Should I go PC or MAC?

[caveman]

I would like to purchase a Computer that will be stable and that I will not have any hassles with stability. I currently have Sonar and Gigastudio aon the sampe PC ant it works, but most of the time I get quibbles and lock ups etc.

I wish to buy a system that no matter how old it gets it would still be usable with the existing software and stable!

What are your experiences with Macintosh? I have firends that use it for sequencing and Giga on seperate PC, and they just love the Mac!

Or should I get a fast AMD that can hold a sequencer and Giga on one PC. Which is the way to go?

I also wish to use plug ins like Halion/Kontakt.
I am just tired of configuring and pampering my current system. I wish to spend my time on one Sequencer Software an learn to master it.

What would you say MAC or PC for Stability/Performance and many plug ins and tracks

Please shed some light it is dark in here

[midphase]

If you don\'t mind running Giga on a separate PC, I would definately reccomend the Mac for your sequencing environment.

It\'s a great and stable system and if you want to run Digital Performer (which is excellent) it\'s your only choice.

I also reccomend Cubase VST!

Ask around, the more feedback you get the better (although on the Gigasampler boards I would expect an overwhelming PC user base)

[caveman]

Thanks Midphase

Is there anyone else who could give some feedback on PC or MAC, and would Digital Performer be a good investment?

[Mel Tron]

I agree with Midiphase D. Performer is THE way to go. A lot of people are lured in by the Bells & Whistles of Logic and Cubase but if you want the most MUSICAL Sequencer Performer is it. I am surprised by people who snub it because they can\'t read a manual and learn to set up Loop Points, SMPTE sync whatever, people are lazy. Performer has the BEst Time Based Management of Tempo as well.It is also more Logical than Logic. The Conductor track is where it all comes together. Read the interview with Robert Kraal in the GOS Forum. I think he knows what he\'s doing. If you\'re scoring Film or TV there is only 1 choice.

Here\'s another tip. Run Performer on a used Mac Cube. That way your Studio is going to be very Quiet (NO FANS) and you can hear yourself think.

I have my CUBE hooked up to 3 GigaStudios through 3 MTP AV\'s. Also get a used Cinema Screen for Notation. Don\'t expect to run Halion very well on a Mac. With 1 or 2 GigaStudios with 1 GIG Ram, you won\'t need it.You can probably run a Soft Synth like B3 or whatever along with Performer ok.

Also check out unicornation.com for DP tips.

[Bardstown Audio]

You cannot go wrong with either Logic Platinum 5 or DP3 on a Macintosh. With Logic 5 you get POWr dithering, which is considered to be the best dithering algorithm available, especially for acoustic instruments.

If you do not currently own a Mac, I am inclined to think that prices may be coming down on the dual gig G4\'s when Macintosh introduces their next newest latest and greatest computer. The dual gig Mac G4 is an exceptional computer for audio applications with plenty of host based power for effects processing.

Kip
Bardstown Audio

www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[caveman]

Hey Thanks Guys

I am currently looking at Macs. Just wanted to know. I saw a cube 450 mhz with 1.5gb ram for $1200. First how much Mhz would i need for running plug ins and recording 20+ tracks. Can this be done with a 450 mhz? or Kip do you know of any new Macs coming out so the G4 will drop as you said. Do you know if this new Macs will be coming out soon?

Thanks

Caveman

[Parker]

I switched to Mac a few years back and have no regrets at all. DP3 is awesome. A new version 3.1 is expected soon which has some great new features like firewire video support, timeline undo, branching undo, multiple edge edits, and REX file import. A great time to get into DP3. Literacy is required however.

As for a mac with DP3, I would recommend a dual processor mac as DP will use both for plugins(softsynths) and the track count. A used or refubished dual 800 would cost you less than 2k right now. A single g4 450 will give you 50plus tracks but you wont be getting much synth polyphony from that machine. I would atleast get a dual 500. Retire (or promote) your PC to gigarig status and you will soon learn what stability is all about images/icons/smile.gif

goodluck,
Parker

[dnortana]

Another advantage to using Digital Performer on a Mac, with your Giga stuff split out to satellite PC\'s, is the ability to run AltiVerb.

This is the most natural, clean and realistic software reverb for orchestral emulation. I even know of a case where a producer selected the AltiVerb produced sound-track, over the same score produced using a Lexicon 960, for his movie. AltiVerb costs less than $500 - but you\'ve got the sound of a reverb costing many thousands ; ) Only drawback, it is processor intensive, you\'ll need a G4 500 minimum.

Regards,
Trond

[midphase]

Yeah, I second Parker,

Try to get a Dual G4 if you can afford it. Otherwise check out some of the availability of disinued G4 towers (such as 667mhz, 733mhz, etc).

The Cube idea is pretty cool, but they are not very expandeable both in memory and hard drives.

You might also consider the new 700mhz eMac for $1000 which has a built-in 17in monitor!

[SteveHanlon]

be careful with the Mac never crashes syndrome. My bro, who is a die hard Mac user even ha to admit that freezes do happen. Lock-ups do happen.

I, too, am fed up with the PC freezes. But in the end I think nothing is perfect.

But it still frustrates the hell out of me!!!!!!!
Especially Cakewalk Pro Audio causing endless page faults...freeze!!!

[thesoundsmith]

As a cautionary voice, let me offer this:

I currently use (and like a lot) a Mac for Digital Performer, and a PC for Giga. My PC is an old (333MHz) PII, that only allows 64 voices on Giga, and even then can choke. My Mac is a B&W G3 with a G4/450MHz card. In my \'day gig\' I\'m a computer programmer/analyst, but my focus is on writing code, not keeping up with PC congiuratrion issues.

Generally, both my boxes both work fine. BUT if I were to do it over, I would make some changes.

My (highly biased) recommendation:

GigaStudio-
Buy a PC for Giga. Run NOTHING on it but GS. No screen savers, etc. No Internet/modem type software. Install a Virus checker but keep it disabled except when installing new software and samples, to prevent it from polling your machine and interfering with the processing.. No word processing, ESPECIALLY no Microslush \"we know better than you how your PC should be set up\" programs for connecting to email and the Internet, or other \"office\" tasks. Let the internal C: drive hold the OS and Gigstudio. Get a second, fast hard disk (7200RPM minimum, 10K better, 15K best at present) with the adapter that supports it. The goal is to have one drive dedicated to JUST samples streaming off the disk as fast as possible. The most RAM the OS will handle, and as fast a MOBO as you can afford.

Sequencer-
If you like DP, buy a Mac for DP. Run NOTHING on it but DP. Again, no screen savers, no internet/games/graphics/etc. Same as above-one drive for OS and program, one for recording audio.

If you prefer to learn just ONE style of OS (I\'ve been doing this for years and I STILL occasionally try to use the right button on the Mac!) get PC and your major sequencer of choice. I won;t recommed one, as I use DP, but check the user groups for stability issues. Other parameters as above.

Once you have your sequencing computer, with separate audio file hard drive, verify it is stable and consistent. Do the same with the Giga box. Then BACKUP THE ENTIRE BOOT DRIVE on each machine. Wosrt case solution, you can recopy the entire OS data onto the boot drive if one dies. (There\'s more to that issue, but this is the \'short\' post...)

For EVERYTHING ELSE, including burning CDs, mastering, games, email, word processing, etc.
Buy a THIRD computer. Mid-range machine will do fine ($700 from Dell or Gateway will get you a lot of machine today for \'routine\' stuff.

For swapping data, get a USB ZIP drive. If you\'re brave, consider Ethernet, but this violates the NOTHING BUT AUDIO SOFTWARE rule above. (Generally it is safe, but it IS one more variable when there\'s a problem.)

That\'s the \'belt-and-suspenders\' approach (for heavy-duty b&s, make the audio drives RAID, and hot-swappable, and buy a complete identical backup system. THat\'s as secure as it\'s possible to be.)

You\'ll still have glitches. Guaranteed. But MANY less than with any other way I know of.

Good luck.

Dasher

[Garius]

Caveman,

I like the responses you recieved regarding computer advice in this thread. i.e. Mac versus PC. But just for a another viewpoint I thought I would respond.

I think Digital Performer is grand. However, I encourage you to seek out a DEMO seminar run by Cakewalk on the new Sonar 2.0 software. I was recently faced with your same scenario. Ultimately, I have chosen to run Giga and Sonar on the same computer (p4 are suggested by the Cakewalk head geeks). There are people out there that are very happy with this set-up. And when you think of the power of Giga and Sonar on one machine that rivals anything out there, including DP (sorry Mac diehards, I used to be one of you).

I would say, no matter what, if you have Sonar and Giga or DP and Giga, you\'re going to be just fine. Mac and DP isn\'t the only show in town anymore.

Good luck with your work!

best regards,
Garius Hill

[caveman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by midphase:

Try to get a Dual G4 if you can afford it. Otherwise check out some of the availability of disinued G4 towers (such as 667mhz, 733mhz, etc).

You might also consider the new 700mhz eMac for $1000 which has a built-in 17in monitor![/QB

Hey guys thanks. Midphase I would like to know what is an Emac, is that the Imac or is that an older Mac. Never used Mac so where could I look at this EMAC. Where would you guide me to look at purchasing a refurbished or new Mac? Who has the best Deals? Thanks Its lighter in here now!

Caveman

[donimon]

I agree Mac for sequencer tied to dedicated Giga PC is the only way to go. I used to use Cakewalk (Sonar) and it was great, biggest problem is that 95% of the people in the biz (atleast in LA) use MAC with either Performer or Logic - so it\'s just easier to use a program that most others use (not that Sonar isn\'t great and can do the same stuff). Another big plus of MAC is that both Performer and Logic can export to OMF - meaning you can transfer your sessions to Protools - which is where most will end up if you\'re doing any TV or Film stuff. I just got Logic 5 and the Logic control and it\'s absolutely great - there\'s no way you could get me to swith now. Hope that helps..

JC

[composer22]

as much as I like performer...

What about Finale?

[MikeGraybill]

Well, I\'m a die hard pc guy, but that aside, here\'s something else to consider. I agree that the only way to go and be stable is to separate seq and giga software on different machines. I tried Cakewalk 9, Sonar, Cubase, and even a few barely-knowns on the same machine as Giga, and had so many problems I can\'t recall them all with freezing, poor performance overall, and blue-screens. All of that went away when I switched to multiple pc\'s.

But here\'s two really cool reasons to stay pc:

1) Whenever you upgrade your primary system in the future, you are effectivley getting a new Giga station too. Just retire the old main system (which will prolly be a pretty decent machine to begin with, as it will be responsible for the effects and multitrack mixing, etc) and make it another giga pc. If you are using a mac, you cannot do this.

2) If you are using XP, there is no need to buy an expensive 1x8 or whatever KVM switch or worse, buy a separate monitor for every giga machine AND your main system. Over a network, you can take control of any of the giga stations, do what you need to, then come back to your main. I still recomend some kind of extra monitor for emergencies, but this way you can get one really nice monitor (real estate in multitracking and sequencing has made my life SO much easier) like a 21\" or 22\".

While I have no doubt that DP is one heck of a program (I have never used it, but have heard really, really good things about it) I don\'t believe that it out-weighs the pro\'s to only dealing with one kind of OS. Its hard enough to learn an OS well enough to tweak it to get the best performance out of a system, as well as all the work it takes to learn the software itself. You already have to us Windows for Giga. Why make it harder? Anyway, just a pc lover\'s 2cents, for what its worth, images/icons/grin.gif .

[caveman]

Thanks for all the advice, all of you.

This thread is definately taking my thoughts on purchasing into a different direction.

I would like to describe what I currently, have and what I intend to do.

First off I have a P3 45oMhz for Giga. Giga 96 is running on it. I wish to dedicate a seperate machine, but need that stability. The reason why I am looking at Mac is Digital Performer used at my institution, so I can just come home and still do my work.

But I have the following and am afraid it might only be on PC format. I have an Aardvark Pro 24/96 soundcard, and yes although Mac drivers are not available, I know they will be out by the end of next month. ( I have faith as I just spoke to Aardvark)

I also have an SCSI cd Burner from Microboards its called the Yamaha Playwrite and works with the Advansys Scsi Driver.

My questions:

Question 1:
Would it work if I used my PC for burning my final product I created on the Mac if the CD burner does not support Mac?
Or does one use Digital performer for Burning the CD as well like Samplitude does?

Question 2:
If I want to use my Studiologic Sl 1100 Midi Controller, my Roland XP 30 and route it all to a Mac. How would Giga be routed and would I be restricted only using 1 Port of Midi? (The benefit of Cakewalk and Giga on same PC is that I can have my Aardvark and Gigastudio Midi Ports show up directly in my track properties in Cakewalk, therefore having 2 virtual port.

Question3:
I know I would have to get another soundcard if I bought A Mac. (the Aardvark I would use for Mac and another soundcard for the Giga PC) Which soundcard? (Aardvark has SPDIFand 4 mic inputs but Roland XP uses 2 of them already)

Last Question:
I do not have an external Mixer. My Aardvark takes care of that. Could I get away with not using an external Mixer for Digital Performer?

Phew! those are very important questions to me and once again I do appreciate your advice to help me in the right direction

Caveman

[donnie]

Here\'s my setup....this works REALLY well for me.

G4 dual 1 ghz, 1 gig of ram, controlling everything. In the Mac I have a digi 9652 with an ADI 8DS as the front end. For midi communication I have a unitor 8.

3 giga PC\'s....PIII 933/512 ram, PIII 550/512 ram, Athlon 1.2/768 ram. I have delta 1010\'s on each pc.

I use a Tascam DM 24 digital mixer and route the signal of all the PC\'s into the inputs of the DM24 then I run lightpipe out of the DM 24 into the Mac and mix everything there.

I use Logic and can do just about anything with this setup including fader automation.

Works for me...

Donnie

[astrt4]

----------------------------------
as much as I like performer...

What about Finale?
----------------------------------

Most notation programs are a bit better on PC than Macintosh, both in terms of features and speed. That being said, Finale for Macintosh works fine, but it is not as nice as the PC version.

[midphase]

[QUOTE] <<Hey guys thanks. Midphase I would like to know what is an Emac, is that the Imac or is that an older Mac. Never used Mac so where could I look at this EMAC. Where would you guide me to look at purchasing a refurbished or new Mac? Who has the best Deals? Thanks Its lighter in here now!>>

For the new eMac go to www.apple.com (\"http://www.apple.com\")

For several links to re-sellers of older Macs go to www.maccentral.com (\"http://www.maccentral.com\")

[Munsie]

You\'re already close to an excellent setup. Keep the sequencer on your current machine (Sonar) purchase a new fast machine with Windows 98(2nd edition) installed or go XP if you want, and put Giga on that pc. Treat Giga as an external sound module. This way you\'re sticking with what you already know, nothing new to learn, just getting back to making music. Like another user said though, make sure NOTHING is running except GS on the pc.

[donnie]

Originally posted by midphase:
[QUOTE] <<Hey guys thanks. Midphase I would like to know what is an Emac, is that the Imac or is that an older Mac. Never used Mac so where could I look at this EMAC. Where would you guide me to look at purchasing a refurbished or new Mac? Who has the best Deals? Thanks Its lighter in here now!>>

For the new eMac go to www.apple.com (\"http://www.apple.com\")

For several links to re-sellers of older Macs go to www.maccentral.com (\"http://www.maccentral.com\")<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Uh....what are you going to use for PCI slots???

Donnie

[composer22]

Originally posted by donnie:
Uh....what are you going to use for PCI slots???

Donnie<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Heh...

[SteveHanlon]

Caveman,

I have to agree with the keep your current computer for sequencer and just get a new dedicated Giga machine.

I\'m sure you can find something at Soundchaser just dedicated to Giga. You\'ll spend $1500-$2000 and you won\'t have to learn a new sequencer.

This way you\'ll also just be able to get back to making music which is what we\'re all doing this fo anyway.

I almost did the Mac jump but decided That it just a lot of fuss to put together something completely new.

[caveman]

Thanks everyone.

Marty although it sounds like a solution, which is possible, I ma still leaning towards MAc and Digital Performer, because that is what we will be using at University. I found out that my Monitor and CD burner is supported under MAC, and I am confident about Aardvark having the drivers available by the end of next month. Just have to keep on it. If anyone can answer at least Question
3 or my last question I would appreciate it!

Caveman

[midphase]

QUOTE \" posted 05-02-2002 02:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------
Uh....what are you going to use for PCI slots???\"

Hello Donnie,

Well....for audio production nowadays you don\'t need PCI slots. Plenty of companies are producing excellent Firewire and USB based audio interfaces. I would personally reccomend the MOTU 828.

[Hardy Heern]

No one buys Macs anymore (unfortunately?)

PC\'s offer a hell of a lot more bang per buck (especially the AMD variants). The Digitalmedia site showed how a, much cheaper, AMD twin CPU hammered a MAC equivalent in practical tests.

In the old days, the Macs and, for that matter, the Ataris and Amigas were streets ahead of the Intel rubbish (of the day) but hey times have changed and Macs just don\'t hack it on any account. I mean, even Steinberg bring out their software for the PC\'s first these days....that didn\'t used to be the case!

Seriously though, if Arty Farty styling and image is your bag then stick with Macs. If you just want practical, economic power then PC\'s are the answer!

PC\'s will do the job and leave you with money for samples.!! (or Gigastudio!!!)

[caveman]

[caveman]

Originally posted by caveman:
Thanks Everyone.

I do not mean to start a MAc pr PC war, but I need to make the right decision here. I am using Mac at school and have a PC at Home. I think the Macs are more Stable than Windows OS, and yes you can make Windows stable but through a painfull optimization, for you who are running PC without optimizing wonderfull, but I have read reviews, where MAC tests against AMD and MAc comes out the best Performance.(Not necessarily speed but total performance, how it handles the software in Gigaflops) I also think that when a PC gets outdated it is Outdated, but Mac somehow, even old, can still handle the demanding new software, whereas with PC I have to keep on building my system all the time or buying a new PC everytime. So I have made my final decision in yes Blowing my money on a MAC with Digital Performer, because I do think that there is an advantage of Mac Platform, not making drastic changes in operating Systems, Programs etc therefore more consistent in the end. I do not care if Steinberg and other companies make more plug ins and others, because going to Motu Website their is a hughe list of Mac software to die for. So I do not think I would get jealous because there are more programs for PC than Mac, because I would not use them all anyway. I am cutting myself down to make a big decision, being more selective with what I chose, and then sticking with it, and mastering it, rather than remaing decisions on what software to get and never getting the work done.

Thanks for all your help and I am open to both PC and MAC as I will use Gigastudio and my new MAC.

Its lighter in here now!

Caveman

Anyway, thats my point of view. I am ready for a change!<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">

[caveman]

Thanks for that info.

I still will only commit to purchase by end summer, but truly have been very satisfied with this bulletin, for all the advice, and knowledge gained. This is a great experience and postitive feedback!

Caveman