Sibelius Rocks!!!!

[donnie]

I know this doesn\'t have much to do with sample libraries BUT.....

Just got Sibelius and it is sooo cool. I have been a Finale user for over 6 years and know it inside and out but this thing has convinced me to switch. I love everything about it and it is so well thought out.

Kudos to the Sibelius team!

Donnie

[Tokyo Joe]

You\'re right, it doesn\'t have much to do with sample libraries.

[LifeForceExplorer]

Sibelius totally rocks. Welcome to the Sibelius congregation. Have you got Version 2.1 ? Its a new free update just released about a week ago that greatly reduces Sibelius 2 CPU demand - I think they had GS partially in mind in making it as there are quite a few GS users popping up over on their forum.

[jkrans]

Originally posted by Tokyo Joe:
You\'re right, it doesn\'t have much to do with sample libraries.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Maybe not, but this is a totally relevant topic here in this forum. Donnie is right...Sibelius is amazing, and there are an awful lot of Giga users out there using this software with their Giga PCs. I myself would like to see more Sibelius/GigaStudio discussions here in this forum.

[Jamieh]

Ok guys, you\'ve piqued my interest!

What exactly is Sibelius? Is is a notation/printing software? Or a sequencer? Or both? I\'m currently using Cakewalk as my sequencer and I use Finale for all of my notation needs. I\'ve used Finale for many years, and while it is very powerful, it still takes me way too long to get stuff produced with it.

[donnie]

Actually I worked with one of the guys over there about adding some new features so don\'t be surprised if some REALLY cool things pop up...like alternating between left and right hand hits via text (ie. r,l,rr,l,r,ll).

I used Finale for over 7 years and I can tell honestly say that Sibelius blows Finale away.

Donnie

[apessino]

Donnie,

I can think of ways to do alternating hits already in Sibelius, albeit not as simply as specifying l/r in the score, but perhaps more effectively because playback of alternating hits could be performed _without_ visually affecting the notation, if desired.

You could create a new type of percussion staff, let\'s assume a single line staff for a snare drum. It is possible to assign a different MIDI playback pitch based on the notehead in use, instead of just the position on the staff. It is quite easy, then, to make a staff where a notehead plays the right hand sample, and a different notehead the left hand, maybe a third one a roll, etc. Once the staff is defined, you can just right-click->Staff Type Change->[select the staff type] and then click _anywhere_ on an existing staff to change it to the desired type from that point on, even mid-measure! You could then enter the music normally (let\'s assume that the default notehead is the right hand hit), then select the notes to be played by the left hand, and finally pick the \"left hand\" notehead from the popup menu. There you go, instant alternating l/r on playback.

You could use visually distinct noteheads in the beginning (so that\'s easy to tell which is which), but eventually multiple noteheads could have the same graphic so as to hide the playback \"trick,\" or you could even add your own notehead graphics, maybe ones with little Ls or Rs under the note so you don\'t even have to enter the text by hand! images/icons/smile.gif

Combine the above with the fact that you can have unlimited staff types and that you can mix them freely in the score at the touch of the mouse and you\'ve got a damn flexible system, I think.

Cheers,

A-

--------
Andrea G. Pessino (not female, just Italian)
Blizzard Entertainment

apessino@blizzard.com

[LifeForceExplorer]

Jamieh - It\'s a really superb notation program in a new verion 2, really a pleasure if you\'re a long-haired classical type like me - much more intuitive than Finale. It keeps getting closer to being a decent sequencer - you can perform to it in a recording mode called \"Flexi-time\" but, alas, it doesnt really have the Midi controllers and Midi features you need to fine tune such a \"performance.\"

If this new forum server can do it, here\'s the thread about it from this forum (sample libraries)just a few days ago. Read this and you\'ll have your PhD on the whole thing:

http://www.northernsounds.com/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002314 (\"http://www.northernsounds.com/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002314\")

Otherwise look back for it about 40 threads ago at a post called \"Wanted Sibelius Wiz\" or something like that, from Thomas_J.
-LifeForce

[donnie]

Originally posted by apessino:
Donnie,

I can think of ways to do alternating hits already in Sibelius, albeit not as simply as specifying l/r in the score, but perhaps more effectively because playback of alternating hits could be performed _without_ visually affecting the notation, if desired.

You could create a new type of percussion staff, let\'s assume a single line staff for a snare drum. It is possible to assign a different MIDI playback pitch based on the notehead in use, instead of just the position on the staff. It is quite easy, then, to make a staff where a notehead plays the right hand sample, and a different notehead the left hand, maybe a third one a roll, etc. Once the staff is defined, you can just right-click->Staff Type Change->[select the staff type] and then click _anywhere_ on an existing staff to change it to the desired type from that point on, even mid-measure! You could then enter the music normally (let\'s assume that the default notehead is the right hand hit), then select the notes to be played by the left hand, and finally pick the \"left hand\" notehead from the popup menu. There you go, instant alternating l/r on playback.

You could use visually distinct noteheads in the beginning (so that\'s easy to tell which is which), but eventually multiple noteheads could have the same graphic so as to hide the playback \"trick,\" or you could even add your own notehead graphics, maybe ones with little Ls or Rs under the note so you don\'t even have to enter the text by hand! images/icons/smile.gif

Combine the above with the fact that you can have unlimited staff types and that you can mix them freely in the score at the touch of the mouse and you\'ve got a damn flexible system, I think.

Cheers,

A-

--------
Andrea G. Pessino (not female, just Italian)
Blizzard Entertainment

apessino@blizzard.com<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Andrea,

You have without a doubt proven yourself to be the Sibelius guru!

I have a quick question for you if you don\'t mind.

How do you get back to the regular \"arrow\" selection tool. It seems that whenever I go to input music I can\'t select anything else because if I clck anywhere it puts a note in. So how do you get back to the \"section\" tool?

Thanks,

Donnie

[apessino]

Donnie, to get out of the insert mode (or any modal state) try hitting the escape key..

Oh, and.. welcome to the club! And thank you for the \"guru\" award.. it\'s an honor just being nominated.. images/icons/wink.gif

A-

[sri_bubba]

Originally posted by apessino:
Donnie, to get out of the insert mode (or any modal state) try hitting the escape key..

Oh, and.. welcome to the club! And thank you for the \"guru\" award.. it\'s an honor just being nominated.. images/icons/wink.gif

A-<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I began using Finale 1.0 in 1989. Hyperscribe just couldn\'t \"do\" it so everything was step recorded. A Korg T3 played everything back.

I had SO much fun when my choir director heard about what I was doing (\"a COMPUTER for music composition? How interesting!\") and hooked me up with the chair of BSU\'s Music Department, who was looking for a way to take his choir on the road with Rutter\'s \"Gloria\"...without the brasses, percussion or pipe organ. I transcribed the score into Finale and made that old eight-voice Korg jump through many, many flaming hoops as the project came together. What fun we had as he learned about the then-modern new ways of making real music with a computer/synth and I got free music lessons from a Ph.D.! Dr. Elliot heard EVERYTHING. I learned more about music in those six weeks than in any five year period since.

So, the recording was made, the tour commenced. I was in the debut concert and much glory was heaped upon my humble, stooped shoulders when the Rutter was introduced and the audience prepared for \"what you\'re about to hear was done on a computer...\".

The timpani were, believe it or not, the major challenge. Getting the assymetrical burbles and bobbles of a real timpani roll using a (1980\'s) notator was REAL fun.

Anyway, I have Finale 2000 now and the same thing bugs me now as did then: the difficulty of working in MIDI to fine-tune expression. I\'ve pretty much decided that I need to improve my \"ear\" composing using a sequencer interface vs. wistfully pining after a notator that can SHOW me the notes as I massage the data for expressiveness. How I\'ve dreamed for a notator that can sequence like a Sonar or Cubase...Overture 2.2, which I also have, approaches but misses...

I downloaded the Sibelius 2.0 demo a few days ago. Beautiful notator; more and more folks are talking about it. It IS easier to use than Finale. BUT...

I haven\'t yet found the trick to opening more than one MIDI port with it. So far I can only find 16 channels.

How to implement GS\' 4x16 MIDI channels? Gurus, is there a way? The rest of the MIDI implementation seems designed to \"de-technify\", thus limiting easy access, but it looks easier than Finale by any stretch of the imagination.

What about the ports?

Sorry for the long winded \"ramble-iloqy\"--

Jim

[mitchb2]

This is great to hear! I\'ve been evaluating both.
Finale makes me curse constantly...I hate it.

On the other hand, Sibelius (demo) has been so great, I kept thinking \"What\'s the catch?\"

In anticipation of purchasing Sibelius, I went out and bought a USB numerical keypad that I can place on the left side of my PC keyboard.
Talk about sweet! You can FLY through the modes with your left hand on the keypad and right hand on the mouse.

I can\'t wait to get the full version in a few weeks. Gotta love academic discounts!

[Aaron Levitz]

At version 1.2, I\'d have to agree with you. Jumping to 2.0 is a world of difference, however. (and I haven\'t looked into 2.1 yet)

This being said, Finale\'s still a damn fine piece of software, and I can certainly respect your choice.

[dwdonehoo]

OT: Hey Aaron! Howzzit going? I met you at the GDC. I have one question. \"God of Thunder\"?? images/icons/wink.gif images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/cool.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif
See ya at E3.

[apessino]

I haven\'t yet found the trick to opening more than one MIDI port with it. So far I can only find 16 channels.
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">sri_bubba,

in Sibelius you associate a \"device\" (what you\'d call a MIDI port) and one of its 16 channels with each staff.

First, look at the \"Devices..\" dialog under the \"Play\" menu. Here you\'ll find the list of all MIDI devices available on your system. If you have GigaStudio installed on the same machine you\'ll see the four Nemesys MIDI ports listed there. Make sure that the devices you want to use have a \"yes\" under the \"Use\" column, if they don\'t click on the \"no\" to change it to \"yes.\"

Next, create your score however you like, and then go to the Mixer (press M) and notice that on the top right side there is a popup menu labeled \"Device.\" That menu lists all of the devices currently enabled in the Devices dialog you used earlier. For each staff you can select which device to play back with, on which channel, and several other settings. The device and channel assignments are the _only_ MIDI settings you cannot change from within the score using explicit commands, so it is a good idea to plan ahead and set them up correctly. All other MIDI settings for a staff (sounds, panning, controllers, etc.) can be changed explicitly in the score, so the Mixer settings are just initial values provided for convenience.

There is a lot more to say (using custom Sound Sets, device substitution, dictionary commands, etc.), but that\'s what the User\'s Guide is for.. images/icons/wink.gif if you decide to purchase the full version you\'ll find that the documentation is excellent and very easy to read.

Good luck,

A-

[composer22]

Donnie:

I don\'t know what people find so exciting about Sibelius. I used both Finale and Sibelius (1.2) and found them similar in functionality but both lacking the ability to edit controller data, which I like to do BEFORE importing into cubase. In fact, I elected to steer away from Sibelius because:

1) Copy protection schema was driving me nuts

2) Most of the plugin\'s in Finale were lacking coresponding plugin functionality in Sibelius.

so...I stuck to Finale...

[sri_bubba]

Thanks apessino!

[ursatz]

Ok, here\'s a question from a non-user of both Sibelius and Finale. I\'ve been told (several months ago) that Finale is harder to use than Sibelius, but that you can do *anything* with it. My interest would be in notating out-of-the-ordinary rhythmic things - for starters, several different meters at once, maybe not even in rational ratios. Or maybe no time signature at all. Could this sort of thing be done in the new Sibelius? Thanks for any thoughts.