Looking For Advice Re Black Bass

[jeffn1]

Scarbees new bass instrument looks amazing.

I am looking for a more rocking bass. To my ears, version number 3 pretty much hits it. It has the "bite" I prefer.

The only thing that makes me wonder is whether the string noise in this version is too prominent. I know I should "trust my ears", but, I don't fully. I don't want to use EQ to get rid of it because it will likely eliminate the very quality that draws me to that version of the Black Bass.

So, I was hoping some of the knowledgeable people here could take a listen and comment on whether they think the string noise is perfectly appropriate or whether it might be too much.

Thanks.

jeffn1

[tfishbein82]

Scarbees new bass instrument looks amazing.

I am looking for a more rocking bass. To my ears, version number 3 pretty much hits it. It has the "bite" I prefer.

The only thing that makes me wonder is whether the string noise in this version is too prominent. I know I should "trust my ears", but, I don't fully. I don't want to use EQ to get rid of it because it will likely eliminate the very quality that draws me to that version of the Black Bass.

So, I was hoping some of the knowledgeable people here could take a listen and comment on whether they think the string noise is perfectly appropriate or whether it might be too much.

Thanks.

jeffn1
Have you thought about the DI version with something like FreeAmp or their Bass Amp sims (http://www.frettedsynth.com/)?

[jeffn1]

I thought about it (and I do have guitar rig). But, I don't trust my skill with the amp sim (plus there is the factor of additional CPU). It is a good point, though.

jeffn1

[damoy]

I'm not particularly bothered by the string sounds. I think they won't be overpowering in a full mix and it give the bass character IMO. I just purchased the DI version yesterday and played with it a little last night. I'm no GR guru, but I'm running it through GR2, and it sounds great so far. FWIW, I did toy with the eq a little, and it seemed that I could lessen the string noise without adversely affecting the sound to much.

[jeffn1]

I'm not particularly bothered by the string sounds. I think they won't be overpowering in a full mix and it give the bass character IMO. I just purchased the DI version yesterday and played with it a little last night. I'm no GR guru, but I'm running it through GR2, and it sounds great so far. FWIW, I did toy with the eq a little, and it seemed that I could lessen the string noise without adversely affecting the sound to much.

So, you think you can get a real good rock sound similar to version 3 by running the DI version it through Guitar Rig 2?

jeffn1

[koolkeys]

If you're after more of a rock sound, wait just a bit for them to release Red Bass. It's the J-Slap and Fingered basses, with the Black Bass scripts.

I personally have the DI version of Black Bass, and couldn't be happier. Just download Boogex and some bass guitar impulses and play with it. It sounds great with a good amp, and you still have the freedom of the clean version.

Excellent product. And I think Red Bass will be the same, and maybe more suited for you.

Brent

[jeffn1]

If you're after more of a rock sound, wait just a bit for them to release Red Bass. It's the J-Slap and Fingered basses, with the Black Bass scripts.

I personally have the DI version of Black Bass, and couldn't be happier. Just download Boogex and some bass guitar impulses and play with it. It sounds great with a good amp, and you still have the freedom of the clean version.

Excellent product. And I think Red Bass will be the same, and maybe more suited for you.

Brent

But, I guess I like the option of the greater articulations in Black Bass, even if I don't know precisely which articulations are left out.

jeffn1

[OldGeezer]

To answer your question, surprisingly there doesn't seem to be a fret-noise volume, but there are knobs hidden under the hood (from the dropdown menu) that reduce the occurences of those noises to nothing if you want. I think both string and bridge noises are adjustable by percentage of occurence (I don't have it loaded up right now so my memory may be sketchy). There are some nice options pop-ups from that one menu. I'm quite pleased with Amped #2. I don't think it necessarily has to be used for heavy rock either (though I do really dig that skull).

Yeah, boogex is nice as it has 3 bass cabinets to select in that dropdown menu. I'm still glad I went with the amped version though.

Edit: I just checked the manual. I'm wrong. They actually have different types of releases (noisy/light/lightest) and you can adjust which ones are used (and by what percentage you hear them) which, I think, is way better than a volume control. There's even a keyswitch to choose release types. Nice! And I think the slides are superior in Black Bass...don't know about any other articulations.

[jeffn1]

To answer your question, surprisingly there doesn't seem to be a fret-noise volume, but there are knobs hidden under the hood (from the dropdown menu) that reduce the occurences of those noises to nothing if you want. I think both string and bridge noises are adjustable by percentage of occurence (I don't have it loaded up right now so my memory may be sketchy). There are some nice options pop-ups from that one menu. I'm quite pleased with Amped #2. I don't think it necessarily has to be used for heavy rock either (though I do really dig that skull).

Yeah, boogex is nice as it has 3 bass cabinets to select in that dropdown menu. I'm still glad I went with the amped version though.

Edit: I just checked the manual. I'm wrong. They actually have different types of releases (noisy/light/lightest) and you can adjust which ones are used (and by what percentage you hear them) which, I think, is way better than a volume control. There's even a keyswitch to choose release types. Nice! And I think the slides are superior in Black Bass...don't know about any other articulations.

Well, maybe Mr. Scarbee can answer which release was used in the version 3 demo: noisy, light or lightest? And any thoughts on whether bringing it down one notch will moderate the finger noise somewhat.

jeffn1

[OldGeezer]

For sure the loud noises are from the noisiest group. You can disable those ones by setting it to "tight" mode in the options. Then you're left with the medium and light noises and two knobs to adjust how often you hear them. A light release sample is way better than a heavy release with the volume turned down. So you can choose how "tight" you play right up to the point where you hear no releases if you want (or only the lightest...now and then).

They really went to town on that bass.

[jeffn1]

Thanks, you OldGeezer.:p

jeffn1

[kotori]

Regarding string noises I think OldGeezer put it very well - being able to select the proportion of different types of release samples instead of just setting different volumes on a single type of release adds variation and gives more realistic results. In addition to that there will soon be an update to the Black Bass script that provides finer control over the volume of different types of noise samples, so no worries.

Nils L
Black Bass Script Developer

[dewdman42]

I gotta say I was a little concerned about all the fret noise too from the demos that are on scarbee's site. Would love to hear some demos where it has been turned down. I'm starting to get more and more confident that BlackBass will be the bass library to have, especially at only $99. I plan on buying IK's FX pack anyway, that includes Ampeg...so I will have a lot of flexibility on tone....being mostly interested in various flavors of rock music. Having all the articulations and ease of playing them will be key. Up until now I've heard really good things about Trilogy with Ampeg as a combo, but that it requires a lot of programming time to get good bass tracks and its also quite expensive.

I would rather learn how to "play" something like BlackBass and then I can intuitively lay down bass tracks by feel (eventually, once I have mastered some playing techniques). Frankly, I just thought the audio demos on his site were on the funky side. He is working on a rock demo he says, which I'm looking forward to. I'm sure Ampeg will beef up the tone all I need, it was just kinda getting down to the fret noise of which there is a lot on the audio demo and once i become aware of it, I couldn't get my mind off it and hated it(the fret noise).

[Tomdini]

I've recorded a lot of bassists over the years... and ya know, basses are invariably noisy instruments. Lots of buzz, rattle, fret noise, strings slapping the pick-ups, fingers sliding and repositioning all over the place, little pops and clicks the origins of which you can't seem to pinpoint... bassists are noisy creatures. Funk/slap bassists or anyone playing complex lines are worse, as the intricacies of the playing create many more opportunities for noises.

Fingered bass parts are always noisier than picked parts, to my ears, though picked basses produce their own unique types of performance sounds.

It's usually pretty loud, too. In a mix, you don't really notice it. In a solo (or if you isolate the track in question), you can hear all of that nuance quite clearly. Gives a lot of life and character to the track... for the most part, it's unavoidable. That's the nature of the instrument.

Bass samples have been pretty good for a while, but the key element that always gives away the performance as sampled and programmed (to me, personally) is lack of noise. Even a really good virtuoso bassist who plays relatively cleanly produces noises. Sloppier (more soulful? ;)) bassists produce more noise... but that noise, the sounds of manipulating the instrument and performing the music, is always there. You shouldn't hate it and try to remove it from your track. It's essential to realism.

There's no such thing as a bass track with only the pure tones of the string vibrations coming through. Unless it's a synth bass.

-Tom

[dewdman42]

certainly, but there's also such a thing as too much fret noise.

[zvenx]

Tom, I have to agree with you. I play bass and never noticed any loud fret noise or anything like that in the demo, it just sounds like how I am accustomed to hearing bass when I record myself playing.
rsp

[SCARBEE]

Hi Guys,

In demo I use pickup noises too (added to strings on hard velocities) - and also in end where I use pickup hits as a percussive effect between notes.
Chic bassist Bernard Edwards used this technique a lot - playing flamingo stuff in between notes.

You can set auto-pickup hits to be zero and just don't hit A#0 (pickup claps)

and as Old Geezer says - you can set release to TIGHT (fast dampend strings) or set to LOOSE and a 85% towards Tight. (15% chance of loose release).

And remember that you can use a key-trigger to alternate between TIGHT/LOOSE and also use CC4 to control the auto-pickup hits.
So no matter what default setting you make you can always make exceptions during the song - that's what i do myslef sometimes. ex. have overall a TIGHT performance - but then in fast runs or agressive parts add more noise.

So bass can be clean as you prefer..:)