Opinions on Notation programs wanted

[IGOR]

I do compose my music usually with a notation program and have licences for Sibelius, which I did use for the last three years, (Finale, not updated since 2001), and also the full version of Overture. Between 1988 and 2001 I did use exclusively Finale. After trying Sibelius, the ease of use and speed made me change to it. Overture is interesting, but the graphical aspect, which is also important to me, is not good enough at this time. Sibelius was fine until I did start to transfer or use the MIDI to make a production of my music, and especially with GPO it is not really practical. Now I did download the last demo of Finale, and after a few hours of trying out, I was quiet impressed by the qualities and improvement of the program.

What do other GPO - Notation Programs users do have for an opinion on this.

Sorry if this was already discussed.

Iwan

[Joseph Burrell]

Iwan, while respecting my code of secrecy, I would recommend waiting until Overture 4 is released before making any concrete desicions. I can't elaborate too much, but there is a lot going on and everyone that is involved is very excited about the direction the program is headed in.

[Styxx]

I would agree with Joseph. Even with my limited understanding of notational software Overture seems to be a good investment.
However, due to my limited abilities with notational software I have been forced to hire six monks to write my scores until such time Overture 4 is released. :D

[jesshmusic]

Finale is still the standard. I have been using it since version 3. They keep up on their updates, and the notation looks FABULOUS. Although some publishing houses are using Sibelius, most still use Finale. I have used Sibelius, and Overture, and when it comes to professional notation, I can't see using anything else.

The improvements made on Finale since 2000 are pretty dramatic. It may be more complex, but so is notation. I would say firmly... go with Finale. If for no other reason than most publishing houses today accept Finale files.

[Joseph Burrell]

blah blah blah Finale Finale Finale...

Finale this and Finale that...

Geeze. :D

[Jeff Turner]

I use 2 of the 3 mentioned products. They all do the same thing in different ways. Each has different plusses and minuses. Take JB's advice, try the Overture 4 demo when released. Use whatever gets you to your goal as fast and easy as possible.

I'm always surprised how passionate people get about their choice of notation programs. They're all just tools. Use the tool that gives you the best fit.

Jeff

[Joseph Burrell]

Absolutely Jeff. It is hard not to be passionate about a product that you love personally.

Very true words. The programs are tools. Use the one that best suites the job.

[IGOR]

Iwan, while respecting my code of secrecy, I would recommend waiting until Overture 4 is released before making any concrete desicions. I can't elaborate too much, but there is a lot going on and everyone that is involved is very excited about the direction the program is headed in.

Thanks Joseph,
I am nor in a hurry, so I will wait and I have the intention to update my Overture to version 4 anyway. I am aware that there is something going on with Overture, and also that the MIDI concept is IMHO the right way to go for a notation software. In 3.6.1 the reserves I would make, is as already mentioned, the graphics (screen and print) and also the user interface which is partly not very user friendly. But I do have to add, that I did only spend about two weeks working with it.
If you are involved in notation software, it may interest you that back in 1988 I was one of the very first Finale users. My book "Schule für Saxophon" http://www.iwanroth-sax.com/Text_E/Educational-E.htm is supposed to be the first music book of this kind ever made by an author himself with a computer software. It has been exposed at the Mac World expo in 1989, is still in print and has sold over 30'000 copies during the last 15 years.

iwan

[imagegod]

In general (and this is very generalized) people come at notation programs in two directions: Visually and sonically.

Visually, there are professional individuals who need (perhaps absolutely need) to create notation that is, again visually speaking, note perfect. And more power to them. This is what they want and some programs provide it better than others.

On the other hand, if your interest is creating a sonic landscape via notation, then in my opinion, Overture 3 (and per the above, the soon to arrive Overture 4) is the way to go. Especially where GPO is involved.

Moreoever, Don the owner/software writer is taking this program in a 'sonic' direction that is in my opinion beyond anything that exists in the world today. I've said this before about Overture in different ways, so you may want to search what I've posted re: overture. You may also want to visit the Geniesoft website.

Good luck and Thanks!

[imagegod]

Also, I'll have to disagree with all due respect to Mr. Turner. Of course software is a tool...but it's also much more than that. A hammer is always going to be a hammer and its functionality is impacted not one whit if other people decide to use the same brand hammer.

Software, on the other hand, is a living, evolving document. And as it changes, so hopefully does it continuously improve (unlike said hammer). Choosing the right software is like voting for the best candidate (or best future evolutionary path, if you will). By choosing overture, by knowing how close to consumer demand Don hews his vision and his software, I'm choosing not only what I consider to be the better software, but also the better evolutionary path.

Moreover, when enough people choose said path, so do we make it more likely that this software will continue to evolve (again, very much unlike said hammer).

Thus, this is not just about choosing a tool, but choosing a future musical path...and making this vision, this path more likely to be sustained. :D

As this is true for GPO (and all GPO cheerleaders), so in my opinion is it true for Overture.

[StrangeCat]

What do other GPO - Notation Programs users do have for an opinion on this.

Sorry if this was already discussed.

Iwan[/QUOTE]

I am sure it's been discussed in every forum that has to do with music production and composition...but...
what do you mean you didn't like Sibelius anymore after you started to use midi for your production. Are you talking about loading midi files into a sequencer or into Sibelius. Sibelius3 does everything that can be done on paper for all styles of music, it works very well for scoring and arranging. It also performs the music not just plays it, and has lot's of nifty plugins as well.
I am talking from my opinion here, I don't know anything about any other composition program and wouldn't need to since Sibelius 3 does everything like on paper already.

[IGOR]

I agree with you on this:

Sibelius3 does everything that can be done on paper for all styles of music, it works very well for scoring and arranging. It also performs the music not just plays it, and has lot's of nifty plugins as well..
But not on this:

what do you mean you didn't like Sibelius anymore after you started to use midi for your production. Are you talking about loading midi files into a sequencer or into Sibelius.
1. Sibelius has a defect MIDI translation. For more complicated music the work to clean up Sibelius MIDI files can be very time consuming. I had some contact with sibelius people and they did study some of my files. They also had to admit of the problems. These are probably not occuring if you write more straight forward music.

2. Sibelius is unable to change MIDI channel on the same stave and one can not choose different channels for different voices. I mean, having 100 staves in a score and pushing them one on top of the other is no fun....

3. Three years ago I did already suggest to the Sibelius people to add an Matrix window. They pretended that it is not possible and that there software is primarely a notation software and not a sequencer. Don, the writer of Overture has proven that it is possible. As far as I know, he writes the program all alone, so why can a company such as Sibelius not achieve those things. If Overture can offer a better interface and better graphics, he will take over, I think....

iwan

EDIT: I just want to add this: Observing the big amont of posts about notation programs in sample forums, it is sure that there are many users of notation software who are not copyists or engravers (I am part of those....), so what we need is a software with which we can write our music in and then manipulate it until we have a first rate recording with good sounds. If you put a matrix window and VST into Sibelius, you've got it. And tell me now, why it should be TECHNICALY impossible to do this?

[Jeff Turner]

Imagegod, we have to agree to disagree on this one. Each notation software software will improve mainly because of competition in the marketplace. This reality of free enterprise is provides product improvements for the consumer. Each manufacturer has a vision for their product. But the main reason they work so hard to improve their product is to keep up with the competition.

Each of the notation products mentioned are great products. But I don't use one over another because of a corporate vision. I use what works for me. It would be presumptuous of me to tell people to use the software I have, simply because I'm happy with it. Everyone has different needs and preferences. Trying out demos is the only way to get a feel for a program.

In the end, notation is just a musical language. Which notation software is used doesn't matter. It's just a method of communicating with a computer or musicians to bring a performance to life.

My $.02
Jeff

[imagegod]

Each notation software software will improve mainly because of competition in the marketplace. But the main reason they work so hard to improve their product is to keep up with the competition.

And I agree...completely. However, my perspective implies that individuals can help good companies maximize their ability to compete by choosing the best company (however defined/perceived), and by making that choice clear to others. Just as I have done and will continue to do with GPO!

Are you free not to help others choose? But of course. I revel in that freedom. In fact, I celebrate it! :)

Thanks!

[Jeff Turner]

Peace :)

[IGOR]

Thanks for all this valuable opinions!
If there are more out there who would like a (good) notation program with more sequencing features, as VST, Matrix, Object oriented controller programming, please do let it know. This is the only way we may get such a software.
Iwan