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View Full Version : Sorry to do this but...Orchestral library suggestions?



jpjohn1980
05-24-2006, 12:47 AM
I know the topic of "best" orchestra is a tired one on this site - unfortunately, those of us asking are usually fairly new to this whole thing. I've been using GPO for the last year or so, and enjoying it. I've been composing for short films (and am doing a feature in the next month), so I've been wanting to up the ante of my orchestral pallete.

I've done a lot of searching on this site for opinions. I've listened to demos. But, seeing as how this is a fairly "big" investment for a poor guy like me, I'm hoping for friendly opinions.

It boils down to this: I am considering buying Kontakt 2 and getting the Kirk Hunter Emerald. I've heard a lot of good things about KHSO Emerald (but some scary things about Kontakt 2). But, for this price (around $550-600) I could save a little extra (okay about twice as much) and get the Vienna Opus bundle (played in EXS 24) or East West Gold. There is also Peter Siedlezak's retread of AO and Miroslav's "new" library. Of course, there is Sonic Implants - but its a little out of price range.

Opinions for a poor guy like me? Thanks alot!!

Josh

ZareOne
05-24-2006, 01:42 AM
I would go for KHSO Emerald! The Kontakt 2.1 update fixes some issues and brings some cool features. Emerald is the best bang for the buck at this time. You could complement it with ProjectSAM True Strike for percussion. I think the possibilities Kontakt has are endless if you want to tweak your samples, and the newest scripts are awesome (Big Bob's SIPS, for example).

Of course, this is going to be a personal decision, so...

I hope to have helped a bit (maybe you're more hesitant now)

ZareOne
05-24-2006, 01:46 AM
I was writing my response, while Tom was too. Very similar respones :)

KH Emerald..... Two points!

dko22
05-24-2006, 02:50 AM
I'm in a very similar situation having started a year ago with GPO and while being initially happy with most of it (solo strings are the biggest weakness), I now find it's time to spread my wings. I'm also considering KH, partly on the basis of the demos, some of which are very impressive, but also the many options that allow you to choose for instance either mod wheel or velocity for voluime should give maximum compatibility with past projects. Kontakt 2 may even give GPO a new lease of life! It's of course also possible that GPOA will give GPO a big new lease of life but we have (as far as I'm aware) little idea of what will be in it, when it will be released and how much it will cost at this stage.

Steve_Karl
05-24-2006, 04:49 AM
KH Emerald!

karmacomposer
05-24-2006, 07:10 AM
KHSO Emerald - by the way, ever hear of forum SEARCH? This topic has been used and abused a hundred times before. A simple search would have net you all the answers you would ever need.

Mike

Marcussen
05-24-2006, 07:19 AM
A search would never have given him a thread where everyone unanimously vouches for KH's Emerald. Quite remarkable.

Regarding other choices I would say that Gold is good bang for the buck, and VSL's Opus is also quite a force (which to get is a matter of taste). Neither would require you do get K2 (although you could).

sghoughton
05-24-2006, 07:41 AM
Another vote for KH. New libs come out, new versions of them come out and prices drop which makes this question pretty pertinent every few months i'd think.

steve

KirkHunter
05-24-2006, 08:53 AM
Thanks for the votes, everyone. I appreciate it!

Currently, (for anyone who buys or already has Khso Emerald) you can get some bonus 24 Violins instruments and samples (Kontakt 2.1 version only).
These are designed to preview just a few of the features of the upcoming Khso Ruby. These particular instruments and samples showcase the great control of the hall samples (hall amount, hall size, early reflection). You also get some runs too! Once you've extracted the .zip file, put everything that's INSIDE the "AddTo24ViolinsFolder" folder into your existing "24Violins" folder.

Download them at http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/AddTo24ViolinsFolder.zip

Don't forget to get the skins at http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/Skins.zip

sghoughton
05-24-2006, 10:09 AM
Kirk,

Do you have any estimated time frame (even on the order of summer, fall, winter) that Ruby is going to be available?

Looking forward to that.

steve

KirkHunter
05-24-2006, 10:30 AM
Kirk,

Do you have any estimated time frame (even on the order of summer, fall, winter) that Ruby is going to be available?

Looking forward to that.

steve

Hi Steve

It's taking longer than I thought because I'm implementing not only the features already described at http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/ruby.html but also scripted control of the actual surround placement. That takes a long time looping, etc. So look for it mid-late summer for now.

Thanks!

dalek3
05-24-2006, 11:34 AM
jpjohn1980 -

I can't speak for Kontakt but I'm a GigaStudio 3 user and love it.. I had to set up a second box just to run it alone but since then it's worked fantastic.. I've gotten great polyphony from it.. and GVI promises to run pretty reliably on your main DAW box along with cubase, etc.

KH emerald runs on Giga too.. It's my main library that I use for orchestral work and I also say that KH emerald is probably the way to go for you..

A disadvantage from your POV though about the GigaStudio is that GPO can't be really integrated with GigaStudio.. you could get them running on the same system but they wouldn't be sharing resources.

KirkHunter - a question about Ruby.. I've found myself preferring your Kirk Hunter Concert Brass library for brass work over the brass in KH Emerald.. is the brass going to be improved at all in Ruby?

Von Richter
05-24-2006, 04:55 PM
I'm in the same boat... not a lot of money to throw around. KH Emerald is probably the best music-related purchase I've ever made, a great bang for the buck.

zebu68
05-25-2006, 01:38 AM
Please consider the following facts :

1.GPO is a streched library /not every sound sampled/ . Very Poor quality!!!http://northernsounds.com/forum/images/icons/icon8.gif
2. EMERALD is not streched ,but needs K2, both together costs a lot.
3.K2 has 7.5 Gb VSO Library ,it is quite good.
Why than Emerald ?
4.EWQL GOLD is very good needs no K2 / 15 Gb. 16 bit /http://northernsounds.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif
5.Last, Halion Symphonic Orchestra 27 Gb ,Includs Halion Strings 2 /16bit
And 24bit /needs no K2, Standalone and Vst. Dxi.etc./


Just figure out QUALITY and COSTS ??? and listen to the samples !!!

Ted Vanya
05-25-2006, 12:52 PM
This may not belong to this thread, but (I have KH Emerald on Giga 3.12 Orchestra) recently I tried,what I think Kirk himself suggested some time ago, to stack on top of Emerald violins some of the included Chamber violins.
Very, very good! I did the same on all the strings, now I have an even better string section.
I love the whole library, but now I am crazy about it...

Ted

Garritan
05-25-2006, 02:52 PM
Please consider the following facts :

1.GPO is a streched library /not every sound sampled/ . Very Poor quality!!!http://northernsounds.com/forum/images/icons/icon8.gif

zebu68. I don't believe you have your "facts" correct Most of the instruments in GPO are chromatically sampled. Only the Lite and Ensemble (PLR) variants use sample stretching.

As far as quality, professional reveiws and award-givers in the industry have a different opinion:
"it is the quality of the instruments that drives this package." Game Developer Magazine (earning the Frontline Award)

"great sounds" Craig Anderton, EQ Magazine

"superb quality sounds " Keyboard Player

"great-sounding" Keyboard Magazine

"some of the best sampled woodwinds I have heard" Sound on Sound

"great-sounding orchestral samples." MacUser

"It's possible to make this sound like a samplebank that should come with a four-figure price tag." Computer Music Magazine (Two Awards)

Personal Orchestra has been recognized with a nomination for a Technical Excellence & Creativity (TEC) Award for “Outstanding Technical Achievement" in the Musical Instrument Technology category. The only orchestral sample library this past year to be rnominated.

"the true sound of a full orchestra" Association of Independent Feature Film Producers

" GPO is a high quality product....the most significant sample-based instrument library ever to be produced..." Music4Games

"Garritan has turned the sample world on its head by offering us the Garritan Personal Orchestra, a superbly recorded and, better yet, superbly programmed library" Screentalk

"one of a kind...solo instruments sampled from the best classical instruments made between the XVII and the XVIII century, as the Stradivari, the Gagliano and Guarnieri for the strings, which can be combined to make string sections made by single instruments...The GPO has an excellent quality/price ratio" Computer Music Italy

Garritan Personal Orchestra has been recognized with a nomination for the Musikmesse International Press Award (MIPA) in the "Best Sound Library" Category.
These are but a few of the accolades that attest to the quality of the sound of GPO. The instruments sampled in GPO are of the highest quality of any orchestral library. ;)

Garritan
05-25-2006, 02:56 PM
I know the topic of "best" orchestra is a tired one on this site - unfortunately, those of us asking are usually fairly new to this whole thing. I've been using GPO for the last year or so, and enjoying it. Josh,

I am very glad you are enjoying GPO and want to expand your palette. GPO was designed to democratize and get people interested in orchestral sampling. One of the goalsl was for people to gravitate to other libraries and to benefit the industry. Sample libraries are not mutually exclusive and many musicians now own a multitude of libraries. Since GPO there are at least a dozen orchestral libraries that have come on the market and all of them are very good. Fortunately prices have come down considerably and it is posssible to but more than six libraries for what a single library cost only a couple of years ago.

To supplement your sounds, the best thing to do is to "try before you buy". Soundware is such a personal thing and the sounds one person loves are disliked by others (one man's junk is another man's treasure). The best way to decide what is right for you is to try them. You can also research by reading unbiased reviews from the professional trade magazines. If practical, try to go to a local music store that has various libraries and test them, or go to a friends that has various libraries and try them out.

Hope this helps.

Gary Garritan

beach
05-25-2006, 03:49 PM
GPO has been my first library together with Silver of EW and I think it is one of the more flexible libraries I never found and its sound is ABSOLUTELY great.

Listen to these:

ALL GPO 1 (http://www.robertferrari.com/RobertoFerrari-%20somewhere%20in%20the%20sky.mp3)

ALL GPO 2 (http://www.robertferrari.com/The_Earth_Heaven.mp3)

MAINLY GPO patches (http://www.robertferrari.com/RobertoFerrari-Long_Time.mp3)

And as gary said there are a lot of choises and now is depending only on what you want to achieve!!!

Everyone said for Kirk Hunter!
Unfortunately I don't have money enough to buy this very acclaimed library!! I hope in the future. Actually I was always interested in KH sound!!
And these libraries that are coming out look promising!!!

And I work also with EW samples and VSL coming from K2 and I think that they are all really good!!

All the best,
Roberto

Hardy Heern
05-25-2006, 04:46 PM
GPO has been my first library together with Silver of EW and I think it is one of the more flexible libraries I never found and its sound is ABSOLUTELY great.

Listen to these:

ALL GPO 1 (http://www.robertferrari.com/RobertoFerrari-%20somewhere%20in%20the%20sky.mp3)

ALL GPO 2 (http://www.robertferrari.com/The_Earth_Heaven.mp3)

MAIN GPO patches (http://www.robertferrari.com/RobertoFerrari-Long_Time.mp3)

And as gary said there are a lot of choises and now is depending only on what you want to achieve!!!

Everyone said for Kirk Hunter!
Unfortunately I don't have money enought to buy this very acclaimed library!! I hope in the future. Actually I was always interested in KH sound!!
And these libraries that are coming out look promising!!!

And I work also with EW samples and VSL coming from K2 and I think that they are all really good!!

All the best,
Roberto












My Godness, Roberto......that is an exquisite defence of GPO....still hanging in there as a great value for money choice.....although to be fair (and I really do try to be), EWQL Silver is very good value at the currrent Soundsonline offer price. Gold is also on offer at the moment.......great value........

Based on demos alone, (and comment) I would have to say that KH Emerald also seems to be an exceptional library at the price. KH could do worse than to give you a, reduced price, copy as you know how to squeeze the best from a library!! :)

Frank

Ted Vanya
05-26-2006, 10:58 AM
Kirk Hunter:

I am trembling in my boots, and hope I am misunderstanding. Ruby is for K2 only? The new downloadable samples (24Vn + Chamber) are also for K2.
You are abandoning us Giga-users? I hope not.
Could you clarify this for us?

Thanks

sghoughton
05-26-2006, 11:06 AM
Ted,

Its time to move to the dark side....

Scripting in K2 is a very powerful thing. Drop by and I'll show ya

steve

Bruce A. Richardson
05-26-2006, 11:25 AM
Ted,

Its time to move to the dark side....

Scripting in K2 is a very powerful thing. Drop by and I'll show ya

steve

It is important....VERY important, to consider that GS3 implements a huge number of features, natively, that require scripting to accomplish in Kontakt. Scripting is not a panacea.

In fact, the largest obstacle in any sample library I can think of has nothing to do with the playback technology at all, but in the session and instrument designs themselves. Almost every weakness in any library you can name is session-related, not sampler related.

Bruce A. Richardson
05-26-2006, 11:27 AM
You can also research by reading unbiased reviews from the professional trade magazines.

Yes, advertising driven media is one of the most unbiased sources of information available to musicians.

Garritan
05-26-2006, 11:49 AM
Yes, advertising driven media is one of the most unbiased sources of information available to musicians.Bruce, you write for magazines yourself. Are you implying we should not believe the many positive reviews written about GigaStudio or the other fine products? :rolleyes:

There are excellent magazines with many great writers and to imply they may be less than unbiased is curious.

geronimo001
05-26-2006, 12:14 PM
I love building KS instrument in GS3...it's easyer and more practical than K2.
Plus the DEF fonction is very powerfull/efficient and I'm gettingg to like PFR too...

GS3 should not be over looked.

geronimo001
05-26-2006, 12:21 PM
Yes, advertising driven media is one of the most unbiased sources of information available to musicians.

I'm afraid that's thrue. It seems everybody has it's price these days, maybe people are desilusioned and they just don't care anymore...Who knows?

To Gary "I'm sure GPO deserve the reveiws that it had"

Thonex
05-26-2006, 12:23 PM
..

Scripting in K2 is a very powerful thing. Drop by and I'll show ya



Drop by where? Are you talking about a scripting forum?

Link?

Cheers,

T

Garritan
05-26-2006, 12:39 PM
I'm afraid that's thrue. It seems everybody has it's price these days, maybe people are desilusioned and they just don't care anymore...Who knows?Many writers in the music press are people of journalistic integrity and do care.

VI Magazine has advertisers and does this mean we should not read its reviews? If a magazine is biased simply because it has advertisers, then why subscribe? The same can be said with Sound on Sound, Mix, Electronic Musician and the other fine magazines.

Marcussen
05-26-2006, 01:59 PM
Many writers in the music press are people of journalistic integrity and do care.

VI Magazine has advertisers and does this mean we should not read its reviews? If a magazine is biased simply because it has advertisers, then why subscribe? The same can be said with Sound on Sound, Mix, Electronic Musician and the other fine magazines.

I have never read those magazines, but do they ever feature bad reviews? Do they ever give a product one star and advise users to stay far away. And if so - have they ever done it with advertisers?

My guess is that it is with magazines as it is with forums and political parties. They are surely to a degree controlled, or atleast tamed by their benefactors.

sghoughton
05-26-2006, 02:08 PM
Drop by where? Are you talking about a scripting forum?

Link?

Cheers,

T

Actually, Ted lives in a near town to me so i could show him my K2 setup.

Bruce, I actually have GS3 ensemble myself. I got intro'd to Kontakt through any one of about 10 packages that i have that come with the Kontakt player. The only reason i leaned more that way is because all the stuff i had seemed to lean that way and or came as kontakt libraries. I think thats been a big part of kontakts success, no matter what its capabilities are - and now with some of the scripts available, it makes some of the older libraries even more functional. I find it quite easy to use and have never had the problems other people seem to have. Dont have major load issues either, though i dont do huge things.

I'd actually like to use gs3 a bit more since i already have it, but may just wait til the GVI comes out and upgrade to that to pay it more attention.

steve

geronimo001
05-26-2006, 02:12 PM
Many writers in the music press are people of journalistic integrity and do care.

VI Magazine has advertisers and does this mean we should not read its reviews? If a magazine is biased simply because it has advertisers, then why subscribe? The same can be said with Sound on Sound, Mix, Electronic Musician and the other fine magazines.

To tell you the truth i don't have any basses for my claims and I've never subscribed to any magazine so my words don't mean much... but in a world where governments can be bought I've become a little suspicious just about everything, and watching the medias witch are no longer reliable is not helping.;)

But i suppose things could be deferent in the software/sample industry, if those writers are as passionate as i am about sounds and i suppose they are, then it's possible that they care. So maybe your right after all.

P.S. I once saw a very credible interview of a man here in Canada claiming that the car magazine where bias and corrupted. The way things worked is that in exchange for a good review they lend you a bran new car for quilt long period of time...That's not helping either.:|:

Geronimo.

Garritan
05-26-2006, 02:19 PM
I have never read those magazines, but do they ever feature bad reviews? Do they ever give a product one star and advise users to stay far away. And if so - have they ever done it with advertisers?

My guess is that it is with magazines as it is with forums and political parties. They are surely to a degree controlled, or atleast tamed by their benefactors.Almost every manufacturer has been subject to a less than stellar magazine review at one time or another (even in magazines they advertise in). And there are very positive reviews given to non-advertisers as well. For example, the vast majority of magazines that have given GPO stellar reviews I do not advertise with.

With the reputable magazines there usually is a wall of separation between editorial and advertising. Magazines are more concerned about journalistic integrity then the handful of ads that a particular manufacturer may decide to run. They know that the continuance of their readership relies on their objectivity and accuracy of the information.

dewdman42
05-26-2006, 03:52 PM
Well, for my part, I just threw down $299 for KH Emerald (Audiomidi.com). Chalk it up to another one.

Considering that it includes the Chamber strings and all the great reviews I've read here, I'm rather excited to get it and layer it together with GPO.

I think GPO is a great library which I have barely scratched the surface of learning. My general impression about GPO is that it takes a bit of work to really make it sound great. There are indeed, IMHO, plenty of mediocre sounding GPO-based demos. But there are also some stupendously great sounding ones. The difference is that the great sounding ones have a lot of detail that went into the sequencing. Francesco's GPO demos are awesome. I think the brasses in GPO lack balls, that's the main reason I added Emerald, but I have a feeling I will layer in the KH strings as well.

For the price, GPO is still an incredible product, particularly for someone learning about orchestration (like me).

In some ways, the simplicity of GPO, not having to worry about a zillion articulations and different patches to use, makes it so that someone like me can think more about composing and less about sample manipulation/selection. I don't think I would say that Emerald is the new GPO. I still think GPO is a better first-time-orchestrator to get their feet wet with this kind of music...or even the first time midi-orchestrator who has done some real orchestration but just starting to use computers for this. Must drink your milk before you can eat your meat.

GPO also has integration with Finale and other products, which again, makes it a great out-of-the-box composing solution. However, it does take quite a bit of manual labor to get the GPO library to sound "big". For this reason I got Emerald to layer with it. I'll probably still use GPO for composing and working out my arrangements..then emerald to sweeten it. If I didn't already own Kontakt2, I might have considered EWQL Gold instead of Emerald. It has a movie score sound. That's where I'm at. But since I already own Kontakt2, Emerald is a better value at this point...and also I'm quite impressed with Kirk's participation on this forum, the scripts and skins that keep coming out for it, etc..

The Emerald Demos sound big too. In some ways I like the Emerald sound better than the EWQL sound since the big blockbuster hollywood sound is so overused anymore. I'm kind of not interested in making those super big hollywood sounding scores anymore. Something a little more intimate, but not quite as intimate and "classical" sounding as GPO is. This is where Emerald is I think. Plus the brass attackes are plenty ballsy to get the accents I need in film scoring situations. Ask me again in a few months. For now I await patiently on UPS..

dko22
05-26-2006, 06:27 PM
a year ago when I got GPO, it was clearly the best buy at its price (which was on offer at only £100). Now, it almost certainly still is. I don't think that (solo strings ensembles apart which virtually no-one apart from me seems masochistic enough to try and do anyway) it has major weaknesses. The thing is that more sophisticated libraries are getting ever closer in price. GPO is probably easy to use because of the relative lack of articulations but I feel, like dewdman42, that getting a sound that it really alive is not easy out of the box and I don't believe we should have to do a lot of post-processing, especially in a budget library. As a starter library to integrate into Finale/overture/Sibelius, I would probably still be happy to recommend it.

Bruce A. Richardson
05-26-2006, 09:49 PM
Bruce, you write for magazines yourself. Are you implying we should not believe the many positive reviews written about GigaStudio or the other fine products? :rolleyes:

There are excellent magazines with many great writers and to imply they may be less than unbiased is curious.

Everything I write should be taken as gospel. I cannot speak for anyone else.

dbudde
05-26-2006, 10:53 PM
Everything I write should be taken as gospel. I cannot speak for anyone else.

I knew there was a good reason I'm an atheist.

johnjewel
05-26-2006, 11:31 PM
I am hoping that the instruments , I already bought , will bare , fruitfull up-grades free , for me since I have the original orchestral libraries. Gary talks about up-grades for members , lets see , apicollo play 64th notes , and the flutes , ect... I see that I have to buy the string library , thats new too me ... ok fair is fair , let me know are therte up-dates available for my G.P.O. that I don`t know about , I suggest we all stay in this together...
:samurai: