Poll: Aftertouch

[Chris Hein]

Are you using aftertouch?

If a sample library has essential features programmed on aftertouch:
- Would you be able to use it?
- Do you like to use aftertouch?
- Would you need an alternative controller to use it?

Thanks for helping developers to create better products.

Chris Hein

[Tomke]

Barely ever use aftertouch. I can use it, don't need a separate controller. I just haven't used it much at all - no specific reason. I won't mind using it if required though.

[steff3]

Well, as the industrie slowly adapts to aftertouch again (like edirol with their USB keyboards etc.)- yes, would be great.
But please also note that a lot of great 88 keyboards do not support aftertouch (Well, personally I only find the Kawai keyboard of acceptable quality for an 88 keyboard and that does not support aftertouch) - so keyswitches and aftertouch together might not be a good idea :-)

best

[Steve_Karl]

I'm using it on a few instruments.
It doesn't seem to be very common these days.
I like it.

[germancomponist]

Hi Chris,

I use aftertouch any time. That was one reason for me to buy an EMU Xboard 61 in the last days. Aftertouch is so very usefull. I wonder why so many instruments not programmed to recive aftertouch... .

I wonder also that a lot of 88 keyboards do not support aftertouch?!

Best Regards

[germancomponist]

Well, as the industrie slowly adapts to aftertouch again (like edirol with their USB keyboards etc.)- yes, would be great.
But please also note that a lot of great 88 keyboards do not support aftertouch (Well, personally I only find the Kawai keyboard of acceptable quality for an 88 keyboard and that does not support aftertouch) - so keyswitches and aftertouch together might not be a good idea :-)

best

Hi Steff,

I use 2 keyboards. One 61 Emu with aftertouch and a second (creative-mini prodikeys) for keyswitches :)

Best Regards

[PierreFunck]

I'd like to use aftertouch, but most virtual instruments only support midi control changes, and aftertouch doesn't correspond to a controller number.

I'd greatly appreciate *polyphonic* aftertouch, but as far as I know, there is no midi controller keyboard on the market that supports it.

[germancomponist]

I'd like to use aftertouch, but most virtual instruments only support midi control changes, and aftertouch doesn't correspond to a controller number.

I'd greatly appreciate *polyphonic* aftertouch, but as far as I know, there is no midi controller keyboard on the market that supports it.

Yes, many years ago that was a highlight. At that time I used a Casio Synthesizer who have had this, a great thing!

I think the industry have forgotten this exclusiv possibility to control the sound?!

Much years ago it was a problem for the most sequenzer programs to process the many datas which coul`d send from poly-aftertouch.. . But know in ouer time that isn`t a problem yet... .

Hey, is there a manufacturer who reads ouer words?:)

[zvenx]

I use to use it a lot years ago, but I find that many modern synths (I use mostly software now) do not have it programmed into a patch and so I most time even forget it exists :-)
rsp

[mathis]

I think aftertouch is a great feature and much too less often implemented.

[Chris Hein]

Wow, what a great response so far. Thanks.


- so keyswitches and aftertouch together might not be a good idea :-)
I was thinking about doing the articulation switch with just one key and aftertouch, about 40. ;-)

Chris Hein

[germancomponist]

....about 40. ;-)

Chris Hein

What do you mean wit "about 40"?

[vic_france]

I use aftertouch all the time.. sometimes for vibrato, sometimes for opening a filter or slightly increasing volume. Also, I'm lucky enough to have a keyboard with poly aftertouch (Elka MK88 mk2).

[Nickie Fønshauge]

What do you mean wit "about 40"?
40 different articulations with just one aftertouched key ;) Takes a lot of nerve and a surgions hand :wow:

[germancomponist]

40 different articulations with just one aftertouched key ;) Takes a lot of nerve and a surgions hand :wow:

ups, 40 with just one key..., that`s a little much :)

[dermod]

Aftertouch is essential for the Garritan strad. Fortunately, it can be drawn in by the mouse in a midi-editor under the channel pressure option. Apparently it is not easy to use, and often absent from, midi keyboards.

[germancomponist]

Aftertouch is essential for the Garritan strad. Fortunately, it can be drawn in by the mouse in a midi-editor under the channel pressure option. Apparently it is not easy to use, and often absent from, midi keyboards.

Oh yes, I have bougt the Garritan strad. 2 weeks ago and this instrument prepares large joy for me . I love it!

[Andrew Aversa]

Neither of my keyboards (Edirol PCR-30 and M-Audio Keystation Pro 88) have aftertouch, so I would not use that feature.

[germancomponist]

Neither of my keyboards (Edirol PCR-30 and M-Audio Keystation Pro 88) have aftertouch, so I would not use that feature.

Oh, that is unfortunate, because aftertouch is a very simple thing to controll the sounding.

[JonFairhurst]

The only patch that I've ever really liked aftertouch on is a Jaco-style fretless bass. Aftertouch flattens the pitch by up to a full step.

The problem I have with aftertouch is it's a bit sloppy and hard to control. Maybe that's why it works on the fretless bass. Sloppy sounds kinda cool.

I guess it could be used to bend a string (sharp) as well. Don't let me son use it though! His electric guitar has really high, narrow frets (Ibanez RG-series). And he has a heavy left hand at times. I thought his guitar was out of tune, but it turns out that his open strings just sounded flatter than when pressing his power chords too hard. I pointed it out to him. We'll see if he adjusts...

I've never had that problem with my LP Custom. I love low, wide frets. :)

So... Use aftertouch to detune sharp on the Ibanez RG-series, but not on a LP Custom to simulate different fret heights for those with heavy hands. ;)

[germancomponist]

The only patch that I've ever really liked aftertouch on is a Jaco-style fretless bass. Aftertouch flattens the pitch by up to a full step.

The problem I have with aftertouch is it's a bit sloppy and hard to control. Maybe that's why it works on the fretless bass. Sloppy sounds kinda cool.

I guess it could be used to bend a string (sharp) as well. Don't let me son use it though! His electric guitar has really high, narrow frets (Ibanez RG-series). And he has a heavy left hand at times. I thought his guitar was out of tune, but it turns out that his open strings just sounded flatter than when pressing his power chords too hard. I pointed it out to him. We'll see if he adjusts...

I've never had that problem with my LP Custom. I love low, wide frets. :)

So... Use aftertouch to detune sharp on the Ibanez RG-series, but not on a LP Custom to simulate different fret heights for those with heavy hands. ;)

Hm, I think, because everyone has his own style to press the keys, there are a lot of possibilities in the sequenzer programms to limit the aftertouch range... . :)

[Tomke]

I played in a theatre setting long ago, on a Korg 01W using soundpatch that had modulation (vibrato) on aftertouch. I had a solo spot, where I could do whatever I wanted with a reed-like lead sound. As I improvised, I usually feel like singing. So where there would be a vibrato I pressed the key down, sort of laid in to it and - as stupid as it may sound - rubbed or shaked the key from side to side in a way - just like a guitar player or trumpet player would to make vibrato. It just came, automatically.

Trumpet players do that too: tend to rub the valve back and forth. The classic school trumpet teacher would probably tell you that this would have no efficient effect on the tone - only the lips - since the valves principally works up and down. Same thing with a synth, rubbing a plastic key back and forth has even less of an effect.:D

But emotionally, it feels very natural and expressive. When vibrato was the result, it really did feel to me as if pressing down and tremouring that key was me doing a physical vibrato on a plastic synth. It probably makes you look like an alien while playing %- but it has it's charm.

[cmdratz]

Are you using aftertouch?

If a sample library has essential features programmed on aftertouch:
- Would you be able to use it?
- Do you like to use aftertouch?
- Would you need an alternative controller to use it?

Thanks for helping developers to create better products.

Chris Hein

Yes. I'm not sure, but probably would; I don't have a virtual instrument or sample library that uses it yet. No, I got mine with monophonic aftertouch after a long search for a polyphonic aftertouch controller priced for a hobbiest; it was important in my decision, despite my favorite music companies choice to skip support for it at the time, because I was intrigued by the potential of the feature. I have a Novation Remote 61; it is my only controller keyboard.

[chrisharang]

First of all, thank you for asking! It is commendable to solicit such feedback and (possibly) incorporate it into future design/development decisions.

I would use aftertouch if a sample program required it, without needing new hardware. As others have mentioned, aftertouch seems to be under utilized by sample libraries in general. There are definitely times when it would feel natural for me to use -- adding vibrato to a sustain sample, for example, or maybe say if you're on a trumpet, going from a sustain to a "shake" or "doit".

Thanks

- Chris

[CBK780]

I am returning to composing after a 10 year hiatus and am replacing my old synthesizers and stuff with a single powerful DAW and virtual instruments.

Because I am an improvisational musician, playability is the most important consideration. I committed to the Garritan Libraries after having seen the video of the Massenet Meditation played opn the Strad.

http://www.garritan.com/Strad/DemoStradMassenetMsfm1.swf

I'm saying this in preface to commenting that I have come to realize that manipulation of the midi controllers is the key to playability. If it becomes awkward or too complex, you lose it.

So it seems to me that aftertouch is essential to playability. If you think about controlling vibrato with your fingers through aftertouch versus controlling it with a wheel or pedal, it seems clear that aftertouch would win out.

But I just swapped one of the old, wonderful Yamaha keyboards out and put in an Alesis Q8.1 so I could learn to use aftertouch. So far I have been very disappointed and agree it is almost impossible to use.

I think that for those who want to compose through improvisation with a minimum of editing, it will be important to choose a keyboard with both excellent action and useful aftertouch.

Does anyone have a good story to report about a highly playable 88 keyboard with great aftertouch?

Charlie

[kstevege]

I think aftertouch has been overlooked and should be implemented as an option to control articulations and make your live performance/recording more authentic. I know I would use it for vibrato and pitch bends.

[LHall]

I use it to control vibrato speed (factory default) in the Garritan Strad. In JABB, I've rerouted my controller so that I control the amount of vibrato with the mod wheel for saxes instead of pressure.

I find aftertouch really hard to control accurately - and I have a controller that allows me to really fine tune the aftertouch curve parameters.

So, short answer is that it's probably fine for controlling some things but not so great for others.

My $.02

[Andrew Aversa]

May I add that the most likely reason why many developers don't include aftertouch is because not all keyboards HAVE aftertouch. As I mentioned, the very popular Edirol PCR series does not have it (neither does the PCR M series). The ubiquitous M-Audio Keystation brand does not have it. The Oxygen does not have it. The Korg KONTROL series does not have it, neither does the K-Series. The Novation ReMOTE does not have it. Many lower ($1k or less) range workstations do not have it. I bet I could come up with a few more if I looked around, too.

Including aftertouch as an optional controller is nice. It adds a level of convenience for those that have that functionality. However, many users don't. On the other hand, just about every keyboard in existence has velocity, modwheel control, and a huge number of them have knobs/sliders too for assignment. I would be careful about setting up a library in such a way where you HAVE to have aftertouch to make use of it. If you can find another way around that, or make another set of patches where aftertouch is not required, that would be a good compromise.

[germancomponist]

[quote=Andrew Aversa]May I add that the most likely reason why many developers don't include aftertouch is because not all keyboards HAVE aftertouch. As I mentioned, the very popular Edirol PCR series does not have it (neither does the PCR M series). The ubiquitous M-Audio Keystation brand does not have it. The Oxygen does not have it. The Korg KONTROL series does not have it, neither does the K-Series. The Novation ReMOTE does not have it. Many lower ($1k or less) range workstations do not have it. I bet I could come up with a few more if I looked around, too. ...

[quote]

The EMU Xboard have it and it works great with the EMU Sampler *()

[SimonF]

My current controller is a Novation KS4 and this has aftertouch which I like to use with some sounds, not every sound would benefit from it.
I found it useful with guitar sounds and wierd effects and synths too.

[Len]

Sorry - but can I ask something here - as one poster has noted, isn't aftertouch essential if you use the Garritan Strad or Gofriller and want to perform the piece in real time without editing (as in that amazing Gofriller piece posted a couple of days ago)?

I'm going to get Gofriller when it comes out and want to make sure I have the right keyboard (mine currently does not have aftertouch).

Many thanks all)(~

[Len]

Sorry - but can I ask something here - as one poster has noted, isn't aftertouch essential if you use the Garritan Strad or Gofriller and want to perform the piece in real time without editing (as in that amazing Gofriller piece posted a couple of days ago)?

I'm going to get Gofriller when it comes out and want to make sure I have the right keyboard (mine currently does not have aftertouch).

Many thanks all)(~

[Nickie Fønshauge]

Sorry - but can I ask something here - as one poster has noted, isn't aftertouch essential if you use the Garritan Strad or Gofriller and want to perform the piece in real time without editing (as in that amazing Gofriller piece posted a couple of days ago)?

I'm going to get Gofriller when it comes out and want to make sure I have the right keyboard (mine currently does not have aftertouch).

Many thanks all)(~
Not essential, but an option. You can get by with CC#67 instead.

[Richard Berg]

I bought another controller recently. I made sure it had aftertouch so I could take advantage of the new libraries coming out. The more variables we can control in real-time the better!


If the trumpeter were to try to do that with the holding hand - the effect would be too great!

Right -- that's how you get the "shake" effect used by jazz lead trumpeters with steel lips.

I don't think the instinctual motion with the playing hand contributes to vibrato. It's mostly in the jaw & embrochure, with the rest coming from the diaphragm (a la singers or flute players) depending on how the individual was taught. On low brass I do it entirely with the jaw, and it's no less "wide" despite the obvious inability to move the instrument around. The hand motion is just that -- instinctual.

You see pianists (including me) do the same thing, even though it has no hope of affecting the sound. (Granted, on piano it has the very important side effect of loosening the wrist, which is essential to the "arm weight" school of technique.)

[dcwave]

...The Novation ReMOTE does not have it.


I have a ReMOTE 25 SL - it has aftertouch. I use it.

[CBK780]

I think that when you are talking about live playing (as opposed to using edits to add controller information) the problem is having enough body parts to control the playing in real time.

So far, my experience has been that continuous foot controllers (e.g. an expression pedal) is too crude to be really useful.

A mod wheel is great but takes your entire hand so you cannot do anything else with it.

A knob or slider is only useful in real time if you can dedicate a body part to moving it while you play. That's tough if you have one hand on a keyboard and another on the mod wheel.

So it seems to me that aftertouch is essential for real time control. Putting aside, for the moment, the concern that a lot of implementations may be flawed.

Controlling vibrato depth does not leap out at me as an intuitive parameter to control with aftertouch. Vibrato -- if the aftertouch really worked well -- seems like it would make sense since your finger is on the key already and you would press harder to start the vibrato and ease up to lessen it as you prepare for release.

Charlie

[SimonF]

[quote=Andrew Aversa]May I add that the most likely reason why many developers don't include aftertouch is because not all keyboards HAVE aftertouch. As I mentioned, the very popular Edirol PCR series does not have it (neither does the PCR M series). The ubiquitous M-Audio Keystation brand does not have it. The Oxygen does not have it. The Korg KONTROL series does not have it, neither does the K-Series. The Novation ReMOTE does not have it. Many lower ($1k or less) range workstations do not have it. I bet I could come up with a few more if I looked around, too. ...

[quote]

The EMU Xboard have it and it works great with the EMU Sampler *()




The whole Remote DOES have it. a quote from Novations website.

Superb semi-weighted, high-quality keyboard, velocity- and aftertouch-sensitive (25, 37 and 61 models only) I think all of Novations products going back to 1997 have had aftertouch.

[SimonF]

To add to my last post the now legacy Remote and Remote SL rages have aftertouch according to Novations website...

I double checked the website...

[PierreFunck]

Is there ANY controller keyboard on the market that has polyphonic aftertouch?

[cmdratz]

[...]The Novation ReMOTE does not have it.[...]

[...]I got mine with monophonic aftertouch after a long search for a polyphonic aftertouch controller priced for a hobbiest; it was important in my decision, despite my favorite music companies choice to skip support for it at the time, because I was intrigued by the potential of the feature. I have a Novation Remote 61; it is my only controller keyboard.
First there are 3 series of Remotes, not just one board. In addition to the standard Remote series that my monophonic aftertouch capable controller keyboard is a member of, which I posted about before your post as quoted above (it was $450 in ~2005), there is indeed a cheaper LE series which does not support aftertouch; however there is also an SL series that is the successor to the old standard Remote, which another poster has pointed out has monophonic aftertouch.

I have a ReMOTE 25 SL - it has aftertouch. I use it.
I've looked it up on their website, as well as at couple of retailers' sites, too.

[cmdratz]

Is there ANY controller keyboard on the market that has polyphonic aftertouch?
What is your budget range?

[vic_france]

Is there ANY controller keyboard on the market that has polyphonic aftertouch?
As far as I know (cmdratz, maybe you know to the contrary?) there is no currently manufactured keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch.. tragic though this is, you'll need to be looking in the second-hand market.

[Robert Kooijman]

I agree with those stating aftertouch is often hard to control.

If you don't shy away from a bit of soldering, you can modify your keyboards aftertouch to be controlled by a fader instead. You'll get another continuous controller that way for free!

Your sequencer can transform aftertouch to any other CC if desired.

Most keyboards having mono-aftertouch use one or two strips of conducting foam under the keys. When pressed upon, the foam conducts in proportion to key pressure. The midi controller chip handles the resulting variable resistance the same way as e.g. your modwheel. This foam thing obviously isn't a very precise and sophisticated mechanism, but it's cheap and therefore so popular with keyboard manufacturers ;)

Anyway, you can disconnect the foam strip(s) and replace them with a good linear 10K fader or pot. This works well with my Fatar SL880 (similar logic is used in countless other keyboards). I applied a series resistor of 180 ohm to effectively use the whole fader range. A parallel (e.g. 10uF) condenser can be applied for smoothening. This might need some experimenting. See picture below using an Alps fader to test:

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s276/RobertKooijman/Aftertouchtestwithfader.jpg

[Ty]

Hi

Use it all of the time, old school I know but definitely a controller that's been overlooked in the last few years!

[peter269]

Are you using aftertouch?

If a sample library has essential features programmed on aftertouch:
- Would you be able to use it?
- Do you like to use aftertouch?
- Would you need an alternative controller to use it?

Thanks for helping developers to create better products.

Chris Hein


Chris,

In line with your question, I think you need to review how many keyboards out there are really implementing aftertouch. When I co-produced the MSO for E-MU, we removed aftertouch because so few keyboards had it. When it was needed, we just assigned it to the mod wheel.

[zvenx]

ah, you are the one to blame for that!!!! :-)
is there a con for doing it both ways, and giving the user the option?
rsp

[Nigel W]

I like using aftertouch because it means I have three dynamic controllers right there: Pitch Wheel, Mod Wheel, & AT-and you can use them all intuitively, better than with a slider, for instance. 2 controls alone aren't enough when you want to control volume, filter, pitch, envelope, layer select etc, etc, etc.

Nigel

[germancomponist]

Chris,

In line with your question, I think you need to review how many keyboards out there are really implementing aftertouch. When I co-produced the MSO for E-MU, we removed aftertouch because so few keyboards had it. When it was needed, we just assigned it to the mod wheel.

Hi Peter,

for a time I was very interested about the MSO..., but the demos deterred me.... . In other forums I had read that there would come new demos from this library..., without the much reverb :-) Also I had read the story of your Link "Producing the MSO (http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/store/libraries/mso/documents/mso.pdf)"

The new EMU sampler is very good, and what is now with the EMU MSO library?

Best Regards

[jeffn1]

I have an MK-461C. I don't think it has aftertouch.

Reading the manual, it looks like the Garritan Strad is designed to be played with aftertouch.

Is it true there is no midi cc number corresponding to afterotuch, so I can't assing it to a slider on my MK-461C?

jeffn1

[Nickie Fønshauge]

I have an MK-461C. I don't think it has aftertouch.

Reading the manual, it looks like the Garritan Strad is designed to be played with aftertouch.

Is it true there is no midi cc number corresponding to afterotuch, so I can't assing it to a slider on my MK-461C?

jeffn1
This (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showpost.php?p=472877&postcount=37) is the answer I gave a couple of pages back. It is still valid.

[jeffn1]

This (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showpost.php?p=472877&postcount=37) is the answer I gave a couple of pages back. It is still valid.

Thank you.

jeffn1

[jovan]

Aftertouch is not really common.
Is there any natural instrument that uses aftertouch?
I don't know one.
You?

:-) Jovan

[jeffn1]

Aftertouch is not really common.
Is there any natural instrument that uses aftertouch?
I don't know one.
You?

:-) Jovan

Well, controllers are used for many sampled sounds (not to mention synthesized type sounds) where the sounds can be controlled after the attack (unlike the piano which does afford much control after hitting the key, there are exceptions in terms of pedaling, etc.).

But many non-keyboard instruments give a lot of control after the initial attack, including all string instruments, horns, wind instruments, etc.

So aftertouch is just another way of controling that (in addition to controller faders, expression pedals, mouth-based wind controllers, etc.).

jeffn1

[SimonF]

I have found it useful with string bending of guitar sounds the most. though synth sounds also benefit.......

[jovan]

Well, controllers are used for many sampled sounds (not to mention synthesized type sounds) where the sounds can be controlled after the attack (unlike the piano which does afford much control after hitting the key, there are exceptions in terms of pedaling, etc.).

But many non-keyboard instruments give a lot of control after the initial attack, including all string instruments, horns, wind instruments, etc.

So aftertouch is just another way of controling that (in addition to controller faders, expression pedals, mouth-based wind controllers, etc.).

jeffn1


I experimented with aftertouch but I found it not really useable so I switched to the breath-controller & use it also on my midi guitar.

:-) Jovan

[CBK780]

In researching this further, I came across the STC-1000 Flat Boy.

You can see it ast: http://www.keyfax.com/keyfax/prdct.html

It doesn't look from my web searches that this has a lot of activity or development gooing on (I suspect it is a very small company) but it seems interesting to me.

It's an XYZ touchpad. So in principle, you could push up for expression, to the side for vibrato and down for vibrato depth (orpossibly even pitchbend).

If it worked, it would allow you to control the major parameters for an instrument like the Strad with one hand.

I think that the difficulty with this type of device would be that you do not have a physical indicator as to its current position. So I'm not certain how you would know where it was starting for each note.

Anyone have experience or thoughts about this device? And about XYZ controllers in general?

Charlie

[Worra]

I think that aftertouch is a great and natural way of controlling a sampled instrument.
Correctly implemented it can really improve the playability of a instrument.

[SimonF]

I think that aftertouch is a great and natural way of controlling a sampled instrument.
Correctly implemented it can really improve the playability of a instrument.


I totally agree with you Worra, I certainly would rather have it than not...

[germancomponist]

I totally agree with you Worra, I certainly would rather have it than not...

I totally agree, too. *()

[kstevege]

Would be really hard to control articulations with aftertouch - the note's already launched by the time you get to aftertouch - kind of like trying to saddle a horse that's already out the gate. :D :D

Stephen


Not true. What you are saying means controllers such as pitchbend, modulation, expression would be useless however we all use them all the time after the note has ben launched. If you understand what aftertouch is then you would be able to understand you can assign it any midi control. For example I can assign the aftertouch on my keyboard to control modulation and therefore give my note vibrato. Or I can assign it pitch bend so after I launch the note I can press down on the key harder to envoke some bend. The value (pitch) of the bend will be dependent on the aftertouch velocity.

Does that make sense?

[Robert Kooijman]

True. Aftertouch is more a post-note 'switch' rather then a usable continuous controller IMO :)

[Chris Hein]

Would be really hard to control articulations with aftertouch
Hey, it was a joke when I said controlling 40 articulations with aftertouch.
In fact my upcomming library will have much more than 40 articulations per instruments. ;-)
(Can't stop it)

Thanks again so far for this interesting discussion.

Now I know, I'll include aftertouch but have the same feature available through CC.

Chris Hein

[CBK780]

In reference to the STC-1000 Flat Boy:

It zeroes to wherever you start your touch at and leaves it where you lift your touch device. Then readjusts that to where you make your next touch - continuously keeps track and starts from wherever you left off and virtually remaps that to where the next touch is. Just like a mouse or a touchpad on a laptop.

Stephen: So have you tried this unit? Do you have any opionion as to the value oit offers the VI player who is concerned with real time control? And any idea as to the staatus of the company?

Charlie

[germancomponist]

Hey, it was a joke when I said controlling 40 articulations with aftertouch.
In fact my upcomming library will have much more than 40 articulations per instruments. ;-)
(Can't stop it)

Thanks again so far for this interesting discussion.

Now I know, I'll include aftertouch but have the same feature available through CC.

Chris Hein

Ups, there is another one here who makes jokes :-) *()

...smile~|

[germancomponist]

About the flat boy:

To use this you need a free hand which controlls it... .

Aftertouch can be controlled at the same time your fingers control the single notes or accords at your keyboard... .

Because I often play guitar, I use also often foot controllers, and with this, it is very nice to control the sound, too. *()

Since last week I thought that yamahas breath controllers only worked with their own equipment..., puhhhh, and now I know that they still works with any midiequipment ... . So the next controller I will buy is a yamaha breath controller :wow: :|:

[germancomponist]

Actually - the BS3 won't work with all controllers - just those who say that they are compatible with it - CME and Yamaha are the only brands that I know for certain support it. There is also an inline hardware interface for it from MIDI Solutions.

Stephen

Smile: If I was here in the forum last week at the thread "name the new Garritan Sampler" I was thinking about new controllers to control the sounds. I remembered about the Peter Framptons "talk box" to create fantastic guitar sounds and I thought: hey, that is a very good idea to make this with a midi controller... .
In my enthusiasm for it I wrote my idea up to Garry Garritan, but than I saw that my idea wasn`new and realised from yamaha some years ago... .:confused:

But, perhaps there is hardwaremanufacturer who make this better than yamaha... . *()

[CBK780]

Because I often play guitar, I use also often foot controllers, and with this, it is very nice to control the sound, too.

Do you find that any particular controllers are able to provide you with reasonably fine continuous control?

I am just returning an expression pedal I purchased because I found it so hard to control (to be fair, I have some physical limitations which might be a factor).

Charlie

[germancomponist]

Do you find that any particular controllers are able to provide you with reasonably fine continuous control?

I am just returning an expression pedal I purchased because I found it so hard to control (to be fair, I have some physical limitations which might be a factor).

Charlie

For me at the beginning it was also not easy to use, but with the time I learned.

I think that there will be in the future completely new controllerss. Perhaps disturb you your physical restriction then no longer.

Best Regards

[CBK780]

That would be great.

Charlie

[germancomponist]

Look here:

http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2007/02/12/digital-media-insider-podcast-7-express-yourself.html

scroll down and click to the video of he Morrison Digital Trumpet *()

[CBK780]

Yes, I found the article by Jim Aiken. That is how I located the Flat Boy touchpad.

After reading the article, I wrote to Jim and suggested that he consider an article for EM or another of his publications. He responded quickly and courteously, suggesting that it was a good idea and he would follow up.

Here is a copy of the email that I sent to him:



Hi Jim:

I have been reading your commentary for many years. What prompted this note was a rather old article of yours that I came across in O’Reilly about MIDI controllers.

I have recently started to compose in MIDI again after a decade or so. I am getting rid of a rack of hardware synths and trying to create the entire studio in a PC using virtual instruments.

Unlike some MIDI composers, I prefer to play in real time. I am an improvisational musician who wants to let the music flow and spend a minimum amount of time entering or editing notes. So for me, the playability of a virtual instrument is one of the most important elements.

I have been trying to decide on how to best configure MIDI controllers and am quite unhappy with what I am finding. For example, playing Gary Garritan’s lovely Strad instrument requires that you control: 1- expression, 2-vibrato 3-vibrato depth and 4-pitch bend as a minimum – all in real time. With current controllers, it is almost impossible to do this.

As I look at current control surfaces, they seem to be designed mostly around sliders and knobs. Great if you just want to tweak a sound before playing it but not so great for real time playability.

I tried an expression pedal and found it far too crude for controlling a subtle string instrument.

Aftertouch would be helpful but seems to be poorly implemented on most keyboards.

Ribbon controllers are scarce. I looked at the Key ax SCT-1000 Flat Boy xyz touch screen you mentioned in the O’Reilly piece. It is an intriguing concept but it looks as if the company has not done any work on it for a couple of years and are still at v1.00. I think there may also be a problem with the fact that on a touch surface there is no obvious origin point for reference or visual feedback of it’s state,

Other controller companies like eowave (http://eowave.com/) seem very small and more geared to the person willing to engineer a custom controllers than a consumer musician who wants buy it, plug it in and play/

All this is to encourage you to revisit the area of MIDI controllers in the near future. I believe that with Virtual Instruments becoming so good, the ability to easily configure and play in real time (whether for performance or composition) is an exciting vision that may be ready for prime time. But the demands of real time playability do not seem to work well with the controllers currently available.

I would love to see EM or another of your outlets explore this issue.

Best,

Charlie


I've seen that Nick Batzdorf posts here from time to time and I was thinking that I should also contact him to suggest that VI focus on controllers and playability.

I'm glad that people seem interested in this area.

Charlie
(Snowed in in Princeton NJ)