help setting up solo violin

[Jeff4h]

I just received the solo violin I bought in the round robin sale. Do I have everything I need on the disc or do I have to go on the internet to the NI service center to download anything. My computer is more than the minumum requirments for the program. I am running Ivory with the same computer and controler great. When I load it up there are only two programs, the two versions,1.08 and 2.01 I think. THere are no other instruments. WHen I open my hard drive and go to solo violin and click it opens up a folder called instruments but it is empty. What loads is practically unusable. It has a very quick attack and a very quick decay that goes down to almost nothing. I have a voume controller by roland and it seems to be working fine. It does the same thing if I use the mouse to trigger a note. I tried the keyswictches and they dont seem to be working right either. I hear nothing that sounds like a trill or tremelo but do get spizzacato. any idea what my problem is

[dermod]

I recommend reading the manual carefully first, then if necessary check old threads in the Strad section of the forum. The strad is an instrument that has to be literally played to deliver results, which is why it is potentially so expressive. The expression controller will give the note body, the mod wheel and aftertouch will, in different ways, control vibrato, the velocity controller will determine strength of attack, the degree of overlap between notes (with mouse or keyboard) will decide the portamento effect. Concerning keyswitches, they all work, but beware,it is a peculiarity of the program that if you hit a key outside the instrument range, but not a designated keyswitch, it mutes the strad. No idea why.

[LouisD]

What loads is practically unusable. It has a very quick attack and a very quick decay that goes down to almost nothing.

It's quite a shock to hear one's first note on the strad out of the box:D
But like Jeff says, you simply have to go through ALL the tutorials in the handbook. You will soon discover the beauty of this gorgeous instrument....

Yes, there are only two patches, the older more classical sounding strad and the newer more lyrical sounding instrument. I would start with the second one, if I were you, it has a stunning tone.

Good luck !

[rbowser-]

Hi, Jeff - Congratulations on being a new Strad owner!

You've gotten excellent replies from Dermod and Louis - I just want to make sure that the #1 priority piece of information you needed wasn't lost:

--Expression - cc#11 is what controls The Strad's volume. You described hearing the instantly cutting off sound one gets when no Expression has been applied.

You can control the instrument's volume live, with an Expression pedal which sends out MIDI controller #11, or you can program a wheel or knob you have handy to cc11, or you can draw it into a MIDI controller window after you've played the notes.

When you bought The Strad, you understood it's a solo instrument - a single Violin, right? You're actually getting a bonus - it's not a matter of "just two instruments"---it's--"hey wow--there are Two Violins here, each with a bit diferent timbre."

Hope it all goes well for you.

Randy B.

[Jeff4h]

thanks everyone for the help. After listening to the demos I am so excited to get this instrument. I have read the book front to back. From reading this and watching the demos It doenst sound like it should be hard. I play pedal steel and Im great with a expression pedal. I have a studio logic controller I think it is a 880. I couldnt find anywhere in the manual how to set the controler for the volume pedal. THe volume pedal seems is working. I called and talked to Randy but after going back and reloading it seems to be a different set of problems. Wherther I use my keyboard or play a note with the mouse I get a real sharp attack and two notes play, it kind of sounds like up and a down stoke Im not sure. The other thing my keyswitches dont work. They dont work on the keyboard and they dont work with the mouse. The only switch I get is if I hit a# 2, not one it swiches to pizzacato I think and then if I hit c2 it switches back. THis has nothing to do with the controller. Is it possable to get a bad disc. My controller is working great with Ivory, east west gold, Triolgy and several other things. I am not using a exprestion pedal with any of those but the fact the the keyswitches dont work even with the mouse leads me to belive there is another problem. I have another program that uses Kontakt 2 player, acoustic legends and when I open up the strad it shows up to. Could that possable be causing any kind of a conflict. I just dont think the problem is in my controller. IF my exression pedal wasnt assigned to cc11 would it even work. Im so excited yet so dissapointed. I have a session I wanted to use it on this week. I have the ability to play the things on any of the demos I heard. Im sorry to be a pain and thanks everyone

[rbowser-]

...I called and talked to Randy but after going back and reloading it seems to be a different set of problems.
---Which Randy? Not me---


...
Wherther I use my keyboard or play a note with the mouse I get a real sharp attack and two notes play, it kind of sounds like up and a down stoke Im not sure--etc.
The keyswitches which control the articulations begin an octave lower than the bottom note The Strad plays. You're confused on what keyswitch is currently engaged---And you understand, the instrument will stay on the currently selected keyswitch until you re-assign a new one. Low C is the basic starting point for most of your work.


...
IF my exression pedal wasnt assigned to cc11 would it even work. Im so excited yet so dissapointed. I have a session I wanted to use it on this week. I have the ability to play the things on any of the demos I heard. Im sorry to be a pain and thanks everyone
If it's an Expression pedal plugged into the Exression socket in your keyboard, then it's sending out cc#11, and will control the volume of your Strad.

I'm not really clear on what all your problems are, but I really think being confused about where the keyswitches are is the main one.

Randy B.

[Jeff4h]

I am not confused to where the keyswitches are, the first one is c1, it stays there untill you hit another one, I understand that. THe only key switch I get is a#2 anything about that mutes the sound untill i hit c1 again. In c1 it is unusable. I hit one note and it triggers two. My problem is not that I dont understand how to use it something is wrong for one the KEYSWITCHES DO NOT WORK 2 IT TRIGGERS TWO NOTES WHEN i HIT ONE YOU COULD CLEARLY HEAR THIS OVER THE PHONE I have no idea what to try next

[rbowser-]

Hi, Jeff - I can hear your frustration, and sympathize with you. It can be stressful when software isn't working for us, and I imagine everyone here has had that kind of experience one time or another, so we can all relate.

There's some confusion going here on though, on several counts.

You have never spoken with me on the phone.

You've referred again in your new reply to being on the phone with me - I guess you mean you've spoken a tech support person somewhere named Randy? But I assure you, it wasn't me you spoke to.

Earlier in this thread we explained how Expression, MIDI controller #11 is what controls The Strad's volume. Without any use of cc11, you'll have the effect you described perfectly, of hearing a sharp attack followed by the volume instantly zooming down to almost nothing.

I'm not clear from your replies if you at least have that working now?

The very sharp attack you're describing is from a high velocity value - how hard a key is struck. The Strad is very sensitive to velocity, and for many passages, extremely low levels are needed for natural, soft attacks on notes.

I thought perhaps you were confused about where the keyswitches were, that's why I pointed them out earlier. I'm sure you understand I'm only trying to help. Your reply clearly shows that you're getting frantic to get the instrument working correctly, since you'd hoped to be using it very soon.

From what you've described, I can't tell what else could be wrong. You Do understand that the basic setting, keyswitch C1 IS capable of playing two notes? When you're in that keyswitch, the instrument automatically switches back forth from mono mode (for most passages) and polyphonic mode when notes are played at the same time and their attacks are within 20 milliseconds of each other.

In one more attempt to understand what you're saying - I really don't know what the following is supposed to mean:

"...THe only key switch I get is a#2 anything about that mutes the sound untill i hit c1 again. In c1 it is unusable..."

#2 what? --And I guess you mean anything "above" that, not "about"--? C1 Sharp triggers the mutes until you hit C1 again - that part is right. What does "in C1 it is unusable" mean--What is unusable? -- I'm sorry, I can't decipher what you're saying.

I seriously doubt that your disc is faulty. If there was a glitch in the disc's data, it wouldn't have loaded up for installation. If programming was incorrect on your disc, that would mean a huge number of discs pressed at the same time would have the same problems, yet there aren't hundreds of users having the same problem.

That's why I really feel that you're still experiencing some misunderstanding and confusion about how The Strad works in KP2 - and I've done what I can, based on your difficult-to-decipher posts, to help you out.

I hope to see you coming back saying "AH! I GOT IT!" - I'm sure you Will figure it out, I just hope for your sake that it's sooner rather than later.

Randy B.

[Jeff4h]

Randy

sorry for the confusion. THe way your first post read I thought you were the person I spoke to. Let me try to narrow down my problem and just ask a couple of question,
1 my expression pedal it is working, if it was not set to cc11 would it work at all

2 about the keyswitch problem, the only time I get a change in sound is when I hit a# 2, then the sound changes to pizzacoto, it stays that way untill I hit c1. If I hit a note outside of the range of the instrument it mutes the sound untill i hit c1 no othere keyswitch seems to be working

3 if i hit a note with the mouse or my keyboard, I hit the note one time but it sounds two time, sounds like a up and down stroke to me. I have not idea if this is normal at this point.

4 I read something in a old post about a conflict if another bfd is installed, is this still a problem. I have kontakt 2 installed, as well as acoustic legends which by the way shows up when I open Strad. It shows up right under the
strad. I cannot load a sound from it though. Is this normal for it to show up like this

Im going to my studio now. I will get it going if it kills me. I know Im probably frustrating you and IM sorry. Im not frantic but frustrated but we will figure it out. I suppose the first thing I need to know is if my expression pedal is working right

[rbowser-]

Hello again, Jeff

At least we've established that I'm not the one who spoke to you on the phone! lol

I've reached the end of my resources on what's going wrong. My hope is that other folks will see your thread and come up with more possible solutions. I have No idea what else to tell you.

I finally get one thing though--when you were saying "a #2"--I didn't realize you meant the note A. Usually when we're referring to a note, it's capitalized. I thought you were just saying "a number 2"--and had no idea what you meant.

"...the only time I get a change in sound is when I hit a# 2, then the sound changes to pizzacoto, it stays that way untill I hit c1..."

Pizzacato is on A#1, I don't know why you're getting it on A#2. But of course it will stay engaged until you hit C1, that's the way keyswitches work. They remain in effect until you choose another one.

And I guess you do understand that there is a blank octave between the highest keyswitch note and the lowest Violin note? If you hit one of those "blank" keys, you will turn off the instrument's sound.

As I said - I hope others can join in and track down your problem. I don't know have anything else to offer!

Best of luck with it.

Randy B.

[Giorgio Tommasini]

First of all, thanks so very much Randy for your precious help.

Jeff,

Please provide me a wav + midi file of your attempts. As Randy correctly points out, this is looking like you get pizzicato correctly working since it does not require CC11. We need to know whether CC11 and the right keyswitches are properly used.

Best regards,

Giorgio

giorgio.tommasini@fastwebnet.it

[rbowser-]

Thank You very much, Giorgio - I try to help when I can.

This is excellent that Jeff has the opportunity of sending some files to you. Hopefully he'll do that, and the errors will be straightened out. The results could be instructive to others, so maybe a follow up could be posted on this thread.

Randy B.

[Haydn]

I venture to say that your expression pedal is probably mapped to CC7 which is the volume controller. Many instruments only use CC7 for volume and don't use CC11. You'll need to go into your keyboard controllers pedal setup and check to see that it is actually set to CC11. Also, if you have a programmable slider on your keyboard, the check to see if you can set it to CC11. The instrument will behave exactly like you have said if CC11 is not being sent to it. Most of the keyswitches need CC11 to sound like they are working.

Jim

[Jeff4h]

First of all let me say how impressed I am with the support you have given to me. I have never experienced this level of support from any company. THe first thing Im going to do is make sure my control pedal is right and if that doesnt do it I will send in the wav and midi file. Im sure all this effort will be worth the effort. THank you again for all the help

[Jeff4h]

Ok I solved the double note problem. It seemed to be a problem with the sound card. I was able to solve that. I actually got it to work well with some fast tunes. Here is the problems I have left. I went and watched the demos, no way mine is working like that. I suspect it may be my controler/ I have a computer just for samples and play and record into another computer with nuendo. When I hit a note it registers around -13 and within a second drops to around -36. THis happens with the mouse or the keyboard and volume control. There is no way there should be that much of a drop of in gain that fast. On the demo it appeared that he did not have his controller set to where the notes were all the way off when the pedal was off. In short I cant get enough gain after the initial attack to do anything. I hope it is as simple as the volume pedal.

[rbowser-]

Happy New Year, Jeff!

Now - To straighten out your Strad problems: That's great news that you tracked that odd double note problem down to your sound card.

The problem you've just described, of the volume suddenly dipping way down - That is still due to a lack of MIDI controller #11. That controller is the volume control for The Strad - without using it, you'll never have anything but that extremely low default volume.

An Expression pedal, an actual Expression pedal as opposed to a Volume pedal, sends out cc11.

If your keyboard doesn't have a jack where an Expression pedal can be plugged in, then hopefully it has a wheel or slider which can be programmed to send out cc11.

If that isn't possible, then in your recording software, you'll need to add cc11 by hand in whatever MIDI controller editing window Nuendo has.

If you can't figure out a way to get cc11 going into The Strad with the set up you have, then I urge you to take Giorgio up on his generous offer to examine a MIDI file accompanied with a .wav file so he see what you're doing wrong. - I, along with other people on this thread, can safely say that you are still simply not using any cc11.

Once you straighten that out, you'll be able to feel out how The Strad is played most effectively.

Randy B.

[Jeff4h]

Im sure you are right, I am getting excited, more so than for any program Ive ever had.

my keyboard is a studio logic, I thought it was one of the better ones

I dont see anyway of changing the controller on the pedal though. I have a roland expression pedal, at least I know what the problem is, I dont think it will be that hard to solve, thanks again

[rbowser-]

Hi, Jeff - I hope you continue to look through the documentation of everything you have in your home studio, and everything you can find online. Many of us find the answers we need with just a bit of research.



my keyboard is a studio logic, I thought it was one of the better ones
I just now came back from Googling up what I could on a Studio Logic keyboard. They make scads of different models, so I have no idea which one you have.

But the VMK-161 is an average model, and on the spec list, it says it has 3 programmable pedal inputs. If you have a keyboard model anything like that, then you have a Lot. That means that you can plug in a pedal and program it for however you want to use it--such as the cc11 Expression pedal which is at the core of your problems right now.


I dont see anyway of changing the controller on the pedal though. I have a roland expression pedal, at least I know what the problem is, I dont think it will be that hard to solve, thanks again

Maybe you don't have programmable pedal inputs like the model I just talked about, but it seemed like all the Studio Logic keyboards had that kind of feature. Have you looked up how to program the pedal input to what you need? ---Having a Roland Expression pedal is good, but it doesn't automatically work right - you have to have it plugged in to the proper pedal input which is programmed for cc11, unless it's a simple unprogrammable jack which is labeled "Expression"--in which case it's hardwired to send out cc11.

I really think you have everything you need and that all the info is there if you now avail yourself of it. Dig in a bit--With a bit of manual reading, you should have The Strad working soon.

Randy B.

[Jeff4h]

Hello, thanks for the continued support. My model is the 880 which is much more expensive than the model you looked at. I only have jacks for pedals, one says sustain and the other says volume. I cant get ahold of tech support for studiologic and cant find anything in the manual about how to program it. From everything I have gathered I think this is my problem though. THe volume pedal does work but not like you say it should. Like I said I get a sharp attack and then a 20 to 23 db drop instantly. This is just what everyone says it will do if Im not sending cc11. Hopefully I will get a answer from the email I sent to studiologic soon. Thanks again for all your help, Ill get it worked out. I appreciate the offer of looking at the wave and midi files but Im trying to make sure it is not just the simple problem of not sending cc11 first

[Jeff4h]

FROM WHAT I CAN TELL I NEED A NEW CONTROLLER so to keep from making another mistake I am going to ask some advice on what to get. I thought had bought a top of the line that would do anything, obviously I didnt

1 what are the minimum number of keys I need

2 do I need weighted action, the controller I have will continue to see use for piano. A non weighted would be nice for things like organ, synth, ect. I cant see why it wouldnt just be a matter of taste for this unless someone can tell me different for some reason.

3 can any of you recomend what you are using

4 this is a little off topic but I have used a wind controller in the past but because not many things have programs that will work I gave up on it. Has anyone tried something like a wx 7

thanks for all the help

[Bosco Adama]

I'm not in front of my system right now but here is what I remember about the Strad attack problem that many of us are having.

My setup -
*WinXp
*Sonar
*the free real time Ten Crazy.com controller Midi plugin to convert cc7 to cc 11 during recording.
After recording I convert the cc7 events to cc11 and disable the plugin.
*Fatar Studiologic 880 keyboard set to the most sensitive velocity setting for the strad.
*Yamaha FC7 expression pedal with an adapter that I bought to reverse the wiring of that pedal because it is not the correct polarity. I found this out by recording the pedal cc7 movements and only 20-120 was being sent. Since I reversed the polarity with the adapter 0 -127 is now sent. I bought two other Roland pedals before I figured out that problem.:o

The Strad requires a very light velocity ( vel = 20 > 1) with CC 1 = 120 < 127. Doing this will give a better balance between the attack and sustained portions of a note. The challenge is aquiring a very subtle bow attack. The velocity has to be low.

Then you have to make sure the notes don't overlap or the portamento kicks in. Unless you want the portamento.

I can sort of sequence the strad now. But at least my real violin playing has improved a little over the last two years.

I always have to go back and super tweak everything with the mouse.


__________________

[rfdillon]

I use a utility, MIDI-OX, that enables me to see what MIDI data is being sent from my controller to my PC. It captures all the data and displays it for you, so you can see whether or not CC11 is being sent to the PC. It is freeware for personal use, and I'm sure you can find it by googling MIDI-OX.

[dermod]

The link is http://www.midiox.com/

[Sharkbat]

Personally I use an M-Audio Axiom 61, it seems to have all the features that any (so far) of the Garritan Libraries need. It has sustain and expression pedal slots, many sliders and knobs, mod and pitch bend wheels, and a 61 key semi-weighted keyboard with aftertouch. All of the controls are fully programable, including aftertouch. I'm also using an M-Audio expression pedal. It seemed to get bad reviews, but I got it and it works fine. I think most reviews were complaining about it breaking within a day, but I've had mine for 2 weeks and it hasn't gone bad yet, so I'm hopeful.

Anyway, the Axiom 61 is a great little (medium?) keyboard, and I would highly recommend it.

--Richard

[Jeff4h]

first of all thank you to everyone that has helped me and offered to. The support of this company is great. I really needed to be able to play this instrument live. I dont have time to use the mouse to reshape what I do but Im sure that works fine. I havent had time to work with it for a few days and had actually uninstalled it. Tonight I reinstalled it and installed the vst option. I opened it up in nuendo. Used the input transformer in the midi channel and bingo. THis instrument is fabulous. Im using my studiologic 880, a roland ev5 controll pedal and nuendo. I have perfect controll over everything. It is not finicky, the attack is not to loud if you have good controll over your expression pedal. I have been playing pedal steel for 25 years and my volume pedal control is one of my strong points so I suspect I may have a little better command of that than some of you but it is not that hard. Im going to post a demo soon. I actually do a lot of country oriented things. I couldnt believe how fast it came after I got the controller changed. I didnt think playing it like on the demos was possable live but it is I promise you it is. I couldnt be happier. Last week I was ready to give up. Now I cant wait to play again. Thanks so much to Gary and his team

[rbowser-]

Excellent news, Jeff, that you're up and running with The Strad and that you're so pleased. Yep, the main issue was to get the instrument responding to cc11.

One thing to keep in mind:

"...It is not finicky, the attack is not to loud if you have good control over your expression pedal..."

The attack isn't controlled by the expression pedal. The amount of "chiff" in the attack--the relative softness or aggressiveness is totally controlled by Velocity, which is how strongly the keys are played.

As Bosco very helpfully pointed out, The Strad requires a very light touch.

Then the expression pedal of course controls the volume, so that working in tandem with the velocity values is the key to realistic playing.

Since you're set up and working with it now, I just needed to point out the one incorrect thing in your follow-up post, to help you get even more out of The Strad.

Have fun!

Randy B.

[Jeff4h]

I realize the attack is not controlled by the expression pedal. However you can bring the pedal all the way back to where there is no sound when you hit the note and then bring your expression pedal up quickly and it sounds very smooth. Again maybe that comes from my years of pedal steel playing but It works great. At any rate it works for me. Im very excited to spend more time with this great instrument. Does the cello work the same

[rbowser-]

OK, Jeff - Since you said you were controlling the attack with Expression, it sounded like you didn't understand how Velocity actually controls the attacks. Good. And if you can now manage to use a soft touch on the first notes of passages, followed by stronger velocities to avoid too much Portamento, you'll have the natural sound of bow on string, instead of fading up from nothing. It'd be a worthy thing to try.

It's great that your experience as a pedal steel player is making the use of the Expression pedal so natural to you.

Hope you post some pieces for us to hear in The Listening Room!

Randy B.

[Jeff4h]

thanks for all the tips. I see what you are saying, I was getting a little of that last night. I was only able to play about a half hour after I got it going. I was just thrilled how well I could controll it. I was starting to get the natural string sound some like your talking about. Im excited to see how well I can adapt it to some more country style things than anyone else has. Also like some western swing type fidlles intros they used to do with three part harmony. I watched all the tuturiols at work today, dont tell me boss, and Im going to watch them a lot, I get more excited all the time. I cerainly never meant to imply Ive conquered the instrument but feel from the amount of controll I see I have I will be able to. thanks again for the help Jeff