recording on a dual core machine

[Kaj Sundblom]

I posted this on the Cubase forum with no luck, so I try it here:
Since buying a new computer I´m experiencing a weird problem.It´s an Intel 6600@2.40Ghz, 2GB of RAM, running Cubase SX3 with M-Audio Firewire 410 as soundcard.Everything works just fine-except for one thing: When recording audio I get the fryingpan syndrome-crackles, sizzles, whatever you wanna call it.No problems with softsynths (midi) or importing audio.It´s just the recording that doesn´t work.I have two internal SATAs, the mobo is an MSI P965 platinum and of course the soundcard is firewire.Is this the problem?

[Richard Berg]

The 965 is a very solid chipset. Your problem almost certainly lies in the drivers for your audio interface.

[Kaj Sundblom]

Ok, thanks.So if M-audio finally get their Vista-drivers ready maybe those will work?I´m still on XP SP2.

[robh]

A shot in the dark here.

Try going into the M-Audio control panel and increase the buffer size.

And I assume you are using the ASIO drivers in Cubase?

Rob

[Kaj Sundblom]

I raised the Asio buffer size to 1024, didn´t help one bit.And it works perfectly on my old one-core Dell machine.That´s why I thought it might be the firewire bus.Or the Pci-bridge.
thanks for trying.

[Csaba Huszty]

You may want to try to connect your sound module with a different FireWire card because sometimes, integrated chipsets (on motherboards) and drivers do not work very well together.

[Haydn]

Most FireWire soundcards recommend a FireWire card with a Texas Instruments chipset. What are you using for your FireWire interface?

Jim

[Kaj Sundblom]

I´ve put in the firewire adapter card I had in the Dell (That´s a P4 cpu 2.66 Ghz with a uh..Dell mobo).Same result.Works there, not here.I´m not sure about the chipset, it seems to be a Via VT6306.But why would the FireWire 410 accept it on the one-core pc?
The integrated FireWire controller (on the P965) is a VIA VT6307.

[Hannes_F]

Maybe watch the cpu load of the cores. Whenever one of them hits the 100 % I get crackles, no matter how low the load on the others is.

Hannes

[Kaj Sundblom]

The CPU load is 2-3 %, more or less evenly distributed

[Reegs]

It could even be the firewire cable that is adding crap to the line. Is it one of those high quality gold plated thingies? If not, try a different cable and see if the results are any different.

Reegs

[Kaj Sundblom]

Nope, it´s not the cable.(Tried a couple)

[Richard Berg]

It's obvious the 410 drivers have a concurrency bug. You can confirm this by disabling one of the CPU cores in the BIOS (assuming that's an option).

[Kaj Sundblom]

I disabled one of the cores in BIOS and guess what: It didn´t help.

[robh]

You probably checked this already - how do the recording levels in the M-audio control panel look, are they maxing out?

Rob

[DrXparaMental]

I disabled one of the cores in BIOS and guess what: It didn´t help.

What is the specific model of the computer you have? I went through a very similar problem recently and may be able to help you here.

Jeff

[Richard Berg]

Interesting. I wonder what else might be different between the two machines. You used the same Firewire card, right? When you disabled 1 core, did you change to a single-processor HAL or not?

[DrXparaMental]

Interesting. I wonder what else might be different between the two machines. You used the same Firewire card, right? When you disabled 1 core, did you change to a single-processor HAL or not?


Thank you RB for helping me to better understand the dual core/VST quandary I put forth in the other thread. If this person's dilemma is due to a Ricoh or similar chipset, there is NO hope as far as firewire is concerned. The current Dell Inspiron laptops are absolutely incompatible with audio firewire interfaces. I tried Presonus, M-Audio & Motu in an effort to "over come". There is excellent and well documented information on the web concerning this problem. I spent 2 weeks trying to figure this out including researching everything from switching OSs, internal variable speed control switching to IRQ configuration, to practically back engineering a UFO in an attempt to understand this issue. I finally did over come however. I sent the Dell back. There are several other manufacturer's machines that contain these audio firewire incompatible chipsets. None of them work.

[Kaj Sundblom]

Interesting. I wonder what else might be different between the two machines. You used the same Firewire card, right? When you disabled 1 core, did you change to a single-processor HAL or not?
No, I didn´t and I´m not sure about how to do that.In the device manager?

[Kaj Sundblom]

What is the specific model of the computer you have? I went through a very similar problem recently and may be able to help you here.

Jeff
This is a not a brand computer, I think the specs are in my first post.

[Kaj Sundblom]

Thank you RB for helping me to better understand the dual core/VST quandary I put forth in the other thread. If this person's dilemma is due to a Ricoh or similar chipset, there is NO hope as far as firewire is concerned. The current Dell Inspiron laptops are absolutely incompatible with audio firewire interfaces. I tried Presonus, M-Audio & Motu in an effort to "over come". There is excellent and well documented information on the web concerning this problem. I spent 2 weeks trying to figure this out including researching everything from switching OSs, internal variable speed control switching to IRQ configuration, to practically back engineering a UFO in an attempt to understand this issue. I finally did over come however. I sent the Dell back. There are several other manufacturer's machines that contain these audio firewire incompatible chipsets. None of them work.
The chipset is a Via on the firewire card, and the integrated (mobo) chipset is another Via.

[DrXparaMental]

This is a not a brand computer, I think the specs are in my first post.

In this particular case specs are truly irrelevant. What BRAND or Manufacturer is the firewire chipset? Did you assemble the computer yourself?

Using various expresscard firewire (Belkin, etc.) adapters will avail no good as well. Does your computer have a PCMCIA slot or Express or both??

Is this a laptop? I assumed it was because of your reference to two "internal" satas. This is honestly not a good idea to begin with in a laptop as it generates too much heat. Especially if both are 7200 rpm drives.

Jeff

[Kaj Sundblom]

It´s not a laptop, and I had it built for me.The chipset is made by Via.

[DrXparaMental]

It´s not a laptop, and I had it built for me.The chipset is made by Via.

I will do some research Kaj. I KNOW from first hand experience how frustrating this can be. I drove the poor people at guitar center insane with my returns and BS. I still think however that the issue is one that they should have been able to advise me of anyhow. I went in in the first place and said. "look, when it comes to computer audio I am a total moron". "I must rely on your knowledge". Naturally they knew enough to recommend the top dollar firewire interfaces like Motu & Presonus.

[Richard Berg]

Sorry to say I won't be much help here. Kernel mode is a "dark art" most software developers know very little about, myself included. And unlike most other parts of the software landscape, it's still as difficult now as it was 20 years ago. Which is why finding quality drivers continues to be so important yet so frustrating.

The hardware staff at M-Audio are your best hope for technical support.

[Haydn]

M-Audio recommends FireWire cards using Texas Instruments chipsets. There's quite a few posts on the internet with various FireWire cards including the M-Audio having issues with VIA chipsets.

Jim

[Hannes_F]

Maybe have a look here:

http://www.rme-audio.com/english/techinfo/fw800alert.htm

[DrXparaMental]

Maybe have a look here:

http://www.rme-audio.com/english/techinfo/fw800alert.htm

It's a HUGE problem. That's why I went with an E-MU 1616m for the time being after being beat to a pulp via the firewire issue. Not because it's the absolute best (although it's damn good) but there are zero compatibility issues with PCMCIA slots and it's throughput is still faster than 1394a or b by a very real margin. The real issue (seems!) to boil down to the motherboard's receptacle configuration. That's why it's really NOT a matter of just using TI or NEC chipsets. If that were the case just using an adapter with a TI chipset would be sufficient to solve the problem. As MR. Berg points out, it's ALL due to a lack of comprehensive driver support. Whereby the various specialized non commodity interface developers find the broad spectrum driver development task insurmountable. This being because of the large scale quantum leaps in what is "today's industry standard" with respect to commercial computer hardware configuration. If I wear loaded (wealthy) to the point of money being no object, I would push hard for the development of an affordable Expresscard interface technology because in terms of throughput speed & efficiency, Expresscard eats Firewire between snacks. Facing facts the whole portability factor that firewire 600 boasts is a joke to begin with.

a) What are you looking to do, record natural sound samples for breakfast cereal commercials?

b) If your looking for portability, why not invest in a good light weight DC storage pack? The battery pack will out live your laptop's DC facility by at least 5 times over.

Just some thoughts.

[coretex]

Hello.

A friend of mine have the EXACT same problem. A 6300 dual core cpu with an msi P965 Neo2.

Probably the same soundcard as well, at least m-audio firewire.

Works fine on his single cored amd 3000+, but crackles on his dual core 6300. But only when recordning. VSTi's and imports, works fine.

We've tried different audio recording programs (Cubase SX3, Sound Forge, even windows sound recorder), But nothing works.

Some posts recommend buying another firewire interface? But guess what, recordning with the internal realtek sound card gives the very same results.

Any other suggestions, welcome.

[coretex]

Could a firewire-400 only controller solve the problem?

[Haydn]

If he's using the onboard FireWire port, then there's a good chance this is causing the issue. Most FireWire audio cards require a Texas Instruments chipset as I mentioned in another thread. These are usually the boards that are $30 and up, not the cheapy boards. Most companies recommend FireWire 400 controller card.

I did quite a bit of research on FireWire cards and read through pretty every bit of documentation on RME, MOTU and M-Audio's websites and they agreed with the above.

I ended up with an EMU 1212M PCI card which is really all I need for my setup. It has worked perfectly on my Core 2 Duo system. Great latency, low CPU usage and no pops and clicks.

Jim

[coretex]

here's some other threads concerning the firewire-410 and crackling audio

http://forum.macworld.se/index.php?showtopic=38056&st=0&gopid=543690&#entry543690

http://forum.macworld.se/index.php?showtopic=48235

Mac users get the same problem. USING WINDOWS XP ON THEIR MACS!
Where's the friggin problem?!?!?!

[DrXparaMental]

Could a firewire-400 only controller solve the problem?

What is the exact model of the computer?

[mm25]

Hi, I have a similar machine and having the same problem:
Intel Core2Duo E6600
MSI P965 Platinum
2GB RAM OCZ
...and M-Audio Firewire 410.
No matter I use the onboard 1394 port, or a PCI card with VIA VT6306 chipset, there are pops clicks and cracks when I use the unit for recording.
It works fine for playback....

[mm25]

Hi everybody, with this problem.
It seems to be fixed with a Texas chipset firewire adapter.

(in my case SIIG, in the list recommended by M-Audio).

I have made little test, and at the moments, noise seems to be gone.

Bye

[bellfree]

Hello, I have no personal experience with this problem, but a couple of people on the presonus forum have gotten decent results by using a pci express firewire card rather than a pci card. You have turned off networking.

[Andrew1976]

I have managed perfect results using a Dell 640m (e1405) with a Ricoh firewire chipset and an Echo AudioFire 4 audio interface.

Only had to disable the DVD drive (?) for perfect playback. Recording was fine with everything enabled - even wireless networking.

Hope that helps ...

:)

[milton.furtado]

Hi everybody, with this problem.
It seems to be fixed with a Texas chipset firewire adapter.

(in my case SIIG, in the list recommended by M-Audio).

I have made little test, and at the moments, noise seems to be gone.

Bye

I´m with the same problem... I have a MSI P965 Platinum. But I cant find a firewire adapter here in Brazil.

This change really solve your problem?

Searching the google, the information its that this device was discontinued. Is this right? In your dealer you still find this adapter? If yes, could you send one to me here in Brazil? :o

I have a recording studio and dont know what to do anymore...

Anyway... thanks, for while...

[Trackfan]

Are you using direct monitoring? What is your Bios PCI latency setting? I am unsure whether firewire is impacted by bus latency or not but with this PCI set-up, reducing buffer to 32 from it's 64 default timing caused hell in Cubase. With heavier projects I generally raise E-mu ASIO from 5 to 7-8 ms. Larger buffer has not caused issues for me.

(Using Intel 955 and 975 X chips and am eyeballing P35/ICH9 to get 'current' ...as they say, all it takes is money....:wow:)

Frank