Title music - comments please

[Nick Harvey]

Hi.

I'm working on the theme for a new TV series in the UK about a medium (female, middle-aged) who goes around giving readings to celebrities. The client wanted something filmic in nature, similar to the Channel 4 Derren Brown theme - which is a parody of a Bernard Hermann Psycho/Vertigo hybrid - but not as dark, as the age range of the audience is 16-24 and it's much more of an 'entertainment'-type show.

Here it is thus far:

http://www.messhead.com/downloads/Medium_At_Large.mp3

Comments much appreciated before I submit it. I just can't hear it objectively anymore! :)

Cheers,

Nick

[Marcussen]

Really good - yup - that about sums it up :)

[Nick Harvey]

Wow! Thanks Marcussen. I've always greatly respected your opinion.

Do you think it needs a bigger rise towards the end, or an extra sonic element added to the final hit to make it more climactic?

Hmmm. Too much of a bloody perfectionist, me.

[SimonF]

Hi Nick, great stuff,

I wish I could land some work like this..

I think you could get a bigger responce from a slightly bigger rise, don't over do it though.

Excellent piece of music.

Best wishes

Simon

[Nick Harvey]

Thanks Simon.

I'm working on the end as I type. It just needs an extra 'something'. Maybe half a bar of reversed beat leading to a bigger hit...

[Marcussen]

Wow! Thanks Marcussen. I've always greatly respected your opinion.

Do you think it needs a bigger rise towards the end, or an extra sonic element added to the final hit to make it more climactic?

Hmmm. Too much of a bloody perfectionist, me.

Well... You could try add Double bass, Tuba in the end. Its not something I thought was missing, but now that you mention it I could see it working.

[edit] Something like this maybe? Its subtle - because I dont think much needs to be changed: www.marcussenmusic.com/titlemusic.mp3

Just a few end notes in the lower register and a single timpani hit.

[Nick Harvey]

Well... You could try add Double bass, Tuba in the end. Its not something I thought was missing, but now that you mention it I could see it working.

[edit] Something like this maybe? Its subtle - because I dont think much needs to be changed: www.marcussenmusic.com/titlemusic.mp3

Just a few end notes in the lower register and a single timpani hit.
Excellent advice.

Here's the latest version:

http://www.messhead.com/downloads/Medium_At_Large_2.mp3

There's a subtle deep explosion on the first beat of the bar before the end hit. This adds to the rise with the cymbal roll seeming to come out from within the depths of it (God, I'm pretentious sometimes!). There's also a double bass note - thanks Marcussen :) - and an extra SFX on the final impact.

[SimonF]

Yep this is a great version and one I would be extremley happy with.

Sounds richer somehow..

Simon


Excellent advice.

Here's the latest version:

http://www.messhead.com/downloads/Medium_At_Large_2.mp3

There's a subtle deep explosion on the first beat of the bar before the end hit. This adds to the rise with the cymbal roll seeming to come out from within the depths of it (God, I'm pretentious sometimes!). There's also a double bass note - thanks Marcussen :) - and an extra SFX on the final impact.

[Nick Harvey]

Thanks Simon for taking the time to listen and for your advice. I appreciate it! :)

For all you Brits out there, the series starts at the end of March on ITV2.

[SimonF]

I have compared the two versions and listened to the new version another three times....


This is definatley the one to go for in my mind (and ears)

it works well for me..

Simon

[SimonF]

I would love to have a chat with you Nick, as any advice is gratefully appreciated...

[Tomke]

Comments much appreciated before I submit it. I just can't hear it objectively anymore! :)
Beautiful work, Nick. Very soft, mysterious and ... err .. kind of feminine in a way. :rolleyes: Don't know how else to put it, but meant as a compliment.
However, I also found something that I picked up on, that I'd like to suggest an alternative for. Hope you don’t mind.

Assuming that the rhythmical theme is 8th notes; the mood ‘color’ in bars 1 & 2, and again in the tail of the piece, is really good. However, both times that mood occurs it is resolved into the third note up (from the first chord), in major 7 mode and a chromatic four-note piano thingy leading into it. That I don’t feel quite comfortable with - particularly the 2nd time since it is the ending. Personally I’m left with the feeling that there should be something else there.

I’d like to suggest a transposition of bars 3, 4, 5 and 6: 4 semitones down – consequently one needs to re-arrange the four-note piano thingy in the end of bars 2 and 7 and omit the slight upwards pitch bend in the string bass there. This would make the whole piece “stay in key” more – for good or bad. Such a change would probably also make the chord change to bar 4 slightly more dull, because the preceding chord would be less of a throw-off harmonically. Of course, if doing this, the whole piece may need to be transposed up a note or two, so it doesn’t get too dark.

Once again: very good rendering of the emotional colors you described as your lead-sheet. I think we've all heard TV titles that doesn't even come close to this.
Good luck with your work, and don’t forget that check ;)

[Nick Harvey]

I would love to have a chat with you Nick, as any advice is gratefully appreciated...
Simon, I've PM'd you...

[Nick Harvey]

Tomke. Thanks a million for taking the time to listen. I've just opened up the project and am having a look at it now...

Very interesting comments. I'll give them a go and get back to you. :)

[Nick Harvey]

I’d like to suggest a transposition of bars 3, 4, 5 and 6: 4 semitones down
OK, so this is very rough and obviously it needs a lot more work to get it sounding half-way decent (especially the ending), but is this the sort of thing you were meaning?:

http://www.messhead.com/downloads/Medium_At_Large_trans.mp3

[Pingu]

Love the music. I only wish I gt ITV2. I'm afraid I currently use a little indoor aerial, which means I get C4, a very fuzzy ITV1 and nothing else. I really do love the piece though. What are the scritchy noises in the fade?

[SimonF]

That a big change to the sound Nick, more movement thats for sure..

I have to be honest say this is my favourite version yet.. you just keep getting a better version....

Simon


OK, so this is very rough and obviously it needs a lot more work to get it sounding half-way decent (especially the ending), but is this the sort of thing you were meaning?:

http://www.messhead.com/downloads/Medium_At_Large_trans.mp3

[Nick Harvey]

Love the music. I only wish I gt ITV2. I'm afraid I currently use a little indoor aerial, which means I get C4, a very fuzzy ITV1 and nothing else. I really do love the piece though. What are the scritchy noises in the fade?

Thanks Pingu. Get yourself Freeview. It only costs about £30. :)

Which version do you prefer? Do you like the transposed version which obviously needs a lot more work or the previous one?

The scritchy noises are from SAM True Strike 2. It's got some fantastic big hits with effected tails. Scrummy stuff!

[Tomke]

OK, so this is very rough and obviously it needs a lot more work to get it sounding half-way decent (especially the ending), but is this the sort of thing you were meaning?:

http://www.messhead.com/downloads/Medium_At_Large_trans.mp3
Yes, that's how I meant.
As suspected, it sounds dark and low now, but If one transposes the whole piece up a semitone, maybe even two, it might work better. Like so (Mickey mouse warning) Medium_At_Large_Pitched.mp3 (http://hem.bredband.net/kjearn/Medium_At_Large_Pitched.mp3)

To me it sounds more 'balanced' this way, but also less intriguing.
Anyway, it's an alternative :)

[Nick Harvey]

Thankyou so much Tomke. These are great ideas. I'll post something up when it's done.

[nikolas]

Nick,

I think it sounds lovely... ;)...

I will be watching closely at ITV2...

[Jim Clark]

Hi Nick,

I have been following along - what a great track! The more I listen - the more I like it- always a good sign!

Congrats!

Regards,

Jim

[Pingu]

Thanks Pingu. Get yourself Freeview. It only costs about £30. :)

Which version do you prefer? Do you like the transposed version which obviously needs a lot more work or the previous one?

The scritchy noises are from SAM True Strike 2. It's got some fantastic big hits with effected tails. Scrummy stuff!

Sorry Nick,

the transposed version must have appeared whilst I was writing my reply earlier, so I hadn't actually heard it. Now that I have I think I prefer it, though I agree with Tomke that the whole thing needs to go up a semitone or two in order to increase the tension somewhat.

[Nick Harvey]

Thankyou Nikolas and Jim. Glad you like it. I hope the producer does too when I email him the link tomorrow. "No. Sorry Nick. We're looking for something with a little bit more...oh, I dunno...err...kazoo?"

Here's the latest:

http://www.messhead.com/downloads/Medium_At_Large_trans2.mp3

The middle section's down 4 semitones and the whole thing's up a tone. Thanks Tomke for your suggestions. Very much appreciated. Beers are on me if ever you find yourself in London.

[Rob Elliott]

OK, so this is very rough and obviously it needs a lot more work to get it sounding half-way decent (especially the ending), but is this the sort of thing you were meaning?:

http://www.messhead.com/downloads/Medium_At_Large_trans.mp3


Great stuff Nick - if you are taking a vote, I like the 'darker' lower key.)(~

--of course lining it up to picture will tell you which one is best (and then of course the producer~| )


Rob

[Tomke]

I hope the producer does too when I email him the link tomorrow. "No. Sorry Nick. We're looking for something with a little bit more...oh, I dunno...err...kazoo?"
I bet he'll say "I don't know, I feel like it should be a little higher or something in the middle" :rolleyes:

[Nick Harvey]

Thanks Rob.

Do you mean the lower key with or without the transposed middle section?

edit: I've just noticed you quoted my rough transposed version so I assume you mean that you prefer that one key-wise.

Incidentally, they won't be lining it up to picture, they'll be cutting the title sequence to the music.

Cheers,

Nick

[Rob Elliott]

Thanks Rob.

Do you mean the lower key with or without the transposed middle section?

edit: I've just noticed you quoted my rough transposed version so I assume you mean that you prefer that one key-wise.

Incidentally, they won't be lining it up to picture, they'll be cutting the title sequence to the music.

Cheers,

Nick


Sorry - lower key WITH transposed version.*() Good luck on this.


Rob


edit: of course we want the BEST music in our clients hands BUT - we also want an approval - and check:p


so perhaps you send him a couple alternative. He then thinks he has a choice - either black shoes or brown shoes (this kind of corners your client into one or the other - and not something totally different out there in 'fuss - I don't really know what I want -land'. You know the drill - 'what if we had a mouth harp, violin and accordian. - kind of request~|


With a couple of 'choices' - it is a simple 'multiple choice' test for him.;)

[Jim Clark]

so perhaps you send him a couple alternative. He then thinks he has a choice - either black shoes or brown shoes (this kind of corners your client into one or the other - and not something totally different out there in 'fuss - I don't really know what I want -land'. You know the drill - 'what if we had a mouth harp, violin and accordian. - kind of request~|


With a couple of 'choices' - it is a simple 'multiple choice' test for him.;)

Rob, that is so true! I have used that approach many times, and it has usually worked quite well. It helps keep them on track, rather than going out into "left field" after already committing to a basic treatment.

Regards,

Jim

[Mosquito]

Good stuff Nick. I prefer the last version.
:)

[D.Montesinos]

Very Nice...

Congrats!,

D.M

[Nick Harvey]

Thanks Mosquito and D.Montesinos for you positive comments. :)

Here's the latest version (and the one that I've just emailed to the producer for his feedback):

http://www.messhead.com/downloads/Medium_At_Large_trans3.mp3

Rob, in general I agree with you about giving the client choices, but in this case, even though I liked it very much musically, I thought that the theme in the lower key might've been a tad too dark for this kind of show.

Right, time to make a coffee and stroke the cat.

[SimonF]

Great version and it fits your descrition well. Though you have cut the end off, was this intentional and is this exactly as the producer will get it... maybe you need to make a quick follow up..

Don't forget to send your address over.

Simon


Thanks Mosquito and D.Montesinos for you positive comments. :)

Here's the latest version (and the one that I've just emailed to the producer for his feedback):

http://www.messhead.com/downloads/Medium_At_Large_trans3.mp3

Rob, in general I agree with you about giving the client choices, but in this case, even though I liked it very much musically, I thought that the theme in the lower key might've been a tad too dark for this kind of show.

Right, time to make a coffee and stroke the cat.

[Nick Harvey]

What do you mean I've cut the end off?

It seems to me that it tails off quite naturally...urally....ally.....ly......y......

[SimonF]

Must have been an internet glitch because it just stopped dead at the swell.

It played ok the 2nd and 3rd time though..

Simon

[BarrieB]

Sorry Nick,

kinda missed this thread until today - very nice piece indeed, but looks like you'll have to split the PRS:(

regards

Barrie

[Nick Harvey]

Err, I believe Tomke is happy to accept a pint of warm English ale as payment for his advice. Tomke?

And I've heard that Marcussen is just a really lovely bloke who dishes out words of musical wisdom freely and without a thought of gaining anything financially from short, hairy cat-owning composers. Err, Marcussen?

And everyone else on this thread is just adorable! They're great people who are overflowing with goodwill and kindness.

Hmmm....

[SimonF]

Warm beer, thats something I haven't had in a while!

and there are lots of good warm beers here in England...

Infact I have a T-shirt on today that says " Consciousness, the annoying time between beers"

Simon

[Stephanie Pray]

This is great!! I really enjoyed it! )(~

[Nick Harvey]

Thanks for taking the time to listen moviemaestro. Much appreciated. :)

[Tomke]

Err, I believe Tomke is happy to accept a pint of warm English ale as payment for his advice. Tomke?
Just glad you liked the suggestion. But um ... if for some reason you're going to score an xxx movie in the future, don't hesitate to send me a copy for free :rolleyes:

[Nick Harvey]

For anyone that's interested, the producer told me last week that the name of the series and the whole brief for the music had been changed.

They now wanted it to be up-tempo, dark and breakbeaty, still with orchestral elements but much more in-your-face.

Obviously I had to start again from scratch!

This is the signed off version:

http://www.messhead.com/downloads/Extreme_Psychic_3.mp3

[BarrieB]

What a pain... but forever thus, eh?

I think the first piece was a whole lot classier - as a concept, obviously both pieces are well made..

Well, you can lead a producer to water, but he'll have to agonise about if it's just THE right water for the job, and couldn't it be a bit bit more like (mentioning a successful series he wishes he had made) that particular water?:D

Well done anyway!!

Barrie

[SimonF]

These industry people do like to change their minds alot!!!

Still you have done an excellent job in this new piece..

Nice work here Nick..

Regards

Simon

[JonP]

Sounds just right for what you're talking about.

I just checked your website and read that you did the music for that David Ginola mock doc. That must have been great fun to do - my wife and I sat there all the way through trying to suss out if it was for real.

[nikolas]

For anyone that's interested, the producer told me last week that the name of the series and the whole brief for the music had been changed.
Ouch! It doesn't sound really nice.

It always makes me wonder if these people have any clue really... I mean they start by saying "We will make a sci-fi thriller called 'Over the end of time'" and next week the call you and they say "Hem, we decided to call the series 'over the end of the west' and it will be a western...". hehe...

Anyways...

Music sound VERY ITV style (very british telly more or less). So great work here as well! :D

[Nick Harvey]

By the way, I posted a work-in-progress version by mistake. The signed-off version is in its place here:

http://www.messhead.com/downloads/Extreme_Psychic_3.mp3


Well, you can lead a producer to water, but he'll have to agonise about if it's just THE right water for the job, and couldn't it be a bit bit more like (mentioning a successful series he wishes he had made) that particular water?:D


You speak in riddles Barrie. Do you mean, err, Watership Down? Or something starring Dennis Waterman? Or, hmmm, Water Retention - The Inside Story? Please enlighten me?


I just checked your website and read that you did the music for that David Ginola mock doc. That must have been great fun to do - my wife and I sat there all the way through trying to suss out if it was for real.

It was a lot of fun to do. Judging by the feedback afterwards, I imagine a lot of the viewers were fooled by it actually. Although, being BBC3 that's probably about ten people...


Music sound VERY ITV style (very british telly more or less).D
Not sure whether that's a good thing or not. :)


Still you have done an excellent job in this new piece.

Thankyou Simon.

Nick

[nikolas]

Not sure whether that's a good thing or not. :)
I meant it as the best thing and for that specific track only! After all ITV is the client... So it's a good thing that it reminded me them... ;)

[Nick Harvey]

I meant it as the best thing and for that specific track only! After all ITV is the client... So it's a good thing that it reminded me them... ;)
I know, I know. I do but jest, squire. Thanks for the compliment. :)

[BarrieB]

"You speak in riddles Barrie. Do you mean, err, Watership Down? Or something starring Dennis Waterman? Or, hmmm, Water Retention - The Inside Story? Please enlighten me?"



Come on now, Nick, I'd have thought that was perfectly obvious:D , in an obscure kind of way....

Looks like we've got a bit of a London Chapter forming here - perhaps we should do warm beer at some point...

wbw


Barrie

[SimonF]

It does occur to me that being a composer is a very isolated part of the music business. Even though to some degree we are competition to each other, should share a warm beer and muse over life, music and TV producers lol......

I would be up fo a meet in town if you guys fancy it..


"You speak in riddles Barrie. Do you mean, err, Watership Down? Or something starring Dennis Waterman? Or, hmmm, Water Retention - The Inside Story? Please enlighten me?"



Come on now, Nick, I'd have thought that was perfectly obvious:D , in an obscure kind of way....

Looks like we've got a bit of a London Chapter forming here - perhaps we should do warm beer at some point...

wbw


Barrie

[nikolas]

I would be up fo a meet in town if you guys fancy it..
Same here... ;)

And actually I've yet to feel bad when I find out that someone else got the job or something like that. I usually try ot notify my friends of upcoming jobs and stuff. (depends on how busy I am of course... I'm not that naive...)

[BarrieB]

A lot of the older songwriters / composers in London seem to gravitate to playing golf together... as long as that is ABSOLUTELY FORBIDDEN we'll be fine.

wbw


BB

[Nick Harvey]

Looks like we've got a bit of a London Chapter forming here - perhaps we should do warm beer at some point...
I too would most enjoy a flagon of ale with such esteemed company.

Any other cockney geezers out there fancy a rendezvous at a Londinium drinking house?


Come on now, Nick, I'd have thought that was perfectly obvious:D , in an obscure kind of way....
I've got it! Watering the Dead. No? How about Deal or no Water? Err, Dancing on Iced Water? Ready Steady Water?


And actually I've yet to feel bad when I find out that someone else got the job
Oh, I get furious. I lie in a foetal position and tear out my hair, wailing and beating the floor with my head. ;)

[SimonF]

Oh, I get furious. I lie in a foetal position and tear out my hair, wailing and beating the floor with my head. ;)


Thats just no way to treat your studio floor..... the yoof of today has no respect for their gear!

[Ange]

Thanks Simon for taking the time to listen and for your advice. I appreciate it! :)

For all you Brits out there, the series starts at the end of March on ITV2.
Hello!
As one of those (Brits) myself though only by adoption...:D
I shall certainly look out for this.
I love the atmosphere you have created here...just my thing...
Drama, mystery and a flair for the theatrical...
Thankyou Nick.
This link may show some of the kind of things I get involved with:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=573402&songID=4271257
lyrics and voice only are my doing.
Amitiés
Annemarie

[Steve_Karl]

Nice work.
Interesting to hear growth version by version of the first conscept.