Well apparently, Sony's new software "Generates Fully Composed Music"

[Cataclysm]

A friend showed me this article a couple of days ago, and I thought I'd showed it to you all, since you yourselves are composers. I think we might find some interesting views on this.


Sony has announced the release of its new Cinescore automated soundtrack creation software, described by the company as "a breakthrough in professional soundtrack creation, automatically generating fully composed, multigenre, production music perfect for movies, slideshows, commercials, and radio productions." The software retails for $249.00, with an academic version available for $145.00.

According to Sony, Cinescore software includes a broad selection of musical theme packs and styles that can be customized to match the mood and musical genres of a project. Users select a theme pack based on keywords and more, and the Cinescore engine "composes" music that can be shaped based on user input and selections to fit a scene. Sony says each Cinescore theme pack can automatically generate an unlimited number of custom arrangements and variations.

Features of the software include the capability to automatically generate music to fit a specific time, 20 fully customizable theme packs in multiple genres, 16-bit, 44.1 kHz audio, user-defined settings enabling users to create unlimited musical results, "hint" markers to control changes in tempo, mood and intensity, multiple ending types, over 300 sound effects and audio transitions, video scoring track and real-time preview window, audio sweetening track, audio track markers, CD audio extraction to add in additional musical material, volume and pan curves, and more.

Music libraries may be most impacted by the release of Cinescore - Sony markets Cinescore as a way to avoid "clunky blocks of prearranged music" and "complicated licensing fees to drain your budget." In addition, the music generated by Cinescore is advertised by Sony as "royalty-free" which may give the software an advantage over music libraries who charge sync fees or usage fees for individual pieces of music.

Filmmakers and television producers creating original music from musical building blocks including loops and pre-recorded musical elements has been happening for some time now. One of the most high-profile themes created in this way is the theme to the hit ABC show "Alias" which was created by producer J.J. Abrams entirely using "Reason" sample/loop playback software.

As filmmakers create custom music with Cinescore, it is expected that they will claim lucrative ASCAP and BMI writer and publisher performance royalties on the music they create, as they seek to enhance the financial return from films and exercise more control over the creation of score music for their films.
Here's the product http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/products/showproduct.asp?pid=1013

For me, personally, the thought of an elecronic robot making music astounds me. A robot could never create anything that is as interesting, or as wonderful as the human mind does. It appears to me as if musical knowledge wouldn't be needed anymore with stuff like this.

Would you consider yourself a composer if you were to make music with this kind of software?

[Skysaw]

and "complicated licensing fees to drain your budget."
Speaking as a potential drain, I am mortified!

[SyQuEsT]

So, I think we can use this now :

http://www.planet.nl/upload_mm/d/f/e/1939962098_1999995909_toyotarobot.jpg
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/robot_conductor1a.jpg

:)

[Cobalt Katze]

Would you consider yourself a composer if you were to make music with this kind of software?

I'd say audio scrapbookist. To think that anyone would even consider auto-generating music is baffling to me. Shall I auto-generate your camera movements? Your lighting? Your actors? :rolleyes:

[SeanHannifin]

For me, personally, the thought of an elecronic robot making music astounds me. A robot could never create anything that is as interesting, or as wonderful as the human mind does.

I wouldn't say that a robot could never create anything that is as interesting or as wonderful as the human mind does... however I believe it is extremely unlikely during our lifetimes. However, this product is nothing to worry about. After listening to the samples on the website, the music is not as nearly as complex or compelling as the music you'll hear right here in the listening room. It wouldn't be bad for background music, but on its own it doesn't sound like anything special. Little complexity, no thematic development, no colorful orchestration, and most importantly, no memorable melodies. It seems all you're doing with this software is choosing and putting together pre-existing themes and variations... boring! Then again, it is for soundtrack creation so its not as if they're really attempting to create anything that remarkable. It may be useful for non-composers who create videos and presentations a lot and want background music quickly and easily. EDIT: This software wouldn't be useful for film soundtracks, where one would most likely desire much more dynamic and thematic music.

I want the Mozart Automatic Symphony Composer... with the Beethoven and Dvorak add-ons...

[C J Pro]

I'd say audio scrapbookist. To think that anyone would even consider auto-generating music is baffling to me. Shall I auto-generate your camera movements? Your lighting? Your actors? :rolleyes:
Well, I did make a script in 3ds Max to do that stuff...

I have heard of computers generating Techno music themselves though...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=40368135

[Jeff Turner]

This really doesn't surprise. Just the logical extrention of technology.
V.C. = virtual composers

In today's world, money's always the bottom line. It's too bad.

Jeff

[dewdman42]

Interesting. One question I have is whether this tool could be used by someone like to me to use my OWN audio files that I create for each project, but use this program to assemble them. The fact that it can easily deal with timelines and cues, etc..might be useful somehow for that type of thing.

The idea that they are trying to sell here is not a new one. Apple already had their Soundtrack product which looks to be similar concept on the mac.

[JonFairhurst]

Cinescore doesn't auto-generate music from scratch. It needs compositions and themes and a variety of layers that can be added and removed to create the various moods.

This is another opportunity for composers. You can create Cinescore libraries and sell them to Sony, or directly to Cinescore owners.

Companies have been buying/selling stock music for years and years. Cinescore is simply the next evolution in royalty free music libraries.

DigitalJuice does a similar thing with layered music with StackTracxx:
http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/product_volumes.asp?cid=1&pvid=8

[Leaf]

I think some people can make a painting by splashing a bucket of paint onto a fan. Some people even buy those paintings for big bucks, which is kinda weird because they could have saved a lot of money if they just bought their own bucket of paint and a fan.

[dewdman42]

The way I look at it is this: Some of you that make a modest living composing music for industrial video, etc.. well, this won't help. And i'm truly sorry for you guys.

Actually the source libraries probably already cut into your business the most. This new tool will give a little more flexibility to those video producers that are happy with source libraries and can now have the same source libraries sound more polished, more in sync with the video perhaps..more coordinated as if it was composed for the picture...even though the actual musical themes, melodies, etc..will not be original...they will sound totally generic. I hate to sound like a cynic, but half the stuff I hear on Hollywood movies sounds totally generic and probably could have been replaced by a tool like this. Blame that on the lamo composers that took money to compose crapola like that. Now the bar is set lower

The truth is, there is a lot of video material out there that doesn't really need a custom composed score. Sad but true.

The stuff that does, well it still will...and I think for some years to come it will still require real people to compose it.

All that being said...yes..there is probably a niche for a while to produce content for this tool. Or perhaps using this tool to aid in the production of your own scores. From the sounds of it, it might be possible to create little clips which can easily be massed into whatever the time factors are for a film.

[C J Pro]

I guess I need to add a new line to my advertisement that I'm planning on putting in the paper...

Timber Wolf Tech Composing
Professional compositions in a
variety of styles such as Orchestral,
Jazz, Big Band, Techno, and more!
More importantly, I'm human and
know how to express emotion in
music!

There we go. New lines in red...

[Chinablu]

More importantly, I'm human and know how to express emotion

I often remind my girlfriend I'm human.

Just in case she forgets.

:)

[dabbler]

CD-Quality Sound
Cinescore software works in a true 16-bit, 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz audio quality space.


Professional? DVD works with 48Khz/24bit at the low end. Seems odd to choose a lower level if it is really a professional product.

R.

[C J Pro]

I often remind my girlfriend I'm human.

Just in case she forgets.

:)

Just don't remind her that humans make mistakes...

[Bruce A. Richardson]

I think some people can make a painting by splashing a bucket of paint onto a fan. Some people even buy those paintings for big bucks, which is kinda weird because they could have saved a lot of money if they just bought their own bucket of paint and a fan.

Well, except that you have to know what kind of paint to throw on what fan, and most importantly, when to stop.

Technique is really irrelevant. It's whether you create compelling art that is the main thing. That's the difference in someone throwing paint onto a canvas, and the work of a Jackson Pollock. The difference is the vision of the artist.

Cinescore is a tool, just like any other tool. It actually opens up opportunity for musicians to create the next-gen of needle drop libraries, as Jon says. Those are not jobs anyone is going to get, so the actual reality is that products like Cinescore increase the amount of available work and opportunity rather than decreasing it.

As for whether you're a "composer" if you use tools like these, so what? If it sounds good, it is good. That's the bottom line. If you can use a tool like this to take the drudgery out of creating a background, and spend your time creating really interesting additions and permutations of it, then how is this any different than any other tool? Nothing composes music for you.

[Robert M]

I have come across something similar, called X-Wheel of Fortune 3:

(first item on this page) http://www.hgf-synthesizer.de/

My first reaction was, "the software to write music without human intervention will soon be here."

But, as mentioned in a previous comment, when left to run on its own the results are fairly bland. The more I listened, the more it semmed to me that if there is a big rush in this direction, then eventually people will tire of the sounds and go back to music composed by people instead of machines.

I have friends in town who own a small coffeeshop. People have asked them if they resent the way Starbucks has "moved in" to the downtown scene and potentially stolen customers. You know what there response is?

"Not at all."

They see Starbucks as a way to introduce people to the culture of coffee, and believe that if they themselves strive to make the best espresso drinks in town, then when people find them and discover the difference, their enjoyment of a better cup will turn them into regular customers.

So, in that vein, I would say, "bring on the robot music composers!"

Get more people interested in more music as a regular part of their daily life, and then once they tire of the sameness of it all, they will feel more comfortable within the milieu of listening to music and ask for something more, something crafted by human sensibilities.

[etLux]

Okay.

I confess.

I'm a SONY beta tester.

Everything I posted here was done by Cinescore.



David
www.DavidSosnowski.com
.

[RichR]

etLux said:


I confess.

I'm a SONY beta tester.

Everything I posted here was done by Cinescore.


:D :D :D I knew it! I knew it! I knew It!:D :D :D

JUST KIDDING!!!

Actually, a product like this will probably be used by a lot of videographers for wedding DVD's. I have worked with some and they are busy every weekend for most of the year and hae to put together two or three weddings a week on DVD. This type of stuff has been around since the late 90's, though not as sophisticated as SONY's.

Rich

[Crossingsound]

Most Def, a product like this will probally do well in the home video crowd, and possibly some lower level production, which would use needle drop anyway. And it was mentioned before, just listen to the demos, they are not very impressive. I remember going to a final Cut 4 presentation, and the presenter said that their software will be putting music libraries and composers out of business, with the ability to drag in loops. I chuckled then too. :D

[musicpete]

You guys already pointed out everything worthwile of saying. I can't add to that.

However I listened to the demos on the Sony website. Now: Is it just me or does that sound like a cheapo synthesizer? I mean, those demos are really crappy. Bad sounding (acoustically, soundsample-wise) and banal to the degree of hilariousity (musically). Is this tool routed through the Adlib or MIDI-Synthesizer of an on-board Soundcard? I'd be embarrassed to put something like this on my website...

After hearing THAT, I stopped being afraid for the "real" composers out there. Give it a listen.... and laugh with me. :D

[Crossingsound]

I agree, the demos sounded Very Synthetic. I felt much better afterwards as well.

[Hermitage59]

Okay.

I confess.

I'm a SONY beta tester.

Everything I posted here was done by Cinescore.



David
www.DavidSosnowski.com
.

Heretic.

:D

[etLux]

Heretic.

:D

Alas, what can I say.

I could never figure out what all those little black
dots on the page meant, so...

David
www.DavidSosnowski.com
.

[ztutz]

The royalty-free stuff is actually generating work around my part of the world, heh. We've been doing lots of live sessions in the studio this spring to produce raw fodder for these truly banal collections.

As a composer, I think that the software-assisted path is inevitable, and not so bad, once you're used to it. When I am writing a musical bridge or transitional segment, on paper or on computer, I will move it around, play with it, and try it in various contexts. I still have to imagine it for impact, and to make the musical elements sound good in the first place! If I don't have to worry about calculating precise tempo from cue length, for example, so much the better...

Cinescore and Digital Juice are very primitive, Protools, SONAR, and its ilk are arcane, but most people here love JABB or GPO, right? And with these, you have to adapt your playing habits to what the software demands - CC lanes, "unnatural" pedalling, aftertouch for the brushes, etc. Software-assisted composition tools will only get better; the same revolution that started with desktop publishing is now washing over video production, and that means that a whole lot of people who aren't really producers want production music.

[tradivoro]

This is mostly geared to people making home movies, so it's not a big deal... And yes, the thing to investigate is how to provide Sony with new material... :)