Anyone using Vienna Instruments ?

[PeterMcC]

Greetings-
Any giga users have experience with both the VSL horizon solo strings and teh new Vienna instruments SS?

The VI is a VST, (dongle required) and supposedly much more "player friendly"
than VSL SS?

having tried neither I wonder if anyone has, and can draw a comparison,
I currently use GS 3 orch and would like good solo strnigs with legato. I understand VSL is the KING at this, but I'm a newbie.

any input ?
thanks
PM

[geronimo001]

There's a couple of thread here about Vienna Instrument, here is one:
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44542
do a search and you will most likely find the others...Also, you should ask on the VSL forum where there are lots of vsl user.

P.S. The Solo violin from VSL is amazing, i don't have it yet but... From what I've read V.I. seems to be the way to go.

[dirk]

Peter,

FWIW, I am using both Gigastudio 3.1 and VI on the same machine. This is driven by ProTools on another machine.

I got a downloadable VST wrapper to run the VI. It is possible to run Gigastudio as VST inside the wrapper, but by running GS standalone, both VI+Wrapper and GS get their own process space, and therefore each has is own memory limit, rather than cramming them into the same process and memory limit.

The only issue is that GS seems to want to be started first; if the VST wrapper is started first, then GS won't come up.

And yes, the VI tool is extremely powerful. After fooling around with it for 15 minutes, I got the "ahah!" moment. Going back to re-do some old tracks, I found myself _reducing_ the number of required MIDI channels. I expect that over time I will be using less and less GS, as sounds get replaced by VI.

--Dirk

[PeterMcC]

hey thanks Dirk,

I use Nuendo, being VST and no wrapper needed, the VI folks tell me there are no issues having VI, GS and Nuendo on the same machine.

If I understand the VI concept,.. it uses no keyswitching.? but rather reponds to the way you play.
Is this true,? if it is,.. it's pretty incredible.

What'll be next?

OK,. VI ,... I'm thinking of a riff,.. can you guess what it is, and play it ?
LOL

best-

PM

[Daryl]

I use Nuendo, being VST and no wrapper needed, the VI folks tell me there are no issues having VI, GS and Nuendo on the same machine.PM

I am also using Nuendo but am streaming over a network, rather than loading them on the DAW. I can use GS3 and VI at the same time, but there are clicks in the sound, so for me they are unusable together. However, in my setup there are other possible culprits, so it might work for you.


If I understand the VI concept,.. it uses no keyswitching.? but rather reponds to the way you play.
Is this true,? if it is,.. it's pretty incredible.PM

best-

PMIt will respond to the speed of your playing, but everything else is done by a series of user customisable keyswitches and controllers.

D

[PeterMcC]

hey Daryl,
thanks for the input,

can you explain a bit more about the VI responding to the player, can basically I improvise with a solo string patch and not have to deal with keyswitches in order to articulate fast staccato or legato lines?

thanks again

Pm

[Daryl]

hey Daryl,
thanks for the input,

can you explain a bit more about the VI responding to the player, can basically I improvise with a solo string patch and not have to deal with keyswitches in order to articulate fast staccato or legato lines?

thanks again

Pm
For this you would use the Universal mode. The player detects how fast you are playing and automatically switches patches to give a faster attack. You use the modwheel to switch to staccato, and whilst there are many other things you can do in this mode, it all depends on your chops.

D

[dirk]

Actually, Daryl, the VI tool has a myriad of ways it can be used, not just keyswitches. For example:
- speed of playing
- keyswitches
- modwheel, or other midi controls
- a mixture of the above.

I have tended to set up some matrices which use speed for one dimension, and the modwheel for style (eg. legato vs. heavy vibrato vs. pizzicato). The only reason I am using modwheel instead of keyswitches is that I have a cleaner UI for that. But I am really just getting started.

Beat Kaufmann has set up a whole 3-dimensional matrix all based upon keyswitches. See <http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/tipspcmusic/vibasicpresets/index.php>

But the real point is that you suddenly have lots of options to set up an instrument to sound the way you want it to under various conditions.

I just got a starter set (Solo Strings) to see if I wanted to convert from my older (Giga) Vienna libs. I am now hooked - just time and money until I move everything to VI.

The only issue I have found so far is getting convolution reverb into the picture. I am expecting you can do this with Nuendo. I end up piping back to Pro Tools over ADAT, but this gives me fewer options than using GigaPulse inside GS.

--Dirk

[Daryl]

Actually, Daryl, the VI tool has a myriad of ways it can be used, not just keyswitches. For example:
- speed of playing
- keyswitches
- modwheel, or other midi controls
- a mixture of the above.

I have tended to set up some matrices which use speed for one dimension, and the modwheel for style (eg. legato vs. heavy vibrato vs. pizzicato). The only reason I am using modwheel instead of keyswitches is that I have a cleaner UI for that. But I am really just getting started.

Beat Kaufmann has set up a whole 3-dimensional matrix all based upon keyswitches. See <http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/tipspcmusic/vibasicpresets/index.php>

But the real point is that you suddenly have lots of options to set up an instrument to sound the way you want it to under various conditions.

I just got a starter set (Solo Strings) to see if I wanted to convert from my older (Giga) Vienna libs. I am now hooked - just time and money until I move everything to VI.

The only issue I have found so far is getting convolution reverb into the picture. I am expecting you can do this with Nuendo. I end up piping back to Pro Tools over ADAT, but this gives me fewer options than using GigaPulse inside GS.

--Dirk
Sorry, I do know all this; I was just trying not to complicate things too much.

Are you loading the VI on your DAW? If so, then you can load the reverb onto the VST outputs.

D

[dirk]

Sorry, I do know all this; I was just trying not to complicate things too much.

Are you loading the VI on your DAW? If so, then you can load the reverb onto the VST outputs.

D

Oops - of course you do (know this). I should have been replying to Peter McC.

Nope - my DAW is Pro Tools, which can't handle VST directly, and is also on a separate machine. I assume I will be getting a reverb plugin for my VST wrapper soon - probably the GigaPulse VST when it is available.

--Dirk

[PeterMcC]

thanks guys.

I asked because I have a bit more unusual need for the VI solo strings,.

I am interested in playing more progession rock & fusion styles using improv on the violin. go ahead laugh,... I know.

I also am a hack keyboardist, I play gtr synth for solos,. It would be cool to have a VI that responded to improv rather than having to keyswitch after the solo where I wanmt fast staccato and long legato etc,...

thanks for the input.
PM

[dirk]

Peter,

At the Musikmesse show in Frankfurt, VSL did a live demo, using a keyboard, and VI Solo Violin. It was very impressive.

In order to get one more layer of control, the demo artist used a breath controller (converts how hard you blow into a midi control channel) and then plugged that in as a different dimension to the Solo Violin. This gave him 3 layers of control: speed, keyswitch, and breath.

This might give you some of the live "improv" control you need. Of course, you could always use a footswitch/damper, or some other method to get the signal into VI.

--Dirk

[jovan]

Peter,

At the Musikmesse show in Frankfurt, VSL did a live demo, using a keyboard, and VI Solo Violin. It was very impressive.

In order to get one more layer of control, the demo artist used a breath controller (converts how hard you blow into a midi control channel) and then plugged that in as a different dimension to the Solo Violin. This gave him 3 layers of control: speed, keyswitch, and breath.

This might give you some of the live "improv" control you need. Of course, you could always use a footswitch/damper, or some other method to get the signal into VI.

--Dirk

I joined the same demo. It was great.
I was user of VSL Library perfomance edition.
In the meantime I bought VI (Solo Strings, Orchestral Strings I,II, Woodwinds I) and I'm very happy with it. It has more than doubled my performance.
I use the breath controller too together with a MIDI guitar. Works perfect.
I also assign the breath controller now in my sequencer (Sonar 4, Ableton Live) and notation program. Overture 4.

:-) Jovan

[PeterMcC]

Thanks again for the input,

what actually does a breath controller do?

How is it enhancing your gtr synth rig.
thank you very much.

Pm

[jovan]

The instruments of VI are layered, that means p,mp,mf,f,ff uses different samples.
Let me say, if you press a key with a certain sample (e.g. f), the f-sample starts. Now you can make this tone louder using volume or expression, but in this case allways the same sample is played.
If you use vel.x.fade of VI you can controll the volume of a tone by any controller. And different samples are merged. Another advantage of the breath controller is you may do it by mouth and your hands and feed are free.
And controlling of volume is like playing a woodwind instrument, which is much more natural than turning a wheel.

I hope, this helps.

:-) Jovan

[Nickie Fønshauge]

If you use vel.x.fade of VI you can controll the volume of a tone by any controller. And different samples are merged. Another advantage of the breath controller is you may do it by mouth and your hands and feed are free.
And controlling of volume is like playing a woodwind instrument, which is much more natural than turning a wheel.
The X-fade VSL instruments, that come with Kontakt 2 work this way. But they are not phase aligned, so at certain volumes they (the flute at least) sound like two or more instruments trying to play in unison. And that doesn't sound very nice. Do the VI instruments perform better in this respect?

[jovan]

The X-fade VSL instruments, that come with Kontakt 2 work this way. But they are not phase aligned, so at certain volumes they (the flute at least) sound like two or more instruments trying to play in unison. And that doesn't sound very nice. Do the VI instruments perform better in this respect?

I'm working now with VI (Woodwinds I, Solo Strings, Orchestral Strings) since two weeks & they work very well. I have not detected the problem you mentioned.

:-) Jovan

[Nickie Fønshauge]

OK, nice to hear. Thanks for the answer :)