Clarification on Tom Hopkins' new Listening Room Rules

[rbowser-]

Tom Hopkins recently posted a new "sticky" post in The Listening Room with guidelines for posting new music there. I urge everyone to read it. It's a logical and very reasonable list of rules he's posted.

I much appreciate Tom's rules, and understand the need for them, and also agree with them whole heartedly. The Listening Room is a very popular, busy Forum, and Tom's guidelines will help the space there be shared more equally amongst those of us posting music.

I always intend to participate in the Garritan Forums in a way that meshes with the wishes of those in charge, and with the needs of fellow users. Hence---my following question:

A situation has come up which I'm not sure how to handle.

An old post of mine from November 2006 was recently and unexpectedly resurrected. A new member didn't understand that he should have posted his musical piece on a new thread, and instead, posted it on my old thread. That's an understandable mistake for a new person to make.

Additional posts are being added to that thread, in response to the new member's piece, and to mine. I've replied, trying to straighten things out--but I know most people will never wade through that lengthy thread and get a clear picture.

So the question arises---When an old post is unexpectedly boosted to the first page again, should we still feel obligated to wait until it drops off before posting a new piece?

Maybe I'm being too literal about the new rules, but I would like clarification.


My Suggestion

--is that the dates of posts be the determining factor in this equation. In the case I'm talking about, it's easy to see that the original thread is almost 6 months old. I had no control over it being revived, and so I think it should be acceptable for me to post the new piece of music I was hoping to put up today.

Am I worrying too much?--Well, I do know that after reading Tom's new rules which I was glad to see, that it bothered me a bit to see someone go ahead and post a new piece when he already had TWO current posts still on the front page. It bothered me more than it has in the past, since Tom's reasonable guidelines are now officially posted.

I want to avoid irritating someone else in the same way--hence this post and my question.

Do you think I should feel free to post my new piece since the post of mine currently on page one isn't current? And as you can see, I'm hoping the consensus is that Yes, I Should feel free.

I ask the moderators and the group. --- ? ----

Randy B.--trying to play fair
(rbowser)

[Garritan]

Randy,

Thank you for your concern.

These guidelines are for those who were abusing the Listening Room. We have been receiving many complaints about those posting multiple works on page one, reposting old songs again, bumping their own threads, etc - to take up a disproprtionate amount of real estate on page one.

These guidelines to help others have a fair shot at being heard. The rule is not set in stone. Especially if there is a great deal of comment on other member's works.

If we see an unusualy high number of new posts by the same person in the Listening Room, we will lock the thread and privately contact the person and ask that person to space out their posts so as to give others an opportunity to be heard.

Randy, you don't have anything to worry about as you are one of the most considerate and best listeners in the forum (even winning a library for such courtesy).

Best,

Gary Garritan

[etLux]

Randy, I too think the new rules make a great deal of sense, and
I'm all in favor of them, most definitely.

And I'd surely agree with you that the initial posting date should
be taken into consideration -- no one has control over when an
old post will be brought back around. It would be unfair to lock a
post on that basis; and I doubt it would ever happen.

The key factor, here, is simply consideration of others, giving the
other fellow a chance to be heard and gain valuable comment and
input.

Recently I ran into this myself. A new member brought back around
two of my older pieces. I did, indeed, have another new piece ready
to post -- but decided to hold off until the older ones floated well
down the list and off page one.

I'd suggest a similar outlook. If you've got a piece or two sitting
on page one, even older material that's been brought back, sit back
a bit. The music will keep. And an encore now and then is kind of
fun, too... lol!

Certainly, though, I don't think anyone for even a moment could have
anything but good words to say about you, Randy. You've always
been helpful, always courteous, always considerate, and you are
most certainly one of the forum's most valued and respected
listeners and contributors.

With best regards,



David
www.DavidSosnowski.com
.

[rbowser-]

Thank you Very much, Gary, for your clarification. I didn't want to make assumptions about how much gray area there is in the guidelines.

And since you alluded to the incredible surprise you pulled on me recently---it's my first piece with a certain fabulous Violin that I'm looking forward to putting up later today. :)

David!---You and Gary both are too kind. It's very nice to know that my participation here is so appreciated. I feel it's a privilege to be part of such a great online group--But you leave me a bit, --:o

Thank you both!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[DPDAN]

A new member didn't understand that he should have posted his musical piece on a new thread, and instead, posted it on my old thread. That's an understandable mistake for a new person to make.(rbowser)

Hi Randy,
In your particular situation, a PM to Gary or any of the forum moderators with a request to devide the posts and move the newly created posts into a new topic is possible. You would not be disobeying any of these new rules if you were to post a new work, even while one of your older topics was on the front page, especially if it was bumped to the front page by someone other than yourself.

Dan :)

[rayzalaf]

Let's hear it Randy,

Soon as you like.

Ray

[rbowser-]

Hey, Thanks for that info, Dan--I did not know that before. I think it's best to leave this present "Pinafore" post as it is, but this will be good to remember in the future.

Thanks, Ray--As soon as I get some other Stuff done this morning, I'll make an MP3 of what I've been working on with my brand spankin' new Strad so you can hear it! :hp:


Randy B.
(rbowser)

[Michael_uk]

I read your post in full Randy .. but not until after I had commented and then I realised what had happened.

I'm not 100% certain from reading the new member's post that he/she used Gary's libraries. I don't recall Tom mentioning in the rules that works posted in the 'Listening Room' should include a significant portion of Gary's samples but I've naturally taken it for granted.

If I've misunderstood and the work was done using Gary's samples or it is considered OK to post works in our Listening Room with none of Gary's samples then I apologise upfront.

[rbowser-]

Hello, Michael!

Ah yes, I pictured exactly what happened when you responded to my thread. Your remarks were much appreciated, certainly no harm done in keeping the old thread boosted.

But I think you're correct--that the new member's post attached to my thread was Not done with any Garritan instruments. He talked about how he uses a hand picked collection of Sound Fonts.---(and as I said in a reply to what he put up, I hope he considers getting GPO---he's in Need of it)

And I also think you're correct that what we're supposed to be putting up in The Listening Room are pieces done with Garritan libraries. There is a "sticky" post saying "Welcome to the GPO Demo Section"--something like that. Some people have hesitated to put up JABB pieces, but it's actually clear that Gary and his team mean that any of the Garritan collection can be used.

It does seem to be written down somewhere--maybe I'm thinking of the sticky I just referred to, but yes, whether or not it's included in the new rules Tom posted--it's not considered kosher to be posting pieces that feature other sounds. Only makes sense, and I'm pretty sure that what I'm saying is correct.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[nikolas]

Well...

I have posted 2 live works in the listening room over here, and I have never done anything with GPO, since I don't have it... I only have the strad! I am an active member in the Garritan forum and in the general NSS forum... (so many posts in so little time :D). I didn't think it would be bad to post the live music. I know that it's not the norm, but really wanted to share it with people that I know would appreciate that kind of music.

Now on a next work of mine, I will be using the strad extensively so I will post it here as well. :)

As for the more than one posts in the 1st page, it simply makes sense to me, and there have been members bumping and posting more than once... As I told Randy, it certainly does not apply to him and his very solid and reasonable making of new threads (like Gary himself says). :)

[Leaf]

I'm pretty sure that if not for this thread, i would have not noticed the sticky upon visiting the listening room. I don't know if others are as unattentive.. or maybe that's not the right word... if others wouldn't notice it, either. If so, may i suggest making it stand out somehow, maybe red font or something.

:n:

[Tom Hopkins]

If so, may i suggest making it stand out somehow, maybe red font or something.

:n:Wait a minute! Do you mean to suggest that the mere presence of my name is not enough to make any thread standout like a beacon in the sky?!!! I'm dashed to the rocks with disappointment.

Tom

[Michael_uk]

Well...

I have posted 2 live works in the listening room over here, and I have never done anything with GPO, since I don't have it... I only have the strad! I am an active member in the Garritan forum and in the general NSS forum...
I have never suggested works in the Listening Room should include GPO only. I used the term 'Garritan Libraries' which, of course, includes the Strad.

Similarly, in response to Prince of Music, I agree that it is probably OK to include samples not yet available in Gary's libraries, such as voice. If this is incorrect then I'm sure Tom or Gary will correct me.

The main point, as I understand it, is that works posted in the Listening Room should feature Gary's samples. The extent of Gary's samples used for works posted in the Listening Room in relation to samples from other libraries is not for me to determine. This is for Gary and his team to define but I would imagine it is a case of 'let common sense prevail'.

As I understand it, the work posted in question had none of Gary's samples, unless, as I stated, I have misunderstood the post. If I am correct then, to use Randy's term, 'this is not kosher'.

[rbowser-]

I had the feeling the new guidelines sticky wasn't being seen by everyone. Maybe as time goes by more people will notice it.

Tom, Prince of Music--There you are! I keep losing track of you. (have you gotten my emails--?)

You suggested we could just post several pieces on one post. I feel that is a good way to have some things not heard. If we're wanting to make sure people know about a project of ours, the title or relevant info specific to it needs to be in the subject line. I know that when I open a post with a list of several pieces, it looks like too much. I'm likely to not give each file enough attention.

And I've never had the impression that the music posted is supposed to be done exclusively with Garritan instruments. To me it's always been clear that posted music just needs to include the use of Garritan libraries--And, that if nothing from Garritan is used, then it isn't an appropriate project to post. Maybe that needs to be spelled out even more specifically, but I don't see how anyone could really misunderstand.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[DPDAN]

My feeling about the Listening Room is that it should incorporate the same basic guidlines as the Annual Garritan Community Christmas CD.

Of course vocals is OK provided they are pleasant and well done. Refraining from using libraries other than Garritan libraries is a good objective.

We need to remember that this is not a music composition forum. It is a forum where customers and soon to be customers of Garritan Libraries can post, listen and talk about the products in action. Of course discussing music is at the heart of the forum.

Nobody is going to whine if someone uses GOS strings and JABB together, and nobody will whine if they use one or two instruments from some other sample library developer, but by all means, the sounds that are not Garritan should be listed. Posting a piece with primarily other libraries and including a few GPO instruments is not at all kosher or fair to other listeners who don't know.


Just my thoughts on the subject.
Dan

[garymosse]

Hi Dan,
I think that the following statement is generally true: Forums and other public forums take a life of their own; they grow and develop with the freedom to go wherever the scope of ideas will take them.
Total freedom in a forum leads to a lot of bad feelings; too much control leads to a loss of viewers.
Is the idea of this forum to only load "fluff" which demonstrates Garrison products? Why are people spending great amounts of time transcribing long works by Bach, etc. I don't think the intent is commercial.
Gary's attitude has been one of supplying a great product for people who can't affford the expensive sound options.
Why not allow it to lead to great COMPOSITIONAL efforts?
Gary Mosse

[rayzalaf]

Dear all,

I must confess to using other sampled instruments, real guitar and vocals when posting in the listening room.
When I first joined the forum I had loads of material just sitting waiting to post following tweaking with Garritan library instruments, and yes, I did post a lot in a short period of time. I think that happens quite often when new members join. I have settled down since the beginning of this year and now spread my work a little thinner on the ground.

I think it should be normal procedure to state when posting, either that all instruments are from Garritan Libraries and/or list what is and what isn’t.

I’m enjoying myself so much doing my thing, I may buy more expensive Libraries as and when I see fit. If for example I bought a 24bit Symphonic sample library, this would not be the place to rub young peoples noses in the dirt by showing off with it simply because unlike students, etc. I can afford it.

This forum is from Garritan to users of Garritan libraries. When I upload my tracks to SoundClick, I mention the Garritan Samples used in them. I am proud to produce the pieces I do with these samples. I try not to miss an opportunity when receiving replies to Strad pieces I’ve created to tell listeners how much of the performance is due to the instrument that I’m using. I get such a thrill to know that someone is purchasing it because of listening to my pieces.

I’m a guitarist. Although I’ve got various VST instruments to cover all sorts of music, there is no doubt in my mind Garritan samples have changed the way I work in my studio.

Do the right thing everybody!

Ray

[rbowser-]

Hello all

I think we're in agreement, those of us on this thread, and probably all the Forum members not on this thread---These are the Garritan Forums. There's a sticky post in The Listening Room welcoming people to post music they've created using Garritan libraries. It's only logical that our posted musical pieces show others what we're doing with these instruments.

At the Cakewalk Forums, there's a Forum for posting music--Someone would have to be Very thick to think that it would make sense for them to post a song and say, "Hey--Here's my latest project, recorded in Cubase!"--

One thing I didn't quite get on this thread:

"...Is the idea of this forum to only load "fluff" which demonstrates Garrison products?..."

It's a rhetorical question I guess, but I didn't understand what the point was. I'm not aware of anything ever being posted which is "fluff" or designed to just advertise Garritan instruments--? Maybe I missed the point.

Anyway--To re-cap with the original intent of this thread --Tom Hopkins' new Listening Room sticky post which outlines some simple guidelines I think was very helpful information. I've already posted the link to that post for a newcomer who needed a bit of guidance. We can all do that in a friendly way, helping to maintain the good flow of energy we have going here.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[DPDAN]

One thing I didn't quite get on this thread:

"...Is the idea of this forum to only load "fluff" which demonstrates Garrison products?..."

It's a rhetorical question I guess, but I didn't understand what the point was. I'm not aware of anything ever being posted which is "fluff" or designed to just advertise Garritan instruments--? Maybe I missed the point.Randy B.
(rbowser)

I think Gary M. may have misinterpreted my post when I said that this is not a composition forum, but rather a forum where poeple post works with Garritan products in action.

That's why I also said something like... of course "music" is at the core of the forum.

Dan

[rpearl]

I think Gary M. may have misinterpreted my post when I said that this is not a composition forum, but rather a forum where poeple post works with Garritan products in action.

That's why I also said something like... of course "music" is at the core of the forum.

Dan

Dan,

This reminds me of a comment a frien of mine made. He works in a high-end audio store, and remarked that there are two kinds of people who shop there: some who use their sound system to listen to music, and the others who use music to listen their sound system!:D

[Kenny Long]

Hi Tom,

I definately agree with you here. I love hearing how people creatively utilize Garritan samples in different situations.

Cheers,
Kenny

[rbowser-]

And this continues to be an interesting discussion.

Taking myself as an example, my primary instruments are GPO, JABB and now the Strad. Everything I record uses them, and then I still use some hardware synths and a few soft synths in addition--with the Garritan libraries remaining the core sounds to all my projects.

When I post music in The Listening Room, I understand that there's a residual benefit to the Garritan company, since their products are being promoted every time music is posted using their libraries, but my main purpose is just to share my music, sometimes ask for tech tips etc.

Whatever style the music is that I'm putting up is just a matter of it being whatever it is--I'm not consciously thinking I Have to put up classically oriented orchestral music, or any other genre. It seems to me most, and probably everyone simply puts up the music they do--and with GPO the flagship program, it's logical that a lot of symphonically oriented composers will have gravitated to these Forums and are likely to submit orchestral music.

Again using myself as an example, I've posted quite a variety of music, and I feel they've shown off Garritan libraries in a good light. I've done an original jazz arrangement of "Auld Lang Syne"--I did my version of the "Perry Mason" theme song, recently there was a semi-rock piece featuring a Theremin--and then there are my instrumental versions of Gilbert and Sullivan, as well as my own orchestrally oriented music written for my stage musical.

My point is that I don't think the point is for us to think of things specifically to post here which we think will help show off Garritan libraries. Most of us are so busy with whatever our current projects are, there's hardly the time to be recording pieces specifically because we might think, "Hmm, I think it'll help if I record a rock-n-roll song that has GPO strings in it."

Ya know? We do what we do. It'd be fine by me if more pop and or/rock music was posted, but I think the mix of music we Do have is just a reflection of the Forum members' tastes.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[Garritan]

This is a good discussion.

The common thread in this forum is that we all use Garritan libraries. This place is maintained for the benefit of our users so they can get their works heard and also get advice and tips on how to better work with our libraries.

In our "Welcome" stick post in the Listening Room (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=326856#post326856), we offer a few guidelines:

Welcome to the Listening Room!

Here you can share your music, receive constructive criticism, collaborate and enjoy great music made by other members.

This section is for Garritan library users helping other Garritan library users. We ask that if you post music here that at it uses some of the sounds of our libraries. This makes sense since it is a Garritan Forum and we want to focus on our user's music. We also ask that if you critique other people's work you do so in a constructive and respectful manner.

Enjoy the music!

Gary Garritan I don't mind if members also use other libraries and many works in the Listening Room use a variety of libraries. This is the way it has always been. When I first announced GPO over 3-1/3 years ago, years ago I stated that one of my goals of GPO was to lead people to other libraries. And it is helpful for an artist to have many colors and brushes in their palette.

Many people are in a Garritan forum to learn how to get better use of our libraries. People learn by offering a work for critique and if a work has little or no use of Garritan libraries then may be more difficult for meaningful comment. If a person does not use our libraries whatsoever, or very little, then there are better places to offer the work than in a Garritan forum.

We ask members to be considerate to other members and your host (which they overwhelmingly are :)). People who are considerate are the ones who get the most comment and greatest number of views.

There is a protocol of conduct that sets our forum apart from others. We are very privileged to have so many thoughtful people on this forum.

Thanks all for making this place what it is.


Gary Garritan

[Michael_uk]

.....
Is the idea of this forum to only load "fluff" which demonstrates Garrison products? Why are people spending great amounts of time transcribing long works by Bach, etc. I don't think the intent is commercial. .....
Gary Mosse


One thing I didn't quite get on this thread:

"...Is the idea of this forum to only load "fluff" which demonstrates Garrison products?..."

It's a rhetorical question I guess, but I didn't understand what the point was. I'm not aware of anything ever being posted which is "fluff" or designed to just advertise Garritan instruments--? Maybe I missed the point.

I don't understand this either. Artists put a tremendous amount of time and effort into rendering the works of composers whether it be Bach or otherwise using Gary's libraries. At the present time there is a fantastic perormance of a Mozart Piano Concerto which has received consistent praise and admiration. Is this considered 'fluff' or am I misunderstanding something here?

Taken on face value this has to be considered offensive and in breach of Gary's guidelines to be considerate to the efforts of others and to avoid negativity. This has to be a misunderstanding .. it must be. I certainly hope so.

[rayzalaf]

I agree for the most part, I just think that there would be times that works that maybe in a TOTALLY non-orchestral or jazz idiom, but still use Gary's products would be nice just to show people the versitility of his products.
JUST some ideas.

Tom

EDIT - I jsut went to the listening room on right on the top is exactly what I'm talking about a GREAT demo of using the strad in a fiddle country situation, looks like the only non garritan stuff was some guitar work, but I wouldn't think using a different more appropriate drum library, or adding some B3 (B4II) should elimenate this from the forum or even raise eyebrows. To me the whole idea is to show off what Gary's fantASTIC libraries can do. Hmmm I can picture some ELO imitations with the strad and cello run through say guitar rig for that electronic sound?

WOOHOO

Tom,

I was just about to reply to this before I saw your edit.
You won't get any argument from me on diversity of offerings.
Personally I've already considered some of the above. There are many work arounds to create near enough the sound. DPDan has cured me of doing mock-ups, so I'm concentrating on new "old" material.

cheers

Ray

[DPDAN]

DPDan has cured me of doing mock-ups, so I'm concentrating on new "old" material.

cheers

Ray

what does that mean Ray? :(

[rayzalaf]

what does that mean Ray? :(
Dan

It means your Pavane made me think about the amount of work needed to do a presentable mock up and I thought WHY?. Might as well do new stuff because nobody knows what it could sound like if it was a mock up.
I've got The Blue Danube 2/3 complete and decided I shouldn't spend the time finishing it. I've already learned enough about what works and what doesn't and it'll never match the real thing. Onwards and upwards composing :D

Cheers

Ray

[DPDAN]

I understand Ray, but the real thing is music. I just don't want to be responsible for someone not wanting to make a piece of music with samples just because it is not original.

Making music with a keyboard that produces synthetic sounds created by resistors and diodes, or using recorded samples is still music, but only to some.

In an A/B comparison, I have heard a number of direct comparisons where the midi recording did not even come close, and conversly, I have heard situations where the midi version was better and more pleasing to the ears.

Making mockups of original tunes does not protect you from the fact that some listeners will hear things that could be better or different. The same goes with any of my projects.
I'm sorry this has gone off topic.
I won't respond anymore.
Dan

[rayzalaf]

I understand Ray, but the real thing is music. I just don't want to be responsible for someone not wanting to make a piece of music with samples just because it is not original.

Making music with a keyboard that produces synthetic sounds created by resistors and diodes, or using recorded samples is still music, but only to some.

In an A/B comparison, I have heard a number of direct comparisons where the midi recording did not even come close, and conversly, I have heard situations where the midi version was better and more pleasing to the ears.

Making mockups of original tunes does not protect you from the fact that some listeners will hear things that could be better or different. The same goes with any of my projects.
I'm sorry this has gone off topic.
I won't respond anymore.
Dan
Dan,

I don't think this is that far off topic. I certainly wasn't suggesting that no one should do mockups because they will never reach your standard. I know most members posting in the listening room are firstly musicians and some way down the road from being recording engineers. This is simply a personal observation on my part about where I go from here. I'm a loose canon in the sense of being neither a first class musician or recording engineer. I'm trying to use both sides of the brain at the same time. Anyway Dan I understand your point of view and that of others. Music is what we make of it and if someone else enjoys what we do it's a bonus and a privilege.

My Best

Ray

[rbowser-]

Considering how many GPO users enjoy working with classical scores, it would certainly be counter-productive to suggest it isn't a worthwhile endeavor to work with published scores rather than original material.

--Notice I avoid using the term "mock up"---I know it's a commonly accepted term, but it sounds rather dismissive to me--It's only a "mock up" of the "real thing." I tend to think of the recordings (I avoid the term "rendering" also--sounds so mechanical) as things that exist legitimately on their own. To me, they aren't merely stand-ins for something else ie: a live performance with an orchestra.

I understand that many people are composing music and using GPO to get an idea of how things will work with a live orchestra, but there are also those of us for whom the recordings we make Are the end result. With my music, if it's played by a band or orchestra at some point--that's great, but it isn't the reason I'm writing music or making my recordings. What is produced on my comptuer Is the end result--at least for the time being.

On the topic of the way we conduct ourselves in The Listening Room, the original topic of this thread--Here's something I find a bit surprising: How sometimes we'll see people adding to their threads (boosting them) multiple times in a row--As many as five responses in a row. --!-- It always surprises me, and seems rather, well, inappropriate.

It seems to me a good goal is to have our own replies on our threads to be the smallest percentage of total replies as possible. If we have multiple responses we want to reply to, I think it's a more polite practice to thank them all in one post.

But you know--for the most part, I think we're doing really well as a group in sharing The Listening Room space.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[rayzalaf]

On the topic of the way we conduct ourselves in The Listening Room, the original topic of this thread--Here's something I find a bit surprising: How sometimes we'll see people adding to their threads (boosting them) multiple times in a row--As many as five responses in a row. --!-- It always surprises me, and seems rather, well, inappropriate.

It seems to me a good goal is to have our own replies on our threads to be the smallest percentage of total replies as possible. If we have multiple responses we want to reply to, I think it's a more polite practice to thank them all in one post.

But you know--for the most part, I think we're doing really well as a group in sharing The Listening Room space.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

Randy,

I do note that you often give replies to more than one post together.
A single bump so to speak.
I have done this myself on my present tune on page one.
But I reserve the right to give individual replies, and if these individual replies are posted one after another during a short period of time then they do not have an advantage over others in the time they are on the first page. :D

Yeah! your right it's this nippy Scotsman again.

Ray

PS. I've checked recently and found that most of my listening room posts have had more hits after disappearing onto page 2 than they did on page 1 perhaps the page 1 thing is a "red herring".

[Michael_uk]

Considering how many GPO users enjoy working with classical scores, it would certainly be counter-productive to suggest it isn't a worthwhile endeavor to work with published scores rather than original material.

--Notice I avoid using the term "mock up"---I know it's a commonly accepted term, but it sounds rather dismissive to me--It's only a "mock up" of the "real thing." I tend to think of the recordings (I avoid the term "rendering" also--sounds so mechanical) as things that exist legitimately on their own. To me, they aren't merely stand-ins for something else ie: a live performance with an orchestra.

I understand that many people are composing music and using GPO to get an idea of how things will work with a live orchestra, but there are also those of us for whom the recordings we make Are the end result. With my music, if it's played by a band or orchestra at some point--that's great, but it isn't the reason I'm writing music or making my recordings. What is produced on my comptuer Is the end result--at least for the time being.
Randy B.
(rbowser)

I couldn't agree more Randy.



On the topic of the way we conduct ourselves in The Listening Room, the original topic of this thread--Here's something I find a bit surprising: How sometimes we'll see people adding to their threads (boosting them) multiple times in a row--As many as five responses in a row. --!-- It always surprises me, and seems rather, well, inappropriate.

It seems to me a good goal is to have our own replies on our threads to be the smallest percentage of total replies as possible. If we have multiple responses we want to reply to, I think it's a more polite practice to thank them all in one post.
Randy B.
(rbowser)

I have to confess to being 'guilty' on this point. It was my first posting and I was so overwhelmed by the goodness of people here I just had to reply individually. Perhaps for my next effort I will look at 'individual replies' within the same post where I have multiple feedback. In my present experience, I had thought that I had received my final visit and then came the surprises. I replied thinking it was the last and then another popped up. I feel also that Ray has a valid point. It's all food for thought.

[etLux]

If someone takes their valuable time to listen to my work;
and comment, often in some detail -- you bet I'm going to
take the time to respond individually and personally to them.
Each and every one of them. To me, it would seem rude
not to do so.

Personally, I also find it rather confusing and difficult to
respond to a number of people in a single thread. Especially
when responding in detail, I tend to quote the post to which
I am replying: a further complication.

Thoughtful replies, into which one puts some serious con-
sideration, also take time. It's not unusual (for me, at least)
to spend as much as half an hour preparing a considered
response... which, one hopes, actually says something of
interest. [Ah, well, in my case, maybe not... rofl.]

But given that -- plus the time spent listening to other
posts... it's often difficult to find the hours needed to
respond rapidly to a busier thread.

An additional consideration is, again, courtesy. Many of
you know I'm a longtime veteran of the web, and a factor
anyone with this experience is well aware of is the influence
of link position in a page. Very simply: the top two or three
links on a page will typically take something like 90% of the hits.

All that in mind, often the course of best courtesy is to hold
off a bit in replies -- let your post float down (or even off)
page one, so others have ample opportunities at the top few
slots on the page.

And, of course, within the personal constraints of your time,
grouping replies, answering several at once, is likewise a
courtesy, so you're not constantly popping up to the top.
I generally try to answer at least three posts -- and then get
the heck out of the way for a while!

My best,


David
www.DavidSosnowski.com
.

[rbowser-]

We could certainly get bogged down with too many "rules," and that would be a drag. Guidelines both directly spelled out and those just implied are really clear enough.

Like I said earlier, I think we do pretty darned well as a group.

Ray, it was just a general observation about multiple replies in a row to our own posts. I didn't intend to be singling anyone out. Every situation is a bit unique, and like I said in the first paragraph here, it would be nuts to take the fun out of things with too many hard-and-fast rules.

I think this was a great thing from David:

"...often the course of best courtesy is to hold
off a bit in replies -- let your post float down (or even off)
page one, so others have ample opportunities at the top few slots on the page..."

That's a practice that usually works very well.

As with everything, we all have our own sensibilities about how we do things. For me, it's easy to reply to a lot of people at once because I use the "reply" button instead of "quote" button, and all the messages are right there below the blank text box, ready for referring to and cutting and pasting from.

Onwards, lads. We're doing great.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[nikolas]

I may be unique (!) or simply have common sense, but the garritan forums, need to have something Garritian in, no? (and yes, I've broken that law twice :D as mentioned somewhere else, but only because I knew that I would find better suited audience here, plus I just had gotten the Strad, and started feeling more in place :p).

Just wanted to comment on one thing alone:

there is a difference in the term "rule" and "guidline". I'm not certain it does apply in English, but indeed a rule is something that you have to follow, while a guidline is more of a suggestion. That said I'm sure (thus I did post) that if someone shows up once or twice, with a live performance, or some news with other libraries, noone will bite his/her head. simmilarly if someone posts 2 threads, cause he really needed to show something, considerably different, no forum will die out, or flames take over the subforums...

Anyone overdoing it, will be spanked! :D I mean, I know I won't be posting live performances for a long time, especially if I've not posted works with Garritan products, previously. It just makes sense. Now, if the Berlin Philarmoniker decides to commission me, then I will have no choice but to tell you! But this is a long way to come, even in Nevereverland! :p

:)

[etLux]

Anyone overdoing it, will be spanked! :D



ROFL!

Nikolas, I believe you've hit upon the ideal solution.

We need an Official Forum Spanker.
.

[rayzalaf]

Well I'm hearing but I'm not listening

http://www.rayinstirling.net/spanked.jpg


Ooooooh!

[Leaf]

Wait a minute! Do you mean to suggest that the mere presence of my name is not enough to make any thread standout like a beacon in the sky?!!! I'm dashed to the rocks with disappointment.

TomOhhh, I didn't realize they were talking about a post by you, that's different. It was the red font, I'm color blind.:p

[efiebke]

ROFL!

Nikolas, I believe you've hit upon the ideal solution.

We need an Official Forum Spanker.
.

Spankings for everyone!! :D

[rbowser-]

Ray, that gal in the picture--could you maybe, um, like, track her down and--err, sign her up here?

--whoops--Kate's coming towards the studio--gotta go!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[rwayland]

Wait a minute! Do you mean to suggest that the mere presence of my name is not enough to make any thread standout like a beacon in the sky?!!! I'm dashed to the rocks with disappointment.

Tom
Well, sorry about that, Tom! I did not notice it for at least 5 days.


Richard

[AlanPerkins]

Every other man and his dog has responded to this interesting post, so I thought I'd better too.

I think it is pretty obvious when someone is responding to people's posts with gratitude or questions as opposed to responding merely for the sake of bumping an item.

If I use my own piece as an example, I was incredibly moved by the wonderfully generous comments I received and I was so excited to get the comments from everyone. I would hate to see anyone not respond to share their gratitude, ask for clarification, or probe some technical point purely to be seen to not be self-aggrandising.

As I said, I think people can tell the difference.

Alan

[trentpmcd]

A few thoughts on the posts in this thread.

First, sorry Tom – I missed your post in the listening room until I read Randy’s thread here. Don’t know how I missed it. I did notice, however, a great improvement in the Listening Room. When I listen to the music there I feel as if I have a fighting chance to hear a big portion of the music instead of just a select few.

As far as listening goes – I take an agonizing long time to listen to and respond to a post. Listening, of course, is always a pleasure; it’s responding that is agonizing. I listen and then listen again. I listen a third time and try to come up with thoughts and ideas. I open Word and start writing while listening a fourth time. Usually the first thing that comes out is “Nice. I like it a lot.” Urgghhh! How do people write meaningful posts?!? I try real hard to personalize it and let people know that I’m spending a long time with their music, but it still comes out as “Nice. I like it a lot.” I’ve spent as long as two hours going over a piece over and over and still ended up with a ten word response. Every time I respond to something in the Listening Room I get a whole lot more respect for somebody like David who seems to be able to quickly get to the root of the music he is listening to. When I finally do write something I think is constructive, I usually offend the original poster.

As far as replying to people who reply to my music goes… I’ve belonged to a few forums in the past (mostly photography) and in all of them the original poster responded to each response to his/her work individually. It is sometimes surprising when somebody doesn’t.

It is also sometimes confusing.

Randy does it in a way that I can quickly see he is responding to several people at once. That’s a good thing. Most of the time, however, I’ll look through and wonder why a person hasn’t responded. I’ll later go back and see that they have but it was buried in with another response.

Even though most of my responses to somebody listening to my music comes out as “Thanks for listening.” I spend a lot of time coming up with that response. Usually I’ll reply hours later, often taking a huge amount of time to try to formulate a response.

As I said, I take a very long to put up a response to someone’s music even if I only say “Nice. Thanks for posting.” and I assume others have taken equally long to respond to mine. I feel as if I would be rude if I didn’t spend as much time as they did. I also want to be sure to thank them individually for taking the time to respond – I feel they deserve it knowing how hard it is to write something.

That being said, I also try to respond to everything at one sitting. After hours of formulating in my head I will sit at my computer and write all of my responses down and go back and get each one individually. In other words, I am not pushing my thread back to the top because it never left the top. I don’t respond to one, wait for my thread to move off the first page, respond to the next, etc. When people read threads of my music do they really think I am doing that?

Oh well, I guess it doesn’t matter in my case – I rarely get more than 3 or 4 responses so my threads are quickly out of site, out of mind.

As far as products used – I assume everything is a Garritan product unless it is stated otherwise or obviously isn’t (i.e., vocals). That being said, I feel if a Garritan product is used, even for a relatively minor part, it is fair game as long that fact is stated. On the other hand, if something uses a library in direct competition with GPO for 99% of its content and 1% GPO, well… that is a little tacky…

Oh well, back to the music…

[rbowser-]

I'm very glad this thread I started is drawing more attention to Tom's important sticky in The Listening Room. We tend to focus so much on the new posts with music that what's up above the dividing line can be unnoticed.

And this thread has turned out to be such a good discussion also, as Gary Garritan pointed out several posts back.

Alan, I really liked what you said about being moved by replies to your music. I can certainly relate to that. Everyone here who has posted music has had that experience, I am sure. The camaraderie and constant validation of each other's work are what makes the Forum so strong and wonderful.

Trent! What a fantastic post you wrote for us today! We all have our individual ways of visiting the Listening Room, posting, replying et al, but no matter how we do it, there is an investment of time and concentration involved.

I would imagine everyone has agonized a bit at times while trying to put into words what we really feel, either about the music we hear, or in reaction to what others have said about our own music. It's a process that we have to set aside at least an hour for each time we actively visit the Forum.

Obviously, it's because of the time it can take which prevents some people from ever fully participating. Hover your mouse over the stats in the right hand column of the Listening Room's front page, and you will see how many hits there have been on the threads. On average, approximately 5% of those hits result in posted responses.

And of course there are people who post music but never or rarely respond to other people's music. I think that's a time issue also, coupled with a basic non-appreciation of what the Forum can really offer.

Thanks so much, Trent, for explaining what a painstaking, considered process all of this is for you.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[Michael_uk]

.....

I think it is pretty obvious when someone is responding to people's posts with gratitude or questions as opposed to responding merely for the sake of bumping an item....

Alan

I do agree with this.