Vote for the Orchestration Challenge 12!

[Garritan]

It's time to vote in the Orchestration Challenge 12! )(~

This Challenge has been a very lively one! We received twelve entries in this round! The choices are:

Entry 1 - http://www.wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry01_Chall12.mp3
Entry 2 - http://www.wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry02_Chall12.mp3
Entry 3 - http://www.wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry03_Chall12.mp3
Entry 4 - http://www.wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry04_Chall12.mp3
Entry 5 - http://www.wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry05_Chall12.mp3
Entry 6 - http://www.wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry06_Chall12.mp3
Entry 7 - http://www.wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry07_Chall12.mp3
Entry 8 - http://www.wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry08_Chall12.mp3
Entry 9 - http://www.wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry09_Chall12.mp3
Entry 10 - http://www.wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry10_Chall12.mp3
Entry 11 - http://www.wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry11_Chall12.mp3
Entry 12 - http://www.wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry12_Chall12.mp3




Many thanks to Randy for writing the theme for this round. And an excellent one at that!. Thanks to Sean for organizing this. And a big thanks to all the participants. )(~

We'll keep the voting open for about two weeks.

Have fun and good luck!

Gary Garritan

[SeanHannifin]

Many thanks, Gary! :D

[Leaf]

They all sound the same.:confused:






:D Just joking, someone posted that comment in the last challenge, it cracked me up, so i wanted to keep it alive.

[wrayer]

Just a point: I can't seem to download 3,7,11 or 12?

[RichR]

I was albe to downloaded them all. Now, for the really hard part. Decisions, Decisions..... Great Job everyone!

[loydb]

First pass listen got me down to 6 entries.

Second pass has me down to 4, all of which I really like. I'm going to do the third pass when I get back from lunch with fresh ears

The overall quality of these is really amazing, makes me wish I could participate!

loyd

[trentpmcd]

We'll keep the voting open for about two weeks.


2 weeks might be a hair long - how about if we vote on the 12 entries for challenge #12 within 12 days? Maybe have voting end at 12 noon (Orcas Island time) on Sunday 5/20 and talk about winner on that Sunday's chat?

Or does ending at 12 in 12 days with our vote on 12 entries for Challenge #12 just seem like too many, well, you know?

[loydb]

I listened to my 4 finalists about 6 times each before I chose. Some really nice work here.

[etLux]

Remember everybody, vote early, vote often!

David
www.DavidSosnowski.com
.

[garymosse]

Some great entries here. I would say that Ravel & Debussy still live....
Unfortunately, my writing is stopped because of my upgrade to
Mac Intel...
Gary

[rbowser-]

Gary--You're so right, that Debussy and Ravel are alive and well.---SOrry you're still messed up with your "uprgrade"--Dang!

ANd now--I gotta quote myself, what I said at the end of the thread where this challenge started--I'm still this stoked, and have No idea how I'll vote.


--12 for #12--!

OK--I'm just pretty much blown away by this outpouring of music. ~|

I've been impressed with this Garritan group ever since joining last November, and it's a constant joy that I'm now part of it--but I haven't ever been as thoroughly excited and in Awe of what happens on these Forums than I am now after hearing these 12 FANTAStic pieces of music!

To hear this outburst of agile creativity, sparked by the little experimental motif I came up with makes for one of those magical moments that happens once in awhile and just makes me HAPPY TO BE ALIVE--!!

Rule change--all pieces are hereby chosen as The Winners. OK?

Randy B.--wowed in Oregon
(rbowser)

[JohnnyP]

Well this is all great stuff!

I have questions on the voting, perhaps it's assumed but i don;t know:o

Can you vote for more than one? Can you vote more than one time? If you are a participant can you vote?

Great stuff. It's making me think a lot harder and broader.:)

[rbowser-]

Good questions, Johnny

I'm jumping in here to answer since I'm here seeing your post, but Sean is The Man In Charge.

You can only vote for one entry.

Once you've voted, a pop-up will say "Um, you've already voted buddy!"--and so it's impossible to vote again. :)

Participants may vote also.

These orchestrations are indeed great humm?

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[SeanHannifin]

Participants can vote. :)

You can only vote once, but I'm not sure how many votes you actually have since it looks like there are check mark buttons instead of the radio buttons, or whatever you call 'em. Sometimes in the past the poll was set up to allow 3 votes per person. Since I have yet to make a voting decision, I'm not sure what will happen if you vote for more than one in this particular poll...

[wrayer]

Wow, what great examples of diversity. I haven't voted yet, I have an entry, but there are sooo many good ones, I may vote for one other than mine (is there a rule that I have to vote for myself?) Congratulations to all the contestants.

[Sean Damon]

I just spent part of this evening listening to all twelve Orchestral Challenge entries. It was a great pleasure. Know that I am very pleased to be associated with this community. You are my kind of people!

Sean

[trentpmcd]

Participants can vote. :)

You can only vote once, but I'm not sure how many votes you actually have since it looks like there are check mark buttons instead of the radio buttons, or whatever you call 'em. Sometimes in the past the poll was set up to allow 3 votes per person. Since I have yet to make a voting decision, I'm not sure what will happen if you vote for more than one in this particular poll...
I just voted and it let me vote for 3 (I didn't try 4, though I could have easily put down 6 or even 12!).

So, you can vote for at least 3 choices.

I don't know if you can go back once you voted and add more if you originally voted for only 1 or 2. Anybody know?

[rbowser-]

"...I just voted and it let me vote for 3..."

Well hush my mouth! That's surprising, Trent--Thanks for letting us know.

During the last challenge, this question came up, and the unequivicable answer was posted that we could only vote for One entry. I wonder why this would suddenly change-?

And also last time, after you had voted, when the thread was visited again there would be a message saying "you have already voted" so there was definitely no chance of voting again. I imagine that would be the same--otherwise someone could visit constantly and vote for the same entry over and over--problematic.

Interesting though---Voting for more than one sure makes it at least a Little easier to make decisions!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[wrayer]

Point of Reference: If you look at the bottom of the poll to the left you will see: "Multiple Choice Poll", so I guess that means we can make multiple choices.

[keithjfuller]

2 weeks might be a hair long - how about if we vote on the 12 entries for challenge #12 within 12 days? Maybe have voting end at 12 noon (Orcas Island time) on Sunday 5/20 and talk about winner on that Sunday's chat?

Or does ending at 12 in 12 days with our vote on 12 entries for Challenge #12 just seem like too many, well, you know?

i say we stop voting on december 12, 2012 at 12:12:12. that will give everyone a chance to vote, so i think its the only fair thing to do.

[rbowser-]

"...If you look at the bottom of the poll to the left you will see: 'Multiple Choice Poll'..."

I searched for that, and couldn't find it--until I clicked on the "view poll results" tab--There it is at the bottom. Hmmm, something else that's different this time. On the last challenge, one wasn't able to see what the results were until After voting--and that seems like a much better plan to me, so voting isn't possibly influenced by how others have voted before you. That's --odd, I think.

Having instructions about it being "multiple choice" would be more effective if that was visible right there in the voting window, seems to me.

Keith--hehe, good idea--keep it up until 2012, Dec 12 at 12:12:12. Maybe we Could make an actual decision (or two or three) by then!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[wrayer]

Keith--hehe, good idea--keep it up until 2012, Dec 12 at 12:12:12. Maybe we Could make an actual decision (or two or three) by then!

Randy B.
(rbowser)
I might be able to make up my mind by then, if I am still around...

[rbowser-]

SOMETHING IS WRONG


I haven't voted yet, but it's come to my attention in direct email, that one is able to vote for ALL of the entires if so inclined. --??

That doesn't make any sense.

This Challenge activity is done just for fun, but still there should be some sense and order to the process. Why the voting mechanism should operate differently for each challenge is peculiar, and being able to just check off all the entries obviously isn't the way it should work.

I think something has to be malfunctioning in this voting mechanism--That it needs to be re-set and then we start over.----At this point, the voting makes no sense!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[SeanHannifin]

I think voting still makes sense... aside from being inconsistent with previous challenges' voting stages, I don't think this method of multiple choice voting actually messes anything up. Voting for all the entries at once is essentially the same as not voting at all, so that's just a waste of a vote. A winner should still emerge properly from the current voting dynamics, though I suppose it might make a tie easier to emerge. Still, multiple entries were accepted this round so perhaps multiple choice voting is even an advantage?

Hmmm... what do y'all think? Should we see if we can start over again with single voting or just keep the current poll?

(Isn't voting for all the entries something people complain about wanting to do anyway? :D )

[rbowser-]

Hi, Sean

HUmm. Well, it doesn't make any sense to me, :confused: but other opinions are certainly possible.

You bet I think they should all WIIIIIinnnn! But, it's a contest event, and so that idealistic thing is of course impossible. Even though it's really tough to finally choose one as a personal fave, to me that's kind of the point of participating in a contest. If I go to a Miss America party, where guests try to pick the winner, it wouldn't work to say, "OH I vote for 5 girls because they're all great."--Ya know?

Well, it's a fun thing we're doing here. I don't mean to make a hassle out of it. I was just so positive that the poll mechanism must have gone haywire since it's working totally differently this time. It'll definitely make the results different than they would've been with one vote--but--There ya go!

Back to having fun. :)

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[rayzalaf]

I think voting still makes sense... aside from being inconsistent with previous challenges' voting stages, I don't think this method of multiple choice voting actually messes anything up. Voting for all the entries at once is essentially the same as not voting at all, so that's just a waste of a vote. A winner should still emerge properly from the current voting dynamics, though I suppose it might make a tie easier to emerge. Still, multiple entries were accepted this round so perhaps multiple choice voting is even an advantage?

Hmmm... what do y'all think? Should we see if we can start over again with single voting or just keep the current poll?

(Isn't voting for all the entries something people complain about wanting to do anyway? :D )
Well Sean, I disagree.

Mulitple choice voting is fine if you can vote 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.
If that is not possible then, one member one vote!
If one can't decide on a winning entry! tough!
Do you not think it may be an achievement for someone to be runner up or 3rd.
I'm not suggesting starting again, I just think it stinks. sorry!

Ray

[wrayer]

If I may be so bold:

Isn't this all so trivial? The fun is in doing the composition. Personnally, I don't care if I win or lose. Well, unless Garritan is going to pay the winner. But it's not a contest per se, it's a 'challenge' - who can come up with the best solution. Being a math teacher, I agree with Sean. The fact that you can vote for more than one entry does not alter the odds as to which one will be picked the most. It is inconsequential because the winning entry will stipp get picked more often, even if voters are selecting other compositions. Igt will still get the most votes. What you dilute are the 2nd 3rd or 4th places, which don't get a reward anyways.

If I buy a 100,000 lottery tickets, my chances of winning the lottery still have not improved drastically. I just spend more money.

[trentpmcd]

Hmmm, this is a toughie....

It'd be nice 1 vote per person, but how do we go back? Find out who voted and send a message - "Hey, there was a problem and you need to vote again"? What if they voted early because they knew they weren’t going to get another chance? I don’t want to throw away any of the votes from people who already voted, particularly if the only chose 1….

On the other hand, if we keep it as is we might get the "anti-voter" - somebody voting for 10 or 9 and purposefully snubbing an entry - not good.

I guess the most popular would still get the most votes, but…


Would they? Some people might not realize they can vote for more than one.
Not easy….

[wrayer]

Hmm, who ever wrote #12 might disaggree with you all!

[etLux]

If I buy a 100,000 lottery tickets, my chances of winning the lottery still have not improved drastically. I just spend more money.

Now you tell me.
.

[trentpmcd]

Changing the subject slightly – After Sean posted these in the other thread on Sunday I downloaded them all and burned them onto a CD. I’ve listened to the CD over a half a dozen times already… I really like these works. All are good and some are excellent.

No matter the outcome, there was some great music made for this little challenge. And I'm sure the people who entered were challenged and had fun being challenged.

[wrayer]

Now you tell me.
.

I tried, I know, doesn't work. Can I borrow a $1.00?

rofl

For the rest of you, it's not a serious contest, it's suppose to be fun. I have lost most of these, I don't care. Just glad to participate.

Let's see if #12 can maintain the lead!

By The Way: I am not #12

[rbowser-]

It's unfortunate that at least some people have become unhappy with the way this current challenge voting has developed.

We have an event on the forum that is intended as a fun way to interact. Without it being a life-or-death thing, we have the activity of challenging each other to orchestrate a theme.

It remains that the goal of participants is to make a good and captivating piece of music from the handful of notes given to them. It's not a "serious" contest--yet serious enough for people to spend quite a few hours in coming up with their entries.

The rest of us take a listen and vote for the piece that captivates us the most.

It's still a contest--just sans "prize."

To make it completely unclear that it's possible to vote more for one entry means that some people will be counted as single listeners--the ones who vote once. Others will in effect be counted as multiple listeners--those who vote for more than one entry.

In other words, when one figures out that he/she can vote for up to to ALL of the entries, that multiplies their voice--They become as many people as votes they cast, and that instantly makes the whole process skewed. One person casting multiple votes is still making those voting decisions from the view point of one person. Meanwhile, the person who logically assumed that only one vote is possible has asserted his tastes only once.

It may sound logical to say that it doesn't make a difference--that the accumulated votes will be counted and a winner announced, no matter how those votes were made--that disregards the fact that some voices (voters) were heard once while others were heard up to 12 times!

The results are Not the same as they would be as it's been in the past--certainly as in the last challenge, when it was explicitly explained that each person could cast only one vote.

To completely start over is probably not only impractical at this point, but could sour the fun spirit in which this was all intended.

Meanwhile, we have these various observations:

"...it's not a serious contest, it's suppose to be fun...."

"...Some people might not realize they can vote for more than one..."

"...I don’t want to throw away any of the votes from people who already voted, particularly if the only chose 1…"

"...Isn't this all so trivial? The fun is in doing the composition..."

All of which speaks to how I'm saying this has been an unexpected bring-down.

But some of the above quotes from people claiming to say the contest is not so important and even trivial, are still rather proudly proclaim in their signatures that they are winners of past competitions.----And that indicates that it really isn't so "trivial."

If I had control over this voting thread I would probably stop the current count, and calmly explain that it was a mistake. I would ask everyone to make the more difficult decision of choosing One entry on a new post--and then the results would be simple and straight forward. So many people vote and this becomes the consensus favorite among the entires. As it is, it's merely the unbalanced number of votes which include people who voted once and others who voted for between 2 and 12 entries. It Does skew the results because it's impossible for the results to represent a consensus of opinon.

It's unfortunate. sigh.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[rayzalaf]

I tried, I know, doesn't work. Can I borrow a $1.00?

rofl

For the rest of you, it's not a serious contest, it's suppose to be fun. I have lost most of these, I don't care. Just glad to participate.

Let's see if #12 can maintain the lead!

By The Way: I am not #12
Bill

In my usual inflammatory way, using the word “sucks” I appear to have caused some heated discussion on this voting thing. I am an entrant, I don’t care about winning because my entry is an unfinished piece. I agree, the voting system may have no effect on the result but, for you to suggest the challenge as merely a bit of fun seems strange as you’re proud enough to have challenge #10 winner as your signature.

Ray ( bad person)

[wrayer]

Bill

In my usual inflammatory way, using the word “sucks” I appear to have caused some heated discussion on this voting thing. I am an entrant, I don’t care about winning because my entry is an unfinished piece. I agree, the voting system may have no effect on the result but, for you to suggest the challenge as merely a bit of fun seems strange as you’re proud enough to have challenge #10 winner as your signature.

Ray ( bad person)

I beg forgiveness, my intent was to underscore that this discussion has affected the perception of the what the principle of the challenges was to this community. Yes, they are serious pieces of music with pride from each composer and his/her abilities being able to orchestrate a successful solution to a given melodic problem. But , beyond the success of winning, these are just contests of sharing abilities with this community. I have fixed my signature. Can we now stop this "flame war"?

[RichR]

I'm reserving my vote/votes until a final outcome to this discussion happens.

:confused:

[CBK780]

I too will reserve my vote but I just want to inject a bit of philosophy.

The submissions are really very good and there is a lot of interesting creativity in them all.

For the future, I really like the idea of being able to choose my favorite three. That allows me to recognize the ones that stand out without having to make an exclusionary choice.

Some elections work that way -- people vote for several (e.g.3) individuals on the slate and then the results are ranked.

In my philosophy (and in this I am at odds with many Americans) there is rarely a "best."

Charlie (just my .02)

[rbowser-]

Hi, Charlie--Really good thoughts, and I'm glad you posted them.

I want to take what you said at the end even further---To me, there is NEver a "best."

I hope this challenge event is still providing fun for everyone, despite confusion and hassles with inconsistent polling procedures and unclear rules.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[Kenny Long]

I coached YMCA teams for my six kids when they were growing up, and the league didn't keep an official score, but the kids always knew what the score was ~|. Along those same lines, "team trophies" were always a nice idea in concept, but they didn't really mean much to the kids. It meant a lot more to them to get recognized individually.

It is obvious by the number of votes cast and the number of people that have four votes that at least four people cast a vote for every entry :confused:. Isn't that kind of like giving out "team trophies" to the participants?

I agree that this is all primarily for fun, but it is a challenge and we are voting, so the votes should mean something right? If you can post multiple votes then they should be ranked, for example: I like these three entries, this one is good, this one is better and I like this one the best!

Winning a challenge such as this would personally mean a lot more to me if each individual only had a single vote.

As far as the entries go, this was a really tough choice. So many entries were able to take the whole tone melody and do so much with it. I had to make a road trip before I could complete my entry, but my attempts at this challenge sounded more like a derivitive of Wayne Shorter's "JuJu" ;) .

Cheers,
Kenny

[SeanHannifin]

What would voters (both those who have already voted and those who haven't) like to do at this point?

1) Just go along with the current poll and try to be less confusing about voting procedures in the future... or...

2) Scrap all the current votes and start a new poll?

[Kenny Long]

Hi Sean,

I would vote for #1 at this point as it appears there is a definate front runner and also a solid 2nd place entry.

Cheers,
Kenny

[rbowser-]

It would probably be messy and even more confusing to scrap the votes and start over.

But we Definitely need to be consistent on how these are conducted though. It doesn't make sense for the procedure to be different each time.

Probably the worst part about this set up right now is that you can't tell that you're able to vote for more than one entry when you look at the list. If you look at the poll results, it says at the bottom "multiple choice poll"--But that information should be on the actual voting page.

Kenny, it's far too early to say that there's an obvious first and second place entry--I remember clearly how during the last challenge, it looked like one piece would be winning, but then the voting became very unpredictable and my entry ended up winning. You never can tell!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[vivmarsh]

Sean - I voted only once because I thought that was all that was allowed, but I can see now how this got into such a mess ! Isn't it possible to sort out the one-vote voters from the multi-vote voters and ask only the multis to vote again ?

[SeanHannifin]

Sean - I voted only once because I thought that was all that was allowed, but I can see now how this got into such a mess ! Isn't it possible to sort out the one-vote voters from the multi-vote voters and ask only the multis to vote again ?

Unfortunately I don't think so... not without starting a completely new poll and just having everyone who's already voted re-vote. Voting is anonymous, so there's no way to know who voted for what or how many.

[ptram]

This time, even more than ever, it was a very hard challenge. There were so many very good pieces. Two of them, actually, grabbed my attention for how they showed understanding of the original intention (reviving the spirit of Debussy through his exatonal scale). I voted for one of them, but could have voted for the other as well.

Paolo

[rbowser-]

"...I voted for one of them, but could have voted for the other as well..."

This voting mess is still bugging me. If Paolo and Viv had realized they could have voted for more than one piece, the count would be different--it's as simple as that.

It never would have occurred to me that we could vote for more than one--Still cannOt figure out why this polling mechanism was suddenly different, and then there was no explanation on the page itself that it was a multiple choice poll.

OOOOH well!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[Kenny Long]

Kenny, it's far too early to say that there's an obvious first and second place entry--I remember clearly how during the last challenge, it looked like one piece would be winning, but then the voting became very unpredictable and my entry ended up winning. You never can tell!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

Haha, of course you are right Randy! I'm one of those folks that turns off the election results after 30% of the votes are in, then I'm suprised when I wake up in the morning to different results :D . You think one would learn, but its hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

What I meant was that those two that are leading at the moment would probably be the most effected by starting over...

Sean, Gary, and for this challenge Randy, thanks for putting this together and keeping this going. This is a wonderful challenge!

To all the competitors, congradulations on a job well done. Every one of these compositions has something special and unique to offer. Listening to these compositions is a humbling experience for me.

Cheers,
Kenny

[Richard N.]

These challenges really are less about "winning" than "having a go" at creating some music from a set theme.

The enjoyment comes from developing your own entry, and then comparing your own entry to those submitted by others.

The selection of a winner is really just a mechanism by which the next theme composer is chosen.

The rules/procedures have organically evolved from the first challenge which was very simple - as and when a new question arises [variance from the set theme, entering your own challenge, multiple entries for the same challenge etc., etc., ] the rules are developed.

I say we stick with the voting for this round and tighten up the voting procedure for the next round.

[trentpmcd]

So far 23 different people have voted. Looking at Sean's web site, for the most part about 35 people voted per challenge. One challenge looks like closer to 60 people (just guesstimating - I didn't add it up). So..... it looks like, if the challenge is average we are over half done with the voting. If we are on the high end, we are over a third done. If we break all records in the number of people coming out to vote we are still looking at, what? An even 3rd? Maybe as much as a quarter done? A fifth? Maybe more than a hundred people will show up to vote, but I won't hold my breath...

What I am trying to say is this - if the problem was discovered early on I think we should have stopped the vote and started over. Since we are several days into it and possibly a significant portion of the way through the voters, well…. It just doesn’t seem like we need to at this point….

If we did start over, I personally wouldn’t mind, but I think the composer of #12 would have to be asked (off line by Sean) – that person has the most to loose….

[Leaf]

I think everyone can just vote for the one you like best, and problem solved. Or if you like several vote for all or draw straws. I voted for number eight because i pulled it's straw out of the three I liked best, but it was tough narrowing down to three, because i liked all of them. To all the entants, i say well done, very impressive work. I didn't get in on this challenge, but hope to make something worthy next time around.

[SeanHannifin]

So far 23 different people have voted. Looking at Sean's web site, for the most part about 35 people voted per challenge. One challenge looks like closer to 60 people (just guesstimating - I didn't add it up).

I know in the past at least one of the polls was set up to accept 3 votes from each person, which didn't seem to cause any squabbles, so that was probably the one with 60 votes; the average number of actual voters indeed tends to be around 35, so at least over half of the people who are going to vote have probably already voted...

[wrayer]

Well, either declare a winner, or re-vote. But let's get off this topic. It looks like 12 has won. So....?

[trentpmcd]

Well, either declare a winner, or re-vote. But let's get off this topic. It looks like 12 has won. So....?
I think the topic is dead - we are continuing the vote.

Typically the vote for challenges is 2 weeks so we still have a week of voting to go. I'm not really sure when the voting will end: earlier I suggested Sunday the 20th at noon as a logical cut off. In the mean time, anyone who hasn't voted should vote. I doubt with 12's lead that there will be an upset, but you never know.....

[rbowser-]

I believe you're right, Trent, that as Gary originally announced, the poll is meant to run for two weeks as usual. The poll went up on the 7th, so it would end the 21st, or the day before as you suggested.

Despite the surprise and resulting confusion of the poll operating differently this time, there's still a good time to be had listening to the entries and I trust that the people who took the time to arrange the theme enjoyed their time working on it.

One entry does have a substantial lead, but there will be more votes, and I remember during the last challenge that the tally kept changing dramatically during the final week.

Focusing on the good part of this event, I have to say again how remarkably good all of these arrangements are. It makes me prouder than ever to say I'm part of such a creative community.

Onwards!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[CBK780]

I must say that I am still agonizing about my vote.

#12 is terrific but so is #8. There is not a bad one in the bunch!

But I was thinking -- if you took Randy's original theme and then string the 12 enteries end to end you would have a great concert piece -- Theme and Variations.

Does anyone remember the collaborative book Naked Came the Stranger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_Came_the_Stranger)?

[RichR]

wrayer said:

Well, either declare a winner, or re-vote. But let's get off this topic. It looks like 12 has won. So....?

Hey, hold on. I haven't voted yet! I'm waiting to see what the outcome of the voting style is! Can I assume that this round will be done as is and no alterations? I do't care one way or the other. I just want to vote and make sure my vote will be counted and not thrown out for a recount.

[trentpmcd]

wrayer said:


Hey, hold on. I haven't voted yet! I'm waiting to see what the outcome of the voting style is! Can I assume that this round will be done as is and no alterations? I do't care one way or the other. I just want to vote and make sure my vote will be counted and not thrown out for a recount.

I think we have all come to an agreement (at least I haven't heard otherwise lately) - we continue as we have been going. Even if we wanted, it's way too late to turn back now.

So... voting style is up to you - vote for one if you feel that is best (a lot have). Vote for 2 or 3 if you really can't make up your mind or think 2 or 3 really deserve your vote. Vote for 12 if you want to throw away your vote - it helps no one and hurts no one.

[YBaCuO]

I barely have time to listen to all these great compositions (it sounds much too cheesy to merely call them orchestrations).

The two impressionistic pieces, No 7 & 12, really stood out - I have a soft spot for impressionism. I should also mention I really enjoyed the more modern No. 10. What I like about the voting is I get to vote for as many as I want! Gee, that makes it a lot easier.

Thanks everyone who contributed - I am really impressed that there were so many entries - I hope that continues in the future too. By far the best part of the competition is so see how such a simple theme gets such a wide variety of treatment.

Cheers,
YBaCuO

[oldbob]

have you tried summing the % of the different entries? It gives a total like 289%. That's weird! ~|

roberto

[rbowser-]

I finally bit the bullet and cast my vote(s). WOnderful to listen to them all again, one after the other--I'm lost amidst a sea of whole tone mania!--I gravitated to some as favorites, but enjoyed all 12 very much.

I've said it, others have, but I can't help but say again that the burst of creativity that propels these arrangements is just fantastic to behold--be-hear? Every single one of these versions sounds vital and fresh.

And I think it was an excellent idea to allow more than one entry from participants. If someone is enthused enough to do more than one version--why smother that enthusiasm? From listening, I think we all have some good ideas of which pieces are by the same person--it will be fun to find out for sure once this draws to a close.

One more thing--I was a bit hesitant to submit this theme when I came up with it, thinking it could be considered too limited in its arranging possibilities. But I'm glad I went ahead with it, because this wide variety of approaches has certainly proved my initial concern to have been unfounded.

Inspiring to hear all of these again. Just great.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[wrayer]

Well, I think the poll is over since this has fallen down the page a bit. Are we ready to declare the victory for #12 - Job well done.

[trentpmcd]

Well, I think the poll is over since this has fallen down the page a bit. Are we ready to declare the victory for #12 - Job well done.
I agree - I think it is done and time to call #12 the winner. I think somebody like Gary needs to take the official tally and call it closed, but it does seem to be done - no new votes in a couple of days.

[rbowser-]

It does look like the voting has ended. Tomorrow the 21st would make it exactly 2 weeks after the poll was posted, but I don't know if an exact number of days is what Gary and Sean think is necessary.

What a round this has been! 12 excellent entries. And then of course the confusion and debate about the voting kept us guessing for awhile! I'm sure we all hope that can be straightened out better, starting with the next challenge.

As I've said before--I'm just so pleased that the rather odd theme I came up found such a variety of expression!

I notice that the Forum members who voted have a preference for the arrangements which veered the theme away from its darker more tense possibilities. The favorite pieces managed to take the theme more into gentler, more impressionist territory. It's interesting.

I wonder if one can take this to imply that there's a general preference for pieces that massage and exhilarate the nerves rather than ruffle them and jangle them? Perhaps.

It's been a great time!

Randy B.
(rbowser)
Winner of Challenge #11

[loydb]

Grats to all. I had #3, 7, 8 and 12 in my final cut, and listened to them probably a dozen times before finally going with 12.

[rbowser-]

Hi, Loyd

I'm curious if you finally gave your single vote to #12 because you thought you only had one vote to cast, or you just decided to not use the multiple voting option? Because you could have voted for all four of your choices if you'd wanted to.---Whether or not future challenges will use single or multiple voting options is what I hope becomes consistent from now on.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[CBK780]

I agree that it is time to declarae this one finished and move on.

I'd like to propose an idea for the challenge going forward:

1. Allow up to 3 votes per person.

This would allow people to recognize that there may be more than one great idea. Perhaps award up to three "medals". Gold, silver and bronze?

2. During the first week, perhaps we could minimize the discussion so as not to influence people who prefer to vote without discussion. But in the second week we can start discussing what we particularly like about the entries. That would make the thread more interesting while we are waiting for the outcome and let us focus on what's interesting and innovative.

What do you all think?

Charlie

[rbowser-]

Hi, Charlie

I think it's great that as active Forum members, some of us are doing some thinking and trying to help the Challenge events be even smoother running and more fun.

I'm not sure if I like the idea of there being a 2nd and 3rd place, I'd have to think about that more--But I do have some thoughts on your second point, about discussion on the challenge thread:

It's always surprised me to see posts saying what their favorites are, and sometimes going into why. That doesn't seem very appropriate to me while the contest is till running. I remember a couple challenges back when someone said, "Well, looks like we have a winner"--but the contest was only a few days old. And in that challenge, one couldn't see the poll results until After voting--which was a much better system.

So, I'd go farther and say that not only should we wait until after the first week, but until after the voting has ended, before discussing the entries. I feel that people visiting the polling thread should see nothing but a completely clean list, with no biasing information like poll results and other people's opinions. Both things, results and opinions Do influence subsequent visitors--that's one of those human nature quirks, preferring to share the opinion of others.

I'm sure we'd never agree on all the details about this contest, and actually, we haven't been asked to brainstorm on this--lol--but, maybe tossing out some ideas at least can't hurt.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[CBK780]

Hi Randy:

Thanks so much for your comments. Here are my thoughts --

1. Regarding the idea of a 2nd or 3d place, I'm not sure I lke it either. But I would like to find a way to acknowledge some of the really great non-winning entries. I think it would be fun to think of some creative ways to do this.

2. Regarding discussion. When we wait two weeks to talk about the entries eventually they get old. And for me, that makes this much less of a learning opportunity. My sense at this time is that people are ready to move on to the next one rather than continue to discuss this one.

One solution might be to have a second parallel thread. In one thread, discussion would be allowed, in the other none.

Again, these are just ideas to stimulate discussion.

Best,

Charlie

[trentpmcd]

A few thoughts – I do like 3 votes per user, particularly in a large field like this.

Having second and third might be OK except it would be in name only – the only “prize” is writing the theme for the next Challenge. I don’t think I’d go around saying “I got the bronze in Challenge 27.”

I think we should hold off on discussion until it is done. One reason is I want to post my thoughts on all of them except any that I contributed. If voting is still going on I wouldn’t be able to do it without people knowing which one(s) is/are mine.

I have 2 suggestions on that – first – start a new thread announcing the winner(s). This thread will have all of the entries posted. It will be in this thread where comments can be made. Actually, it will be this thread where comments will be strongly encouraged.

The second suggestion is that I think at the end a date should be set for posting the new theme. If there is a two week gap (or three) and everyone knows it people won’t be anticipating the new challenge as much.

I know this doesn’t fix everything. I listen to all of these pieces several times the first week they were up. And once last week. Do I really want to go back and spend more time with them? Charlie is right that after a couple of weeks they start to get old and people want to move on. And yet I’m sure that everyone who contributed an entry wants to know what people thought.

Oh, BTW, Randy, in the past you could see the score if you didn’t sign in – I don’t sign in at work except for the rare times I make a post from work so I can see the results the whole time.

I actually have a third suggestion. I think there should be a closed sticky thread at the top giving Challenge rules and a link to Sean’s Challenge web site. For this last challenge he didn’t post the link for almost a week after the theme was put out so I was working without knowing the rules. Not a big problem, but still….

Anyway, I’m waiting for the “official” results…..

[SeanHannifin]

It's been two weeks; I believe it is safe to declare #12 as the winner. )(~

We could probably start a new thread dedicated to a discussion about the "rules" and the future of these challenges... looks like there are some quite interesting ideas and suggestions. :)

[CBK780]

Sean:

I think that starting a new thread would be a great idea. That way we can get on with discussing this one and getting to the next challenge without cluttering up the thread with the discussion.

Best,

Charlie

[loydb]

I assumed it was like previous challenges and went with 1.



Hi, Loyd

I'm curious if you finally gave your single vote to #12 because you thought you only had one vote to cast, or you just decided to not use the multiple voting option? Because you could have voted for all four of your choices if you'd wanted to.---Whether or not future challenges will use single or multiple voting options is what I hope becomes consistent from now on.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[rbowser-]

Hi, Loyd--Thanks for the reply:

"...I assumed it was like previous challenges and went with 1..."

Absolutely reasonable assumption. That's what I thought too, until someone on this thread pointed out that the polling mechanism was accepting multiple votes. At the bottom of the "poll results" page, it says "multiple choice poll"--but it Doesn't say that on the page where you vote--way too obscure.

And, as was said quite some time ago on this thread, the problem with some people thinking only one vote was possible while others discovered they could choose multiple entries--is that as a result, some people had their tastes and preferences stated several times, while the people who chose one entry had their personal preferences expressed only once. It throws the results off considerably.

But, as has also been said on this thread, things will be made more clear next time, and we'll have a thread going to talk about ideas.

I await the revelation of the participants identities!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[wrayer]

I await the revelation of the participants identities!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

Ok, my meager offerings were numbers: 1,2 and 4

Yes, I did multiple entries. But I too liked #12 as well as #10

[trentpmcd]

Ok, my meager offerings were numbers: 1,2 and 4

Yes, I did multiple entries. But I too liked #12 as well as #10
Between the two of us we sewed up most of the first half – I did #s 3 & 5.

The idea for #3 came to me as soon as I heard the theme.

Randy said something about a whole-tone hoe down, so I decided to play with that idea. I gave up after only a few minutes of working on it from this angle, but took the output of these few minutes in a different direction to come up with #5. When it looked like something I would like I wrote Sean to see if I could submit more than one, a question he then posted to the group.

[rbowser-]

Hello, and thank you both Bill and Trent for stepping forward re: your entries. NICe! Such a variety in approaches, just between the two of you, and I really enjoyed all of those you both listed just now.

I hope everyone claims their entries this time--Seems like last time there were several which never had names finally attached to them.

ANd I liked the idea that came up for a fresh post to be started making the official announcement of #12 as the winner--That's up to Sean.

This really has been fascinating--thank you guys again!

Randy B.
(rbowser)
Winner of Challenge #11, penned Challenge #12 theme

[Richard N.]

Well, I'll 'fess up to Entry #9.

As I said to Sean when I submitted it, if nothing else it should have got the prize for the shortest entry!! :)

I tried to make the arrangement as melodic as possible using "jazz type" chords. After I had harmonized the tune I ran out of stem and couldn't think of anything more advanced than a simple sax quintet arrangement that really didn't develop anywhere.

However, all was not lost as this was my first attempt at this sort of arranging and I am still quite pleased at the result.

This was a good "challenge" that was perhaps just a little too far out of my comfort zone. But then that is what made it interesting.

Nice one Randy :)

[JohnnyP]

Well I did theme#11. I'm curious who did 12? I mean you know.. . the winner?

[rbowser-]

I guess we need some patience, Johnny--Sean is probably at work and will wrap things up more officially later on.

Meanwhile, Thanks for letting us know you did #11--Good work!

And Richard, yours might have been short, but it was Sweet! One time through the theme, with such rich voicings in a Jazz mode--I really liked that one a lot too. It's great to hear that you found this challenge quite a --challenge!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[Leaf]

Congrats to #12!)(~

...and everyone else, great job, great music!)(~

[oldbob]

ok, I think now I can confess I did #12... I was reluctant at first, when I saw Randy's theme, since I always considered the whole tone scale a somewhat arid source of musical material, but Randy persuaded me to try something. I know I'm usually regarded as kind of a jazzy guy, so this time tried something in a more classical style, and eventually I don't think whole tone harmony is so static after all... I've learned something.
I'm proud to be the winner, but all of the entries were so good that every one of them might have won. I particularly liked #7, which was my vote. I wonder who composed that...
:|:
Roberto

PS it seems just right that challenge #12 with 12 entries must have #12 as the chosen one

[rbowser-]

ROberto!

THANK you for ending the suspense and claiming ownership of the winning entry!

You just now read my mind--how eerie it is that this was Challenge #12, with 12 entries, and #12 got the most votes. What the...?!

Well I had this totally wrong--I've been guessing that you did #9, which Richard said earlier was his.

AND I was thinking that #7 and #12 could have been by the same person!

I love surprises, and this is a great one--to finally know who did that beautiful piece. wow.

I remember you saying that exact thing--that you've always found the Whole Tone Scale to be "an arid source of musical material." NICE to hear that taking up this challenge made you change your opinion--Because "static" or "arid" are the LAst words that could be used about your piece. In general terms, I admire so much the way you uncovered an otherwise hidden beauty in the theme. Amazing work.


HUGE ROUnd of applause for you, my friend!


)(~ )(~ )(~ )(~

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[oldbob]

wow Randy, thank you!

Rob

[trentpmcd]

AND I was thinking that #7 and #12 could have been by the same person!


So, did you (or anybody) imagine that #3 and #5 were the same person?:D

[JohnnyP]

Good Theme Rob.

[RichR]

Well, admit that I did #10. I took it away from its whole tone roots and put i in a contemporary structured harmony. Guess it didn't work so well. But, I had fun doing it and that is what this is all about, Right?


Fun, experience, learning, and sharing!

[oldbob]

Well, admit that I did #10. I took it away from its whole tone roots and put i in a contemporary structured harmony. Guess it didn't work so well.


Rich, I think it works quite well. It has an interesting "middle-east" sound to me... and I agree this is a learning experience

Roberto

[rbowser-]

Trent! No I didn't guess that 3 and 5 were by the same person. I liked both of those, and probably favor the agitated quartet in #5. They both have an exciting, anxious edge to them, and maybe in retrospect I can see that I could have guessed they had the same arranger--Ah, but hindsight is always golden.

Hello again, JohnnyP--you said "...Good Theme Rob..." HEY now, IIIIIIII wrote the theme, you guys "just" made music out of it! :)

RichR--what's with this "... Guess it didn't work so well..." Are you kidding? Your #10 entry was great! Everyone soon saw that while the theme is Whole Tone, that the harmonization of it couldn't stick to that scale--That was the logical, good choice to make.

Really--this has been great fun. Hope to hear from the rest of the entrants!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[rayzalaf]

Well done Roberto )(~

I thought you would try something different this time.
I'm not sure jazz has as strong a following in this place even though it is a much harder genre to write in.
I voted for all eleven, the 12th being me with #8.
My full requiem will be played at my funeral but hopefully not too soon.

Ray

[rbowser-]

Ah! So You were our Phantom on this Challenge, Ray. I had an inkling that #8 could be you perched on a stool ala Lon Chaney in front of the mighty pipe organ.

Well done my Scottish friend!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[oldbob]

Ray, I liked your dark, gothic version of the piece
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/toddfickley/England-Scotland_192_200x267.jpg

Roberto

[rayzalaf]

Thanks Randy and Roberto,

I was thinking of posting the fuller version in the listening room.

Should I, it's not usually done after these events.

Ray

[trentpmcd]

Thanks Randy and Roberto,

I was thinking of posting the fuller version in the listening room.

Should I, it's not usually done after these events.

Ray
Hi Ray - I don't see anything wrong with you posting a fuller version of your entry in the listening room.

This theme could have gone either bright or dark - it was nice to hear a darker version of it.

[RichR]

I am so sorry everyone! In my effort to let you know I did #10, I forgot to congratulate the winner! I really enjoyed #12 and I want to thank OldBob (who is probably younger than me :-) ). Great orchestration and rendering Roberto, I really liked your decisions on how to effectively use the given melody. My Hat is off to you! )(~ )(~ )(~

[rbowser-]

Rich--You're forgiven. Just don't let it happen again. :D

Ray--I think it's a great idea to post the full version of your Gothic version of the theme! So what if it's not usually done? If you have more music to share, I say bring it on!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[oldbob]

thanks Rich, but who's behind #7 anyway?

[trentpmcd]

I just realized I haven’t congratulated the winner. Congratulations Roberto! An excellent piece.

I’m also waiting to see who did #6 and #7. These were two of my favorites. I’m very surprised 6 didn’t get more votes.

[Kenny Long]

Congratulations Roberto! You continue to amaze me with your creativity and compositional skills.

Cheers,
Kenny

[oldbob]

Trent, thanks a lot...

Kenny, you're very kind, thank you

[SeanHannifin]

My congratulations Roberto! )(~

Many thanks to everyone who participated and made this round so captivating, I enjoyed listening to the wonderful variety!


I’m also waiting to see who did #6 and #7. These were two of my favorites. I’m very surprised 6 didn’t get more votes.

Woohoo, I'm glad someone liked my #6 entry! :)

[etLux]

Congratulations, Roberto!

My best,


David
www.DavidSosnowski.com
.

[RichR]

I guess the anonymous no-ome did #7. Wish I knew who! :D

Yooo Hoooo?

[wrayer]

I guess the anonymous no-ome did #7. Wish I knew who! :D

Yooo Hoooo?

I think number 7 was done by Claudine Debussy, Claude's great grand daugther!

[AMDG]

Hi, Everyone:

No, not good old Claudine Debussy -- although I think I dated her in high school back in 1973; have to check the yearbook on that! Let me introduce myself here. My name is Brian Sagraves from Lebanon, New Hampshire. I'm sorry to have be so mysterious about this, and I'll explain in a minute.

But first let me congratulate Roberto on a stellar win! Wonderful stuff! Indeed, all the other entries were superb!

Now here's a curious tale. Since I first purchased GPO and discovered this forum, I've never been able to post anything here because for several reasons the Forum disliked my computer. And for many months I have tried to figure out how to resolve this -- always coming up short. Until recently when my wife brought her laptop home from work, and BINGO! I was finally able to make the necessary connection. This week, however, my wife was out of town -- took her computer with her -- and I haven't be able to tell anyone that I was the composer of Entry #7.

So here I am, and able to thank all of you who cast a vote for my submission. It means a great deal to me -- I'm one of the amateurs here who likes to write for the fun of it.

Well, let's get on with the next challenge. I'm eager to see what we'll have to work with next time.

Sincerely,
Brian Sagraves

[oldbob]

Brian, welcome to the forum and congratulations for your great entry. It was my favourite one (after mine:D) and I was worrying about the author not showing up. Ok, now I'm gonna put together a theme for the next challenge...

[rbowser-]

So good to hear from you, Brian!

Simply fantastic entry you presented for this Challenge. It was mesmerizing.

And yet another one of my guesses is shot down---I was thinking it was possible that Roberto also did #7, and was just being coy about it!

I can relate to your problems getting on this Forum. It's especially difficult for some reason. I was briefly on when I first got GPO in 2005, but then suddenly couldn't log on. I went for a YEar being un-able to post!--That was cleared up, and now I've been on since November.

Congrats on getting on here, and thanks again for your wonderful music.

I'm also looking forward to Roberto's theme for Challenge #13--I'll be able to participate again!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[etLux]

Welcome aboard, Brian!

David
www.DavidSosnowski.com
.

[trentpmcd]

Welcome to the forum Brian. Nice to see somebody else from NH here.

I really liked #7. No offence to Roberto (and the others) but I think #7 was my favorite. Can't wait to hear more of your music posted here.