Compositional capabilities of popular programs

[mike harper]

I decided to post this here since there are many talented composers.
I am still using logic on PC and will more then likely cross grade to a Mac.
However I am reevaluating sequencers again and need some feedback in certain areas.
The features most important to me right now would be:
1. compositional related tools.
2. adequate film scoring tools.
Right now it seems that digital performer offers the best of these.
by compositional tools I mean: he ability to manipulate midi data using tools
like logic ops: IE inversion, retrograde, and very important is the ability to transpose modally to any key.
Here is what I found out so far regarding the popular apps:
compositions tools:
LOGIC offers some basics like retrograde and inversion . For complex modal transpositions however you have to some big time voodoo in the environment (I know there are several environments on some 3rd part sites), but I have yet to get any of them to work so I am building my own) . Also the matrix editor in logic is completely harmonically dumb: ie if your in Db minor and choose a Gb you may get a F# instead! Drives me nuts on a big orchestral work. Even worse when you’re thinking modally with transposed instruments!
SONAR has very good modal transposing with pitch correcting, IE It can go from C Ionian to C Phrygian or even f# Lorain easily on the fly! I think sonar can do basic inversions and retrograde ops but I think this is via cal programming. Not sure so ANY SONAR USERS PLEASE CORRECT IF YOU CAN THX.
CUBASE SX- as far as I know Cubase SX can perform all of these ops as sonar.
But much to my amazement the developers crippled all of the good film scoring features from previous versions!! Scared me away completely.

Film scoring tools:
The film scoring tools in logic are good enough to get by .you can lock events to time code, scrub video, etc(I know this gets better in 6.0) .
According to the online tour digital performer has all of the film scoring tools in logic plus some more.

So this leads me back to DP and logic, which can provide most, if not all of what I need.

However what I need to know is:
1.What film scoring tools are in sonar?
2. Can you do polymeters in Sonar? ( different meters in different instruments)
3. Anyone working on those of those weird esoteric apps on Mac like MRAC or any of the fractural programs?
4. On the PC side as well, anyone working on any alternative interesting apps?

Thanks all for your insights.
Mike Harper

[SteveHanlon]

I am still using Cakewalk 9 and can tell you that I experience problems with video staying in sync (using .avi files). Sometimes the video doesn\'t even play back at the correct speed (i.e. when the video is played in Windows Media Player it plays much faster).

Now, this doesn\'t happen all the time. I\'ve written music to other .avi files without much problem.

When loading .mpg or quicktime, the sync absolutely stunk.

I cannot imagine Sonar made any improvements from Cakewalk 9 regarding video.

Correct me if I\'m wrong Sonar users.

[mike harper]

Regarding modal transposition, I imagine I could be making more use of the transform window <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">-LEE

not sure, i tried that to and it appears to be rocket science as well. be nice to here from some more sonar and DP users so as everyone gets burnt out on that other meaningless tread!

[mike harper]

These days, however, some of my DP friends have been seeking my out to tell me about how unhappy they are with DP <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">i get that general feeling as well from some of
the users.
there are many things about logic that is quite impressive on any level.
strangly enough there is a phenomenon of leap froging and \" my fill in the blank ( OS, sample library , seqeuncer etc) is better then yours!
the marketers/ developers play off this as one likes to get left out. intresting the guy that does the score to ABC\'s alises uses opcodes vision!! with old hardware samplers for mockups!!
its is easy to get distracted these days.

[JohnnyP]

Originally posted by mike harper:
[QUOTE] the marketers/ developers play off this as one likes to get left out. intresting the guy that does the score to ABC\'s alises uses opcodes vision!! with old hardware samplers for mockups!!
its is easy to get distracted these days. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">well. I read in one intereview he uses LOGIC BUT now if you check out keyboard mag advertisments for DP -He claims to use DP. Go figure!
By the way Mike I also use Logic. I used masterttacks pro back in the late 80\'s, then studio vision in the 90\'s. Now I use Logic. I have to admit I really like \'the arrange; window, BUT there are aspects of this software that are dag gone mystifying and I\'m sorry, very confusing. When I stated studio vision or pro tools, they were extremely intuitive. When first starting those apps, it would be a couple of weeks before I had to go into a manual to do anything! Not so with Logic.
I would say Logic is for the composer or programmer who likes to have things user definalble. I confess, I\'m not like that. I like to know that there is a menu and a keyboard shortcut for one operataion; not 50 or you just make it up yoruself. In the manual, sometimes you\'ll find the topic and thus the operation you want performed-AND THERES A MENU THAT MAKES you define what if is! I\'ve been scoring more and more lately and really hate having to go back to a manual or look online for operational things.
I confess, as any artist would, that it takes practice and it gets a little better as I keep using it. But it wasn\'t the \'out of the box up and running expereince\' I have had with other software.
However, I chose Logic on the mac side becuase I seem to find a fair amount of Mac composers on it and I like the possibility of TDM tie in with Pro Tools, and ease of VST instruments which don\'t need special \'wrappers\'. I have Giga on another PC. I don\'t plan to switch and will keep writing with it. I look forwared to the upgrades and the Apple relationships.