Overture 3.5

[docdestructo62]

Before my new laptop came, I figured out how to notate using Overture 3.5 and how to set up the midi instruments on my old slow computer. Now I have my laptop, I have loaded GPO and would like to play my Overture files using GPO. In the help manual, I found a GPO command but I can't find it in Overture. If I could find this command, maybe I could set up the instrument sounds I would like to use?

[southportJim]

Before my new laptop came, I figured out how to notate using Overture 3.5 and how to set up the midi instruments on my old slow computer. Now I have my laptop, I have loaded GPO and would like to play my Overture files using GPO. In the help manual, I found a GPO command but I can't find it in Overture. If I could find this command, maybe I could set up the instrument sounds I would like to use?

Doc,

Startup "GPO Studio" (NOT the GPO standalone) and load some instruments in the slots. Then crank up Overture, setup a score, and then open the "Tracks Window". You should be able to do a "pull-down" in the "Device" column to select your GPO Studio player. The "Channel" column corresponds to the "slot" in GPO Studio, so do a pull-down there to select the instrument you want for that track. Don't bother with the "Patch" name, just select the appropriate channel in the "Chn" column.

There are some Overture/GPO tutorials here=>
http://www.lostandlonging.com/OvertureTutorialFiles/Overture%20Tutorial2.htm

I don't think the "basic" tutorial is on that page yet, but some of the others have screenshots of what I just described...all courtesy of a certain Mr. J. Burrell, I believe.

have fun,
;-)

[docdestructo62]

I loaded up the instruments, then opened my score in overture. I assigned the instruments and the channels and then hit play. No sound. I turned up the mod wheel on each instrument. Still no sound. What next?

[southportJim]

I loaded up the instruments, then opened my score in overture. I assigned the instruments and the channels and then hit play. No sound. I turned up the mod wheel on each instrument. Still no sound. What next?

Hmmmm...what are we missing here?

1) You DO see "GPO Player 1" in the Tracks window in Overture, right?

2) When you use your mouse to press a key on the Kontakt player do you hear the instrument (i.e just playing the instrument directly without going thru Overture)?

jim

[docdestructo62]

Hmmmm...what are we missing here?

1) You DO see "GPO Player 1" in the Tracks window in Overture, right?

2) When you use your mouse to press a key on the Kontakt player do you hear the instrument (i.e just playing the instrument directly without going thru Overture)?

jim

Yes and yes.

[southportJim]

Yes and yes.

Doc,
I'm at a loss as to what is wrong...but don't let that discourage you, because I'm pretty new to this myself. I'm probably missing something very obvious...


ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY IDEAS HOW TO TROUBLESHOOT THIS?

J.B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You awake yet, man?????????

;-)

[AtmosMan]

I am an Overture 4 user, but did use Ove. 3 with GPO Studio for a time. Let's see...

You can hear sound when you press a key on the Kontakt player. That means your soundcard is working properly with Kontakt. In GPO studio check to make sure that you are using an ASIO driver with your soundcard. I guess a good way to make sure that is is not a routing problem is to download this test (either one):

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23970


Open the GPO studio file first, then open Overture, and press play. If you can hear noise, then you probably missed something in setting up GPO Studio and Overture 3.5 to work together. If you can't hear any noise it could mean your soundcard isn't configured properly, or that Overture isn't set to playback GPO sounds.

Although I never had this problem, set up a new score in Overture with a staff of any instrument you want, and route it to a GPO studio slot. Enter a few notes. Then place a dynamic marking attached to the first note. Double click it, and change the default playback MIDI control to 'modulation' and see if that helps.

Also, check Overture's playback preferences (can't remember where it is in 3.5) to make sure that General MIDI is not over-riding anything.

Hope this helps,

-Brian

[docdestructo62]

O.K. I got home and away from students knocking on my office door (I tried not to cry when they came for their lessons). I'm not obsessed, really. With a cup of herbal tea to fortify me, I sat down and figured out that the piano sound was working because the load sound set command under GPO (it magically appeared when I loaded kontakt) had only a piano. The score has a piano, harp, and French horn. After I loaded a sound set that had full orchestra with harp with the load sound set command under GPO (in overture) I got a harp sound. I've been fooling around with the tracks window and have found all the instruments i need if i use a midi grand piano and gpo harp and horn. Only the harp sound comes out. There are 8 players in GPO but each voice has 4 slots. Why do I have to load a full sound set? Why can't I just load each instrument? What do I do with each of the four slots under each player? Do I just worry about the first slot of each? My score has 4 tracks: Piano, 2 harps (I think) and a horn. I can't be sure which player lines up with which track. Using kontakt, which instrument should I load in which of the 8 players? If there are 4 slots in each in overture, why can I only load 1 instrument per player? Do I even need to use kontakt? After I load the sound sets from overture, what difference does it make? I am failing to see the connection between what I do in kontakt and what it means in overture. I'll stop now. Doc

[Joseph Burrell]

The problem is a Creative Soundcard driver. You need to change the sample rate in GPO Studio's audio setup from 44.1 to 48.

[docdestructo62]

The problem is a Creative Soundcard driver. You need to change the sample rate in GPO Studio's audio setup from 44.1 to 48.

I'm not quite sure how to do that. The harp sounds are nice, though. Also, I noticed that all the channels are set to channel 1. When I change any of the tracks to different channels, they stop making sound. Why is channel 1 a harp when I have a piano loaded into player 1 in kontakt? I have harps loaded in players 2 and 3 in kontakt, and a solo horn in the 4th player. Why is only channel 1 connected to sound? Why is it a harp? What does this have to do with the sample rate?

[docdestructo62]

I am an Overture 4 user, but did use Ove. 3 with GPO Studio for a time. Let's see...

You can hear sound when you press a key on the Kontakt player. That means your soundcard is working properly with Kontakt. In GPO studio check to make sure that you are using an ASIO driver with your soundcard. I guess a good way to make sure that is is not a routing problem is to download this test (either one):

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23970


Open the GPO studio file first, then open Overture, and press play. If you can hear noise, then you probably missed something in setting up GPO Studio and Overture 3.5 to work together. If you can't hear any noise it could mean your soundcard isn't configured properly, or that Overture isn't set to playback GPO sounds.

Although I never had this problem, set up a new score in Overture with a staff of any instrument you want, and route it to a GPO studio slot. Enter a few notes. Then place a dynamic marking attached to the first note. Double click it, and change the default playback MIDI control to 'modulation' and see if that helps.

Also, check Overture's playback preferences (can't remember where it is in 3.5) to make sure that General MIDI is not over-riding anything.

Hope this helps,

-Brian

I understood almost nothing of this. I don't know how to make sure I have an ASIO driver. I don't know how to run the test no matter how many times I read it. I don't know how to route a staff to a GPO slot. I put a dynamic on the horn part, clicked modulation (it was 90) and then played it. It still sounds like a harp.

[southportJim]

I don't know how to route a staff to a GPO slot. I put a dynamic on the horn part, clicked modulation (it was 90) and then played it. It still sounds like a harp.

Doc,
I know it's frustrating, but between us all, we'll get there. If you can hear GPO's harp then we are getting somewhere already. I think you're getting caught up in some of the "advanced" features (such as using multiple voices within a track)...let's concentrate on basic functionality to start with.

I've still got about an hour left here with not much to do, waiting on users to leave so I can start backups...so I've got time to walk thru some steps if you have access to the internet on that PC and have the time to try this right now.

Want to give it a shot?
jim

[docdestructo62]

Jim, thanks for your kindness. You probably have left, already. I finally loaded the entire orchestra in kontakt and the entire orchestra from a template in overture 3.5. Now I don't have a harp, but I have the other sounds (I had to choose between a piano or a harp). I just copied and pasted the sounds from my 4 track score to the full orchestra score. All the sounds seem to work when I use templates in both programs. I will wait until I can afford finale 2006 to try setting up scores that have only the instruments I want. If I could magically make a template for both kontakt and overture that had piano, harp on 2 tracks, and horn, i'd be set! When I bought this, I was envisioning setting up my score in overture with only the instruments I wanted (i use various combinations) and then telling it to play using GPO sounds. I had no idea what I was getting into.

I also am working on a score that has claves, low drum, and temple blocks along with brass. I can't figure out how to get the percussion sounds I need, yet.

[southportJim]

Doc,
I gotta get outta here, so can't walk thru anything now. Since you've managed to hear the GPO harp, I think there may be some confusion in the terminology we're using (players, slots, channels, voices, templates, instrument sets, etc.). So let's do some very basic stuff...no templates, no multiple instrument sets, no multiple voices within a single track...just one track, with one voice, and several instruments loaded into ONLY ONE instance of a Kontakt player (GPO Player 1).

Try the following:
In your browser, go to=> http://www.lostandlonging.com/OvertureTutorialFiles/Tutorial%20HTML/VoicesTutorial/VoicesTutorialIndex.htm then choose "Setting Up The Example" from the pull down at the top.

Shut down Overture and crank up GPO Studio. Click on GPO Player 1 to open up an instance of the Kontakt player. This is the ONLY Kontakt player you will open (in other words, don't open Player 2, 3, etc.)

Load several instruments as shown in the first six steps under "Setting Up The Example", but load them up with any instrument you want...use something with a wide range like Harp , Harpsichord, Piano Light, etc. Note that you're dealing ONLY with GPO Player 1. When finished you have several instruments loaded into the "slots" or "channels" within Player 1. Just like shown in the screenshots.

Crank up Overture and start a new score (not the ones you have been working on previously...we're just trying to make some noise here). Put one track on the new score, treble clef...enter some notes in the track, maybe a scale moving from "middle c" up an octave and back down. Just to make sure, add a dynamic, right-click on it to make sure it is set to "Play" and set to "Modulation"...also make sure it's attached to a note in the track (little dotted line when you move it with the mouse).

Open the Tracks window, select the first track and assign it to GPO Player 1, channel 1. Don't get off into the business about multiple voices per track that is shown in the tutorial, that's for later (i.e. don't go past Step 11 in the tutorial...that's the "multi-voice per track stuff" and we don't care about that yet).

Make sure the mod wheel is turned up on the Kontakt Player and hit Play in Overture. You should hear the instrument loaded into "slot 1" of GPO Player 1. If you change the channel in the Tracks window for track 1 to channel 2, then you should a different instrument (should still be GPO Player1, though).

If this doesn't work, then try some of the troubleshooting tips here that deal with midi setup, activity lights, etc. Look at the 2nd entry in the thread for specifics=> http://geniesoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1175

good luck and don't give up...we'll get you there. It took me several hours to get my first sound out and I was ready to pull my hair out. But the folks around here are very helpful, so eventually I got it working...you will, too.
;-)
cheers,
jim

[southportJim]

Doc,

Apparently we were both writing at the same time. I just read your last post. Glad to hear that you are getting sounds now.

If I understand you, I'm pretty sure you can do EXACTLY what you want by making your own Overture templates and setting up your own GPO template files...and it's even easier with Overture 4. I think there's just a learning curve here that you must get past first.

Take the time to work thru the tutorials at=> http://www.lostandlonging.com/OvertureTutorialFiles/Overture%20Tutorial2.htm even the ones that don't seem applicable at first. That';s how I got started.

By the way, there's a percussion tutorial out there, too. That's a "must" becuase it works a little differently than general midi (easy once you get it, but it took me a while).

good luck,
jim

[docdestructo62]

I got all my instruments working. I noticed that playback tempo was very uneven. One of the reasons I bought this was to keep my accompanists (who must have irregular heart beats) on a steady tempo. Overture 3.5 also must have an irregular heartbeat or something. It was terrible. I don't see how I can use it.


By the way, there's a percussion tutorial out there, too. That's a "must" becuase it works a little differently than general midi (easy once you get it, but it took me a while).


I will have to read this when I have more patience. When I moved notes around in the percussion toys voices, they stopped making noise even when I put them back where they were originally. I had to re-enter the pitches from scratch if I missed. I couldn't edit as is possible with the other instruments. Different pitches are supposed to equal different instruments and it works on the kontakt keyboard but much more temperamental in overture. The tempo problems really started when I got the instrument toys working.

[docdestructo62]

I got all my instruments working. I noticed that playback tempo was very uneven. One of the reasons I bought this was to keep my accompanists (who must have irregular heart beats) on a steady tempo. Overture 3.5 also must have an irregular heartbeat or something. It was terrible. I don't see how I can use it. When I moved notes around in the percussion toys voices, they stopped making noise even when I put them back where they were originally. I had to re-enter the pitches from scratch if I missed. I couldn't edit as is possible with the other instruments. Different pitches are supposed to equal different instruments and it works on the kontakt keyboard but much more temperamental in overture. The tempo problems really started when I got the instrument toys working.

Does anybody have a solution to this problem?

[docdestructo62]

Does anybody have a solution to this problem?

Hello? Anybody here?

[docdestructo62]

Hello? Anybody here?

Jim, are you there?

[southportJim]

Jim, are you there?

Doc,
Yes...sorry, I was logged in but off dealing with email.

I'm not sure what else to try. Let's try to follow up on what Joseph Burrell said about your soundcard driver. I'll look at home (I'm at work now), to see how to check what kind of driver you are using and how to change your sample rate. This is stuff I get working once and then forget about, so I'm a little fuzzy on it.

Just for info to others who might be able to help more, please post some basic info on your system (CPU speed, RAM, sound card make & model, etc.)

Don't give up, man...we'll get it working.

Jim

[southportJim]

Doc,

In case you haven't found it yet, you can check your drivers and sample rate for GPO Studio from the Settings menu...

=> Settings Menu
===> Audio Drivers (to choose among what you have installed)
===> Preferences (to choose Sample Rate)

;-)
jim

[Joseph Burrell]

This has to be soundcard/computer specific as there are many people that continue to use 3.5 without problem.

When I get home I can give you specifics about how to check your soundcard driver in GPO Studio, but its one of the options right there on the interface.

[docdestructo62]

When I get home, I'll check. I have all the instruments working fine, now, so you've answered my original question. I know how to assign the instruments in both programs. The tempo problems only happened after I added percussion. It also happened here at work where I am using finale 2006 on my old pc. I had a mendelssohn choral accompaniment--arpeggios on a grand piano. The tempo was steady until I added pedaling midi data. Suddenly it was as though my aunt gertrude (irregular heartbeat again) was playing--totally unsteady. A related question, how do i work with human playback to get it not to do anything? How do I copy pedaling data without going back into the midi tool? How do I get it to play at a steady tempo? As I learn this stuff, I have more and more questions that I am too dense to figure out from the manual. BTW, Overtures non-PDF help is way better than finale's pdf manual.

[docdestructo62]

Doc,

In case you haven't found it yet, you can check your drivers and sample rate for GPO Studio from the Settings menu...

=> Settings Menu
===> Audio Drivers (to choose among what you have installed)
===> Preferences (to choose Sample Rate)

;-)
jim

[MME] Microsoft Sound Mapper - Output(out)
[MME] SoundMax Digital Audio(out)
[DirectSound] Primary Sound Driver(out)
[DirectSound] SoundMax Digital Audio(out)

The first one is checked.

Sample rate is 44100 Hz the buffer is 256.

[docdestructo62]

[MME] Microsoft Sound Mapper - Output(out)
[MME] SoundMax Digital Audio(out)
[DirectSound] Primary Sound Driver(out)
[DirectSound] SoundMax Digital Audio(out)

The first one is checked.

Sample rate is 44100 Hz the buffer is 256.

Is this why I am having uneven tempi?

[Joseph Burrell]

Well, the program (GPO Studio) will certainly work with MME or DirectSound drivers, but VST is meant to be used with ASIO drivers. These could very well be the issue since you'll run up against bad latency with these drivers and poor performance.

You can download a free ASIO driver that is compatible with most sound cards called ASIO4ALL.

http://www.asio4all.com/

Try it and see if the situation improves. It may be worth investing in a better soundcard if you plan on working with VST's in the future. There's some to be had for less than $100 (like tha M-Audio Audiophile 24/96.)

[docdestructo62]

Well, the program (GPO Studio) will certainly work with MME or DirectSound drivers, but VST is meant to be used with ASIO drivers. These could very well be the issue since you'll run up against bad latency with these drivers and poor performance.

You can download a free ASIO driver that is compatible with most sound cards called ASIO4ALL.

http://www.asio4all.com/

Try it and see if the situation improves. It may be worth investing in a better soundcard if you plan on working with VST's in the future. There's some to be had for less than $100 (like tha M-Audio Audiophile 24/96.)

Thanks! This worked like a charm when I selected it for Overture 3.5. How do I choose to use this driver in Finale 2006? Would it work as well there?