Septuplets?? How do I . . .

[Jaybee]

I'm using Sonar 7 and CoMB and working on the realisation of one of my favorite marches and I've run across this problem. There are a number of woodwind runs which consist of 16th note septuplets. Can someone show me how I can do this using Sonar? :confused: I've searched the online manual but if it's in there I'm missing it. I'm certain that it's possible but my poor, tired brain is stumped at the present. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

[rbowser-]

Oh my, Jerry - You're right that you're not going to find a quantization for Septuplets - and I think that was your concern, not finding it available on the quantization grid?

UPDATE - 11/15/07 - In Jamie "Skysaw"s reply 7 posts down on this same thread, he explains that there is a second Quantization window in Sonar where Tuplet Quantization is available. So I was incorrect---Inserting this update so future thread readers aren't mislead.

My original suggestion below to play the notes and edit them, without using any Quantization, still stands - I feel that would still be the preferred way to do this:

-----------------------------------------
You're using a fine DAW there, Sonar - Here's my recommendation. Record the notes. Sure, they're liable to be lousy, but then with the Grid turned OFF in Staff View, drag them around until they're evenly spaced in the amount of the measure they should occupy. Or use the Piano Roll View. Then use your ears to judge the results.

The best work is often done without any absolute quantization, just judicious editing so the note on events aren't overly sloppy.

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[reberclark]

It may be possible to "fake" a septuplet by breaking each of them into a 4+3 pattern - four 32nd notes followed by a 16th note triplet or vice-versa (3+4) depending on how they lead into the next note.

[reberclark]

Another thought - you can notate the septuplets in Finale and then export it to Sonar.

[reberclark]

Well darn it...one more thing. I agree with Randy that over-quantization kills the music very quickly.

[rbowser-]

---play them, and move them into better positions with the grid off---

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[Jaybee]

Thanks, guys. I found the answer - quite by accident. In the Transport-->Step Record dialog box there is a place where you can input the number of notes you want and the time frame to place them in. (It even tells you the number of ticks for each note of that value!) Then, you just step record the passage and the notes are placed quite correctly. I'll go through the runs and "humanize" them after I get them all in.

I am finding more and more neat tricks in Sonar the more I use it and I've had it for over 2 years now. I could never have done this so easily 13 years ago when I was using eMagic's Logic. We've come a long way since then. And . . . I really am loving CoMB! It is a fantastic sounding library!

Again, thanks. We can close this thread now. )(~)(~)(~

[rbowser-]

aaaaaah, OOOkay, Jay - I didn't want to tell you about step recording. Because --

It'd be better to ---play them, and move them into better positions with the grid off---

You found A way to do it, Another answer, but not The answer. Nothing wrong with that utility except that it's absolutely quantized (s-h-u-d-d-e-r)- I like the part where you said you'd move the notes to humanize them. See, I was trying to get you to do the Human part first. :)

Actually, I don't actually know if you use a keyboard or not, so maybe my answer wasn't possible.

At least you got it going now. Cool!

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[Skysaw]

In Sonar you can do any type of tuplet you want using the Cakewalk MIDI FX:

Process/MIDI Fx/Cakewalk FX/Quantize...

In the Quantize window that comes up, check the "Tuplet:" box, and put in:
7:4

Much easier than messing with the step recorder, I think. You can also add in some of the random function/swing/strength in this same window.

[reberclark]

Jamie,

I have never seen or used that function! What a great thing. Thanks for the enlightenment.

[rbowser-]

Ditto what Reberclark said!

Very cool, Jamie - I have never seen that function. In fact I've never seen that second version of Quantization, under MIDI FX as you explained. I've only seen the Quantization which is listed as a separate choice directly under MIDI FX on the Process tab. That one doesn't have this cool Tuplet box.

Thanks for the info! -- I'll edit my earlier reply to point out this info.

Jay, you said we can close the thread now, but I hope you come back to see Jamie "Skysaw"s reply, because he's right - that Tuplet quantization tool will be much easier than the step-recorder you found.

Meanwhile - ---play them, and move them into better positions with the grid off---

LOL!--Couldn't resist. That's still the way I handle any special Tuplet situations. :D

Randy B.
(rbowser)

[nikolas]

I think it'll sound rather mechanical though. I would honestly suggest inputing the notes with the step recorder and then moving them slightly, starting from a bit slower (a bit more gap between notes) to faster (closer together)... At least this is what I always do with "runs".

Depends on the mixing of course as well. It might not be noticeable. :)

[Jaybee]

Thanks again for all the excellent suggestions. At the final tempo of the piece you probably won't be able to tell wheter the septuplets are quantized or not. And, Randy, there are a rather large number of these septuplets so it really is a lot easier to use either the step-record or the Midi FX Quantization.
We all learn something new every day, don't we. This forum is a great learning place.
The real key to making the septuplets sound right is going to be in the final mix and that's really going to take a long time to tweak properly. But, hey, I'm retired so I've got plenty of time . . . NOT! My life keeps getting in the way but when I get it finished you guys can give me some more feedback then. :)

[Haydn]

Jamie,

That's an excellent tip! Another one who has never used that function. Some of the other items are pretty neat under the Process/MIDI Fx/Cakewalk FX. I use the Velocity tool all the time.

Jim

[Babe]

Here's a very easy way. Go to event view and adjust the lenghts accordinally. If you are using, for instance 120 click per beat, use 17 clicks for each note. You might want to make one of the notes 18 clicks to fill up the whole beat. If you don't want each note to be exactly the same lenght, you can change the lenghts as needed.