drive, however, was not being sold - but given away in a "for free" bin. It worked well enough to install Windows xp in it. But there is something more wrong with it because it is a DVD/CD-RW combo drive - but only is using the CD laser. The DVD laser is not working - and the cables are all in place. So it is pretty safe to say it is going byebye soon. The nice thing about it is, the school doesn't go cheap when it buys stuff. this is a nice PC. and I have professional IT guy to help me with my problems. (for free - or maybe for a few steak dinners down the road when I travel out west again)

:)


Jerry

[Houston Haynes]

there is something more wrong with it because it is a DVD/CD-RW combo drive - but only is using the CD laser. The DVD laser is not working - and the cables are all in place. So it is pretty safe to say it is going byebye soon.

What do you need two lasers for? Who are you, Captain Kirk?

:samurai:

[dewdman42]

80% of all statistics are made up on the spot...

I heard it was 83.7%




The only reason why Macs are not as prone to being attacked by malicious code is that it simply doesn't present a big enough target. If you're going to write code that creates zombie machines, you just don't have a big enough pool of Macs out there to hit... so they mostly don't bother when there is 10 times the magnitude of Windows machines out there. So to a certain degree - the boutique aspect of owning a Mac has its advantages.

correct, except its probaby more like 100 or 1000 times. (wait, I just made up a statistic. doh!

Seriously..Mac OSX has vulnerabilities as well. Apple routinely releases security updates, so therefore it is not 100% secure. There are a number of logistical and socialogical reasons why hackers target Windows machines more than macs, not the least of which is sheer numbers. The only machine I ever had hacked into was a Linux box....for whatever that's worth. I run some spyware detectors and virus protection on my Windows PC's, behind a linksys firewall and windows firewall and knock on wood...haven't been attacked in 5 years with any kind of virus or spyware on 3 PC's. When I'm doing Audio I just disable the virus and spyware stuff.

I'll also add that the MS Windows security vulnerabilities get a lot of press, so therefore everyone hears about them.

[dewdman42]

Hey Jerry..I think your problem is all about your disc being dirty, scratches or the CD/DVD drive has an issue. This could happen on any platform. Don't get discouraged. Once you get your PC workign smoothly you are going to love the fact that it cost so much less. Then you can get FX Teleport finally eh?:

[Jerry W.]

Hey Dewdman,

The discs are not smudged, scratched or blemished in any way. The drive is just bad.

If it were only a singe occurence of failure to install, I would agree with you - but EVERY single installation from the CD has failed (and I have LOTSA stuff) except one. I think it was a fluke. :)

And yes - i plan on using Fx Teleport when it is released for OSX. I plan on still working in the Mac environment in my sequencing and stuff, controlling the samples and VST's that are in the PC. We'll see how things go.

But you are very right when you mention how inexpensive things are. For this PC, I paid a total of $300 for the 2.6 ghz P4 processor, 1 gig of ram (for a total of 1.5) and other stuff.

My nephew donated the initial PC itself, his time and a few other parts to make it all happen. I got lucky in that area. He is really good at this stuff. Problem is, he lives 900 miles away. :D If I had to buy all this stuff separately, it would still be cheaper than buying a new pc, but luckily, my nephew already had many of the things I needed. The only things I had to do to the PC was to swap processors, add ram and add a gigbit ethernet card. the mobo, 80 gb hard drive were already there.

:)

Jerry