Does it really make any difference

[tunesmith]

I am a bit hesitant to start this because I don't want to get into a war over Mac or PC. I really need some help in trying to figure this out.

I have been a long time music PC user, my son is going to college in the fall to major in music. Some music schools seem to be all about MAC's, but I really don't know why. Is it because of exclusive software or is the MAc just easier, better or more creative. In reading posts on Mac sites it seems we are all plaged with our share of problems. My music college just purchaed a Mac pro and is now contemplating adding XP to it to get some of the software he needs. He made the statement, if I do this, why did I drop $4000 on a Mac?

The reason I ask this is because my son will need a laptop. I am wondering if it will be "really" benificial to pay the extra money for a Mac.

Is there really a bottom line to this?

Don't shoot me! :)

Jim

[Nigel W]

The Mac is a whole lot more comfortable to set up, for music work in particular. In terms of price/performance ratio the gap between Mac & PC has narrowed a lot.

Traditionally the Mac has been the "media" computer of choice- partly for software reasons, partly 'cos it's hip, and if your son's college recommends it, I'd go with that. Even the starter models have great performance & facilities. The PC has a lot of free & low-cost software available, but prices for most semi-pro Mac software are fairly affordable, and there are often student discounts to be had.

Computing is not a stress- or worry-free activity if you depend on the machine to get your work done. On Mac or PC, you can remain blissfully ignorant and trust your luck, or spend a little time getting informed about setting up for your purposes, updating, backing up, etc.

The advice of an experienced person, whether dealer or friend, can help a lot and save you a great deal of time.

Good luck!

Nigel

PS if you edit your Post Title to make it clear "Mac/PC" that might help get responses ;-)

[PeterRoos]

Carefully trying also not to step into a Mac vs PC discussion:

I have always been a PC builder (also because of my software design/development work for this platform). I think it can be a real advantage to be able to configure and alter your hardware setup. It's very easy to build a PC from scratch with carefully selected components (I just built a new Quadcore DAW).

Macs always used to be more expensive (and certainly more stylish!) than PCs. I have no idea what the current ratio is.

If I were a fulltime pro, I would certainly check out the differences (pros and cons) between Cubase 4/PC and Logic 8/Mac and consider going multi-platform. For now, I just like to be able to select and manage my hardware the "PC-way".

Also, building/upgrading PCs can be interesting if you can deduct what you buy. A complete system cannot be deducted in one year. Separate components can... ;-)

Cheers,

Peter

PS: I always have to smile at signatures with hard and software listings... :) A good sign of pride, but once you get more and more hardware you can't showcase it anymore in a sig ;)

[waltew]

If you decide to go with mac, be careful. Macs manufactured after oct 2007 (exept macpro and macmini) are sometimes NOT compatible with external firewire audio interfaces due to a new firewire-circuit (Ageres). Try before you buy, if you plan to use firewire that is.

[spectrum]

Probably the biggest advantage the Mac has currently is that it can run both OSX Leopard AND Windows XP/Vista with music apps/plug-ins.

Since there are some fantastic Mac-only music apps (like Logic Pro), that would objectively put the Mac as an advantage in having access to the most options available from one computer...since all the PC-only music software is also then available to use on the same machine. Also, the value for money ratio with Logic Pro is hard to beat on the Mac or PC.

So the price is slightly more than PCs and they aren't as "built your own", but the hardware is excellent and you can use just about anything in the music software world from a current Mac.

[AlexDavis]

Though a Mac CAN double as PC, I want to point out that not all of the kinks have yet been worked out.

I bought a Mac Pro in June '07 thinking I'd be able to use it on both sides. It turned out that because of a glitch in Boot Camp, my "PC" can only see 2 GB of my RAM, when Native Windows XP should be able to run 4 GB. Big Bummer, and it STILL hasn't been resolved, despite my weekly inquiries. Apple hasn't even acknowledged that this is an issue!

Also, my firewire interface does not function in Boot Camp (XP on my Mac Pro), and I could never figure out why. Had to buy a USB 2.0 Interface to replace it.

As you can see, I'm not too happy with Apple right now. I've even been having issues with OS 10.5 that have Apple engineers scratching their heads.

Point is, if you want a PC, buy a PC.

-Alex

[StrangeCat]

Mac is more user friendly then a PC. Windows will just add and add and add crap to your well windows.
Updates more updates and some more updates. Though you can run everything very successful after a while you will start to run into problems, blue screen of death, windows error screen, register errors, hey just to name a few^_-

But remember both work for music and both have huge selection of samplers, sequencers, synths, and notation programs to use.

I use a PC myself.

oh and right now a mac is the fastest computer at the moment.

[Haydn]

Strangecat,

I'm not sure what you mean by just add and add crap to Windows. I have a pretty stable Windows environment which I only patched occasionally. I don't get crashes or BSOD's on my systems and I have quite a few in my house. Also, I support over 800 Windows XP systems in training rooms spread around the world. We rarely experience BSOD's mainly because we don't install unnecessary software. We actually have quite a few well tested apps in these builds. 99% of the crashes we do experience are from hardware going bad. We've had issues with DELL machines having bulging capacitors issues in a few of our rooms. So I see Windows XP as a very stable environment. We haven't had any virus outbreaks in the past couple years either.

Mac's also have security vulnurabilities. See below in an article posted in Mac News.

Apple released patches for 45 vulnerabilities Tuesday, its first large-scale security update since August 2006. The update was issued on the day Microsoft opted to sit out on what would normally be its regular "Patch Tuesday." Apple has received credit for fixing known flaws, but it may have to get more serious about security if it wants to take on Vista.

The article continues to talk about how Apple needs to get serious about security as they are dragging behind Microsoft.

All operating systems have security vulnerabilities. You just don't read about them as much as you do for Microsoft. The more popular an OS is, the more attacks it will recieve.

BTW, Mac's are using the same Intel CPU's as PC's these days. So speeds are about the same.

Jim

[StrangeCat]

man I hate being sick, when your sick you can't do anything even your brain finds composing a chore and won't function.

yes add ons as in updates for windows. Most errors will come from IE. and yes Windows is constanty being updated. XP that is.

Ah Hayden you said you don't install software a lot there is why your Windows machines are so stable.
I would think that you must have certain software on each for composing, sequencing and select few of other tasks. Your not adding anything new to windows right?


No you are incorrect at the time Macs have the fastest computer there was even a right up on Virtual Instrument Magazine (or was that Sound on Sound)about it once but there is even a faster computer now My cousin who works at Paramount just got the fastest Mac a couple months ago.

I am not saying macs or Pc's are better I was just saying that Macs are more comfortable for the user.
Music? both can get the job done^_-

[bugs]

With the Mac platform you also get a religion with which to conform. ;)

[Tomke]

Where I come from, lots of people will sign on to the conviction that with Windows you will find help much easier, for example on forums or amongst your friends and their friends. Some say this is a sign of that with a Mac you don't need help. However, some also say that since every man over 17 is a self proclaimed Windows expert there are more potential risks than help at large, and paying for professional mac support - if needed - is a more painless way to help anyway.

Myself, I don't choose sides anymore. I'm on PC, because I couldn't afford good macs when I was younger, and today I'm feel too damn stacked up on the PC to switch. With real careful and customized selecting of hardware and software, it runs rather well.

[L0W]

Can you play BF2 on a Mac?

[rikp]

Here is my 2 cents:

I am a die hard Mac guy. :D I purchased a Dell for my son. That is what he wanted! Long story short. I have NEVER had to replace a hard drive on my Macs (I own 9 of them). I have replaced the hard drive on my Son's Dell 3 times already (in 2-years). Granted it was under warranty. But what a PITA!

Peace

rikp

[Daryl]

Simple answer; use whatever the college recommends. It really doesn't matter which is best.

D

[PaulR]

Can you play BF2 on a Mac?

Yes.

If you want cheap - get a PC (although you may need more than one) - if you want expensive - get a Mac - (but wait until the next Mac announcement coming shortly).

[Little Red King]

Here is my 2 cents:
...
I have NEVER had to replace a hard drive on my Macs (I own 9 of them). I have replaced the hard drive on my Son's Dell 3 times already (in 2-years). Granted it was under warranty. But what a PITA!
...

Does Mac or PC really have anything to do with the hard disk drive? There are only a handful of HDD manufacturers in the world (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk ) and I would imagine that the Macs and the PCs are overlapping in their choice of HDD manufacturers. No?

[Haydn]

rikp,

I hard drive is a hard drive. It may be that Dell was putting cheaper hard drives in that machine. A hard drive will crash as much in a Mac as a PC. I've seen certain models of IBM machines at work have hard drive problems and most have been replaced in these machines. I've had hundreds of Dells that have never had a hard drive replaced. It just depends on the brand and model they used. The failing drives were Maxtor units that were actually Quantum drives. These Quantum drives were just garbage.

Jim

[FireGS]

StrangeCat,

Configure a Mac and PC with the exact hardware? Yep, youre right, Mac, (for audio) will test better. Max out a Mac with the MAX hardware it can support, and max out a PC with the MAX hardware it can support, and a PC will blow it away. No question about it, at all - ever.

And to be fair to PC's, if you max out a Mac, it actually uses Mac server parts. If I was to max out a PC with server parts, it'd be about about 2:1 in performance, PC to Mac.

~Fire

[JT3_Jon]

I dont know what area of music your son wants to focus (e.g. commercial music, film score, orchestral, instrument study) but if his goals are to be a commercial composer, I say get him the system he has little-no experience using. This may sound odd, but being able to freely switch between mac/pc in the daw world will open him up to many more job opportunities than being stuck in a single format.

[rikp]

rikp,

I hard drive is a hard drive. It may be that Dell was putting cheaper hard drives in that machine. A hard drive will crash as much in a Mac as a PC. I've seen certain models of IBM machines at work have hard drive problems and most have been replaced in these machines. I've had hundreds of Dells that have never had a hard drive replaced. It just depends on the brand and model they used. The failing drives were Maxtor units that were actually Quantum drives. These Quantum drives were just garbage.

Jim

Jim:

Actually I do know that. It just seems really strange that this has happened twice to the same machine. We have had quite a few Dell drives fail in our lab, while the 20 Mac machines have been great! Although I will say the the new Dells seem to be doing better. Lesson learned?

Peace

rikp

[StrangeCat]

http://www.apple.com/macpro/

my cousin got the 8core.

this wasn't about Mac vs Pc. There is only one rule and that is that Pc's have more games^_-
Adobe Photo shop stick with the Mac. Mac's Midi set up is a dream compared to PC's.

and now the hilarity of Mac Vs Pc
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/selling-it/macbook-pro-fastest-windows-laptop-not-so-fast-331223.php

later gents:samurai:

[Aaron Dirk]

Here's the lowdown about Mac vs PC

Mac users don't hate PC's, but sure love their Macs
PC users don't love their PC's, but sure hate Macs

I have/use both Mac and PC
The great thing with my PC at the moment is Call of Duty 4 *()
The great thing with my Mac at the moment is Keymap1.5 and Bias Peak Pro (still waiting for version 6....)

I can compose on either one fine
But, neither one actually makes me compose better....

When the PC goes down, I'm pissed
When the Mac goes down, I'm bummed.

When I was a kid, I told my dad I really wanted this kick ~~~ Redline BMX bike down at the bicycle shop.
Instead, I got a lame P.O.S 15 speed Huffy bicycle from Toys'R'us
It was such a drag.... (so I went and bought it myself and never rode the 15 speed)
If you really want to know whats best for him - go ask him what he wants
What if he really wanted a Mac and you got him a P.O.S. Dell?

[Saraswati]

I've only owned a computer since late 1999, and it's been Mac all the way. I've never had a virus, even after starting to use music software 2 years ago and doing everything (emails, internet surfing, music) on the same computer.

Also, having a Mac made it so much easier to get into computer music, because GarageBand, which is actually a fantastic little starter program (now 24 bit), comes free with every Mac. It's simplicity is revolutionary, and there's an easy transition to Logic Pro. Without that, I might have found the learning curve too much and given up.

And everything on Macs is so well integrated with everything else (music, DVD's, photos, movies, podcasting, etc.), making it easy to do multi-media projects from the very beginning without a big learning curve or extra expense.

Just my 2 cents worth-- :)

Saraswati

[Kaatza Music]

I use both, but my DAW is on a Mac. I have used Logic since 1.0 on a mighty Atari STe (and Notator SL before that). I then went to Logic on PC up to version 5. When Apple bought Logic and it became Mac only, I switched because I like Logic and really didn't want to learn how to use a different DAW. Logic was hard enough.

[noldar12]

Warning, rant follows for first 1/2 of this post, then the second half hopefully will be of some use!!!

OK, enough is enough... <Gets out fire hose and starts spraying water all over the place, and watches as all the Macs and PC's short out, as the flames are put out>;) It is interesting to me that once again the Mac side starts the flame war. As one poster said earlier, for many Mac IS a religion.

Both sides, get over it - both do the job well, and each can do some things that the other cannot. I used to use Mac, now use PC. In all honesty, I did prefer the Mac, but when my sight limitations hit, I had to switch to a PC as there were things I had to be able to do that were not possible on a Mac (and I spent many hours talking to the folks in Cupertino). As for now, to run Windows on a Mac... why pay the premium? Side note: one advantage for getting a Mac would be the ability to run programs designed for both the Mac and the PC platform.

Both systems have parts that break - as one friend once put it, with electronics, one thing is guaranteed - parts will break.

I do believe that for the time being Vista is one of the best marketing tools for Apple that they never had to create (and their marketing department is second to none).

<rant over>

As for the original purpose of this thread, as others said earlier, what does the school suggest, and what does your son want? PC's offer greater flexibility, but have more compatibility issues since Apple is a relatively closed system.

One alternate approach possibly worth considering: Determine what programs your son expects to need to be using, allowing for some expansion. Purchase the computer based on those needs. Given the extreme depreciation of computers, if he can avoid the "buy a new computer every two years" syndrome, he will save considerable money in the long run as the goal is to to be able to make music, not go broke buying new computer hardware. If the computer does what is needed, there is really no reason to upgrade it, either in terms of hardware or software. There are some situations where even buying used can make great sense - let someone else pay the depreciation expense. This works, of course, only if the used computer can run the needed programs, and that a full blown upper end DAW is not necessary at this point.

Hope that helps (at least the last part of this post:) ).

Jim

[FireGS]

An 8 Core (dual Xeon or dual Core Extreme) will outperform the 8 core Mac. Simple. Why? The higher FSB on the newest PC mobos compared to the Mac Pros, Bigger I/O bandwidth for almost everything.. etc...

Also, DDR3 RAM anyone? PCI Express 2.0?

Lets add some more gas to the fire; that same PC configured with Linux and a good kernel compilation will out-perform both the PC and the Mac.

[Steve_Karl]

Lets add some more gas to the fire; that same PC configured with Linux and a good kernel compilation will out-perform both the PC and the Mac.

Probably will. I can't wait 'til someone get's samba to actually "do the dance" and someone developes the all in one Audio/Midi/Video app for Linux.

That will be a great day for sure!

[Steve_Karl]

Here's the lowdown about Mac vs PC

Mac users don't hate PC's, but sure love their Macs
PC users don't love their PC's, but sure hate Macs



I personally, find it impossible to love any ininamate object.
I also don't hate anything or anyone. It just doesn't make sence.
Probably my PC mindset. :D