Is Mac a better Choice for DAWs?

[chammell]

I've been a Windows user since 1.2, a Finale user since 1.1, a Cakewalk user since 2.0, and Giga since 2.0. But I'm finally wondering if this is all worth it. Is the Mac world any better for DAW? It's time for me to upgrade PC hardware, and I'm really thinking about Mac this time. Thoughts?

[dabbler]

The answer to your title question is no. They're not a better choice, just a different one.

The answer to the rest depends. Giga and Sonar are Windows only so running them on a Mac would be a hassle (bootcamp for intel I guess is the way... no idea if it would work). If you're looking for a change of sequencer and sampler too, Mac might suit you better personally, who knows?

[Daryl]

At the moment changing to Mac is a bad idea. The traditional machines are legacy hardware and the new ones don't run most of what a DAW needs very well. This will all change, but not for another six months or so.

Personally I'm trying to "make do" for the next year or so and will be upgrading once Vista is established as it will make the current PCs and Macs look like toys.

D

[RealJethro]

I've been a Windows user since 1.2, a Finale user since 1.1, a Cakewalk user since 2.0, and Giga since 2.0. But I'm finally wondering if this is all worth it. Is the Mac world any better for DAW? It's time for me to upgrade PC hardware, and I'm really thinking about Mac this time. Thoughts?

I have been using both Mac's and PC's professionally to make music for about ten years now. I can tell you from my experience that the problems I've encountered with the PC are tenfold that of the Mac. Bizarre, inexplicable things happen with the PC that rarely, if ever, happen on a Mac (programs/processes that won't shut down, etc.) And these are PC's that are never connected to the internet (no threat of viruses), and only run music apps -- nothing else installed. When things go wrong with a PC, everybody points the finger at each other: Software manufacturers say, "Can't be our app, you must have bad memory." Memory folks say, "Can't be our memory, you got a bad mother board." Mother board folks say, "Can't be us, you got bad software." Ad infinium.

With my Macs, I can trust that I'll turn them on, and they'll just reliably work, day after day. If GS were available in Mac format, I'd ditch the PC in a heartbeat. Reliability seems to be a crapshoot for PC's. Much less so for Macs.

[Will Loconto]

In my studio I have 7 PCs and 1 Mac. The Mac is my DAW, and that's all it is ever used for. Frankly, I'd feel comfortable running either Mac or PC as my main system, but when I need to upgrade mine, I will definitely buy another Mac.

Having said that, I'd agree with Daryl that now isn't the time to switch to a Mac. I'd wait until the Intel desktops are out and all the apps and plugins you'd want are ported over to Intel native.

And once Vista comes out on the PC side, I'd expect at least a year of "transition" where companies try to iron out all the problems and take advantage of running on the new operating system.

[dabbler]

What do Mac users do when they crash? They erase it from their memory and never talk about it again. Actually, this also sounds a bit like a Mac when it crashes... just closes down. Doesn't give you any clue as to what's wrong.


When things go wrong with a PC, everybody points the finger at each other: Software manufacturers say, "Can't be our app, you must have bad memory." Memory folks say, "Can't be our memory, you got a bad mother board." Mother board folks say, "Can't be us, you got bad software." Ad infinium.

With my Macs, I can trust that I'll turn them on, and they'll just reliably work, day after day. If GS were available in Mac format, I'd ditch the PC in a heartbeat. Reliability seems to be a crapshoot for PC's. Much less so for Macs.

[Daryl]

Macs are no more reliable than PCs. This was not the case about eight years ago, but things have changed. For example Macs generally used to be faster than PCs; these days the top spec PCs smoke anything that Apple can put together. I know people who have had problems with both platforms. I only ever had problems with Macs; my PCs have been trouble free. There are advantages and disadvantages to both platforms, so in the end it is really down to personal choice.

D

[chammell]

Thanks to you all so far for your responses.

Let me ask another question: does the platform matter at a professional collaborative level? As a songwriter or scoring composer, will Windows be a limiting factor in working with others? I guess with Finale, no problems. But with audio and sequencing, it seems pro studios are exclusively Mac. If I were to take audio tracks to a session, they should probably be Pro Tools files and I should be adept at using that tool on the Mac platform, no? In other words, in the pro studio environment, isn't the Mac the overwhelming platform for DAW (except for GS)?

[dabbler]

Thanks to you all so far for your responses.
Let me ask another question: does the platform matter at a professional collaborative level?


No.



As a songwriter or scoring composer, will Windows be a limiting factor in working with others?


No.



I guess with Finale, no problems. But with audio and sequencing, it seems pro studios are exclusively Mac.


Some are... some are exclusively PC, some use both.



If I were to take audio tracks to a session, they should probably be Pro Tools files and I should be adept at using that tool on the Mac platform, no?


No. Platform doesn't matter with ProTools.



In other words, in the pro studio environment, isn't the Mac the overwhelming platform for DAW (except for GS)?

No.

Two final statements -

1. The philosophy that Macs and Windows machines can't live in harmony is largely outdated. They can share files easily.
2. If you are on a tight budget, you'll find that the Mac platform is not your friend. Forget the initial expense which may not be significantly different to PC's - costs of ownership through upgrades and poor choice of titles makes the Mac more expensive to run.

[kitekrazy]

2. If you are on a tight budget, you'll find that the Mac platform is not your friend. Forget the initial expense which may not be significantly different to PC's - costs of ownership through upgrades and poor choice of titles makes the Mac more expensive to run.

Well said. I noticed Logic is about $1000. Seemed like Mac users got screwed in that deal when people wouldn't give up their PC for Mac/Logic.

Anyone who knows how to build a system can build a great PC for half the price of a Mac.

I hear Macs are top notch for working with video.

[RealJethro]

What do Mac users do when they crash? They erase it from their memory and never talk about it again. Actually, this also sounds a bit like a Mac when it crashes... just closes down. Doesn't give you any clue as to what's wrong.

Honestly, I don't remember the last time my Mac crashed (system-wide crash) -- apps will sometimes crash, and if you know how to read the crash report, you may be able to figure out why. But OS X is a very solid OS. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of times my entire Windows box has crashed.

As far as cost of ownership goes, I have personally found Macs more economical in the long run. For example, my G3 desktop that I bought around '97 is still running quite nicely. I used it as my primary DAW machine up until summer of '04. That's quite a run. Contrast that with my first PC/Giga box I put together in '01 -- it quite literally died in '04. RIP. The best PC/Microsoft-employee gurus couldn't figure out why it died. Par for the course in PC-land, my experience says. For me, downtime and unnecessary fiddling with computers = lost $.

[Nick Batzdorf]

Actually, this also sounds a bit like a Mac when it crashes... just closes down. Doesn't give you any clue as to what's wrong.

I'm ignoring the silly partisan stuff in this thread (and especially in this post :)), but just a correction: sure it gives you a clue. If you don't get a dialog, there's always the crash log.

[dabbler]

I'm ignoring the silly partisan stuff in this thread (and especially in this post :)),


In my experience, most PC/Mac wars are started by Mac users... as is the case here.



but just a correction: sure it gives you a clue. If you don't get a dialog, there's always the crash log.

But what the hell do they mean? I just checked "crash reporter". There are fifteen logs... that's worrying! My PC's haven't crashed that much between them.

[dabbler]

Honestly, I don't remember the last time my Mac crashed (system-wide crash) -- apps will sometimes crash, and if you know how to read the crash report, you may be able to figure out why. But OS X is a very solid OS. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of times my entire Windows box has crashed.


System crash... app crash. What does it matter? It's still a crash. That frequently means lost work and lost time.

Windows is stable too. Maybe you shouldn't be building your own computers.



As far as cost of ownership goes, I have personally found Macs more economical in the long run. For example, my G3 desktop that I bought around '97 is still running quite nicely. I used it as my primary DAW machine up until summer of '04. That's quite a run.

Contrast that with my first PC/Giga box I put together in '01


You put it together? That's probably it. The PC I bought in 1996 is still running and in daily use - my father uses it. His needs are modest. In the 20 or so computer purchases I've made in the last 18 months (mostly at work), only one has had a serious problem. It's a G5 whose motherboard died, just out of the 12 month warranty. The purchase ratio has been in the region of 15 PC's (2xToshiba laptops, 1xHP Pentium and 12xSona Pentiums) and 5 Mac's (including 3x G5's, 1xPowerbook and 1xiMac).

A non-budget PC will be as reliable as a Mac. They are both reliable and should outlast their usefulness if required for heavy work before serious hardware failure.

All of the PC's I've ever owned have lasted as long as their technology has made them useful. In other words, I've replaced every one because of being too slow to operate new software rather than because of hardware failure.

PC or Mac. In this day and age it comes down to personal preference. They're both reliable (relative to previous generations), can run in harmony and have a wide variety of available software.

While I'm not saying that Microsoft has solid integrity, I think it's worrying that Apple chooses so often to market its advertising with information that retains a vagueness to avoid law suits, but which suggests a superiority over Windows that doesn't exist.

Rich

[RealJethro]

System crash... app crash. What does it matter? It's still a crash. That frequently means lost work and lost time.

It matters because, while anyone can make an app that crashes, having a stable system indicates a more stable platform. The person who started this thread was asking about which platform is the better choice for DAWs.


Windows is stable too. Maybe you shouldn't be building your own computers.

The aforementioned computer was put together by a now-Microsoft employee/IT expert who has an alphabet soup list of credentials. I also had a PC/DAW expert work on it, as well. Everything was done to meet and/or exceed Giga's recommended PC specs. Since then, I bought a Dell, and, while more stable than the previous PC, still has 10x the problems that my G5 has and all it does is run Giga.


You put it together? That's probably it. The PC I bought in 1996 is still running and in daily use - my father uses it. His needs are modest. In the 20 or so computer purchases I've made in the last 18 months (mostly at work), only one has had a serious problem. It's a G5 whose motherboard died, just out of the 12 month warranty. The purchase ratio has been in the region of 15 PC's (2xToshiba laptops, 1xHP Pentium and 12xSona Pentiums) and 5 Mac's (including 3x G5's, 1xPowerbook and 1xiMac).

I'm glad your PC experience has been relatively trouble-free. The problem with PC's, from my experience, is that when things go wrong, everybody points the finger at everybody else. You're stuck in the middle. Trouble shooting a Mac is a much easier process -- since going OS X, I've actually had nothing to trouble shoot.



While I'm not saying that Microsoft has solid integrity, I think it's worrying that Apple chooses so often to market its advertising with information that retains a vagueness to avoid law suits, but which suggests a superiority over Windows that doesn't exist.

Rich

The aforementioned Microsoft-employee/IT friend of mine acknowledges the OS X is an overall superior OS to Windows, and will likely continue to be so even after Vista is released (dont' tell Bill he said so!) But he chalks it up to the necessity of having to support so much legacy hardware, among other things. But if Windows floats your boat, go for it, I say.

[Nick Batzdorf]

But what the hell do they [crash logs] mean? I just checked "crash reporter". There are fifteen logs... that's worrying! My PC's haven't crashed that much between them.


The 15 crashes almost certainly don't mean you have 15 different problems. For example, if you try to insert a Syncrosoft-protected plug-in and have the dongle unplugged (usually on another machine, in my case), you will get a crash.

Or if you try to load too many samples into a player, you can get a crash. You just relaunch and try again.

Another example: the email program Mail has an intermittent bug on my system that causes it to crash sometimes when you go back a quote level (i.e. use the keyboard command to remove attribution marks). That's certainly crashed more than 15 times on my machine over the past year, but I know to save the message I'm writing before doing that in case it crashes. If it does, I just reopen the program and continue.

These kinds of problems happen with all computers, and you'll see them listed in your crash log. I don't know how to read the crash log either, but the main thing is that it tells you what crashed, what was running at the time, and what you have attached to your system.

[mike harper]

for me i believe the follwing is true:
1. keep your PC's clean and internet free. i moved all of my NON audio apps to linux xandros.
since then my PC's are rock solid.
2. I do believe the MAc OS is superior but the hardware speed is about the same.
so its hard to justify jumping from one platform to another.
i like buidling my own PC's but thats not for everyone. many would like to just buy a MAC. and not spend too many hours on tech/geek stuff.
3. both have great programs. PC: cubase sonar samplitude , sequoia . on Mac: Logic and digital performer, and protools.
try out some apps on each one its almost impossible to make a bad decision.

[williemyers]

I'm a 5 x Mac (PTools, Digital Perf, Sibelius, Finale, Final Cut Pro, etc.), 1 x PC (Giga3) user. I've read thru all the replies (and rants) here and I have to say that the last reply was the one to nail the answer. Mike Harper wrote "both (platforms) have great programs. PC: cubase sonar samplitude , sequoia . on Mac: Logic and digital performer, and protools...try out some apps on each one".
It calls back the old adage from the '80's that's still rock solid today...."*DON'T* pick hardware, pick *software*. Then get the hardware that it'll run on." Find the DAW app that you're in love with then get the box to run it. It's really the only way to go. Many pro apps these days are fine on either, but if you're going to run a number of pro apps on a single box, sort out all of the apps that you want to run and they will point you down the best road.

[dabbler]

try out some apps on each one its almost impossible to make a bad decision.

That assumes both platforms are available to the user. That is rarely the case.

[kitekrazy]

Of course if you are also a gamer, Mac is a bad choice. The gaming community has pretty much left the Mac platform.

And there are some that tell you to ditch both and go Linux.

[synthnut]

I've used both Mac and PC.....I can't speak for the latest Mac's but my Dual Processor 500 work's fine, and is basically crash free running Digital Performer w/audio ..Sequencer programs and audio seem to run better , and more efficiently on a Mac ....When it comes to Virtual Instruments, and sample programs like giga , or Kontakt , etc the nod goes to PC .... The PC is an open architecture and is open to so many problems that you rarely face on a Mac .... Running a bare bones PC works best for the least amount of problems .... The PC and Mac are both good at what they do , but I find that I have to be WAY more carefull when working with my PC, and I cross my fingers with every program I load .... I never had to troubleshoot my Mac as it ran without a hitch ....When I switched to PC , I scambled to learn troubleshooting as there were so many things making my computer crash...What saved my butt was that there are more PC users, and they have most all of the problems that I had already figured out !!... PC users are great trouble shooters out of necessity .... I'm hearing that the newer Mac's are not as problem free as the older one's, and I can tell you from experience that as time goes on , and the processors from Apple get faster, the programs that run on them need the extra power to work only as fast as the older programs on the older machines did .... This is why I stopped at a lower version of Digital Performer, and stopped chasing my tail thinking that I would get more done with a faster Mac ....It didn't happen !!.....Jim

[jaythansparks]

I realize that this is an old thread, but just for the record.... Mac is best to me... I beleive it's all matter of opinion....... I prefer mac... I've been a mac user for well over 10 years...(fifteen to be exact) and all the problem that I have encounter on the mac side gasve me knowledge and encourament to deal with the pc side..... "a matter of opinion"

Jaythan