Can't Get TBO or 7CG to load or play...

[alanb]

Hi all... more GigaProbs, I'm afraid...

I keep getting the [unknown system error] whenever I try to load my shiny new TBO/7CG libraries.

Based upon what I've seen in the NSS archives, I believe that this means I've run out of memory, although I'm not sure how that can be... I can still load GigaPiano II, but that's not the point now, is it?

Here are some stats (suggested changes are welcome), followed by the msg32/Gstudio numbers that I see as things go awry...

-----------------------

GS3 3.12
Windows XP
Dual core Pentium
Separate bootable drive with only Cubase and GS3 on it
All samples on separate internal HD

2GB RAM
Max. Polyphony = 5,863
Polyphony = 3,014 (12 ---> 3,014 ---> 5,863)
25% of memory for streaming samples
75% of memory for loading instruments

Total memory avail. for instrument loading = 1,534 Mb
Tested memory available for instrument loading = 1,011 Mb (65%)
Memory Preset 3

Generally speaking, GS3 works now, for the most part...

-----------------------

Boot up computer:
msg32.exe = 8,520

* * *

Open Configuration Manager to get the above memory numbers, then close Configuration Manager:
msg32.exe = 9,600

-----------------------

Launch GS3, but don't do anything else:
msg32.exe = 434,680 (what's using up all that memory?)
GStudio.exe = 59,912

-----------------------

Try loading TBO 4.gsi:
msg32.exe slowly increases... increases... increases...
...until it hits about 512,000...
...then I get the [unknown system error]...
...msg32.exe drops right down to 434,836, and
GStudio.exe is at 94,972
I was loading "3 of 17" at the time.

I click "OK" on the error window, to see if it will continue to load. The same thing happens all over again...

msg32.exe slowly increases... increases... increases...
...until it hits about 512,000...
...then I get the [unknown system error]...
...msg32.exe drops right down to 434,836
This happens on "4 of 17" and "5 of 17"

I gave up.

On earlier attempts, I just kept clicking "OK," but when I was finished the only playable key was the topmost key on the audition keyboard. Swell...


-----------------------

Closed GS3:
msg32.exe drops down to 9,796


-----------------------

Re-launched GS3:
msg32.exe = 434,700 (tiny bit higher than last time)
GStudio.exe = 59,188 (tiny bit lower than last time)

-----------------------

Try to load 7CG 4.gsi:

msg32.exe slowly increases... increases... increases...
...until it hits about 542,000... (slightly higher than TBO)
... then suddenly drops down to about 532,000...
...then I get the [unknown system error]...
...msg32.exe drops right down to 434,736 (slightly lower than last time)

I pressed "OK" on the error window to see if it would continue loading. The error window disappeared, but nothing else happened.

-----------------------

Tried to re-load 7CG 4.gsi:

Same basic thing happened...

msg32.exe made it up to about 549,000, then dipped slightly, then I got the [unknown system error]...

Again, I pressed "OK" on the error window to see if it would continue loading. The error window disappeared, but nothing else happened.

I re-gave up.

-----------------------

INTERESTINGLY, all of my baseline and error numbers for msg32.exe and GStudio.exe were different, yesterday, when I tried to load TBO 4 PUPDREL Conv.Res.gsi . . .

Yesterday, I got the error each time msg32.exe hit a non-staggering 345,292... then dropped down to 206,252 when I unloaded whatever I had loaded but couldn't use...

Curiously though, the first error appeared on "3 of 17" there, as well.

Another bit of weirdness, I could never load TBO yesterday but I was able to load one 7CG patch (I forget which).

It sounded as good as everyone here said that it would... for about twenty-five notes. Then notes started disappearing, getting cut off, etc.

msg32.exe was nowhere near the crash zone, and the memory/CPU meters looked just fine.

um.... heh?????

-----------------------

ALSO INTERESTINGLY, I ran the Memory test twice yesterday, once before trying to load anything, and once after trying unsuccessfully to load both pianos and then rebooting.

The first time I ran the memtest, I had 72% available... the next time I only had 65%, although I hadn;t changed anything in GS3. I still have 65% which, I believe, is "normal, right?

-----------------------

So... can anyone think of what might be going on here?

Thanks for looking!!

Bigger thanks if you can help me out!!!!! :(

[rjdekker]

Hi Alan,

Weird problem. It certainly seems you have enough available memory for loading the TBO/7CG.

Unfortunately, I don't have a solution, but just some suggestions to check out:

First of all, I'm curious what happens if you directly load an instrument from the TBO/7CG.gig file instead of using the .gsi. I also noticed that these .gsi files load 17 instruments, which takes a long time and they are not even used all at once.

Second, if I remember correctly, the fully loaded TBO/7CG should give a msg32.exe memory reading of somewhere between 600 and 700 Mb. It seems you're stuck at 550 Mb max. Is it possible to load multiple instruments from other non-TBO/7CG libraries and go over ~700 Mb (or maybe 1 Gb) without any errors?

Finally, did you change the location of the TBO/7CG files compared to how they are ordered in the 7CG directory on the DVDs?

I hope it will eventually work out for you because the 7CG is really great!

Best wishes, Rob

[Worra]

Do a search for "memory management" in the Gigastudio forum here. That should give you the info needed.
It seems that GS3 doesn't handle these big files well with the default settings. After doing the tweaking, everything should work great.

[alanb]

Hi Worra,

Do a search for "memory management" in the Gigastudio forum here. That should give you the info needed.
It seems that GS3 doesn't handle these big files well with the default settings. After doing the tweaking, everything should work great.
One of the first threads I looked at (I had actually read it before, but wasn't sure whether its contents applied to me) contained three different "tweaking" references:

Ok, here you go:

As said, for some reason it's impossible to load the included .gsi files on some GS3 installations. Tascam has been contaced and we are looking into what might be causing this.
You can load the different instruments and save your own .gsi. It's takes a while, not long, maybe 10 minutes or so. Here's how it's done:

Here’s a explanation over what the different .gsi files should have:
(Please clear all instruments before building the next gsi)


TBO.gsi
Load instrument “TBO”

TBO PU Conv PD + Res.gsi
Load “TBO No PD No Rel” and stack “TBO Pedal Down” and “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO PUPD Conv Res.gsi
Load “TBO No Rel” and stack “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO PUPDREL Conv Res.gsi
Load “TBO” and stack “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO 1.gsi
Load instrument “TBO 1”

TBO 1 PU Conv PD + Res.gsi
Load “TBO 1 No PD No Rel” and stack “TBO Pedal Down” and “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO 1 PUPD Conv Res.gsi
Load “TBO 1 No Rel” and stack “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO 1 PUPDREL Conv Res.gsi
Load “TBO 1” and stack “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO 2.gsi
Load instrument “TBO 2”

TBO 2 PU Conv PD + Res.gsi
Load “TBO 2 No PD No Rel” and stack “TBO Pedal Down” and “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO 2 PUPD Conv Res.gsi
Load “TBO 2 No Rel” and stack “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO 2 PUPDREL Conv Res.gsi
Load “TBO 2” and stack “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO 3.gsi
Load instrument “TBO 3”

TBO 3 PU Conv PD + Res.gsi
Load “TBO 3 No PD No Rel” and stack “TBO Pedal Down” and “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO 3 PUPD Conv Res.gsi
Load “TBO 3 No Rel” and stack “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO 3 PUPDREL Conv Res.gsi
Load “TBO 3” and stack “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO 4.gsi
Load instrument “TBO 4”

TBO 4 PU Conv PD + Res.gsi
Load “TBO 4 No PD No Rel” and stack “TBO Pedal Down” and “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO 4 PUPD Conv Res.gsi
Load “TBO 4 No Rel” and stack “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

TBO 4 PUPDREL Conv Res.gsi
Load “TBO 4” and stack “TBO Instrument Res” on the same MIDI channel

. . . and . . .

Ok, I want you to try this:
(These fixes only apply to GS3 users!)

1. Download the followiing .rar files: TBO Fix (http://www.sampletekk.com/TBOupd/TBOupd051124.rar)
2. Unpack the .rar file.
3 Replace the files in your TBO folder with the ones that you just unpacked (You might want to take a copy of the .gsi files first. If these new ones work fine, you can delete them).

Even if you don't have any problems loading TBO, you should use these new files. Most of the .gsi files loaded a lot of unmapped instruments so these new gsi are faster loading and uses less memory

Ok, let me know how this works!

Are either of these things the info that I need?

The general sense of that thread was that you were waiting to hear back from TASCAM as to why GS3 was choking on the big files -- did anything ever come from that?

Also in that thread, one person seemed to have gotten things to work:

Based upon a hint in the Gigastudio Forum I read the "sticky" memory thread on the VSL forum and tweaked my registry memory settings located @ HKLM->System->CurentControlSet->Control->Session Manager->Memory Management as follows (only changed the PagedPoolQota and PagedPoolSize to 4000000 Hex):

I'm familiar with that method of registry-tweaking. I'm also familiar with the "Memory and XP" thead over at the VSL Forum... but, IIRC, the basic gist there is that I have to keep trying different settings at random until I accidentally happen upon something that works.

So, which of these three things should I be doing next -- or is it something completely different that I should be doing?

Thanks,

[Worra]

Hi Worra,




So, which of these three things should I be doing next -- or is it something completely different that I should be doing?

Thanks,

Try this one: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39507

[alanb]

Try this one: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39507
Okay, let's see... [fingers crossed]...

The first four pages are mostly gripes (and boy, do I feel their pain!!), and a few references to the trial-and-error tweaking (using Mattias' tool) that I know about from the VSL Forum discussion.

Interestingly, there are people who talk about only getting Tested Memory of 60-62% after trying lots of tweaking, while I can already get 65% using the Presets.

At the bottom of page 5, I see this:

Hello, I don't know if someone had already posted it but I think it's important. It's useful in order to use ALL the RAM on your PC before using the swap file (very slow).

1) START, open regedit and go: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Session Manager\Memory Management
2) Set: DisablePagingExecutive to 1 (default is 0)


Sorryif you knew it already.

Is that what you are referring to? It's the only thing I can see here that wasn't mentioned in the thread that I quoted (and quoted and quoted) from earlier in this thread.

More thanks,

[alanb]

Please, Worra... I know that you're busy with the big sale and all, but don't forget about me in the process...


Is that what you are referring to? It's the only thing I can see here that wasn't mentioned in the thread that I quoted (and quoted and quoted) from earlier in this thread.

More thanks,
I've identified four different "suggestions" that I've seen in two multi-page theads:

(1) rebuilding the .gsi files,

(2) installing a "TBO Fix" file

(3) PianoMan's registry tweak

(4) assigning random values using Mattias' memory tool...

It was tough enough getting Giga to be as (relatively) stable as it is today, so I don't want to make unnecessary changes that might throw off whatever delicate balance I've managed to achieve.

So please, did you have a particular plan of action in mind when you directed me to the "memory management" threads, or did you just mean that I should try any old thing that anyone tried in any of those threads?

And did you ever get any feedback from TASCAM about why Giga chokes on the TBO/7CG files?

Thanks yet again,

[alanb]

ps -- The Swedish hits keep on coming!! I've been listening to Harvester / International Harvester / Pärson Sound a lot this week, and I remembered a CD I have by Olov Johansson entitled "Storsvarten (The Big Black One)" ...

How funny... TBBO?... Must be a hybrid piano...

I can just imagine what *that* would do to Giga..... :cool:

[alanb]

[ . . . help . . . ]

[Worra]

[ . . . help . . . ]






I know that GS3 had some problems adressing RAM when using these extreme big samples.
First, see to that you have the latest build.
Then, open the memory management program in your GS3 folder. (Can't remember the exact name, I'm on an other PC), and choose the setting best suited to your amount of RAM.
That should do it.

[alanb]

Hey Rob,

First of all, I'm curious what happens if you directly load an instrument from the TBO/7CG.gig file instead of using the .gsi. I also noticed that these .gsi files load 17 instruments, which takes a long time and they are not even used all at once.
Yes, I can load individual .gig files.

Curiouser still, the TBO3 and TBO4 .gsi files that I tried loading (both of the "PUPDEL+Conv+" variety) only began to load 16 instruments today, instead of the 17 I saw the last time it tried to load TBO. One of the TBO1 files that I tried to load only got to 2 of *14* before error-ing.

'the hell?

I was able to load 7CG today, but it did not sound at all like it did the last time it loaded and played nicely for about twenty notes. Today it sounded dull and muffled, like the recording mic had been wrapped in a towel or something...


Second, if I remember correctly, the fully loaded TBO/7CG should give a msg32.exe memory reading of somewhere between 600 and 700 Mb. It seems you're stuck at 550 Mb max. Is it possible to load multiple instruments from other non-TBO/7CG libraries and go over ~700 Mb (or maybe 1 Gb) without any errors?
Today I started stacking random sounds to see how far I could get without getting error messages.

IIRC, I got one "unknown system error... would you like to continue"-type message early on, at about 550Mb. I canceled that one sound and kept loading other random sounds. I got up to about 750Mb before seeing another such error message. I was in the high 800s, and on my fifth or sixth error message before I finally blue-screened (memory dump).

Each time I added a new sound I played a bit on the keyboard. Got some very cool sounds, I must say... The only real problem was maxing out the CPU if I played too many notes at once. Still, I got more loaded than I should (theoretically) need for TBO or 7CG.

There were occasions where adding new sounds didn't increase my msg32.exe value, but GStudio.exe went up instead.

Incidentally, I changed my Memory Preset for 3 to 4 . . . now my "tested memory available" went from 65% of 2Gb to 66%. Hotcha!! Still, TBO .gsi files won't load, and 7CG sounded very crappy... not at all like it sounded the other day, when it loaded and played wonderfully for about twenty notes and then started sputtering, dropping notes, etc.

--------------------------------------

Could the "Polyphony" settings in the GS3 Configuration Manager have anything to do with anything? The manual decribes how to changes values, but it doens't really explain what it's real-world effect is.

--------------------------------------


:mad: :( :confused: :mad: :( :confused: :mad: :( :confused:

[Tommo]

Hi,

I read through your troubles with a great amount of empathy. I had the extact same problem about 6 months ago when loading large sample libraries (Post pianos, Prominy).

I'm afraid, the only 'solution' i came up with was to revert back to configuration 1 (XP default) in the memory management utility. Rubbish solution I know, but at least it will load up (if 850Mb RAM or so is even enough!)

I switched to Kontakt 2 for this exact reason. Hopefully, the Gigastudio boys will get round to releasing GVI, (not really Spring any more is it?) and we won't have to bother with all this nonsense any more. The GS3 engine is still the most efficient around, and can not be beat for sample streaming, but its no use if the libraries don't load in the first place.

I wish you luck in finding a better solution.

[alanb]

Well, I got it to work... I finally got both TBO and 7CG to load and play!!

[whew]

I tried a slew of different number combinations using Mattias' tool (bless you for that, Mattias), and was finally able to load TBO/7CG after using one of the combinations listed on his web site:

http://www.musikbanken.se/Gigastudio/thetweak.htm

What's odd is that when I run the Memory Test in the GS3 Configuration Manager, my 2GB installed memory yields the same 66% value for "Tested Memory" that I got before applying "the tweak."

Yet, somehow, I can load the libraries now, whereas I couldn't before.

Um... okay, i guess... ;)

I was able to load random stacked sounds until finally crashing at roughly msg32.exe = 929MB (with a few non-crashing "unknown system errors" occurring at various values on the way up, that I was able to "cancel" out of and continue loading other sounds).

I wonder whether it's worth trying other number configurations to see if I can push things closer to the 1100MB limit mentioned on Mattias' web page -- any ideas, anyone?

Okay... in the meantime, it's time to play!!

[Worra]

Well, I got it to work... I finally got both TBO and 7CG to load and play!!

[whew]

I tried a slew of different number combinations using Mattias' tool (bless you for that, Mattias), and was finally able to load TBO/7CG after using one of the combinations listed on his web site:

http://www.musikbanken.se/Gigastudio/thetweak.htm

What's odd is that when I run the Memory Test in the GS3 Configuration Manager, my 2GB installed memory yields the same 66% value for "Tested Memory" that I got before applying "the tweak."

Yet, somehow, I can load the libraries now, whereas I couldn't before.

Um... okay, i guess... ;)

I was able to load random stacked sounds until finally crashing at roughly msg32.exe = 929MB (with a few non-crashing "unknown system errors" occurring at various values on the way up, that I was able to "cancel" out of and continue loading other sounds).

I wonder whether it's worth trying other number configurations to see if I can push things closer to the 1100MB limit mentioned on Mattias' web page -- any ideas, anyone?

Okay... in the meantime, it's time to play!!

Alan - This is great! Let me know how you like the pianos!!!