P4 Motherboard Selection

[csduke]

I am starting a selection process for a P4-based motherboard.

My ideal features list are:
DDR 333
Hyperthreading
Serial ATA
LAN
USB 2.0
533 MHz FSB
Firewire (optional)
3 GB RAM

I would initially populate the boards with a 2.4 GHz P4, and standard SDRAM with plans to upgrade both in the future.

The Asus P4S8X (SIS 648/963 chip set) fits this bill except for the Hyperthreading requirement. The P4S8X get a very good review from Motherboards.com. Does anyone have any experience with this MB? Any other suggestions of boards that fit all these requirements?

Thanks,

[Bill]

The Gigabyte GA-8INXP looks nice.

http://tw.giga-byte.com/products/8inxp.htm (\"http://tw.giga-byte.com/products/8inxp.htm\")

[Haydn]

I\'m using the ASUS P4PE board. Beware, there are many variations of this board. Mine has LAN, Serial ATA (with RAID), hyperthreading support, USB 2.0, 533 MHZ FSB, Firewire. The Intel 845PE chipset only supports 2 GB of RAM.

I purchased the motherboard for $145, P4 2.4 boxed processor (includes fan and 3 year warranty) for $192. Both from www.newegg.com (\"http://www.newegg.com\")

Checked the price on the processor today and it\'s on sale for $164 with free shipping!!

Newegg also has pretty good memory prices. You can get 1 GB of DDR 2700 (333) memory for between $160 for value memory to $250 for Corsair XMS memory (fewer clock cycles). Very few motherboards support SDRAM so plan on purchasing memory.

[Simon Ravn]

Try to get hold of ASUS\' new board, the P4SDX - that\'s what I am gonna buy as replacement board here - it should be out in the U.S. by now.

[Bill]

I see under “special features” that the P4SDX has Instant Music. Good nose Simon!

[csduke]

Thanks for all the info guys. Simon, this P4SDX looks like the next step - 4 GB of dual channel DDR/333! I think it has everything I want. It seems the web reviewer like the new SiS 655 chip set a lot.

Hydan, I have had good experiences with Newegg.com as well. I just purchased a WD 8MB Cache 120GB drive for $134 from them. Great price and service. I am looking at www.directron.com (\"http://www.directron.com\") A friend of mine uses them and they will assemble, install an OS and test a system of component you buy from them for $37. I don\'t mind self assembly but for $37 …

At first I was considering an inexpensive giga machine but seeing as I am taking delivery on the complete VSL and the eventual release of 3.0 (which I assume will allow more digital processing - more power), I decided to put a system together that is near the fastest and capable of near-future upgrade (memory size and type, HD protocol and processor (hyperthreading)).

I do have a DAW question for you guy. Is there a custom way to install XP that is best for a DAWs. I have not installed XP before and wondered what kind of options are available.

Also, serial ATA - nice fast interface but who is going to make a drive that takes advantage of it?

Thanks

[Simon Ravn]

csduke, I don\'t know about the special DAW installation on XP. Some time ago it was a rule to install in STANDARD PC mode instead of ACPI - a setting you can also change under XP after you have installed, although it\'s recommended to do during install. Something about pressing F6 - I never got it working:) But I have tried both ACPI and Standard PC and haven\'t noticed any difference so I just go with ACPI now.

Serial ATA - I think the new Seagate Barracuda V exists in a Serial ATA version.

[Bill]

I think the Seagate SATA is “on the verge”, rather than shipping. I’ve read that at this point, some of the standard ATA drives from WD and IBM still outperform the Seagate SATA.

WD has a SATA drive in the works called Raptor. Smaller capacities, but faster.

[Simon Ravn]

The biggest advantage with SATA seems to be the nice cables anyway:)

[§eth]

where in the heck are your guys seeing this new Asus board being sold? I can not find one online anywhere! also whats the cost? images/icons/tongue.gif

[Simon Ravn]

Seth, it might not be on sale yet - I just got the impression from the review(s) I read. It must be pretty close though.

[Haydn]

Maxtor has serial ATA drives and they end with MO on the model number. For example the 120 GB drive is 6Y120MO. These drives have the 8 MB buffers. Now if I can find it on sale!

[Scott Cairns]

I do have a DAW question for you guy. Is there a custom way to install XP that is best for a DAWs. I have not installed XP before and wondered what kind of options are available.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Craig, THe Nemesys site has a good article for XP optimisation;

http://www.nemesysmusic.com/pdf/optimizing-xp-and-2k.pdf (\"http://www.nemesysmusic.com/pdf/optimizing-xp-and-2k.pdf\")

Also try; http://www.musicxp.net/ (\"http://www.musicxp.net/\") - lot of good suggestions there.

Also, if you can, create a swap file on a seperate hard drive than your operating systems drive. I installed a Western Star Digital drive for my samples (became E: drive). On that I created a 2 gig partition for my swap file (became F: drive).

That has given me a HUGE performance boost. My machine shuts down in 5 seconds now. Before it took 23 seconds. (I have no life I know) images/icons/smile.gif

Also, go to add/remove programs > windows components. Remove things like games, paint, Windows movie maker and any other crap you are never going to use. This stuff is installed by default.

Cheers, Scott.

[csduke]

Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
The biggest advantage with SATA seems to be the nice cables anyway:) <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I wonder if there is a gigaAdvantage to SATA since giga seems to be all about seek time.

Fill me in here: If I send a note on to giga, giga, in tuen, initiates a disk access for that particular sample. Does it load the entire sample for that note or just part of it (32K, as in the buffer size allocted to each instrument)? I suddenly realized I am not clear on this mechanism and would appreciate a description. Thanks a lot!

[Scott Cairns]

It\'s my understanding that it loads part of it and streams from disk.

Also, Serial ATA is not as powerful as it is touted. Serial ATA 1 transfers data at 150mbps.
Not a huge leap in \"real world\" performance.

In fact, they were working on Serial ATA 2, 300mbps: BEFORE Serial ATA1 even got released -

When ATA 2 gets released hopefully THEN we will see start seeing some real action.


Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
The biggest advantage with SATA seems to be the nice cables anyway:) <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Simon is probably quite right - at least the cables are neater. images/icons/smile.gif

Regards, Scott.

[§eth]

i\'m just breezing through this but off hand wouldn\'t the Asus P4G8X be a better board than the P4S8X?

[Kenn159]

One thing that I have found consistant with the major releases of gigasample and giga studio over the years is that when a major release comes out it requires the latest and most state of the art computer to run.
For instance when the first version of gigastudio came out ,Nemesys was recommending a 800 mhz processor which was the fastest processor at that time.
So for that reason everyone should consider waiting until or just before the release of 3.0 before you build a computer for it .
I mean what if 3.0 doesnt come out until next fall, technology marches on and computers could be much different by them .
If not you risk the chance on building a current state of the art computer that could be either much cheaper later on for the same features or have featuresand abilities much beyond the one you want to buy now.
Just my two cent, Ken

[csduke]

Originally posted by §ETH:
i\'m just breezing through this but off hand wouldn\'t the Asus P4G8X be a better board than the P4S8X? <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Why?

[§eth]

i guess i was looking at the 4 gig ram compared to only 3. i do not know which is better between
the two types of ram offered on the boards but they both support DDR so i guess pretty much the same

[mitchb2]

Craig,

Please post and let us know how this works out.
I am overwhelmed by all the possibilities out there. As a result, I have put off building a new DAW.

I\'m working on a mix right now that is way too complex for my poor 800MHz DAW to handle.

I\'m curious: what case are you buying for your new machine? Will 350W do the trick?

[csduke]

Seth,
You are correct on both counts: It looks like no one sells the P4SDX in the US. Though reviewed, it doesn\'t show up on the Asus web set images/icons/confused.gif

Yes, the P4G8x looks very similar in capabilities. It uses the Intel 7205 Granite Bay chipset instead of the Sis 655. I\'m going to give it closer look.

Originally posted by mitchb2:
I\'m curious: what case are you buying for your new machine? Will 350W do the trick? <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I was looking at the Chieftec Winner WX-01BD (\"http://www.directron.com/wx01bd.html\") $52 on a friend\'s recommendation. It has the quick release drive feature (nice) and room for plenty of fans.

Check out Power Supply Comparison (\"http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20021021/index.html\") I think a good 300 W PSU may do the job in most cases (no pun). It\'s amazing how so many power supplies can\'t meet their specs (see article).
The Verax FSP300-60ATV look very solid (exceeded its 300W rating, quiet) per Tom\'s and only costs $27. Fortron/Verax (\"http://www.directron.com/fsp30060atv.html\") Its always smart to analyze the power requirements of your component in the end. The two often forgotten aspects of system design and system performance problems are power and cooling. I don\'t build a lot of PC but this is true in aerospace systems.


Originally posted by mitchb2:
Please post and let us know how this works out.
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I just purchased the complete VSL, 130 sq yards of high-end carpeting and 450 sq ft. of granite flooring for my house. It may take a few month to get over the sticker shock images/icons/shocked.gif

[csduke]

Originally posted by Kenn159:
One thing that I have found consistant with the major releases of gigasample and giga studio over the years is that when a major release comes out it requires the latest and most state of the art computer to run.
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">That\'s always the dilemma with PC purchase. One key, if you are focusing on a high-end system, is to choose a motherboard that can handle the future better. For example, I won\'t start off with a 3 GHz hyperthreading CPU because they cost a mint ($600+) but would upgrade later on when the price drops. Same with memory type and amount.

It would be interesting to list features that can make your system more upgradeable. Scott was talking about SATA-2 for example. Is that worth the wait and how long? I am presently concentrating on hyperthreading architecture support (which, according to reviewers, gives a real perfromance boost), higher clock speeds, dual channel DDR, and many gigs of RAM. I also believe that having things like LAN, firewire, video, etc. on the motherboard will greatly reduce the unmatched component problems. Still not sure if SATA is a big boost for Giga - access time, access time , access time.

[mitchb2]

Craig,

Doesn\'t the Asus mobo max out at 2.53GHz?

[csduke]

Originally posted by mitchb2:
Craig,
Doesn\'t the Asus mobo max out at 2.53GHz? <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Some do, while other ....

\"The P4G8X, leveraging Intel®\'s latest E7205 chipset, supports Intel®\'s Hyper-Threading Technology and processing power of 3.06GHz and beyond to bridge you to a new dimension of computing experience. With dual-channel DDR up to 4GB, the P4G8X provides the bandwidth for the most memory-intensive applications.\" Asus P4G8X Spec (\"http://www.asus.com/mb/socket478/p4g8x/overview.htm\")

[mitchb2]

I usually buy stuff from Mwave.
Their Asus mobo\'s consist of :
http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/ProdMOTHERBOARDBUNDLES-ABIT.hmx?UID=XX%2D9536156&CID=&updepts=BUNDLE&DNAME=%3Cb%3EMB+BUNDLE+w%2F+CPU%3C%2Fb%3E&Back=ProdMOTHERBOARDBUNDLES-ABIT.hmx? (\"http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/ProdMOTHERBOARDBUNDLES-ABIT.hmx?UID=XX%2D9536156&CID=&updepts=BUNDLE&DNAME=%3Cb%3EMB+BUNDLE+w%2F+CPU%3C%2Fb%3E&Back=ProdMOTHERBOARDBUNDLES-ABIT.hmx?\")

Holy crap, that\'s a long link!

Anyway, they install the RAM, CPU, fan and test it all for $9.

But which of these mobo\'s to get? They baffle me! I threw the BE7 in my shopping cart just for the heck of it (to see my running $$ total), but I don\'t know enough about it.

[csduke]

Originally posted by mitchb2:
I usually buy stuff from Mwave.
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I followed Mike harper\'s link to these barebone systems:
http://www.mpcomp.com/bbpage.htm (\"http://www.mpcomp.com/bbpage.htm\")

I like the:
Intel P4 2.4GHz, 533 FSB, ASUS P4PE/L,
XP, 1 GB 266 MHz DDR,
floppy, DVD, video, LAN, 40 GB HD,
400 W PSU,
Upgradable to 3.0 GHz Hyperthreading and 2 GB,
built and tested for $582
Nice link Mike.

[mitchb2]

I think I\'m going with the ASUS P4S8x, a 2.4GHz P4, and a Gig of ram.

I hope It\'s the right choice.