Music Based OS?

[jmpaquette]

I began writing a response to the latest posts to "Where we're at . . . " and realized that this might just want to be a thread of its own. There was some good input to the idea of Linux and/or other (alternative) Operating Systems dedicated to Music Creation, and I'd like to see where it might go.

My response:

what kind of computers run Linux? i have never seen a Linux computer or known anyone who has one. to be honest, i don't think Linux is real. its a big joke and the whole world is in on it except me.
That was a week ago last Saturday, right? (April 1st.) Unless you're serious, and you really don't know anyone running an "ix" OS.

"Linux" is a double-edged sword. While it's an incredibly flexible and efficient operating system, that very flexibility has led to a proliferation of variants that boggles the mind. Just to give you an idea of the possibilities: I've got some '386 and '486 machines running versions of Linux that literally outperform my Pentium machines running Windoze. Networking and file sharing support is built into all of these OSes. Obsolescence of machines isn't an "in your face" issue.

The other edge of the blade is that not all applications will run on all variants of the OS. Some need to be recompiled to run on a particular release. That leads to a need for some uniformity . . . which in turn invites that bane of all of us: proprietary approaches, closed systems, and monopolies. None of this contributes to the need expressed earlier -- for a turnkey system that a musician can plug into and make music.

I don't intend to present negativity here. Rather, I'm wanting to be realistic about the situation, and have people think about some of the implications. Someone could put together a barebones Linux core (using the term "Linux" generically here) that focused on audio/video production, as in the Musix GNU + Linux (https://www.musix.org.ar/wiki/index.php/What_tasks_can_I_make) that Gary cited. But then we would all need to come together as a collective . . . people on this Forum and most other A/V forums . . . to vote with our wallets for all of the relevant software and hardware vendors to provide drivers for their devices that would work in our Wonder_OS.

It seems to me that this is precisely what fostered this thread [EDIT: the Where We are At thread] in the first place: something got put out there that wasn't ready for Prime Time. We were waiting for some updates that Gary was trying to provide; the people who were responsible for the interface itself didn't quite have it right in a way that would work for everyone, and some people were just plain left out in the cold (at least for the time being).

I think there is tremendous potential, and that what germancomponist asked for is possible. Under what conditions and through what circumstances that might evolve is the open question I'd put forth here.

Comments?

[Leaf]

It would be nice if the Linux community was at least partially made up of people who recognized that linux will continue to be completely useless to most people unless it moves into the mainstream by effecting user friendly GUIs on all the aps. Most people are not computer programmers and most people have no desire to spend countless hours becoming one. I have Debian Music Studio64, Musix, DeMudi, etc. and they are mostly worthless.

[Leaf]

I have high praise for aps like openoffice, gimp photo editor, K3B for burning cd's and dvd's, and most of the text editors, but those music aps are ridiculous with the exception of hydrogen, they are usually much more trouble than they are worth.

An ap for writing movie scripts for mac or windows called MovieMagic Screenwriter, if you know how to write a movie script, you just install it and start writing. You can read the manual if you want, but you can finish and polish a script without doing that, and when you do read it make sense and is written in everyday English, or whatever language you'll be using.

A Garritan product or Finale, for mac or windows, not only works easily for the musician, but also for someone like me who is just learning. You have to read the manual but the manual is readable and the GUIs are friendly and intuitive. These are good examples that should be followed by those making aps for Linux.

[fastlane]

Possibly OSX and Windows Vista are going to be the last non internet based OS for the masses. The PC will be a replaced by internet modules. Possibly even the higher end of things like music and graphics will also be internet based. I think it will be totally different from what we can project out but I think words like operating system and application will be obsolete. They may be powering everything down in the engine room but us passengers won't be concerned with them.

Instead of creating music with applications and libraries you and other users if so desired might sit in front of a holographic stage and present your ideas to cyber musicians and singers. Maybe one could be right down on the stage with virtual reality technology. You could create a musical, ect and then present it to a world wide audience.

Beam me up Scotty. ~|

[LFO]

I have high praise for aps like openoffice, gimp photo editor, K3B for burning cd's and dvd's, and most of the text editors, but those music aps are ridiculous with the exception of hydrogen, they are usually much more trouble than they are worth.

An ap for writing movie scripts for mac or windows called MovieMagic Screenwriter, if you know how to write a movie script, you just install it and start writing. You can read the manual if you want, but you can finish and polish a script without doing that, and when you do read it make sense and is written in everyday English, or whatever language you'll be using.

A Garritan product or Finale, for mac or windows, not only works easily for the musician, but also for someone like me who is just learning. You have to read the manual but the manual is readable and the GUIs are friendly and intuitive. These are good examples that should be followed by those making aps for Linux.

Leaf,
Have you taken a look at Reaper? http://www.cockos.com/
Looks are always subjective, however Reaper delivers the goods, at least for audio recording. The MIDI side still has catching up to do, however the speed that bugs are fixed and features are added is impressive. Reaper will run on Linux, Windows and OSX. There is a guy on the Cubase forum that had it running on a USB flash drive!

I've used the program a bit and I can say that it is easy to use and is easy on system requirements. It is worth taking a look at.

I like Linux, heck it is what I make a living off of, however it will be a long time before it could be a contender for mainstream DAW hosting. This is not a technical statement, it is a market statement. Getting everything ported to Linux that is needed to run the typical DAW is a tough sell at best. If it did happen I would not complain, however I have to say that Windows ain't broke so I have no intention on fixin' it. :)

-Kevin

[Tony Monaghan]

I've been using Linux for years both in a professional capacity (as well as other unices), and at home. The only reason I keep a windows PC is to run some of the music software I use, and were these available for Linux I would long since have abandoned Windows for the pile of crap that it is and that goes for Mac's too.

I have high hopes that Linux will become a viable music production platform in the near future and there are already several projects out there with this aim, check out Studio to Go here http://www.ferventsoftware.com/as one example. Also this excellent article http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2005/07/linux_and_audio_production_sim.html

Some comparisons for the interested:

http://www.michaelhorowitz.com/Linux.vs.Windows.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/10/06/linux_vs_windows_viruses/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Windows_and_Linux

[Leaf]

Leaf,
Have you taken a look at Reaper? http://www.cockos.com/
Looks are always subjective, however Reaper delivers the goods, at least for audio recording. The MIDI side still has catching up to do, however the speed that bugs are fixed and features are added is impressive. Reaper will run on Linux, Windows and OSX. There is a guy on the Cubase forum that had it running on a USB flash drive!

I've used the program a bit and I can say that it is easy to use and is easy on system requirements. It is worth taking a look at.

I like Linux, heck it is what I make a living off of, however it will be a long time before it could be a contender for mainstream DAW hosting. This is not a technical statement, it is a market statement. Getting everything ported to Linux that is needed to run the typical DAW is a tough sell at best. If it did happen I would not complain, however I have to say that Windows ain't broke so I have no intention on fixin' it. :)

-KevinThanks, Keven! I just downloaded the newest version and going to try it out.

David:hp:

[FireGS]

Musix OS

(MXOS) for short

Ill start it. I have lots of friends in the linux community. Who's with me?


Only problem, getting M-Audio to develop Linux drivers. :mad: Same with Tascam. :mad: :mad:

Maybe with some of the Linux Gurus here, and the FreeBob people, and all the linux people I know, something may come of it! *() *()

[FireGS]

Well, I think its obvious that Pro Tools isnt going to happen soon, nor would many other DAWs, but there are Native Linux DAWs out there.

http://ardour.org/ for instance.
http://www.energy-xt.com/xt2.php also.
http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/ as well.

As for VST Support, there already is. JOST for one, which has NO WINE dependencies. http://www.anticore.org/jucetice/?page_id=4 as well as FST and DSSI. ITS POSSIBLE MAN!! :p :p

There is a lot of support for Firewire Audio Hardware. We need to give the guys at FreeBoB and FFADO some time. FFADO looks promising. http://www.ffado.org/

As for ASIO, JACK supports it.

There is hope, just not for any of the Mainstream DAWs. Is that bad? Well, if you don't like to adapt, sure, but if the performance under MXOS will be better than windows or mac, I dont see a reason not to give it a try.

Also, would it be better to base this Distro off an existing one, or start from scratch?

[jmpaquette]

There is hope, just not for any of the Mainstream DAWs. Is that bad? Well, if you don't like to adapt, sure, but if the performance under MXOS will be better than windows or mac, I dont see a reason not to give it a try.[\quote]
We might be (pleasantly!) surprised to find the grassroots level of support from the minions who do the bulk of the gruntwork behind the mainstream DAWs.:D
[quote]Also, would it be better to base this Distro off an existing one, or start from scratch? Great question. To be practical, the Distro would have to be the most open, and the one with the least commercial/proprietary "hooks" into it. I think that means beginning dialogue with the volunteer contributors to major open source projects.

Another question is focus: If the project aims for the greatest flexibility for musical production, does it focus on transparency for the end user, or openness for technically-minded tweakers? Where do you "split the difference?" How steep a learning curve is imposed on a new user?

The dialogue is interesting. *()*()*()*()

Joe

[Tony Monaghan]

Musix OS

(MXOS) for short

Ill start it. I have lots of friends in the linux community. Who's with me?


Only problem, getting M-Audio to develop Linux drivers. :mad: Same with Tascam. :mad: :mad:

Maybe with some of the Linux Gurus here, and the FreeBob people, and all the linux people I know, something may come of it! *() *()

Sam, count me in. I've already been giving this some thought and have been working on creating my own distro from the ground up. When I was using an M-Audio Delta 44 I had working Linux drivers which appeared to be a clone of the Windows version complete with GUI so that's a start.

[FireGS]

AFAIK, Linux supports 64 bit right off the bat. Wouldnt that make their job easier when porting to Linux? :wow:


Someone beat us to it.

http://64studio.com/

But to be fair, I use Ardour, and its still in production. It's been chosen as a project for Googles Summer of Code:

"Google announced their decisions regarding this year’s Summer of Code. The Ardour project has been awarded 2 projects, which are:

MIDI editing
by Dave Robillard, Carleton University, Ottawa (mentored by Paul Davis). Dave picked the short straw and will be working 27 hours a day to implement every item of MIDI editing functionality known to man.

N.M panning
by Christian Muise, Carleton University, Ottowa (mentored by Jesse Chappell). Christian will be working on adding back end support for more traditional multispeaker panning systems (like 5.1, 10.2 and so forth) along with a GUI to control it."

Hmm.

Lookie. http://ardour.org/files/main-screenshot-big.png


Also, VST Enabler. http://audacityteam.org/vst/ )(~


Basically, we should be looking for an alternative at the moment. Ports of Cubase or others will be hard to get. Ardour is very promising.

[Tony Monaghan]

well, looks like it has already been done right enough, I'm downloading 64studio right now to try it out.

Here's another thought. The Muse Receptor is basically a linux box working as a plugin player. I wonder if it would be possible to build a Linux PC that works exactly the same way. I can't afford a Receptor but a cheap Linux PC clone would suit me just fine.