For all pianists out there.......

[JonP]

Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:
This has actually been out for some time, it\'s just getting a redesign.

<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">What it already exists. Where, Where?!!!. Dear God let me have it.

I\'ve got an old gutted Steinway baby grand that was about to be refurbished. It has an action to die for and with a bit of tweaking could make the ultimate controller keyboard for piano sample libraries. I\'d just recon it and record it but in the spare room its currently sitting in the acoustic is poor and would just end up sounding honky-tonk!.


Bruce, you\'re a lucky man to have experienced that. I\'d love to have the chance to fiddle around with those old dinasours. VSTIs are great, but they\'re not very romantic.

[midphase]

Well, it\'s over $2k, it doesn\'t have any aftertouch control, or even a mod wheel and pitch wheel and it resides on the back end of the keyboard instead of being inside the actual piano which IMHO would be more attractive (and invisible).

I love the idea but it seems clunky and expensive. I think for $2k there are some great controllers out there that simulate the real feel closely enough for me. But then again it\'s the perfect product for piano feel purists.

If it was around $500 or less I think it would be more widely received.

[JonP]

Well if its hot at reading velocity correctly and does what it says on the tin, so to speak, then I\'m game on buying it. I\'ve longed for something like this for ages. Do you know where it can be purchased from?.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

I think Buchla only does direct sales now.

www.buchla.com (\"http://www.buchla.com\")

But...that device is currently off the market while they do the re-design. You might find a used one somewhere, but I think I\'d wait for the new one if you\'re really wanting it.

Check out the Lightning controller, too, and all the \"historic\" photos. I built my synthesis chops on those old babies...seeing those photos makes me remember everything about it, right down to the way the thing smelled. I used to love those little \"stove burner\" pads that were touch sensitive according to how much \"flesh\" was pressed on them. The little voltage-controlling sequencers were very cool as well. Some of the loops I did for the initial release of ACID were lifted off my old Buchla projects.

I am so old. Sigh. I think I\'ll go curl up in the fetal position and rock awhile.

[thesoundsmith]

I loved the concept of the original, but the redesign has the same problem-I want to play my piano keyboard and hear my Giga Bose. But I\'ll always hear the piano; even if I muffle it, I\'ll hear the clunk of the hammers on the felt muffler...

Dasher

[spectrum]

The Yamaha MIDI Acoustic Grand pianos are the bomb for this application. Their silent system is amazing and the internal sound module for silent practicing is really great sounding.

Highly recommended!

(and much cheaper than a Disclavier too!)

Little hard to find in many Piano store though....they sell mostly the straight acoustic pianos or the disclavier models....but the MIDI Piano is really very wonderful to play. So cool to be able to play silently with headphones on a REAL acoustic piano. (The sample in the module is of their 9 ft Concert range instrument too...pretty good!)

spectrum

PS. Those pianos are really nice for the money too...hard to beat for consistency and tone in that price range.

[ngstime]

is there any internal midi kits out there?

I have an uncle who\'s a piano tech and he\'s always telling me about how dirt cheap he can get junk grand pianos. In the back of my mind, i\'m always thinking how cool it would be to get one and convert it to a midi controller while still using the piano keys, just minus the sound board and the strings.
perhaps a method where the hammer hits a trigger or something.... while still having that grand action.

[JonP]

Maybe I should add: \"who own decent acoutic pianos\"


This news might just get you a bit excited (from SOS site):

Moog to make MIDI from any piano with the Piano Bar

The Piano Bar allows any acoustic piano to send MIDI data, using infra-red sensors to detect the movement of the piano keys. The system, pictured here with Bob Moog (left) and Don Buchla (right), consists of the Scanner Bar, Pedal Sensor and Control Module. The Scanner Bar sits unobtrusively over the piano keys and requires no permanent or destructive installation. Since it doesn’t actually touch the keyboard, the feel of the keys is unaffected. The Pedal Sensor sits underneath the pedals, registering their movement, and both Pedal Sensor and Scanner Bar are connected to the compact Control Module. The Module contains a library of 500 instruments and effects but, naturally, the system can be used to trigger any other MIDI gear.

Though still in development, the Piano Bar is an exciting prospect for the future — rather than searching for the keyboard controller with the most authentic weighted action, the discerning keyboardist will be able to simply turn his or her acoustic piano into a keyboard controller!


Woooooooffffff!!!! images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif

[Bruce A. Richardson]

This has actually been out for some time, it\'s just getting a redesign.

But to be sure, anything Don Buchla does is brilliant. He has made some of the most interesting instruments and controllers the industry has ever known. I did all my college \"electronic composition,\" as it was called on a pair of Buchla 200s cobbled together as a gigantic modular cockpit with two 1/2\" Ampex 4-tracks. To this day, I remember that setup fondly...we had great times and made great music with that system.

[DanS]

My wife will be real impressed when I haul all my gear into the living room, and then she\'ll make me get rid of my S80!!!

[mschiff]

Martin L,

Yes, we have a pianodisc system here at work on a Baldwin 9\' grand. It works nicely for recording and playback.

-- Martin (S)

[MartinL]

Originally posted by spectrum:
The Yamaha MIDI Acoustic Grand pianos are the bomb for this application. Their silent system is amazing and the internal sound module for silent practicing is really great sounding.
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I think PianoDisc has the same kind of system that can apply to any other piano brand on the market right?

I am eventually planning to buy a Boston grand piano and to install the PianoDisc system in it instead of getting a Yamaha... images/icons/cool.gif

[spectrum]

The PianoDisc system is OK, and its great that you can use any piano that you like....but it doesn\'t have the \"Silent\" feature of the Yamahas...I don\'t think.

That\'s what I love about the Yamaha...you can play it as a piano, or as a silent controller. For practicing at any time and also for silent \"student/teacher\" leasons, since there are two phone jacks....its great. I think its really nice to be able to learn on a real piano, but have the advantages of a digital piano (headphones, practice any time, MIDI) all in the same instrument.

Also, the built-in sample of the Yamahas are really excellent, and super convenient. Switching from Acoustic to Silent MIDI modes is easy and both sound really excellent. The PianoDisc has an optional module, but the sounds I heard were horrendous....and would be hard to use, when you are used to good sample libraries. The Yamaha sample is quite playable, even and expressive.

The PianoDisc is more like a way to get a Disklavier thing going on another model of piano. It works, but it also doesn\'t even come close to the resolution of the Pro Disklavier Yamahas....they really are able to catch many subtleties that the PianoDisc system misses.

Of course, if you want a Steinway or Boesendorfer piano, the PianoDisc is the best option.

I was just really impressed with how far the Yamaha line has come, and how far ahead of all the other options that are available.

I drove the poor guy at the Piano store crazy the other day trying all these models in the store all day!

Pianos are just awesome though....its so great to just play an acoustic instrument, when you get in the \"technology rut\".....there\'s no beating a great instrument.

:-)

spectrum

[MartinL]

Interesting thoughts Eric... In fact, for the same price, I think I can get a Boston piano with a PianoDisc system, or a Yamaha with the Midi stuff. In my mind, a Boston grand piano sounds better than a Yamaha. But I\'ll have to check the Piano Disc system to see if it compares to the Yamaha system.

For me it is more important to have a good piano. But I also want a good recording/playback system. And you\'re right, the Silent option can be really useful. Especially at 3am when all the family is asleep and you come up with that great idea about a piano concerto filled with fff clusters... images/icons/wink.gif

[JonP]

I\'ve toyed with the idea of the Yamaha from time to time, but the main reason for using sampled pianos isn\'t for the silence factor. I live in quite a large place and my main piano room is far away enough from any of the bedrooms/sitting rooms to not be heard distinctly when I fancy a late night play.

Also, I\'m not a big fan of the Yamaha sound. Its just too bright for my ears. I prefer the more weighty, rounder German pianos like Bosendorfer.

No, its the recording factor. Recording pianos in a domestic setting (none of my instruments are in or near my home studio) is maybe do-able with a lot of time and effort spent setting it all up, but often for projects I don\'t have that sort of time and would prefer the effort be spent elsewhere. If I really wanted to record a piano it\'d be less aggro to just pop down to one of the studios within easy reach and use their specially rigged models (which I do from time to time).

Good sampled pianos are just really convenient. BUT....I\'ve yet to find a keyboard controller that really feels good enough. The Kawai K9500 has come close, but the thought of playing a \"silenced\" real grand piano is far more tantalizing.

[ngstime]

I grew up loving Rachmaninoff. Having a bosey and a room for it just isn\'t on the horizon. Even if I could, it would go head to head with my other pipe dream.... sports cars

MIDI and sampling has fullfilled so much of my happiness images/icons/smile.gif but yet.... how I long to have the real thing (grand keys) under my finger tips.

I don\'t think converting a junk grand piano into a silent MIDI controller is very far fetched. the pianodisc looks like the best option so far images/icons/rolleyes.gif the web site seems to only focus on playback, which is something i\'m not really interested in(well maybe.... if I could fullfill the first paragraph). I just want to transmit MIDI out for sample playback to handle the rest. Can anyone refer me to some nice bosey samples? images/icons/tongue.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/cool.gif

[Michiel Post]

Found this system; gabor (\"http://www.uk-piano.org/gabor/index.html\")

His site is rather old, don\'t know if he\'s still in business.

[Michiel Post]

...and for a really interesting guy go here! (\"http://www.logosfoundation.org/cv-god.html#ENGLISH\")

Just click on the list of instruments (\"http://www.logosfoundation.org/instrum-god.html\") and just be amazed!

[Garius]

Hi,

I use a Gulbransen MIDI pick-up for my piano. It works well and is firly easy to install. You might do a search and check it out. I don\'t know the cost. I bought mine years ago. I think they are still in business.

good luck,
Garius Hill
Manhattan

[ngstime]

Originally posted by Garius:
Hi,

I use a Gulbransen MIDI pick-up for my piano. It works well and is firly easy to install. You might do a search and check it out. I don\'t know the cost. I bought mine years ago. I think they are still in business.

good luck,
Garius Hill
Manhattan <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">WOW! Thanks! that is what i\'m looking for!
Gulbransen is now MIDI 9.
Hehehe.... now i\'m really geeked out!


Thanks,
Aaron Dirk

[JonP]

Thanks for the info on this. That\'s why I love these forums!. Its so easy to reach a point and think you know a fair amount of what\'s what in your specialist field. But since I\'ve visited these forums over the past few months I\'ve picked up handier tip upon handier tip. images/icons/smile.gif

I\'m going to have a really good look into all these options.