Playing a library in mono

[Mark_Knecht]

Hello,
No responses when I posted this in another section

I would like to play a library back in mono instead of stereo. I cannot find an obvious way to do this in GigaStudio 96. Is there anyway to do this without somehow modifying the library?

Thanks,
Mark

[Chadwick]

Mark,
This is something I\'ve suggested for V3. Personally, I think it would be great if all libraries provided mono options for all sounds so that you could get max polyphony when sketching, and then just replace the sketch sounds when you\'re ready to mix.

At the moment you\'d have to edit the samples in order to achieve a mono option on a stereo instrument - and that\'s a lot of work.

It\'d be nice if Giga let you specify whether it used left, right or stereo when you pull up a sound. I know some would prefer a collapsed stereo signal to having to choose left or right, but I think that\'s defeating the idea of a simple non processor intensive alternative.

[Mark_Knecht]

Chadwick,
Thanks for the response. I completely agree, for a number of reasons.

First, in the basically pop music I\'m doing, by the time I get things mixed, a stereo piano or stereo trumpet is sort of meaningless to the mix. The spatial aspect of the instrument is not really improved by the sample being stereo at all.

Second, in Pro Tools LE, where I have a limited number of audio tracks, a stereo sample uses twice as much of that programs resources as I want to use.

Third, and last for me, I transfer everything from GigaStudio to PTLE over ADAT. I\'m only able to transfer four instruments across that interface vs. the eight I\'d rather transfer in mono.

I\'m getting around 1 & 2 by bringing them in to PTLE as stereo but then mixing them down to mono, but what a waste of resourse! The 3rd issue I can do nothing about unless GSt will transfer in mono.

Do you think there might be a mixer trick that could be played, like panning the piano left and the trumpet right, and then sending them both back on the same ADAT pair? (1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8) I just thought of that sitting here writing you. I\'ll try that later today.

Thanks for your help.

Mark


Originally posted by Chadwick:
Mark,
This is something I\'ve suggested for V3. Personally, I think it would be great if all libraries provided mono options for all sounds so that you could get max polyphony when sketching, and then just replace the sketch sounds when you\'re ready to mix.

At the moment you\'d have to edit the samples in order to achieve a mono option on a stereo instrument - and that\'s a lot of work.

It\'d be nice if Giga let you specify whether it used left, right or stereo when you pull up a sound. I know some would prefer a collapsed stereo signal to having to choose left or right, but I think that\'s defeating the idea of a simple non processor intensive alternative.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">

[Mark_Knecht]

Chadwick,
It actually hadn\'t dawned on me that this is also costing me twice the voices in GSt. You are very correct about that also.

However, I really can\'t imagine the library developers going overboard about givign me strictly mono libraries to get around this. That\'s not my issue. I\'m OK, I suppose, with using two voices to make a single mono sound, if I need to. However, I think the library developers (piano anyway) are sort of missing the point about imaging the piano in a larger sound space. When I listen to my Pianos in GSt, I hear the bass registers on the left and treble on the right. However, if a piano is on stage, the audience hear nothing like this. They hear a piano stage left. This is what I need to do when mixing a real song, so I end up panning the current libraries to a single pint anyway.

Anyway, thanks for the responses.

Mark

[Chadwick]

hehe, I never considered the hard pan thing because I\'m mainly interested in saving polyphony, and even hard panning still leaves you with two voices \'played\'.

Glad it solved your problem.

[Mark_Knecht]

Yes, it does work for me, but still, I\'d like to do it with half the voices also.

Thanks for the idea.


Originally posted by Chadwick:
hehe, I never considered the hard pan thing because I\'m mainly interested in saving polyphony, and even hard panning still leaves you with two voices \'played\'.

Glad it solved your problem.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">

[KingIdiot]

Actually what is better is to Collapse the stereo feild within the DSP mixer, not jsut hard pan images/icons/wink.gif

anyhow. I know Awave will spit out Mono versions of instruments for ya. Not sure if it will collapse the stereo feild, have to check it out.

I\'m sure Chicken Sys Translator can do something similar. I need to pick that one up. images/icons/smile.gif

[Mark_Knecht]

Chadwick,
This actually works quite nicely. In GSt I panned my piano on MIDI channel 1 hard left, and a synth on MIDI channel 2 hard right. I can then send them to mono channels in Pro Tools over a single s/pdif interface with no bleeding.

Very cool! Now I can get 10 individual instruments back into Pro Tools over a s/pdif and ADAT interface and apply individual plugins to each of them. Just like recording 10 separate instruments.

Cheers,
Mark


Originally posted by Mark_Knecht:
Do you think there might be a mixer trick that could be played, like panning the piano left and the trumpet right, and then sending them both back on the same ADAT pair? (1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8) I just thought of that sitting here writing you. I\'ll try that later today.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">

[Chadwick]

I\'m sure that most audio editors will let you either split a stereo signal, or \'mix\' it down to mono, but I think we\'re looking for something which doesn\'t involve having to do bulk editing. That\'s why I think it\'d be nice to have a simple switch in the giga main panel - maybe near the pan slider. But it\'s probably not as simple as telling giga to only lift one side of a sample from disk.

[KingIdiot]

Oh believe me I want a Mono switch as well.

Been wanting that since my first foray into layered samples images/icons/smile.gif

Still for right now, Awave and I believe CS translator will do the edits in Batch. In a sense converting your library into a \"mono\" version

This is the only option I know of other than doing it yourself images/icons/wink.gif

In fact I believe options like Awave and Translator are important tools for all of us. Obviously the guys at Nemesys/Tascam wont be able to do all we ask, some options are just more important tho this one should be IMPORTANT!! images/icons/wink.gif ), and the developers wont find it very cost effective to release mono/dual mono version of all their libraries...especially in the +10 disc/multiple DVD realms.

Letting other apps do the work for ya is an awesome option. Not to mention these things can do some other awesome things that can also be batched. This stuff can expand libraries beyond what the original developers had in mind, and might even encourage developers to work with these guys to enhance their libraries in the future.

The more I play with Awave the more I start to think that Markus at FMJ soft and Garth at Chicken Systems are \"heros in wait\" for the sampling realm. I see so many things that can come from these guys in the realm of enhancing libraries that they can impliment blindfolded. I\'ve a few suggestions I will be sending to both of them in the near furure that I hope will go over well.

All this from just a few weeks of toying with Awave images/icons/smile.gif And the little I\'ve spoken with Garth at Chicken Systems. IMO if Tascam and nemesys cant do it all, lets try and ask these guys images/icons/smile.gif

[Mark_Knecht]

KingIdiot,
I know nothing of Awave. I\'ll have to look into that. I have a copy of Chicken and will look and see what it provides.

However, I simply didn\'t want to go the path of creating essentially a new library. I mean, I\'ve been at GigaSampler now for less than 5 months and already have a small arsenal of probably 100 gig files. I don\'t have the disk space or time to mess with creating my own versions of these things. I mean, I don\'t even use articulation files! I\'m really low end when it gets down to this tool! images/icons/wink.gif

The hard pan thing will be a very nice solution for me, until I feel like I\'m out of voices.

To me though, I agree with Chadwick on a simple button on the mixer, right by the pan, that just puts the mixer channel into mono. that\'s what I was originally looking for. With that, and a sound card assignment to a single ADAT channel, I would be fine.

Thanks,
Mark

[tomhartman]

Originally posted by Mark_Knecht:
Chadwick,
Thanks for the response. I completely agree, for a number of reasons.

First, in the basically pop music I\'m doing, by the time I get things mixed, a stereo piano or stereo trumpet is sort of meaningless to the mix. The spatial aspect of the instrument is not really improved by the sample being stereo at all.
.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">[/QB][/QUOTE]

Hmm. I think if you do a mix with all mono samples verses one with stereo samples you\'ll hear a huge difference. I do. I realize that some of our favorite rock records didn\'t have stereo pianos (Beatles, for instance) but with todays stuff everything is in stereo. I even use stereo kicks;)

It is a pain when you have to deal with all the tracks. And with my setup, I\'m taking GIGA into Pro Tools via SPDIF, so I have to record one stereo pair at a time. Takes ages to record anything. But if I ever get the cash to do an ADAT bridge, things should improve.... images/icons/wink.gif

[Mark_Knecht]

Tom,
Well, for piano I may stay in stereo, but for trumpets, bass, and say, individual drums like cymbals and what not, no way. Don\'t need stereo there.

Beyond that, I do agree that having stereo to start with on piano is nice, but the sound field isn\'t right anyway. All of the pianos I have are imaged in GSt to sound like you\'re sitting at the piano keyboard. I think that you never leave them in your mixes exactly like that, do you? I\'m sure you collapse the field down to a more specific place in the image. I think that when I do that, there is very, very little difference between sending over a stereo piano, or a mono piano.

I\'m in PTLE, and I purchased an RME Hammerfall 9636 last week. I should be doing ADAT with GSt by the weekend. (I hope!) That will get me 10 channels back to PTLE, which will be a great improvement.

Thanks,
Mark


Originally posted by tomhartman:
[QUOTE]Hmm. I think if you do a mix with all mono samples verses one with stereo samples you\'ll hear a huge difference. I do.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">