3 pieces for VSL VI woodwinds

[JBacal]

I just did 3 pieces to test out the lyric potential of new VSL VI solo flute, clarinet and bassoon. I'm pleased with the results.

Thanks for listening.

Best,
Jay

1) Syrinx for solo flute by Claude Debussy
http://www.vsl.co.at/Player.aspx?DemoId=4668&Lang=2 (http://www.vsl.co.at/Player.aspx?DemoId=4668&Lang=2)

2) Fatasiestueck for clarinet and piano by Robert Schumann
http://www.vsl.co.at/Player.aspx?DemoId=4669&Lang=2 (http://www.vsl.co.at/Player.aspx?DemoId=4669&Lang=2)

3) Sonata for bassoon and piano by Camille Saint-Saens
http://www.vsl.co.at/Player.aspx?DemoId=4670&Lang=2 (http://www.vsl.co.at/Player.aspx?DemoId=4670&Lang=2)

[Markus S]

IMO, the woods are the strongest part in VSL (not counting those epic horns of course). It sounds very, very good. If only they hadn't invented this VI, too bad..

[Marcussen]

Apart from the price - the VI is the best thing to happen to VSL samples!

[Daryl]

IMO, the woods are the strongest part in VSL (not counting those epic horns of course). It sounds very, very good. If only they hadn't invented this VI, too bad..
I doubt that it could be done in this way without the VI.

D

[geronimo001]

It's great as always, VSL and the programming.

But i have a question for you and those who own VI, VSL claims to have reprogrammed a lot of the samples and I'm sure they did, but did you notice any change in the Violins legato p-f. The reason I'm asking is I've notice that those legato patch were a little weak as oppose to the ones in Chamber strings.

Thanks.

[Daryl]

It's great as always, VSL and the programming.

But i have a question for you and those who own VI, VSL claims to have reprogrammed a lot of the samples and I'm sure they did, but did you notice any change in the Violins legato p-f. The reason I'm asking is I've notice that those legato patch were a little weak as oppose to the ones in Chamber strings.

Thanks.
There are now other options, that you can use, and stacking in various formats is easier than ever, so you could easily have a different sound for every note if you liked.

I find the perf legato a little sterile, so I add a little something to it to make it sing more. However, for some things it is great.

The other thing is that there are now five (I think) different legato patches for Violin Ensemble, so there is plenty of choice,

D

[Markus S]

Apart from the price - the VI is the best thing to happen to VSL samples!

Yes, maybe for you, you are using 5-6 DAWs anyway, I believe -- I don't. ;) In addition, I don't like to keyswitch, it is faster for me to copy and paste to another track. I don't like the the dongle protection stuff either, just read the horror stories about people who can't deliver in last minite for a project, because their registration has gone (they don't want to ruin the buisness of their clients, do they?). And I have my doubts how the performance, loading times, polyphony etc are. If I buy a GS lib, I know what I get, I know that it'll work very well, I don't know that if I buy a VSL lib now (just look at the installation problem topics an the VSL forum). I am using alot of VSL now, and I love especially the winds, but I doubt I'll update one day to the VI.
Before I could just buy a VSL lib and add it to the rest of my samples and production methodes, know I'll have to install a new player, I have to get whole sections etc. I loved the turn they were taking with the horizon series, too bad (for me) it didn't continue.

Anyway, that is my POV, glad if works for you.

[Markus S]

I doubt that it could be done in this way without the VI.

D

Maybe, anyway, not to sound subversive.. those demos demonstrate the power of the VSL VI, but if I'd wanted to sound that real, I'd hire a clarinet player, this is even more real. IMO the use of samples makes the most sense in the context of a huge orchestra, anyway something that would be too expensive to hire for real. What is the point to have perfect solo parts, in the whole of the orchestra mix -- you wouldn't hear them anyway that precisly (it also would take too much time to programm all the parts this way to deliver fast to a client).
I am looking very much forward to the evolution legato scripts will take us : No more gigantic files, endless articulations, and still very good performance.

[kotori]

Yes, maybe for you, you are using 5-6 DAWs anyway, I believe -- I don't. ;) [...] To me it seemed by reading some reports that performance and RAM usage of the VI is better than for the common sampler counterparts (I don't know about loading times though). Am I mistaken?

[Daryl]

Yes, maybe for you, you are using 5-6 DAWs anyway, I believe -- I don't. ;) In addition, I don't like to keyswitch, it is faster for me to copy and paste to another track. I don't like the the dongle protection stuff either, just read the horror stories about people who can't deliver in last minite for a project, because their registration has gone (they don't want to ruin the buisness of their clients, do they?). And I have my doubts how the performance, loading times, polyphony etc are. If I buy a GS lib, I know what I get, I know that it'll work very well, I don't know that if I buy a VSL lib now (just look at the installation problem topics an the VSL forum). I am using alot of VSL now, and I love especially the winds, but I doubt I'll update one day to the VI.

In order to do a lot of what the VI does on separate tracks you would have to make extensive use of ghost notes and mixing. The beauty of the VI is that as it is all on one track (there are exceptions) this is already taken care of, so if you like to play live then the dynamics of all the articulations match.

I can understand that you don't like dongles, but unfortunately most music software seems to be going that way. I think that one of the reasons that VSL moved away from GS was that although Tascam was quite happy to protect their product with CP they didn't seem to mind that the sample developers were getting ripped off. Of the big sequence and audio application manufacturers I think only Cakewalk doesn't use a dongle.

The loading times are much faster than in GS and the sample engine (by my unscientific tests) is almost 100% more efficient. The downside is that I can't leave a template loaded in the same way as I used to with GS.

I also think that the installation problem is not huge. Firstly it seems to be mostly on Macs, and secondly in the grand scheme of things it is a very small number.

By all means leave it a while as there certainly are teething problems for a few people, but if you like the VSL woodwinds, then you'll love VI.

D

[metrobot]

Maybe, anyway, not to sound subversive.. those demos demonstrate the power of the VSL VI, but if I'd wanted to sound that real, I'd hire a clarinet player, this is even more real. IMO the use of samples makes the most sense in the context of a huge orchestra, anyway something that would be too expensive to hire for real. What is the point to have perfect solo parts, in the whole of the orchestra mix -- you wouldn't hear them anyway

not to be an ~~~, but this is like saying to da vinci after he finishes mona lisa, "that looks too real. if i wanted to look at something that realistic, i'd hire a model to stand around."

so you really want a clarinetist hanging around your living room all the time, in case you need her?

[Crystal]

Those demos are wonderful.

Impressive.

(About the piano, however, I’m not sure... it’s not the Bos 290, is it ? It sounds a bit tiny in the bassoon demo, IMO.)



I think that one of the reasons that VSL moved away from GS was that although Tascam was quite happy to protect their product with CP they didn't seem to mind that the sample developers were getting ripped off.

It’s maybe in the deal, but I think the principal reason is that GS can’t do what VIs do (speed detection etc...)

Trying to build specific GS patches to get most articulations in one track (for live recording), I can tell you... I understand very well why they developed their own tool. GS is very restricted for such a library.

VIs are first a big innovation.

VSL is since the beginning but specially now a software developer. It’s a very specific company.


Marcus S, did you have a look to their videos ?


I couldn’t sleep three days ago because of them... And had after that a severe look to my First Edition...

It’s the tool.

[JBacal]

Crystal--

Yes, the piano in the Saint-saens and Schumann is the PMI Bos 290. I agree that in the bassoon piece I made the stereo spread of the piano too narrow, and overall the piano is too quiet and distant. Oh well. It's hard not to lose perspective during long listening sessions. At least you can hear the bassoon clearly this way.:) And I love the almost saxophone-like tone quality a bassoon can have in its upper register.

Best,
Jay

[Markus S]

not to be an ~~~, but this is like saying to da vinci after he finishes mona lisa, "that looks too real. if i wanted to look at something that realistic, i'd hire a model to stand around."

so you really want a clarinetist hanging around your living room all the time, in case you need her?

lol, sorry, I didn't say it's "too real" :). The woods sound very good, best on the market, if you ask me (even before the VI, btw), but it is still far from the real thing. My point was : If I need a solo part perfectly played and realistic, it is faster, better and cheaper to hire a player. IMO, you don't need to have this level of realism in the context of huge orchestra arrangments, because it will be too much work, too much samples loaded, for too less noticable difference.(with this said, we didn't hear huge orchstra arrangments with the VI, maybe this will change my mind).
If I have to get 3 more DAWs but the new licences, buy a new reverb, take 3 weeks to hook it all up, to get a solo part done, I'd be better off hiring a player, who plays my part in no time.

[Daryl]

If I have to get 3 more DAWs but the new licences, buy a new reverb, take 3 weeks to hook it all up, to get a solo part done, I'd be better off hiring a player, who plays my part in no time.
I don't think that anyone is arguing about whether or not it is better to hire a real player. Hiring a real player for a couple of sessions is more expensive than the VI cost ( on a "per instrument" basis), so for demos it is not really an option. Certainly I can't produce a demo in a short time as good as these ones from Jay, but what I can do in real time beats the pants of any other comparable product on the market today.

D

[Markus S]

I can understand that you don't like dongles, but unfortunately most music software seems to be going that way. I think that one of the reasons that VSL moved away from GS was that although Tascam was quite happy to protect their product with CP they didn't seem to mind that the sample developers were getting ripped off. Of the big sequence and audio application manufacturers I think only Cakewalk doesn't use a dongle.

The loading times are much faster than in GS and the sample engine (by my unscientific tests) is almost 100% more efficient. The downside is that I can't leave a template loaded in the same way as I used to with GS.

I also think that the installation problem is not huge. Firstly it seems to be mostly on Macs, and secondly in the grand scheme of things it is a very small number.

By all means leave it a while as there certainly are teething problems for a few people, but if you like the VSL woodwinds, then you'll love VI.

D

OK, thanks for sharing your experience. I am actually a huge VSL fan (if not I wouldn't bother that much), about 75% of the sampels I use on a daily basis are from VSL.

OK let's say, I'd accept the dongle solution -- which I will not, as long as there are good sample developpers who don't use it -- let's say the engine is very good, better than GS3, let's say I'll get used to the keyswitching stuff.

I have 2 DAWs (2 GB ram each), which allow me to have about every articualtion I need on regular basis loaded in GS, and for each arrangment a good number of specific articualtions.

If I'd like to add the WW VI, can I install it on the same machine as GS (slave machine), with all the other articulations loaded in GS (brass strings percusions)? Will the FX teleport be able to "trasport" the audio information of both (VSL VI and GS)? Will both application runs snoothly along?
Or will I have to, as I underrstand it, buy a new PC, new FX teleport licence, new reverb (it is about 600,00$$) to get a 1.000,00$$ lib running? Is the difference worth that much?
Before I could just load the new VSL samples in my setup, this is what I am regretting here.

Question I have, too : To run the whole thing, do I need 5 PC hooked up each one of them running a VSL VI (2 GB RAM each), one additional PC for the reverb and one more for the host? Then sorry, this is too complicated and expensive for me. Opus 1 is such a great product, I really regret they do not work in this kind of optic anymore.

As far as I am concerned, I'll be looking for alternative sample developpers in the future, SAM is very promesing, SI sound pretty good, and maybe there will be some suprises with the new Kontakt scripting.

[Markus S]

I don't think that anyone is arguing about whether or not it is better to hire a real player. Hiring a real player for a couple of sessions is more expensive than the VI cost ( on a "per instrument" basis), so for demos it is not really an option. Certainly I can't produce a demo in a short time as good as these ones from Jay, but what I can do in real time beats the pants of any other comparable product on the market today.

D

Well, like I said, 500,00$$ the reverb, 1.000,00 $$ the woods, 1.000,00 the DAW. For 2.500,00 $$ I can hire some WW players for quite a while, not top class anyway, but with the feel of real players. You will have to count in the time, too, that I am not spending tweaking, so that I can use composing, which is also reflected in $$.

For demos my VSL setup is pretty good already.

[Daryl]

Hi Markus, I'll try to answer as best I can.

I have 2 DAWs (2 GB ram each), which allow me to have about every articualtion I need on regular basis loaded in GS, and for each arrangment a good number of specific articualtions.

If I'd like to add the WW VI, can I install it on the same machine as GS (slave machine), with all the other articulations loaded in GS (brass strings percusions)? Will the FX teleport be able to "trasport" the audio information of both (VSL VI and GS)? Will both application runs snoothly along?
Or will I have to, as I underrstand it, buy a new PC, new FX teleport licence, new reverb (it is about 600,00$$) to get a 1.000,00$$ lib running? Is the difference worth that much?
Before I could just load the new VSL samples in my setup, this is what I am regretting here.
I am currently testing GS and VI on the same machine. So far it isn't working too well, but it is early days. I can get them both to work, but there is a kind of audio glitch going on that I haven't sorted out yet. However, I never managed to get Gigapulse to work over the network, so it may just be my system. Assuming that I get it all figured out, then you should be able to work the way that you've always done.


Question I have, too : To run the whole thing, do I need 5 PC hooked up each one of them running a VSL VI (2 GB RAM each), one additional PC for the reverb and one more for the host? Then sorry, this is too complicated and expensive for me. Opus 1 is such a great product, I really regret they do not work in this kind of optic anymore.
Firstly you would put at least 3Gb RAM in each PC; I'm currently loading between 2.7 and 2.8Gb of samples per machine. Remember that this equates to around 5.5Gb in Gigastudio terms!!!! I am using the reverb on my DAW in exactly the same way as I used to do with GS, but this may not be what you want.

D

[Markus S]

Hi Markus, I'll try to answer as best I can.

I am currently testing GS and VI on the same machine. So far it isn't working too well, but it is early days. I can get them both to work, but there is a kind of audio glitch going on that I haven't sorted out yet. However, I never managed to get Gigapulse to work over the network, so it may just be my system. Assuming that I get it all figured out, then you should be able to work the way that you've always done.


Firstly you would put at least 3Gb RAM in each PC; I'm currently loading between 2.7 and 2.8Gb of samples per machine. Remember that this equates to around 5.5Gb in Gigastudio terms!!!! I am using the reverb on my DAW in exactly the same way as I used to do with GS, but this may not be what you want.

D

Hi Daryl,

thanks for the report -- I'll keep an eye on this, after all : never say never. :)

[Anton Bruckner]

It sounds great but it takes too much time to get such result. VSL is not for dayly pro work.

[Daryl]

It sounds great but it takes too much time to get such result. VSL is not for dayly pro work.
Maybe not for you, but I'm quite happy, thanks very much :>)

D

[Marcussen]

It sounds great but it takes too much time to get such result. VSL is not for dayly pro work.

Indeed.... Thats exactly what I use it for - every day. Anything else is a complete myth.

You just need to setup a good template