Collaboration, or the lack thereof....

[Joanne Babunovic]

As sample libaries become increasingly realistic and computer-based music technology improves, music composition and production continues to move toward autonomy. One person can do everything -compose, arrange, play, record. Are works not as good as they could be because in many cases we no longer have live musicians, engineers, producers etc. adding their unique creativity to the mix - at least to the degree they use to?

Studies say the group produces a better end-product than the lone individual.

[greatzed]

I think some people worry way too much about sample quality than actual composition itself. It\'s not a bad thing to have exeptionally good samples, of course, as long as you don\'t rely on them too much. Many can\'t afford players/engineers/studios so it\'s a good thing, in a way, to have something (like VSL) to turn to.

[JonP]

Guess it depends on the music. If you\'re a very capable pianist and like writing piano works, I don\'t think its a problem. If you want to compose a chamber work or a symphony or similar, go ahead but you\'re going to need real musicians to play it to full effect. Mocking it up on a computer isn\'t really going to do it justice by comparison.

For film and TV stuff I think you can get away with working on your own quite comfortably now, providing you\'re savvy with all the various elements involved from composing through to engineering. You will still need feedback from the project managers, directors and producers so its unlikely your ever left to do your own thing. Of course, the grander sale projects and movies are probably going to need real musicians.

If you work in the pop side of things then I think multi-input is pretty essential.

But for me personally, the need to work and perform with real musicians is of the utmost importance. I went to the Purcell school from a very young age, performing daily with other musicians and it is the absolute essential ingredient for me.

[Scott Cairns]

Hi Joanne, I agree with you in that collaboration can inspire us to \"aim higher\" than when we work alone. Thats more along the lines of working with other musos.

Even working in a company where you are the resident composer can inspire you to produce better work as you are THE music person there. Its what you do. You are part of a team and your job is simple. Make the best music you can. I think a lot of respect is gained from that because no one else in that environment does what you do. It makes you feel better to know that people look to you for all things musical.

Also, I have to smirk a little sometimes when people are always looking for a sample library of this instrument, that instrument.... (I\'m guilty too!) But hey, what happened to recording a real live musician? Imagine for a moment what ONE violin player and ONE french horn, layered in with your samples, could do for your orchestral piece....

I have already started making enquiries at the local uni for student players. So far, most seem flattered that I have even asked. The beauty of it is that in another year or two these students are likely to be playing in a symphony orchestra and I would have to mortage my house to hire them. images/icons/smile.gif

I also think that you always learn something when working with someone else. Be they a muso, engineer, producer whatever. Even if they are bad you STILL learn something.

THe other thing that worries me little is that you have to be pretty technically literate these days to be a working composer. I know that midi and samples have given us a lot of freedom but I really feel for the talented composer who just doesnt have a technical bone in their body. It hardly seems fair that they should have to learn about midi, sequencing, quantizing, bit depth, sample rates, eq, compression, early reflections, etc, etc. Not to mention if they have already spent years learning counterpoint, harmony and so on. I think brain surgeons do less study!

Anyway, just my errant thoughts.... images/icons/wink.gif

[Alexcremers]

Reality? Many here do the lone individual virtual orchestra thing.

In their free time the same people listen to the real thing. That is reality.


------------------------------
Morpheus...ahum...sorry...Alex

[Bruce A. Richardson]

I have this conversation with colleagues all the time. All of us are becoming more and more isolated.

Even though I still record some things live, I record a lot less live than ever. Twelve years ago, my studio could accommodate a pop session, easily. Now, I have one room with a vocal booth, and do four times as much work. But 90% of it is synthesized/sampled.

It does get lonely. Really, I have been in this same room pretty much 12+ hours a day for 12 years. I get out, but I miss that collaboration with my fellow studio rats. Everyone I know feels the same way, but the economic reality is that you either do it this way or you find another way to make a living. You cannot make enough money to survive by working the way we worked before...it\'s not time efficient. Also, clients have gotten too accustomed to everything being virtual, and asking for major changes right up until the drop dead time.

Isn\'t it a little ironic that we\'ve all essentially trapped ourselves into lives that look more like monks than musicians? Probably the biggest reason music was more attractive to me than other options in the art world was the collaborative piece. Now, unless I\'m out playing a gig, I end up playing with myself most of the time. And you know what they say about that...

[P de Caumette]

I totally agree with you Joanne. The possibilities of a modern sample library are priceless. It is a dream come true for composers, arrangers ...etc

However nothing can replace the input of a talented musician, the unexpected ideas coming from the interaction of different personalities.
Not to mention that many music genres are based upon interaction (jazz, afro cuban, african, blues, rock ....)

So we end up on our own, in our little cubicles and over time group music becomes an old memory.
I think that if the trend keeps going that way, musicianship in general will suffer.

Now is the age of the computer, of the internet. We are all connected to the machine, to the beast.
I love it but boy, do I miss the hours jamming away with a bunch of great fellow musicians images/icons/frown.gif

And yet, I don\'t see why we can\'t take advantage of the ease of access to the fast internet connections to reintroduce collaborations on a different level. Nothing\'s easier than to send files from Tokyo to NY in a matter of minutes (Tob, you will receive something by the end of this week, promise images/icons/wink.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Sure we all have to make a living, keep the expenses as low as possible but I\'d be willing to give a reasonable share of a budget to have the excitment of being surprised back into my music. On the other end, if the music is good, I\'d be more than happy to throw in a few guitar tracks, groves, harmonies ...etc into somebody else\'s music without charging an arm and a leg for it.

I guess it still is up to us to change the current trend and take control of the computer age.

Revolt before it is too late images/icons/grin.gif

[Runyon]

Originally posted by Joanne Babunovic:
Are works not as good as they could be because in many cases we no longer have live musicians, engineers, producers etc. adding their unique creativity to the mix - at least to the degree they use to?

Studies say the group produces a better end-product than the lone individual. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">The answer to your question is an unequivocal YES. The end product is almost never as good as it could be because of this masturbatory process that has developed over the last decade.

The old cliche\'....\"jack of all trades, master of none\", surely has taken root. People can kid themselves if they want. But I constantly hear either: sterile compositions, nicely produced,...good compositions, poorly arranged....good arrangements, poorly mixed....good ideas, poorly performed.

One thing I notice, even in the unsigned band world, is that while an artist may have produced a CD or 2 on their own in the past, many....even though they have the skills to self-produce....will opt to work with others for future projects. And these are people with little or no money backing them up.

Musicians and composers are often control-freaks by nature when it comes to their recordings. I suspect many would like to come into everyone\'s living room or car and tweak the stereo before putting in the CD.

\"Letting go\" is a good thing.

I also have to disagree with the consensus point that \"there isn\'t enough time\" to work with others. In many cases, there isn\'t enough time to work alone. I realize this comes down to the price-point that an individual is working in.

But the original question you asked has a definite answer. YES!! Works are not as good as they could be. Collaboration is essential to making good music. It\'s the same necessity as good love-making, or sharing food.

[Rob Elliott]

Hi Joanne,

Another great thread my friend. This is a real issue with me. I agree with Bruce, with the \'expectations\' nowadays - you almost can\'t do anything else in the real world. Would all our music be better if we all did more collaborating - we would all probably agree. The challenge is time.

Recently, a violinist friend of mine heard one of my tunes and suggested he \'lay down\' the sampled solo violin part. When we ran the tape, the geek-o-rama changed everything - for the better (fewer notes, more intrinsically \'violin-like\'). Sometimes I wonder how \'in-bred Jed\' I get doing solo so often. Also, every part (or section) is \'played by me\'. I think sometimes certain colors are missing. I find myself listening now to the playing style (not just articulations) of various recorded acoustic instruments and then try to imitate.

It\'s is a reality, though, the challenge for all of us is to find ways to keep re-inventing ourselves - all by ourselves.

BTW, if you want to check out this violin part, it is at

www.robelliottmusic.com (\"http://www.robelliottmusic.com\")

\"religous/Hie to Kolob\"

See ya,

Rob

[Nick Batzdorf]

On the other hand, I find the process of writing this way much more satisfying. Plus my fingers find things my brain wouldn\'t find on its own (and vice versa).

It\'s funny how this has evolved. 25 years ago, anyone who worked in pencil rather than pen was a totally reprehensible sissy, and there simply was no such thing as a concert score before about 1980!

[SteveHanlon]

Well, I experience this isolation as well. Luckily, my wife plays flute and we can play together. For Live recording, I either record my guitars or her flute and that\'s it. I live in a small town in Taiwan and the musicians around here aren\'t worth recording in my opinion (at least I haven\'t met any yet).

But let me also say, though this isn\'t jamming in the same room, I have more than once asked others here if they wanted to collaborate via internet.
What\'s stopping a forum of a bunch of musicians from collaborating? And I have been politely turned down or just ignored everytime I bring it up.

It\'s amazing to think we are closer than ever with the internet yet have built such walls of isolation around ourselves.

I know internet collaboration isn\'t the same thing as jamming in the same room. But just think of the growth one experiences when working with other musicians, in the same room or out of the country. And as musicians and sequencing tweak masters we can share the burden of the tedious work.

We could start unisolating ourselves right here and now.

[Joanne Babunovic]

Hi greatzed,

I remember when at age 16 I spent every cent I had (7 years of babysitting money) to produce one bad song. I did not then, (and still don’t) have the ability to hear how all the parts sound together in my head, and therefore heard the song with all the parts played together for the first time in the studio at final recording. The musicians (a cool bunch of older guys that told me I had a good song, when I did not) helped me out with some changes, but needless to say, I walked away realizing that I needed a way to work on each part ahead of time, and a way to hear the other parts played at the same time. I wondered how I could ever afford a studio, enginner, and musicians, simply to get all the parts right. Even if I could afford that, I was uncomfortable with all those people standing around while I tried different things and rewrote. I felt hopeless for a long time.

You can imagine how my world changed when I discovered Midi. I didn’t care that the instruments (sound modules at that time) sounded horrible. I could compose and try different parts while hearing the other parts for practically free, and nobody had to hear the composition process. And to top it all off, since the late 90’s, I now can buy samples that sound very close to real instruments. It’s all so unbelievable, and had I been born just 20 years earlier, it’s likely I would have missed this. You’re right on….no way can anyone in their right mind ever question the validity of electronic music. I’m just wondering if my and your projects are less than they could be because it’s an “all me” or “all you” production thanks to Midi and great libraries like VSL.

Hi JonP,

That’s a good point. The type of music/composition does factor into this issue. And yes, like it or not, if you are working in the professional realm, you are going to get feedback, like it or not.

But what makes working with live musicians so essential to you? Is there something they add other than the obvious of a real musical instrument sounding better than a sample library?


Hi Scott,

You’ve added two other components I had not thought of. Opportunity lost from not learning from those who’s specialty is engineering, producing etc. Opportunity lost when we sink all our precious creative energy into the technical non-composition portion of working on our own.

Hi Alex,

Good point. Even though we work and compose alone and don’t have others to contribute to our virtual works, we still can listen to compositions that did have the old fashion collaborative base, and that should help us maintain some resemblance of reality, and what is good or bad.

Hi Bruce,

I never considered that economics and new client expectations now make the lone composer/producer a necessity. I guess this thread is a moot point for commercial professionals who need to pay the rent. Even if collaboration would make a piece of music better, the client would undoubtedly judge the added cost and time not worth it.

...and if all of the sudden, all the lone computer-based composers across the world mysteriously start going blind....we’ll know why. images/icons/smile.gif

Hi Patrick,

Excellent point. We are better positioned to collaborate now than we were before. Albeit we don’t get the social gathering time, it’s far easier to send an MP3 to your guitar buddy across the world to add some tracks than schedule a face-to-face. Now the question is, why aren’t we doing that more?

Hi Runyon,

I was not aware that artists who have/can produce on their own opt eventually for collaboration. Pretty much says it all – especially for the genre of less time/cost sensitive side of music that maybe has a little more time than the TV jingle composer.

Hi Rob,

Ha! So you have a real-life example of how much someone else can add to your compositions. My bet is your violin player, even using your string samples and not a real violin, could have added life and color you could not. We can do this type of collaboration pretty effortlessly, and wonder why we don’t? Yes, it takes some extra time, but not much. Send an MP3 to a musician, one version with you playing their instrument, one version with their instrument turned off and see what they can do!

I again listened to Hie to Kolob – focusing on the violin. Very nice, and it would be interesting to hear your original version.

Hi Nick,

Thanks for coming in off the courts to say hi. Why is it I always need you to explain things?
Is that really true? It was considered below par to rewrite? Why? What do you mean there was no such thing as a concert score before 1980? Maybe I don’t understand what a concert score is.

Hi Marty,

Great Challenge. But how would it work? Could it be done on NS? One approach: Lead composer posts their finished composition in MP3. For example, a composition that has a piano lead with bass, drums, strings, brass, guitar. The original composer would also post versions that leave one of those instruments out. Others take their best shot at re-adding that instrument. We could even get more complex. Original composer could post versions that leave out two or more instruments for those that want to have more arranging/composition challenge.

[Nick Batzdorf]

Thanks for coming in off the courts to say hi. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">images/icons/smile.gif


It was considered below par to rewrite? Why?<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Not to rewrite - as in \"revise\" - just to use pencil. Real men and women supposedly just heard it all and wrote it down in ink. Macho!


What do you mean there was no such thing as a concert score before 1980? Maybe I don’t understand what a concert score is. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Concert means \"not transposed,\" i.e. the horns aren\'t written in F, clarinet in Bb, etc. It just wasn\'t done! Don\'t ask me why, because it\'s just one more thing to make your brain hurt (not that it\'s all that difficult).

What I\'m getting at is that - Stravinsky aside - even writing at the piano used to be frowned upon. Today there isn\'t much point in writing anything down when you can just play it in. I think most people scribble things down as an aid while sequencing, but that\'s about it.

[Runyon]

Originally posted by Joanne Babunovic:
Hi greatzed,

I remember when at age 16 ... I was uncomfortable with all those people standing around while I tried different things and rewrote. I felt hopeless for a long time.

<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Ahhhhh. That\'s another thing entirely. Nobody likes \"composing\" on the spot in a studio with the meter running. That speaks more to experience and confidence.

Not many 16 year-olds would have the chops to compose on the spot like that.

Check out this link, and scroll to the bottom for the last 2 questions, if the world of orchestral music interests you. EPS is the current music director of the Los Angeles Philharmonic. Yes, they too use midi. But it\'s a means to an end.

http://studiofornewmusic.com/saloneninterview.htm (\"http://studiofornewmusic.com/saloneninterview.htm\")

[eliam]

Ah... collaboration... It is is for me a central endeavour as well as a great delusion. It seems almost impossible to have a group of individuals who will be strong enough to hold and protect the harmony within and between themselves... I don\'t feel this to be normal on a cosmic level, and I know that the cause of this semingly increasing fracture between and within individuals has nothing to do whatsoever with anything outside the individual himself. We are isolated because this is an upside down world, but still I am deeply hopeful for our future!

As those tools for composers, man,they are the greatest benediction one could desire imo... Without them we would have to hear everything in our heads and write it down on paper with the hope that an orchestra would someday play it in concert a few times (while we\'re alive if possible!!).

[SteveHanlon]

Great Challenge. But how would it work? Could it be done on NS? One approach: Lead composer posts their finished composition in MP3. For example, a composition that has a piano lead with bass, drums, strings, brass, guitar. The original composer would also post versions that leave one of those instruments out. Others take their best shot at re-adding that instrument. We could even get more complex. Original composer could post versions that leave out two or more instruments for those that want to have more arranging/composition challenge.
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Yeah, for instance.

It could work any way the people involved want to work.

One could write an accompaniment part from which someone else could compose a melody. Or post a melody and someone else could compose the accompaniment.

Or it could be a compose eight bars project and pass it along?

How we work can be tweaked from group to group from project to project. But that we actually take some time away from the \'deadline\' jobs and interact as musicians influencing musicians is important.

I\'m not saying we neglect legal issues. of course this is a part of the creative collaboration in today\'s world. But we could still just write and play together free from deadlines and fees.

I again offer my guitar (classical, jazz and bit of rock) skills and my wife\'s classical flute skills to anyone that would like to do a collaboration/virtual jam.

You can email me at rshanlon2NOSPAM@mac.com
(Just remove the NOSPAM part)

images/icons/smile.gif

[JonFairhurst]

That\'s it! We need low-latency video/audio/midi conferencing! (In fact I\'ve wondered how MidiOverLan would work long distance.)

Regarding collaboration vs. isolation, the nice thing that you get with isolation is a purity of vision. You avoid the designed-by-committee problem. But you also risk a monotonic voice. The best situation is when a group of musicians seeks the same goal. A combination of unity and diversity. But even the best groups can peak and go stale, especially if they try to do the same old thing over and over.

But if you think about it, the great composers all worked solo. I can\'t think of any composing duos before Rogers & Hammerstein (and even with them one wrote music, the other lyrics). So who was the the earliest composer team???

It looks to me like composing in solitude is the norm. It\'s when we perform all of the parts of a piece in isolation that we\'re whacked.

[JonP]

Originally posted by Joanne Babunovic:
Hi greatzed,


But what makes working with live musicians so essential to you? Is there something they add other than the obvious of a real musical instrument sounding better than a sample library?


<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi again Joanne,

Its simply the pleasure of working with top drawer musicians who help drive your performance standard to the best it can get. If you hand them a piece of music, you know you have to have been through it thoroughly to ensure everything is to the absolute best standard you can make it otherwise they will be quick to point out its flaws. There\'s no scrimping on quality. If you play with them, they demand the same quality from you - they INSIST on a standard and the pleasure is meeting that demand. If you\'re a very experienced performer, I think you\'ll know just what I mean.

With samples, its all to easy to be asked to write a pastiche rip-off of some big score for some wannabe director and whack out a bombastic catchy tune on the SAM Horns. Add a few bone and timp grunts below and season with some trem strings and harp glisses. Yawn - done to death years back and still done to death because of directors insisting on the same old sh** today.

But it doesn\'t drive you to your best musical standard. That\'s why I turned my back on scoring a lot for TV some time ago. I\'d rather write an opera, or even a piano bagatelle anyday, and I certainly wouldn\'t ever dream of sitting there laboriously punching the score into a computer hour after hour when I can sit in the garden and scribble it all with pen and paper.

Still.......needs must. If you earn part of your living from it, as I do, then you have to be competent with using sample libraries in the DAW of your choice. You need to have some engineering skills and be able to score in all sorts of styles when asked. That\'s the way things have panned out now.

But who wouldn\'t rather have real, quality musicians perform their music?. Who woud rather jam along with their dinky programmed in accompaniement than with good performers. Only those who aren\'t really confident or experienced performers or composers I suppose.

I like to compose, to teach performance dip students and do a lot of performing. If I ever found myself locked away in front of my computers for hours on end every day, day after day, I\'d think things were pretty bleak.

[Garius]

Hello Joanna and everyone,
Great discussion.

I too have been isolated within my studio realm. Personally, This is especially difficult for 2 reasons.
1. I am a hopeless extravert and love people (I thrive off interacting and communing with others.)
2. I am a jazz musician, and of course, this is a form of music that requires improv and interaction between players.

Luckily, the composer in me loves working with MIDI and the wonderful libraries.

I also have been utilizing MP3\'s for collaborating via email. It works particularly well with solo parts and tracking because the two parties don\'t need to be using the same software. However, for larger collaborations I use Pro Tools and Sonar bundle files and collaborate via snail mail.

Since I live in NY and have access to the wonderful community of fine musicians that live and work here. Sometimes, colleagues that live in less ideal music areas will send me reference tracks and have me record a particular \"live\" instrument for them. (I invite anyone that may live in a remote area to contact me if you need a particular live instrument. Perhaps we could collaborate long distance. Since 911 the New York economy has been in the toilet and the fine musicians here are affordable and appreciate the work.)

I am also an arranger so I can notate or compose a playable part if needed as well. (Sometimes, people not trained in writing for real instuments will write a MIDI part that doesn\'t translate well and may need to be reconfigured.)

Anyway, I just wanted to share that for me collaborating is essential. And with our new technology we are learning new ways to interact and create together. Let\'s keep trying!

Garius Hill
producer NYC

[Joanne Babunovic]

Hi Nick,

Thank you for the explanations. You reminded me how “so meant for music” some people are. Hear everything in your head and then write once in pen! Oh lord!

Runyon,
I’ve often wondered what classical composers think about midi. It was quite thrilling to see Esa-Pekka Salonen talk about midi’s influence in his world, but then again, why would he not mention this as a profound force? Not sure I completely followed his thoughts on how midi is influencing music. He appears to be focusing more on rhythm-structure - I will go back and re-read.

Eliam:
You said “As those tools for composers, man,they are the greatest benediction one could desire imo... Without them we would have to hear everything in our heads and write it down on paper with the hope that an orchestra would someday play it in concert a few times (while we\'re alive if possible!!). “
Amazing to consider that all other composers before us suffered this way. At least those who cannot hear everything at once in their head or did not have the means to hire/produce with real musicians. Very sobering.

Hi Steve,
Appears there are many workable alternatives for internet collaboration. And how fun it would be to hear the lead composer’s original finished project he/she produced alone, and compare it to the collaborative product. Duly noted that you offer guitar and flute. Those instruments are particularly beautiful together and my guess is you have some nice works lying around.

JonP,
Thanks for the very eloquent and thoughtful explanation. There’s something to be said for reaching your personal best, and how could we ever think this could be achieved in a solo realm? Maybe back in mozart\'s days, but now, with all of the variables/skills in music-making today, common sense that isolation inhibits growth. Thanks again for the additional reply.

Garius,
I’m probably behind the curve, but you’ve just presented some ideas that have so much possibility. Thank you for taking the time to spell out the interaction alternatives. May I ask a question? Say you receive an MP3, one version with a sampled horn (to show a real horn player how things are to generally sound, but improvising encouraged, of course) and version two of that same MP3 without the horn. What is the process going forward. You have a live Horn player play into microphone and record analog the live horn, probably with MP3 without the sampled horn playing into his headphones…and then what? Would you need to mix and cut the master right there, which would be the original Mp3 (no horn version) with the live horn added, or is there a way to convert the real analog horn track into digital so that I could mix in the final real horn levels myself. Sorry you got stuck with the “recording 101” question.

[Garius]

Joanne,

Good question.

First, you are right to send two files, one without the mock-up sampled horn part and the other with the sound, as an example.

The next step would be, if you already had sent me the notated part he would record his part using headphones to hear the reference tracks. As I have already mentioned I could notate a part if necessary(This can also work without written parts, for example, a jazz sax improvised section. or a drummer.) BTW, I have V-drums here in the studio.

After the musician\'s part has been recorded, there are several ways it can be delivered back to you. If you needed it fast, I could send it in a higher bit form of MP3 and then you would import that to the proper place within your recording software and have the luxury of mixing it yourself. Of course, the track could also be sent back to you on a CD as a Wave file. I have found MP3 encoding at 192 bps quite good and exceptable for most applications. Keep in mind that in many cases this could be a fairly small file. Let\'s say it\'s a cello solo and is 16 bars long. Being that it would be a mono file and short makes it manageable for Internet. Of course, longer parts are possible too it just increases the download time. Extremely long parts would be better sent overnight mail.

Garius

[Joanne Babunovic]

Hello Garius,

Of course, covert the analog recording into a wav file and then onto CD....

I need to thank you for answering such an obvious question with such kind patience.

[SteveHanlon]

I\'d like to add that I have used MSN Messenger for sending .wav files of up to 20+MB. Sure it\'s slow, but it can work.

Using email relies on the servers ability to store big files for you. Many of the freebies like Yahoo have a limit like 2-4MB. Even the paid ones like .Mac have small limits.

By going through a Messenger (which are free, at least MSN), it will be slower transfer but the person will have it immediately.

On the Mac you can transfer using iChat or iChatAV.

[fitch]

I\'ve been collaborating with various people, on various projects via e.mail for the last year now..

it\'s great fun..

in my day job i play in a symphony orchestra... see loads of musicians day in day out.. we\'re a regular session group too..

so from my perspective, having a bit of one2one work.. even if it is via e.mail is so satifying, because it\'s a change from my norm.

if any of you guys want to work with or need a cellist in the future.. I\'m over here in dublin.. send me a file images/icons/smile.gif

[Rich Pell]

Hmmm..very cool Fitch(may take u up on that one day.I totally empithize with Bruce(for once:-) graemlins/tounge_images/icons/smile.gif As i too am trapped like a rat in my studio 24-7 composing solo.But..I make sure that i play my weekly jazz gig on Sundays get my ya-yas out playing with my buddys.Nothing beats it.Its great therapy,I highly suggest it. Best, Rich

[Donald_Duck]

I don\'t like people around at all while i\'m working, i think composing is a very intimate act in which you bare your soul, and it is hard to expose it to other people on the spot. I get so focused into what i\'m doing that i get kind of temporarily disconnected from the world, and i can only do this while being alone, it is such a vulnerable state, that a couple of days ago someone tapped me on the shoulder while i was composing, i hadnt noticed the person had entered the room, and i literally almost fell of the chair! I do like to share my stuff with people once it is completed though, and ask them to participate and add/change things, but only once i\'m done and have let my idea grow on my own...
And to tell you the truth, after having worked with some musicians, to me, call me control freak, but i like to have control of everything, and not having to waste my time trying to explain to someone exactly what i want, so if i can do it myself, i will.

[Joanne Babunovic]

Hi Steve,

I would have never guessed Messenger allows those size of files. Thanks for the tip.

Hi fitch,

Seems that for those who need/like to collaborate, you’re already finding ways.

You’re a cellist - may I ask the cello sample (other than your own live one) you like the best? I don’t have many sample libraries, but I think the Advanced Orchestra solo cello is very nice.

Hi Rich,

Seems like you gather with others more for personal sanity as opposed to feeling the need to improve your composing and productions via collaboration. That’s interesting.

Hi Donald Duck,

I know how you feel and I think many would agree. I like your approach and in practice, would probably incorporate collaboration into my projects the way you do – after the piece is done.

[fitch]

hi joanne..

i\'m a \"european\" orchestral cellist ... so when i heard those VSL demos.. it was the first time i\'d been blown out of the water..It\'s the only library i\'ve invested in

and as I can play all the solos i\'ll ever need myself.. it didn\'t bother me that they didn\'t have solo strings yet..

so i\'m a VSL fan.. the sound corresponds to what i know and hear an orchestral sound sounds like..