HOLBERG: Chamber String Orchestra Sound!

[Fabio]

The Prelude of "Holberg" Suite, by E. Grieg...
Holberg Suite Prelude (http://www.fabiovicentini.com/Holberg%20Suite.mp3)

...is one of my favorite for string orchestra. Fast bouncing repetitions, strong bow attacks, sweet "divisi" portato and legato, fast runs, "pizzicato", heavy "tutti" and wide "crescendo". A real challenging gym for chamber string orchestration.

I don't know if it's a good rendition, and I let you comment about, as I would like to know if you are able of recognizing the sound libraries used to make it.

Please let me know....:)

P.S. a dry-ed version for more defined sound check:
Holberg Suite low reverb version (http://www.fabiovicentini.com/Holberg%20dry.mp3)

[Jibrish]

I would be the least likely to know which libraries... but would be very interested in finding out. Chamber Strings are of a particular interest to me.

Guessing Garritan Stradivari on the violin.

Very nicely done, and enjoyable to listen to.

Is this using K2 scripts?

[geronimo001]

I love that music and i also love VSL chamber strings:D probably VSL VI right? i tough i hear some ''piano'' portamento, Good work, a lot of programming he? But a little to much reverb for my taste and because of that we loose definition in the mix like in the descent i could barely hear the violas and cello but still, good work. How long did it take you?

[beach]

Great Fabio!!!
I really like it!
I am not able to recognized the library (S) you used, but Garritan maybe is the answer?

I agree with Geronimo, maybe a little bit less reverb would be better!!!
But Anyway great sounds!!

Let us know, please!!

Best,
Roberto

[Fabio]

A first set of answers, thanks for listening to my work:

- Yes it is based on K2 scripts for most effects. But not only.

- Yes quite a lot of programming, but easy to do thanks to the power of tools used. They don't work automatically anyway, a "musical mind" must be the driver. It's my role in the work...:o

- Yes probably the reverb is too wet somwhere. I will try to reduce it.

- It's the result of more or less 6 hours of work

About libraries, of course I will let you know, but later, to keep it interesting for more people. Please come back on the thread....

[geronimo001]

Yes! don't keep us waiting!!!...and yes, solo stradivari it is, i think:D .

[Fabio]

OK!

Solo Stradivari Violin is one of the sounds.

And the others? any suggestion?:rolleyes:

[Fabio]

Kirk Hunter's Emerald Chamber Strings?

YES, another sound is: Chamber violins, short det, with round-robin, for fast repetitions of Violins I and Violins II "tutti".

Some other very effective sound source is used. Any suspect?

[Fabio]

come on Fabio - don't keep us guessing - I've been thinking of getting Chamber Strings - so this could clinch it!!

I should recommend it, if the quality of the other sections will be the same of the good violins that Kirk has included for free in the Emerald SO.

The overall quality of KH Emerald SO is already good, and it is under further development for the necessary refinement, as for new programming.

I suppose then that Chamber strings will be interesting.

I still use an unexpensive, but very powerful tool, the ensamble maker of GPO, for chamber music.
In the demo, I use it for the creation of other sections, enriched by articulations of the string sections of Emerald, with some simple additional programming of K2 for better control.

(KH is providing with an excellent via-velocity control of dynamics, but I like a continous controller, like cc#11 or cc#1, to refine dynamic and/or timbre after attack, to add expression and variation).

[Haydn]

Fabio,

I also re-program KH Emerald with extra controllers. Mentioned to Kirk Hunter at NAMM that he needs to use CC11 for expression so CC7 can then be used as a gain control.

Jim

[Fabio]

Fabio,

I also re-program KH Emerald with extra controllers. Mentioned to Kirk Hunter at NAMM that he needs to use CC11 for expression so CC7 can then be used as a gain control.

Jim

Well, I agree of course, then I hope Kirk will take it into account for updates.:)

[geronimo001]

Interesting, this version of the 'Prelude', as this very same piece also serves to demonstrate the Horizon Chamber Strings: http://www.vsl.co.at/admin/downloader.asp?file=/data/Sounds/MP3/BK_Grieg_Holbergsuite_Allegro_Chamber_Strings.mp3.
Now, I certainly don't want to spoil the pleasure many people seem to find in using the Hunter strings, but to my ears there's simply no comparing with the crisp, detailed and ultimately, far superior sound of the Horizons.

Yes but it's not that obvious with lots of reverb.

[Daryl]

True. And even less obvious if you pull a bavaclava over your head.
LOL :>)))))

[geronimo001]

True. And even less obvious if you pull a bavaclava over your head.

:p :D :p :D :|:

[Fabio]

Interesting, this version of the 'Prelude', as this very same piece also serves to demonstrate the Horizon Chamber Strings: http://www.vsl.co.at/admin/downloader.asp?file=/data/Sounds/MP3/BK_Grieg_Holbergsuite_Allegro_Chamber_Strings.mp3.
Now, I certainly don't want to spoil the pleasure many people seem to find in using the Hunter strings, but to my ears there's simply no comparing with the crisp, detailed and ultimately, far superior sound of the Horizons.

Sorry but I don't agree.

The sound of the demo in the link is probably "crisp", but so poor from a realism point of view, that I will never buy such a product after this demo!

No legato, mechanic repetitions, flat and unexpressive "cantabile".

Art is a matter of subjectivity, and you may find my rendering poor or inadeguate, I apologize, and accept even the most hard critic.

But sorry, IMO the sounds are not used in the proper way in the Horizon demo, in most of the sections of the piece.

Only my very humble opinion anyway. No flame, please, no polemics.

Just opinions.

[Fabio]

Yes but it's not that obvious with lots of reverb.

Please just check the dry version I added then.:D

[geronimo001]

Please just check the dry version I added then.:D

WoW! Thanks i was too shy to ask.

[geronimo001]

There's not enough reverb:D ..just kidding. I prefer the dry version BTW.

Overall, i agree with re-peat on this one but i have to admit that your version has it's strong point, maby more expressive at times with the portato articulation(those are made with the script in K2 right?), the Solo Violin sounded a little thin but i found GPO more than appropriate for this peace and I'm really looking forward to Kirk's chamber strings.

It would be really interesting to compare Kirk's ch. strings vs VSL ch. strings, i mean just those 2.

Thanks for the dry version again and good work!...6 hours, waw! that's pretty fast.

[FredProgGH]

Definitely- VSL does certain things very well, and their rendition of this piece is very good, but it's not a Holy Grail in and of itself. I think it's very valid to put this realization up against it and I think Fabio's job holds up very well!! There are aspects of it, a certain richness that you wouldn't get from Horizon, and also I think that mixing libs like he did helps the whole ensemble to have less of a "sameness" about it.

[geronimo001]

Definitely- VSL does certain things very well, and their rendition of this piece is very good, but it's not a Holy Grail in and of itself. I think it's very valid to put this realization up against it and I think Fabio's job holds up very well!! There are aspects of it, a certain richness that you wouldn't get from Horizon, and also I think that mixing libs like he did helps the whole ensemble to have less of a "sameness" about it.

I agree, but i would be also curious to hear the same demo with the new articulation in the VSL ch. str. VI.

[Edi]

...

I still use an unexpensive, but very powerful tool, the ensamble maker of GPO, for chamber music...



Do you mean by this the feature of building up sections from several versions of the solo strings?

Edi

[FredProgGH]

I agree, but i would be also curious to hear the same demo with the new articulation in the VSL ch. str. VI.
I agree- it would be interesting to find out if the end result is actually better, or simply the same but arrived at with a lot less work.

[Fabio]

Do you mean by this the feature of building up sections from several versions of the solo strings?

Edi

Yes, I do.:)

[MotuHari]

Fabio, the dry mix is much better. Great stuff.
IMHO the VSL version sounds great up to the half way point then starts to sound very artificial. By the end it has the sound of an accordian.

[geronimo001]

Fabio, the dry mix is much better. Great stuff.
IMHO the VSL version sounds great up to the half way point then starts to sound very artificial. By the end it has the sound of an accordian.

LOL..It's not that bad but i agree they could have use a little EQ, but you have admire VSL for making completly exposed demos, i have a lot fo respect for that.

I agree with what you said but it could also be a mather of choice by the progammer of this demos, just a tough...

[Hardy Heern]

Excellent job Fabio....a beautiful piece too.

I think you have used all the libraries very successfully and they blend beautifully.

I don't like the slides with the Strad as they sound a little synthetic. I don't think it's in your usage. Maybe the slide programming is linear and that would be my guess for the slightly synthetic sounding slides.....although I may be wrong

I would imagine, in real life, that the slide speed is slow at the beginning and end and slightly variable in between. I've heard it worse in other Strad demos, it has to be said.

All around this is great......I'm on my 5th loop! I like both verbed and dry versions.

Thanks

Frank

[Hardy Heern]

Definitely- VSL does certain things very well, and their rendition of this piece is very good, but it's not a Holy Grail in and of itself. I think it's very valid to put this realization up against it and I think Fabio's job holds up very well!! There are aspects of it, a certain richness that you wouldn't get from Horizon, and also I think that mixing libs like he did helps the whole ensemble to have less of a "sameness" about it.

Agreed! It's starting to look as if Emerald is a great 'mixer'.

Frank

[MotuHari]

LOL..It's not that bad but i agree they could have use a little EQ, but you have admire VSL for making completly exposed demos, i have a lot fo respect for that.

I agree with what you said but it could also be a mather of choice by the progammer of this demos, just a tough...


I don't use VSL but it seems like a great VI. When working with any of the VI's or libs certain passages will work better than others, especially if you are trying to be true to the original orchestration. This seem to be such a passage. I didn't aim to be mean spirited, hope it wasn't taken that way. All the best.

[geronimo001]

I don't use VSL but it seems like a great VI. When working with any of the VI's or libs certain passages will work better than others, especially if you are trying to be true to the original orchestration. This seem to be such a passage. I didn't aim to be mean spirited, hope it wasn't taken that way. All the best.

Not at all, i always tough those passage were a little weak too, but i sometimes wonder if it is not a mather of artistic deferences...probably not...or maybe a little bit of both. What I'm trying to say is that maybe it was intended that way. I find VSL style to be a very ''strict'' classic style, close to baroque kind of style, and i think maybe that's what he was aiming at in the demos, who knows?.... I like that style very much BTW.

I hope that make sence.

All the best to you too.

[geronimo001]

Thta's the joy in music isn't it - we all like different things - and that's very healthy - doesn't mean good or bad - just different.

Exactly.:cool:

[Beat Kaufmann]

I agree, but i would be also curious to hear the same demo with the new articulation in the VSL ch. str. VI.
Hi to all
Here are new VI-versions of the Holberg Suite:
Praelude (Orchestra) (http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/VSL_New_VI/BK_Grieg_Holberg_Praelude_VI_06m.mp3)
Sarabande (orchestra, excerpt) (http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/VSL_New_VI/BK_Grieg_Holberg_Sarabande_VI_06m.mp3)
Gavotte (orchestra, excerpt) (http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/VSL_New_VI/BK_Grieg_Holberg_Gavotte_VI_06m.mp3)
Rigaudon (orchestra, excerpt) (http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/VSL_New_VI/BK_Grieg_Holberg_Rigaudon_VI_06m.mp3)

Have fun :)
Beat Kaufmann