Film Composers isolation....

[aLfR3dd]

Hi,
i just finished working on a project that made me stay in my studio for 6 weeks almost all day long....i really had very little chance to go out and see somebody....now that the project is finished i really feel like i've been in Alactraz ..i mean very alienated !!! kind of difficult to get used to reality again!!!!! makes me think of people like elfman, howard, horner....how do they manage this total isolation??????

[Hannes_F]

One thing that is for sure: If you are doing film music and have a special other, devote him/her a high quality of attention in the time you are together since there is not much quantity left. Try to forget your plans and your projects for that time slot, ask, listen and try to put yourself into her/his shoes as good as you can ...

[AlexDavis]

makes me think twice about taking on a feature-length gig. I can't imagine being almost completely isolated from my family/friends for 6 weeks!

I really appreciate that advice Hannes, thank you for those important words of wisdom!

-Alex

[Marty Prod]

Hi,
i just finished working on a project that made me stay in my studio for 6 weeks almost all day long....i really had very little chance to go out and see somebody....now that the project is finished i really feel like i've been in Alactraz ..i mean very alienated !!! kind of difficult to get used to reality again!!!!! makes me think of people like elfman, howard, horner....how do they manage this total isolation??????

hi, being a victim of a grave audio traumatism 12 years ago, i have spent most of mytime during the next 12 years in a total isolation, in my sofa in front of my computer because my hearing is now too sensitive and i can't go out anymore...
6 weeks, and you become crazy ? LOL , imagine 12 years !!
i still think that being a composer is one of the most beautiful job on earth.so you can fell very lucky...

[AlexDavis]

i still think that being a composer is one of the most beautiful job on earth.so you can fell very lucky...

Amen, brother!

[Von Richter]

Eh... I've always been isolated, with no extended phony social group, so it doesn't bother me. Guess I'm used to being alone.

[Walra]

Being a composer is a great job - but it is a lonely one. I spent many years as a live performer/songwriter/session player before re-tooling my skills
about 13 years ago when I built my first studio. I tell friends that although I always worked in music - I went from the MOST sociable job in the world (live performance) to the LEAST sociable one! (composing for tv & film). Its the one
complaint I have about the life of a composer. There's little to no contact with clients and now with ftp sites its even more isolating.
However, that said, it can be a wonderfully rewarding career - just not for the faint of heart or the less than 100% dedicated.
Make lots of friends outside the film music world, talk to your wife and kids
as much as possible and enjoy life between contracts! (that is, if you're not in biz development mode!!)

[quantum7]

The ultimate cure to my previous loneliness was meeting the greatest woman on Earth (IMHO)....my wife. :)

[guyB]

Good topic.

Seems it goes with the territory unfortunately..... But it's true there is something not very sane about it, I know that if it wasn't for the daily little things and playing baseball with my 5 year old I'd go nuts. Once I'm outdoors
often forced out, I really appreciate the change. When we're so focussed on a score we can't think of anything else until the project is over. I've realized that and force myself to not become TOO focussed in front of my computer, it's not easy and it doesn't always work but it's good to be conscious of it.

[Hannes_F]

So maybe I am lucky with composing under the week and live gigging at the weekends ... and should not consider changing that ...

[germancomponist]

So maybe I am lucky with composing under the week and live gigging at the weekends ... and should not consider changing that ...

Me too...... :)

[guyB]

So maybe I am lucky with composing under the week and live gigging at the weekends ... and should not consider changing that ...

This is the only reason I keep a steady gig going on on the weekend playing live piano, to keep in touch with reality and people....*()

[Brian W. Ralston]

A couple things one can do to make the situation better and to help friends and family understand the nature of the gig you are on:

1. Get faster at what you do. The faster you can work and produce broadcast quality material...the more time you will have in your day. If you can get to the point where you can work an 8-10 hour day and when that time is up...you STOP. Spend time with the family or significant other when you are done, etc...Sure there are some days where that may not be possible with certain deadlines...but this is the goal anyway.

This also gives you some evening time away from the studio and away from the music. Come back the next day with a fresh ear. This is the one I stuggle with because I am most creative at night and kind of a night owl. But still...limit your working hours. And get faster at what you do so the hours you do compose are more productive.

2. Don't forget to eat and do not eat in your studio. Go on a little walk around your street even if for only 10-15 minutes and take a sandwich with you. Or go eat lunch somewhere else away from the studio like a local park or something.

3. Before you start a long gig or a feature...throw a party or BBQ, etc...for friends and family that don't live with you. Do it like a "going away in composer mode" party. The occasion lets you have a good fun weekend day with those close to you and announces in a fun way that you are going to be busy on a film for a period of time. So...they should all know that you may not answer the phone very much or at all...you may respond to emails late...and you will generally be in hermit mode.

When the gig is done weeks later...throw another BBQ or movie night or party for the same crowd to say "I'm back".

If you do it the right way...it will become a fun little ritual for you and your friends and they will probably become more respectful of your time during your busy days and help support you in staying focused on your gig.

[Von Richter]

Most of my relationships have disintegrated due to my obsession with composing the ultimate cycle of symphonic masterpieces.

The sad part is that I'm actually achieving it, but WHO IS GOING TO CARE? They'll just program Beethoven's 5th again anyway.

It's all a big waste of time and life.

Gotta do it, though. No choice.

[quantum7]

Most of my relationships have disintegrated due to my obsession with composing the ultimate cycle of symphonic masterpieces.


My wife knows I'm obsessed with my music, but also being a musician (a singer) she understands and supports my music 100%. I was very fortunate to meet her.




The sad part is that I'm actually achieving it, but WHO IS GOING TO CARE? They'll just program Beethoven's 5th again anyway.

It's all a big waste of time and life.

I don't think even spending 24 hours a day composing is a waste of a life. God gave you a talent and a desire to create music for the enjoyment of yourself and others. Very few people on this Earth are fortunate enough to ever realize their creative potential.

There is a vitality, a life force, a quickening
That is translated through you into action
And because there is only one of you in all time
This expression is unique. If you block it
It will never exist through any other medium
and be lost.
The world will not hear it.
It is not your business to determine how good it is;
Nor how valuable it is;
Nor how it compares with other expressions.
It is your business to keep it yours,
clearly and directly,
To keep the channel open.
You do not even have to believe in yourself
or your work.
You have to keep open and aware directly to the urges
that motivate you.
Keep the channel open.
No artist is pleased.
There is no satisfaction whatever at any time.
There is only a queer, divine dissatisfaction,
A blessed unrest that keeps us marching
And makes us more alive than the others.

--Martha Graham to Agnes Demille

[Coqui]

Hi, i just finished working on a project that made me stay in my studio for 6 weeks almost all day long....i really had very little chance to go out and see somebody....now that the project is finished i really feel like i've been in Alactraz ..i mean very alienated !!! kind of difficult to get used to reality again!!!!! makes me think of people like elfman, howard, horner....how do they manage this total isolation??????
Have you already looked for a more social job?
Taxi driver, salesclerk, dairyman, who knows...

;)

[Gesticulator01]

3. Before you start a long gig or a feature...throw a party or BBQ, etc...for friends and family that don't live with you. Do it like a "going away in composer mode" party.
When the gig is done weeks later...throw another BBQ or movie night or party for the same crowd to say "I'm back".

If you do it the right way...it will become a fun little ritual for you and your friends and they will probably become more respectful of your time during your busy days and help support you in staying focused on your gig.

- Great idea! I like it!

Can I add an obvious one to some other good advice here? Get some exercise and fresh air. Those 2-3 screens, computers and any other sources of radiation - aren't good for you 6x12 hours a week. Your poor tired brain will thank you. So will your belly.

[nikolas]

Just want to add a bit...

It's not only about film composers, but composers in general.

My summer program is this:
2nd of August I take my wife and my two kids to Heathrow airport. I bid them fairwell! They fly to Greece
25th of August I pick them up from the airport.

In the meantime I'll be working my arse, something like 16-20 hours per day (with proper vitamin medication of course... or a pause of 1 day per week with 24 hours sleep), to complete the work needed for my PhD. A huge 15 minute full orchestral work, which CAN'T be pastiche, or based on any clichés and CAN'T be played with any samples...

It's not 6 weeks, but it's 3, and it's a brilliant plan!

So here's the idea:

When you know you'll be dead busy, just send your wife/kids/family/girlfriend/ all together if you're THAT good, to holidays, while you work. Even if it's not the full time, you'll be 24/7 to yourself, without any guilds because they will ne having the time of their lives...

Only prolbem with the above is the price of porn... :wow:

[Gesticulator01]

What do you mean? Youre on the the internet...
H-Hmmm. So, anyway,

If youre long term partnered like me also, I also think its good to factor in some good male company also, away from your significant other. I dont mean just posting at NS, lol.

People like composers - we're interesting. Problem is, in my experience with my fellows, is that composers dont always like....people.:)

[jovan]

Hi,
i just finished working on a project that made me stay in my studio for 6 weeks almost all day long....i really had very little chance to go out and see somebody....now that the project is finished i really feel like i've been in Alactraz ..i mean very alienated !!! kind of difficult to get used to reality again!!!!! makes me think of people like elfman, howard, horner....how do they manage this total isolation??????

I cannot believe, that this question have a real background.
:-(

[StrangeCat]

Screw that! I have been doing all sorts of things one of them a huge project since febuary and well I still get out and party and date and whatever. seriously you make yourself sick if you just stay in and do nothing .
Go for a run in the morning come back refreshed get workin on the music, go out during the night. YOu'll find that you will do a better job if you get away then come back or make your mind get away some sort of distraction.
When you come back it's better even if you were away for couple of hours.
6 weeks? WTF?
What are you guys Cave Men?:samurai:

[T Parks]

What are you guys Cave Men?:samurai:

Good question.

I'm racking my brains to think of great masters of the craft who just slaved away in isolation year in year out. You get odd cases like Elliot Carter and his first string quartet (a one off for him, I gather) but, by and large, composers are also performers or teachers or artistic administrators or have some other connection with the world besides sitting over their manuscript paper/laptop....their personalities slowly draining away!.

Even Beethoven spent his afternoons wandering around in the woods and then boozing it up some tavern with some mates. Schubert would apparently just work in the morning then spend the rest of the day getting off on caffeine, smoke and hookers. John Cage liked collecting his mushrooms....enough said.

If all you're doing is sitting on your own all day every day with just this web site for company you should seriously start thinking about your mental health. We all need an outlet and human company.

In the film/tv world, I think its unfortunate that we now have the rather soulless and joyless fad of insisting that media composers play creator and engineer and then pipe the end result across the internet.

[aLfR3dd]

Thanks guys...very intersting things here...i was watching time ago the "making the score" of King Kong.....well someone says that James Newton Howard locked himself for 5 weeks for 9 a.m. to 2 a.m. :wow: to write all that music....makes me think that hollywood is very stressful.......

[Will Roget]

Hm.... two things that saved me when I was working 21-hour composition days:

1) Makeshift chin-up bar in/near the studio. If you're gonna be shut in, might as well get some exercise every hour or so, even if just for a minute or two. At the very least it'll keep you awake, plus you're a composer so you're probably not in the best shape anyways :p

2) Work with at least one or two live performers. If anything, it'll give you someone to talk to periodically, sources of inspiration and such. Especially if they're both professionals and your friends, not just session players you might never see again.


And I totally agree about scheduling get-togethers after a major gig is finished, at least to give you something to look forward to. Also, sunlight is incredibly underrated.

[Ashermusic]

While there certainly have been periods of time when I have been so swamped that I was isolated from everyone but my wife and daughter and indeed was unable to pay much attention to them I believe that largely this is avoidable.

In the classical world, Stravinsky kept to a schedule and so lead a very ordered and balanced life. Some people work these fevered tortured hours because they have a romanticized idea that this is how an artist has to be.

In the commercial world if you are super busy then you need to hire orchestrators and sometimes farm some of the work out. There is nothing wrong with that. I have helped other composers who were in that situation.

The best way to avoid that overall is to get an early jump on the work. Many composers I know are procrastinators and invariably that creates unnecessary stress.

[jovan]

Richard Strauss, which was a famous Austrian composer (& also director of the Vienna Opera House) walked every day after lunch two hours with his dog.
He composed a lot of excelent works, was great manager and achieved a very high age.

Let us learn from the old masters!

:-) Jovan

[Soundgram]

Great subject, Do we need a CA ? (like the AA) haha

But really, it's the way you want to work. What I really like about composing for feaures is that you meet so manny people, musicians, studio engineers and others. I like the difrent stages of writing and completing a big project.

and a girlfriend keeps you "sane" in this mad world.

J.

[germancomponist]

I wish myself an instrument like this one...;)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f347/petitprince2006/Pocket-Orchestra.jpg

With this beautiful instrument I could compose also at the beach, and there I would not be then always only alone with my work. ;)

[StrangeCat]

hey just buy a new laptop put Sibelius on it or Finale, for other styles go with Cubase or Ext2, Ableton live, and wala!!! you can go anywhere with it! Careful when at beaches make sure you have something to protect it from the sun and sand! Carry your laptop around at the park sit down and start your new opus from hearing the wind blow through the leaves of the trees...
anywayz yea Laptop When mixing deck it out with the new UAD dongle .;)
later gents
StrangeCat

[germancomponist]

hey just buy a new laptop put Sibelius on it or Finale, for other styles go with Cubase or Ext2, Ableton live, and wala!!! you can go anywhere with it! Careful when at beaches make sure you have something to protect it from the sun and sand! Carry your laptop around at the park sit down and start your new opus from hearing the wind blow through the leaves of the trees...
anywayz yea Laptop When mixing deck it out with the new UAD dongle .;)
later gents
StrangeCat

But a labtop I cannot put into my trouser pocket.....:D

[Gesticulator01]

Hello I am G, and I am a procrastinator.

Times when I have been really hectic have usually followed a month or so when the relevant DVD from a producer has been gathering dust on my desk. So it is definitely a time mangement/procrastination issue for me.

Also learning not to bite off work more than I can chew on, and managing work flows a few months in advance. Planing ahead when you procrastinate is - a waste of time.

[StrangeCat]

I only want a PSP to play Final Fantasy Tactics again. Only if I ever had the time to play it!
yea your right it won't fit in your pocket. seriously how would use that thing to compose? I mean yea you can use there new cable and hook it up to big screen and all that but serisouly you have to be hitting buttons to compose with? is there a mouse type thing? Who knows:D
Pretty cool idea though. Just give me pen and paper and I am good i can crumple the paper to fit in my pocket LOL!

[guyB]

A couple things one can do to make the situation better and to help friends and family understand the nature of the gig you are on:


3. Before you start a long gig or a feature...throw a party or BBQ, etc...for friends and family that don't live with you. Do it like a "going away in composer mode" party. The occasion lets you have a good fun weekend day with those close to you and announces in a fun way that you are going to be busy on a film for a period of time. So...they should all know that you may not answer the phone very much or at all...you may respond to emails late...and you will generally be in hermit mode.

When the gig is done weeks later...throw another BBQ or movie night or party for the same crowd to say "I'm back".



I do a lot of commercials, so this means I'd have to through a BBQ every 2 days! Wohoo!

[Gesticulator01]

You can turn around a commercial in two days? good for you!

Takes me at least a week - rough mock-up, getting the client to agree to the direction, final direction of music, production, final edits, sit in with engineer at the end. Weekly BBQs for me there! Sometimes only once a fortnight - especially if I have other things going on at the same time..:o

I've read all of this thread. My conclusion is that, after a little self-examination - the couple of times when i have really had to bunker down and get things finished over 2-3 weeks ( to the extent that I have had to put the rest of my life, other than my girlfriend, on hold) would have been heavily alleviated by early planning and sticking to it.

In the meantime, till I get my working hours srted out in a disciplined way - its nice to show your friends your not ignoring them. Still a good idea Brian R!!

[guyB]

You can turn around a commercial in two days? good for you!



Yes, I could, but doesn't mean it will be the chosen cut at the end, I should specify that, anyway that's the system in which I'm in, and you still get paid if it's not chosen, although not the BIG prize... But it's not unusual to have a 1 min fully orchestrated commercial to be submitted in 24 hours, I'm now use to it but it took some getting use to.

[Gesticulator01]

Thats interesting. You get paid some to go in a pool and if your music is selected, you win the ad contract? Do you you know how many guys youre competing against when you submit your music?

[ed hamilton]

That's just the normal jingle house setup.
Several composers work up a jingle. Session players get paid jingle "demo" rate.
One of those gets picked and everybody who participated in the winning track gets paid full union card rate when it goes final.

[JohnnyP]

I think Brian R and Will have hit it on the head. Also, during a long term project, I insist on meal times with my wife talking, not losing hours in front of the TV watching a movie or DVR. Hearing what's going on in my wife's life during a gig keeps me reminded that my client, the gig, even I, are NOT the 'center' of the universe.

I also plan my social calender while I work. I may not be able be able to go to a single engagement, but having on my calender gives me HOPE that there's life after the gigs over. You'd be surprised what looking forward to party with friends or even the monthly potluck at church can do for your morale during a long gig.

[guyB]

I was thinking of building a studio right on the beach, girls, BBQ and beer included :D

Well maybe when I have the money....:mad:

[Gesticulator01]

I was thinking of building a studio right on the beach, girls, BBQ and beer included :D

Well maybe when I have the money....:mad:

Maybe you could hang out at the "jingle house" studio - sounds like they'd be loaded. Sorry to ask again a bit OT, and hope you dont mind me asking - but does that system work out ok in the medium/long run? (For you, that is..)

[guyB]

Maybe you could hang out at the "jingle house" studio - sounds like they'd be loaded. Sorry to ask again a bit OT, and hope you dont mind me asking - but does that system work out ok in the medium/long run? (For you, that is..)

Yeah I'm very happy doing this, if you get a winner now and then you could make a good living. In my case I think I have specific qualities that the company appreciates, so I think it depends on your skills, but it's still a very competitive business. Also the longer you do this the easier and faster you get, which then gives you more time for BBQs:D This is not my full job, I like to work in different areas, but it really depends if it works for you, I don't mind having 24 hours to do a 1 min full orchestrated track, however, I'm not as good with pop drums, elec guitars, synth and that type of stuff but I still do them and constantly learning and increasing the lib I need. It's a GREAT school to learn to write fast and good. I think I went from taking 1 week to 1 day to do the exact same quality of work. After that if someone takes a turn in film music he will be use to working fast, a good advantage.

[Gesticulator01]

Cool! Good luck with it.

[Coqui]

Richard Strauss, which was a famous Austrian composer (& also director of the Vienna Opera House) walked every day after lunch two hours with his dog.
Thomas Mann too (http://store.doverpublications.com/0486416003.html).
Making music is better than driving heavy trucks or milking cows at 4 AM, there are little doubts about that.
But too much intellectual work is bad, too much manual work is bad.
Compromise is necessary.

Otium cum dignitate.

;)

[rarnest]

Aiee. I'm on the other end of the stick .. well used to working alone, wonderful support .. and looking for film projects.

My second CD release is pending (Haworth Suite .. sometime this fall); you can hear Liquescence on Rhapsody (available from CD Baby) but career building is moving slowly.

Any ideas on priming the pump?