Wondering why? Score issues

[Raymond62]

I have a score of a symphony in D minor. Some strange transposing.

Flutes: key D minor/one b - as normal
Oboes: key D minor/one b - as normal
English Horn: key C/nothing
Clarinets Bb: key G/one #
Horns in Fa: key C/nothing
etc..
even Timpani is transposed into C/no sharp/flat symbols

Why is that? Reasons? It contradicts the normal transposing rules.

Raymond

[Jeff Turner]

It's not that the horns and timpani and transposed incorrectly, but traditionally these particular instruments are written with no key signature and all accidentals are notated as they occur.

Jeff

[DarwinKopp]

Hi Raymond,


English Horn: key C/nothing This is correct. The E.Hn. is written up a fifth, d-minor >>> a-minor, no accidentals.


Clarinets Bb: key G/one # This is correct. Bb clarinet is written up a second, d-minor >>> e-minor, one sharp.


Horns in Fa: key C/nothing As Jeff said, it had been customary to write the horns and trumpets without key signatures, instead writing in the accidentals as they occur. This is less true in modern scores. However, in this particular case, the transposition is actually correct. Horn in F is written up a fifth, d-minor >>> a-minor, no accidentals.


even Timpani is transposed into C/no sharp/flat symbols The timpani are a special case. They almost never use a key signature. And, in some older scores, they often don't even indicate the accidentals at all, just a note, for example, telling the timpanist to play Eb and Bb (usually in a foreign language) when E and B are what is written. Needless-to-say, this sometimes produces an "interesting" effect if the timpanist is caught unawares. Really old scores from the baroque era don't even write anything like the pitches required, instead always using C and G, with a note to tune to D and A, for example.

Regards,
Darwin

[Raymond62]

Thanks folks,

I knew that, but setting up this score in Overture with midi instruments gave me different transpositions. Later I used a list with Midi transposing from the Net and got confused, because those figures where again different.

I didn't know about the horns and trumpets, nor the timpani. Now it is all solved... must get some skill reading tranposed instruments.

Raymond

[Skysaw]

Of course you could always go atonal... never have to worry about those pesky key signatures again! :D

[Raymond62]

Of course you could always go atonal... never have to worry about those pesky key signatures again! :D

My whole life is atonal. Let me for once use some old fashion structure in this part of my chaotic existence....... haha:D

Raymond - and don't say that chaos is also a structure.

[snorlax]

I have a score of a symphony in D minor. Some strange transposing.

Flutes: key D minor/one b - as normal
Oboes: key D minor/one b - as normal
English Horn: key C/nothing
Clarinets Bb: key G/one #
Horns in Fa: key C/nothing
etc..
even Timpani is transposed into C/no sharp/flat symbols

Why is that? Reasons? It contradicts the normal transposing rules.

Raymond

Hi, Raymond... http://www.garritan.info/index.php/A_Primer_on_Transposition and

http://www.garritan.info/index.php/Transposition_Guide are helpful. Timp often have no keysig, but accidentals are always in front of the notes that need them. Remember that timps are tuned in advance of playing, so a keysig isn't really necessary. It's not a transposition, just a different notation style.