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ZeroZero
03-18-2006, 01:00 PM
I really would like to see this forum thrive.

In my opinion the Strad is the next generation, all orchestral VST's must now follow this trail.


So I am going to start a thread for newbies. Its basic information and my first impressions after having taken the plunge.

Its all IMO. I try to be honest .

Ideal set up:

The ideal set up for the Strad is a keyboard with pitch and mod wheels, touch sensitivity, midi out, aftertouch, and an input for a sustain and expression pedal - both of which will be used. You also need Kontakt 2 obviously.

Can you get by without all this?

Answer: Minimally, you must have Kontakt2 and a sequencer that allows you to alter various cc controllers, you can program the Strad 100% this way. You dont actually need a keyboard.


Live performance or programming a sequencer?

Gary emphasises using the instrument in a live way. In my view it can be used either way 100% effectively. It depends if your skills are sequencer based or musical keyboard perfomance based. Personally I am currently using it in program rather than performance mode. My results are fine - very expressive. Obviously using the keyboard even in a simple way, helps get the feel right.

Cash situation:

It's a lot of money for a new keyboard, and its also a lot of money to shell out for Kontakt if you havent got it already - plus there is the cost of the the strad, perhaps the cost of a new keyboard, and maybe even pedals too. In my view, having done this, it's been well worth the effort. Read on....


Stagger the purchase?

I started by buying Kontakt and the Strad, which was a fully functional solution, but I was soon yearning for a better keyboard.

Keyboard

I found the CME UF8 at digital village in the uk this retails for £340 UK . I bought it at a real rock bottom price, its a quality instrument and its working fine. See my other post if you want a run down, here:

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43637

KONTAKT 2 - a run down

Kontakt two's forum is currently a very negative vibe. Users have been waiting for an update since early december which still hasn't materialised. Apparently there a lot of bugs.
I can only say, Kontakt is working fine except two things:

Firstly, I can't see a change in the colours of keyswitch defined notes on the virtual keyboard - though they are there.
Secondly, I can't get the import working for foreign formats.

This does not make a difference to the Strad which is 'native' (if you forgive the dreadful pun).

Others users of K2 are not as lucky as I, I understand, but in my guesstimate, the update is only a couple of weeks away and ought to be comprehensive judging by hints from the moderator.

So, purchase of the instrument can be staggered in three stages.

First the instrument and Kontakt, for your sequencer.
Next a decent keyboard with the correct functionality.
Third expression and/or other pedals.

How much to learn?

On the learning front, honestly speaking, I found a bit of a curve. Assuming you have set up all your equipment, first base, you have to learn Kontakt to a functional degree. You dont have to be able to program in Kontakt, or even use more than a couple of screens. You just have to load the instrument and understand the main panel. This can be done in an evening if you don't get way laid in the seductions of the 200 page manual.

A quick asideabout Kontakt for those that are tempted:.

I had Halion 3, and I did not need Kontakt at all, but I am glad I took the plunge fro the saake of the violin.

Firstly the samples packaged with Kontakt are superb, well worth the ticket price even if Kontakt could only whistle dixy.

There is a whole VSL orchestra for a start, plus many high quality instruments and syth sounds.

Secondly, Kontakt 2 has a scripting editor - let me explain: A scripting editor means that software companies can create basic interfaces for any kind of instrument, with custom knobs and dials. These 'scripts' function just like VST, DXI, RTAS, etc.. instruments in their own right. There interfaces are dull grey and they are displayed, and used, right there in Kontakt.

The Strad is an example of this scipting power. Additionally, on the bundled disk there are other instruments such as a 'rib cracking' cathedral organ which is absolutely stunning!!!. There are also virtual 'strumming' guitars, trance like step editors, a whole lot of synth and percussion sounds much of which is sensitively tweakable to a high degree - easily. There are gigs and gigs of this stuff!

Warning:
Its very easy to get way laid by the seductions of Kontakt 2 believe me here. Its a wonderful set of sounds.



Do I need to learn how to program in Kontakt?:


No. Absolutely not. You don't need to know a jot about scripting, you just need to be able to load programs that have been scripted already by someone else. You can script yourself if you want to also, but you can also just go ahead and use the Strad and or other instruments, more or less immediately.



Using the actual violin instrument:

You have to learn how to program the Strad. How much work is involved? Well, the manual is 44 pages long and a lot of it is not mission critical - i.e. stuff about the life of Stradivarius.

Knowledge of real violins

You have to know something at least about the various articulations and bowings of the violin. There is a section in the manual which is a very useful start.

Putting it all together

You need to work out a game plan about how to use these tools to formulate and achieve a musical goal. In my view time making small sketches using the articulations and settings is the only way to go here.


Is it worth it?


Absolutely!



The result is SO MUCH MORE realism. At last a REAL virtual instrument one that can be played as well as programmed. It's worth the effort, this is no virtual blind alley, the learing curve may be long for you, depending on your skills, but learning the strad is going to equip yyou with the right skills for the future of sampling IMO.

At the end of the road when is all is set up and learning assimulated, the Strad is EASY to use, and you simply won't hear anything better.

Dont believe me?


Well, use your ears yourself:

Check out Stafano's song here:

http://www.garritan.com/stradivari.html

Styxx
03-21-2006, 02:30 PM
The ideal set up for the Strad is a keyboard with pitch and mod wheels, touch sensitivity, midi out, aftertouch, and an input for a sustain and expression pedal - both of which will be used. You also need Kontakt 2 obviously. Also, does it not state at least a prerequisite for octave size?

The ideal set up for the Strad is a keyboard with pitch and mod wheels, touch sensitivity, midi out, aftertouch, and an input for a sustain and expression pedal Ticks me off that expression pedal and any pedal should be an option!


Keyboard

I found the CME UF8 at digital village in the uk this retails for £340 UK . I bought it at a real rock bottom price, its a quality instrument and its working fine. See my other post if you want a run down, here: Yes, yes, yes, the only problem is I wish I would have realized more before I purchased a new keyboard. Edirol PCR-50 is not the keyboard controller for the strad! Not enough octaves.

This is a nice post and I certainly do not want to sound as if I am belittling your assessments. I do have my reservations on some so features of k 2 so far. As for the manual, like all manuals ... huh.

ZeroZero
03-21-2006, 04:59 PM
Styxx you react whatever way you like its all fine to me. Its a privilege to have such a dedicated GPO'er to join in.

Its a steep learning curve and I am not at the end of the curve myself, but I this is the most powerful tool ever created for virtual strings. It IS worth it.. pm me if you want and we can share a little.

Here is a tip that I found useful. Label up your keyboard with a few stickers (the type you CAN get off later!). It helped me visually see the geography of the Strad.

In my K2 I cant see the keyswitches as different colors, so it was always keep the manual open at the same page or get out the stickers or rely on my lame brain memory.
I am also developing a list of functions in word, its not finished but you can have a peak at it.

here's to the K2 update

Dont DO NOT give up ;)

Zero

ZeroZero
03-21-2006, 05:02 PM
For anyone reading my post above: Don't take my word as Gospel - its all IMO and I am a new user of the Strad - bear this in mind.
I still think the post is substantially valid, I am trying to get a dialogue going amongst users = feel free to jump in and correct

Styxx
03-21-2006, 07:16 PM
Zero,
Hey, I really do appreciate your help! That's what keeps a slow learner as myself here. My problem is I expect when I install and open something such as these two programs that it will work just fine and dandy right out of the box. I will spend more time with it tonight if I can.
Thanks and don't appologize about this post. It's one excellent idea!

Haydn
03-22-2006, 01:58 AM
Styxx,

Soft-samplers are a different animal than the players like the one included in GPO. They all seem to take some tweaking to get working. I've never really had any problem with Kontakt though unlike the issues I've had with GigaStudio.

What kind of system are you using Kontakt on? Are you using it as a VST? You mentioned something about viewing issues and something about 15" monitor. What resolution are you working in?

You still should be able to use the strad on a smaller keyboard although a 5 octave keyboard is recommended as the keyswitches take about an octave and the rest of the instrument covers around 3-1/2 octaves. The strad normally defaults to the most usable keyswitch which can be used for 80-90 percent of general playing.

An expression pedal is not needed as long as you program a slider to CC11. I beta tested the Strad without an expression pedal. Just make sure you program one slider for CC11 and another one next to it for CC1 to control the vibrato so you can do both with one hand.

Hang in there, once you get Kontakt and the Strad going it is worth it.

Jim

thesoundsmith
03-22-2006, 04:11 AM
Learning curve for the Strad should not reallybe too bad, assuming oyou're conmfortable with the whole controller/knob/slider/pedal/wheels thing. If you're not, it will be a long row to hoe.

I'm waiting for the controller of my choice - the brand new (not yet shipped as of last week) M-Audio Axiom 61. Bend and mod wheels, aftertouch, sus and expressionpedals, nine drawbar-capable sliders, 8 drum/touch pads(!) and presets! $379 list See it here: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Axiom61-main.html

There are others that have this feature set, but they are either a lot more money, a lot heavier of both.

In the meanwhile, just playing with what I have available, I find it a difficult instrument to use well, but I have played typical synth controls for a long time. For me, what is hard is the volume on the mod wheel vs pedal and velocity. Playing the part is easy, playing it live properly expressively is not.

But I know (and have already seen) that once I have become acclimated to the controlsurface, it is one hell of instrument; definitely one of the most expressive electronic instruments yet made.

This is just the beginning of this technology. i recommend learning it well, because there are likely to be a whole lot more coming down the pike as the processes are applied to the rest of the orchestra.

ZeroZero
03-22-2006, 04:58 AM
Have you checked out the UF8. Im really pleased with mine. I might have an issue with the sustain pedal being an on/off rather than continious controller, havent had time to check this out, but overall I am delighted with the keyboard - see my other post. Its got 88 keys and is well built.
Just a thought Soundsmith.

Styxx
03-22-2006, 09:46 AM
I'm waiting for the controller of my choice - the brand new (not yet shipped as of last week) M-Audio Axiom 61. Bend and mod wheels, aftertouch, sus and expressionpedals, nine drawbar-capable sliders, 8 drum/touch pads(!) and presets! $379 list See it here: I've had one on hold at Sweetwater for a month not priced at $299. The Edirol was given to me by a friend who didn't like it as well so I decided to give it a whirl. I waited too long and money ran out. So, the Axiom 61 is out of reach at present.

Have you checked out the UF8. Some unsupported reports of shorting out under the metal hood of these boards. Hard to believe!:rolleyes: I haven't found any articles to support this claim. I tried one out at Guitar Center and although very impressive I just do not have the funds. Besides, as a drummer I like the Axiom drum pads, assignable after touch and lighter weight.

thesoundsmith
03-22-2006, 02:24 PM
Styxx, I played this at NAMM, it feels good. The UFE has had a LOT of issues, if you go to their forum. It also doesn't feel that great, IMHO - the keys feel fine, but I do not feel comfortable using their sliders as drawbars. But the new one has motorized faders - adds weight, expense, lower reliability even more - but the cool factor is amazing!

If you can, I'd wait for the Axiom.

Styxx
03-22-2006, 03:28 PM
If you can, I'd wait for the Axiom. Going to have to. :)

thesoundsmith
03-30-2006, 07:44 AM
And I just called Sweetwater about the Axioms. They said the 25-key is ready, but the 61 won't ship till at least mid-May.:(

Styxx
03-30-2006, 02:24 PM
And I just called Sweetwater about the Axioms. They said the 25-key is ready, but the 61 won't ship till at least mid-May.:(
Yes, a salesperson at Florida Music informed me as to this fact. He also said he will beat anyone's price! May be worth looking into.

Styxx
04-25-2006, 10:50 AM
Have any answers as to how I can use the strad in Cubase SE without it cutting out on me every other note? SSV is awesome for me as a stand-alone. However, when I try to incorporate into the symphony I am writing, I don't believe my PC has enough processing speed to carry SSV and the other instruments with out problems. I tried freezing tracks and no change. Next, I rendered all the tracks to wav, started a new session, add in SSV and still no change in performance.
What do you think? Is it my processing speed of 2.66 ghz or something else?
Thanks.

amyhughes
04-25-2006, 01:39 PM
What is aftertouch used for with the Strad?

I have a Korg Kontrol49 which I'm liking more than I thought I would. I can program the touch pad to do the key switches, freeing up all 49 keys for the instrument. I have expression and damper pedals, pitch & mod, 8 sliders, 8 knobs, a joystick and a couple buttons that can all be programmed and stored in scenes.

But it doesn't have aftertouch. I can assign AT to another controller. How well that works depends on what it's used for. So, what is aftertouch used for with the Strad?

Thanks,
Amy

ZeroZero
04-25-2006, 02:43 PM
After touch is used for controllling Vibrato rate, along with the mod wheel that is used for vibrato intensity. Both controllers can be written in most sequencers.
After touch is not strictly speaking a controller it does not have a cc number, it is a 'voice message'. I am not sure about your keyboard.

http://www.gweep.net/~prefect/eng/reference/protocol/midispec.html and other sites will explain

Zero

amyhughes
04-25-2006, 03:56 PM
After touch is used for controllling Vibrato rate, along with the mod wheel that is used for vibrato intensity. Both controllers can be written in most sequencers.
After touch is not strictly speaking a controller it does not have a cc number, it is a 'voice message'. I am not sure about your keyboard.

A goodly number of keyboards send only channel pressure, so hopefully Strad responds to it. When you assign aftertouch to a control on the Kontrol49, you have a choice of aftertouch or channel pressure. For the former, aftertouch is applied only to the last key pressed.

Amy

ZeroZero
04-25-2006, 04:12 PM
I have heard different definitions of aftertouch and channel pressure. I believe the correct definition of channel pressure is where one signal is passed for the whole of the keyboard - this is what I believe the Strad responds to.
I have also heard these signals referred to as 'polyphonic' and 'channel aftertouch'. Aftertouch can be used in a slangish kind of way to refer to both also...... Some people distinguish between channel pressure and aftertouch - meaning polyphonic aftertouch. I think this is what you mean. Not sure what your keyboard responds to, but I think we agree that channel aftertouch is what the Strad responds to and your keyboard seems to have both.

Best wishes
Zero

beardedone
05-14-2007, 05:28 PM
I have a new set up for playing the Strad in Kontakt 2 Full, an Axiom 61 and a Yamaha FC-9 expression pedal. This keyboard controller is a very good value but I do have one problem with it. When playing the Strad I cannot hear any effect of aftertouch. Aftertouch (CC 131) appears with pressure dependent scaling on the Axiom display. but is not received by the instrument. I know thisthe case because recorded playing in Sonar 6 revealed no aftertouch data in the event view of recorded midi tracks. Does anyone know what could be the problem?

Best Regards,
Gordon

Haydn
05-15-2007, 12:20 AM
Do you have channel aftertouch enabled in Sonar? I believe this under the Global Options on the MIDI tab.

Jim

dermod
05-15-2007, 08:02 AM
As the thread is for the benefit of newbies, and as it would have frightened me off immediately looking at the size of the shopping list, it is worth adding one extra point. You can use the Strad effectively with no equipment whatsoever apart from a mouse and the mid/low priced notation programme Overture 4 which combines sequencer-type midi-editing, including after-touch. Strad comes with its own Kontakt player. Of course, working entirely in notation may not be suited to many people. It works for me though. I posted a demo piece for harp and strad some time ago to illustrate what you can get after a few days familiarisation with a mouse.

beardedone
05-15-2007, 12:27 PM
"Do you have channel aftertouch enabled in Sonar? I believe this under the Global Options on the MIDI tab."

I did not have it enabled. Thanks Haydn! I will see if that makes a difference. But I am still puzzled why aftertouch does nothing with Kontakt 2 full standalone.

Best Regards,
Gordon

beardedone
05-15-2007, 02:13 PM
And it works! Great stuff!

Thanks Haydn!

Best Regards,
Gordon

Haydn
05-15-2007, 11:49 PM
Your welcome!

I usually record without channel aftertouch to cut down on overhead. Sometimes I forget to turn it on when using Garritan libraries.

Jim

bmurrin
12-28-2007, 05:08 PM
I posted a demo piece for harp and strad some time ago to illustrate what you can get after a few days familiarisation with a mouse.

Hi, Dermod

Where can I find this demo? Any tips for realistic use of harp, particularly as it applies to glissandos? Thanks!

Barb

bmurrin
12-28-2007, 05:09 PM
I am also developing a list of functions in word, its not finished but you can have a peak at it.
Hi, Zero

Are you willing to share your Word doc? You can reach me at bmurrin@shaw.ca. Thanks.

Barb

rfdillon
01-04-2008, 07:00 PM
Folks, I have had GPO for a number of years, and mostly have used the Steinway from it, but I am now ready to delve in and attempt to master a few instruments. One of these is the Strad. I have a keyboard, brass, and vocal background, and have never played a real violin, so the learning curve might be a bit steep, but if I chip away at it every day, it will come.
I was wondering about hardware. I have a Roland A-80 88 key keyboard, as well as a regular sustain pedal. What expression controller foot pedal do you all recommend? I have several sliders that I can use, but reading the minimum requirements recommends an expression controller foot pedal of some sort, so I thought I'd ask what has worked out best for others?
I am also using Finale 2008 as well as Sonar 7 PE. Do you have any specific suggestions for using these tools with the Strad?
Thanks so much in advance for your help to a complete Noob!

dermod
01-04-2008, 08:36 PM
Hello barb

Here is a link on which you will find the strad/harp short demo piece. http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=342382 My interest then was mostly to see what I could get from the strad with a mouse (not being a keyboard player). The harp part is quite rudimentary, but there is one glissando which was done entirely by writing out the individual notes in a score. That is not difficult when working within a given key signature and having starting and ending note already in mind.

Best wishes
Dermod

spitfire31
01-05-2008, 07:58 PM
I have a Roland A-80 88 key keyboard, as well as a regular sustain pedal. What expression controller foot pedal do you all recommend?

Hi, and welcome!

Personally, I like the Yamaha FC7 expression pedal and have had a very good experience with it – it's built like a tank, has smooth, long throw movement, it's linear and will give the full range of CC#11 values.

However, it may need to have its polarity switched, if you're going to use it with a Roland keyboard.

I'd suggest you browse the following thread:

www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48873

which deals exclusively with expression pedals. Especially, please take note of Bosco Adama's final post on p. 5.

HTH and good luck,

Joey