Leaving the forum...

[SCARBEE]

Disregard. Please end this thread. I keep getting those email notifications and can\'t stop reading the posts... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Scarbee

Ups! I posted again - hey Z6 are you there? http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/tongue.gif


[This message has been edited by SCARBEE (edited 04-22-2002).]

[Simon Ravn]

Hmm Thomas, I don\'t have the image that you have of the situation here. Maybe there are a couple of people who dont \'like\' developers in general, who believe that you can create outstanding libraries with a snap of your fingers, think all libraries are too pricey etc etc., but I don\'t think that is the general attitude here at all. Sad to see you leave, and I think you might be overreacting. I didn\'t see anything but positive words about your libraries. Heck, the only reason I haven\'t bought any of them yet is that it seems I HAVE to buy them from the U.S. which will be pretty expensive for me since I\'ll have to pay double taxes and such.

The worst cases of mudslinging here have been done by developers against other developers, IMHO, not from users towards developers.

[Thomas_J]

Thomas, please don\'t leave. I\'ve always enjoyed your positive posts on this forum. I think the fact that there are so many high quality sample library developers around, mingling with the basic john doe\'s makes this place a very sensitive one for the developers since many users aren\'t aware that the developers are reading the forum, not to mention the ones who don\'t even care.

I think your libraries sound incredible judging from the demos (and if I was doing anything that needed a realistic sounding bass you\'d be the first one I\'d turn to) and I personally don\'t think you should ignore any posts that hits you in the stomach. I think you as a developer can charge whatever you think is right for the libraries you produce (and I do believe your prices are reasonable to say the least!). Don\'t get discouraged by the lot of as*holes out there. You sell professional products for the professional end user. Not the average john doe\'s who don\'t know sh*t about the tedious process and art of sampling.

Do yourself a favor and level yourself above these idiots. They aren\'t worth your time nor attention.

Please stay,

Thomas

[Munsie]

\"Hi,
I have posted many times on this forum and always enjoyed reading threads here. I have tried to raise the bar of sampling with my libraries and also trying to be helpful to users. But things seem to have changed lately...

To be honest I feel both personally insulted and even discouraged to continue my sampling work when I post or read posts here. Why on the earth should I spend 6 months, 7 days a week, 12 hours a day sampling and programnming a library to sell it out for nothing - to a prize set by anonymous forum posters? It seems to be the only issue here: to get most for least.

There is no respect left towards developers visiting the forum and I just can\'t accept this.

I hope that things will change and I will gladly return, but for now its \"bye\".

sorry

Thomas Hansen Skarbye\"

----------------------------------

Thomas,

I thought you were above this kind of threat to the end users of this forum? After all, you are here for us (the paying public) we are not here for you. Alot of the posters here on this forum and possibly including myself, are just plain full of themselves, you know that. There is only about 20-30 users on this forum who actively post. We all have an ego the size of Texas. I always laugh when a developer threatens to leave the forum only to come back soon enough to advertise their latest updates or releases. Public exchange of ideas,opinions, etc. in forums such as these are ALWAYS going to include heated debate at times. If you must leave, fine, no big deal. But advertising it like it\'s a punishment to the forum readers is kind of immature if you ask me.

And again, since you posted this in a public forum you set yourself up for responses such as...

\"Why on the earth should I spend 6 months, 7 days a week, 12 hours a day sampling and programnming a library to sell it out for nothing..\"

I hardly think $145.00 and $200.00 a library is selling it out for nothing.

\"It seems to be the only issue here: to get most for least.\"

DAMN STRAIGHT IT IS! Hey, Tascam is marketing this thing (GS) to totally different demographics now. With the release of Giga32 expect alot more of this attitude from end users. WELCOME TO SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT. You face the EXACT same issues us commercial software developers face every day. Nobody cares WHO writes the software, all they want is something that does the job as cheap as possible. Hey, I wish I could spend a year on a software title and sell it for $145.00 or $200.00 a pop but I can\'t. I spent 6 months on software and my highest price is $89.95. However, I did alot of research and I knew there would be a market for my software BEFORE I got into it. I read this alot, where sample developers start making a library just because they need it for themselves, then end up selling it and complain about piracy or the lack of sales!?!? DO SOME RESEARCH FIRST BEFORE YOU DEDICATE 24/7 TO A PROJECT! I recently read an article about another library where he did substantial research and comparisons BEFORE he jumped into the library. He knew even if it took 1-2 years to finish the library, he would be way ahead of the competition at the end of production.

\"There is no respect left towards developers visiting the forum and I just can\'t accept this.\"

FACT! Software/Sampled developers get no respect. Hey, with the right bank account perhaps you can get a full page ad and an article written about your library, WRITTEN BY YOURSELF and published in a well know magazine as another devloper recently did. THEN you might get some respect! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

If you\'re looking for glory, recognition, it aint\'t gonna happen. Perhaps you made the mistake early on of NOT doing it for the money. I sure as hell wouldn\'t work on something 12 hours a day and not expect a SUBSTANTIAL pay check at some point.

\"I hope that things will change and I will gladly return, but for now its \"bye\".\"

Well, it ain\'t gonna change. It\'s just human nature. I say, ignore the bs, comment when and where you want to. Sometimes it\'s best on a business level to not get involved with the bs that some of us (me!) post.

I\'ve read some heated comments from you about piracy, lack of sales, and now this no respect thing. I can\'t help think on a business level you\'re just getting shafted by Tascam. I remember a few things you have stated to me privately, I REALLY hope things change for the better for you. Hey you might not be the best business man, but you obviously can produce stunning sample libraries. The sample market NEEDS you. (Notice I left out Tascam..) Hire someone to market your libraries. Let someone ELSE worry about these frickin forums, you stick to what you do best, composing, selling your music, creating kick libraries.

For the record, when the J-PICK gets done I will have no problem spending $200.00 on the library. It will be WELL WORTH it to me. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Mark_Knecht]

Thomas,
If you were to go, as one of your registered users, I would truly be disappointed. You have been one of the more positive forces here, and clearly have always seemed to have your user and everyone else\'s best interest at heart.

The forum here, really just this developer\'s portion, has been a bit strange over the last few weeks. I can attest to the idea that visiting here hasn\'t been the highest on my list of things to do lately. I do presume that it will get better. I hope soon.

I\'m a little puzzled by the exact set of events that would cause you to totally leave and certainly hope you will reconsider. You are wanted and needed here and I for one truly appreciate all that you\'ve done for me.

With the very best of regards,
Mark Knecht

[Z6]

I assume you are referring to me (and possibly Munsie and Tokyo Joe - because we were the ones who \'objected\' to the \'cartel\')?

You already said \'Bye\'? Were you worried that you didn\'t get enough people begging you to stay?

I won\'t apologize for being a consumer. And I won\'t apologize for mentioning that your \'cartel\' suggestion might not be such a bright idea. (Although I understand that you think that wasn\'t your suggestion - that Franky might be hurting other developers with his \'low prices\' meant something entirely different.)

Has it ever occurred to you that the concept of high quality and a low price might not be mutually exclusive?

I have stated here many times that I absolutely want developers to maximize their profits. Why wouldn\'t I?

Why wouldn\'t I want you to maximize your profits?

If consumers here are not allowed to talk about libraries (i.e. they have to buy the non-refundable goods and then gush great compliments at all the great artists) and they are not allowed to talk about prices, what are they allowed to talk about?

Your business model stinks; that is why you don\'t make as much money as you\'d like.

You say : \"Why on the earth should I spend 6 months, 7 days a week, 12 hours a day sampling and programnming a library to sell it out for nothing - to a prize set by anonymous forum posters? It seems to be the only issue here: to get most for least.\"

Why indeed?

I don\'t think anyone has a gun to your head? It may have escaped your attention but you are not the only person on the planet who works for a living.

Am I to assume that you want to pay more for goods and services when you shop?

Man, you can charge a million bucks for your stuff for all I care.

\"to sell it out for nothing - to a prize set by anonymous forum posters?\"

What could that possibly even mean?

Thomas, if you want to go pouting over this, that\'s your business. And if people want to put me down as some kind of nasty individual for this then that\'s their affair.

I can only suggest that you compliment your extensive sampling skills with some business skills and please read my posts more carefully instead of leaping in front of insults that do not exist.

\"It seems to be the only issue here: to get most for least.\"

No, it\'s not. And yes, I want the most for the least. I want the best libraries money can buy for as little of that money as possible. I want Hans Adamsen to make a fortune selling the Malmsjo for $100. I want Franky to make as much money as he can for selling his library for whatever it is he sells it for.

I want Gary Garritan to make a fortune. I want you to make a fortune. Where on earth did you get your conclusions from?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe some of the anonymous people here who have \'driven you out\' have skills of their own? That there exists in this world people other than sample developers? That perhaps you might gain from their knowledge on this matter?

If you don\'t think you make enough money doing what you do, then that\'s tough. It is none of my business and you have no right trying to lay the blame at the door of others.

Nobody stole your ball.

And I am not anonymous. My name here, as far as you are concerned, is Z6.

And finally, my good man (and of course you won\'t read this because you already left, twice) \"There is no respect left towards developers visiting the forum and I just can\'t accept this.\"

I offer no respect for developers above that I offer any other human being. It is enough, and much more than you realize.

Seeing as you are obviously such a nice guy (and as a developer, a VIP on this forum) and I am so horrible, I hope that the aid you seek will appear, and I won\'t have to find myself writing these ridiculous posts.

It saddens me that you feel personally insulted and discouraged \"to continue your sampling work\", but we all have decisions to make in life.

Maybe when this sector matures, some large corporation might employ you as a samplist and you won\'t have deal with all the crap that customers provide.

And Thomas-J. Here we go. You took the bait. This is how it is here. Someone extracts an insult from a perfectly innocent post, starts crying and then others come in and call people idiots all over the place.

There were no \'idiots\' posting on this. The posts were reasonable.

Thomas_J please don\'t make this about something other than what it is. It has nothing whatever to do with the \'art\' of sampling. Nobody suggested that Scarbee\'s work was sub-standard.

\"Average John Doe\'s\" indeed. You will, as you get a bit older, realize that you and I and everyone else is exactly that, whether we compose or sample or sweep the street.

If Scarbee wants to leave, let him (and he\'s apparently not taking the short cut either).

If you want me to head out, that is not a problem either. Perhaps Munsie and myself and Joe and many others should vacate the premises and you guys can spend all day complimenting each other?

But if you ever have to make any money in this business, maybe it\'s time to follow Franky\'s lead and give the customer what he wants, instead of taking offence every time someone does something other than build a shrine to you.

[Vertigo50]

All good points, but it\'s also important to remember that for every whining composer or sound engineer in this forum (including myself) there are dozens of satisfied paying customers actually USING your libraries to make some music instead of complaining about them.

I think we forget what this is all about.

I know I\'m new here, but it\'s just an observation. This is a really great forum MOSTLY, but it just gets bogged down in negativity sometimes.

Sorry, I\'m also somewhat of a philosopher. I can\'t help it.

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vertigo50:
All good points, but it\'s also important to remember that for every whining composer or sound engineer in this forum (including myself) there are dozens of satisfied paying customers actually USING your libraries to make some music instead of complaining about them.

I think we forget what this is all about.

I know I\'m new here, but it\'s just an observation. This is a really great forum MOSTLY, but it just gets bogged down in negativity sometimes.

Sorry, I\'m also somewhat of a philosopher. I can\'t help it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but there were no complaints (at least from customers).

I have not posted a single complaint about the (poor) quality of any library (although I have often posted raves) and the only time I ever really griped about a price was on Nick\'s RI - and I still bought it, and still believe I made a great purchase.

I would never dream of critcizing Scarbee\'s work. Nobody even complained about his costs either. On another thread Scarbee said something about Franky\'s prices and a few people made observations and comments: that was it.

I think Thomas must have something else on his mind. I even made a point on the thread to apologize if I\'d offended him in any way.

But for goodness sake. If you don\'t want to post, just get on with it instead of all these childish antics.

[Hans Adamson]

Scarbee is one of the most positive guys on this Forum, as well as a great artist and devoted sample developer.

He deserves some respect for the enormous amount of work he puts into producing his excellent libraries. Give him a break.

I look forward to see you again on these pages when you feel like it Scarbee!

Hans

[Chadwick]

Ditto, Hans.

From a purely selfish point of view, the more we p*ss off guys like Thomas, the less hard information we have - which is what the forums are all about. It\'s not a loss for Thomas, he\'ll still get 5 star reviews and sell library, it\'s just a loss for the rest of us who use the forum to find out if he\'ll put feature \'X\' in his next release, or would he please put up some mp3s, or midi files, or would he consider sampling instrument \'Y\'.

I also hope that Thomas feels like rejoining the forum a little further down the line.

[Deep White]

I don\'t know if I really know how Scarbee felt, but I just left a forum.

I was explaining why we couldn\'t cut the price of a CD album down to US$2 like pirate copies. (In Taiwan a CD costs about US$11, no tax needed.) Then some high school students and anonymous jerks called me names and said h*ll with all musicians and who needs music and stuff.

I never came back.

I\'m not saying Scarbee\'s idea about Franky\'s low price hurting other developers was right, and it was true that I didn\'t see Z6 & Munsie & other people\'s posts attacking Scarbee\'s works, but it doesn\'t mean that Scarbee wouldn\'t feel himself offended.

You see one of the problem about forums is that the \"tone\" people use. Some people simply have blades in their words, that whatever they say they offend people in some way and some degree. I\'m not saying that Scarbee is as fragile as glass, but if I\'m a developer, I\'d feel offended in some of you guys\' posts too, no matter you meant to or not.

It doesn\'t need offensive remarks to show the \"lack of respect\". If you are not careful when you express your opinion about some people, you ARE lacking some respect to them. We can still be \"polite & decent\" when we are questioning something about someone, unless he has shown obvious hostality first. (Wow, now it seems like the rule of engagement? http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif)

I hate to lose Scarbee in this forum. Though he showed some heat in that anti-piracy issue, he still retained his self-control very well. And I believe you all know it when a developer totally loses himself. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif Scarbee\'s not like that. But I can\'t ask him to come back, like I\'m not going back to that forum I left either. It\'s too painful there.

[Micheal Chase]

Your bass library is the best. I\'m sad to hear you\'re not coming back but I do know what you mean. I\'ve been reading these forums for about half a year or so now and can\'t believe how hostile some of the posts are. Sadly a pro like yourself is being brought down by a few regular amateur posters here who aren\'t really very expert at all in using sample libraries (as witnessed by their demos) and hurl insults like four year-olds. I understand you completely.

[Mark_Knecht]

Hey all,
Can someone pont me towards these statement s about Franky selling libraries at realyl low prices? I can\'t find them and want to understand what Thomas was upset about.

Franky\'s web site sells libraries for prety much the same price as the Scarbee stuff, so I hardly could beleive that the small difference could cause this much bruhaha.

Anyway, Thomas said he\'d come back one of these days. I expect that he will and look forward to that.

Cheers,
Mark

[JerryPettit]

I\'m an attorney (music is my hobby), and I remember about 20 years ago when I was shocked SHOCKED that people were starting to advertise legal services and there were actually \"price wars\" going on regarding routine matters like Wills, uncontested divorces, bankruptcies... When the dust settled, life--and the practice of law--went on.

Computers have come down a little in price since then, too, to IBM\'s dismay...

I for one believe in competition and letting the marketplace set prices. I think it\'s healthier for everyone, and hey--it\'s the American way.

I\'ve been lurking here for quite a while and have heard nothing but good things about Scarbee\'s samples, but...he\'s certainly lost me with this snit of his, as opposed to discussing the issue--and frankly, I\'d be a little less likely to buy from him now.

I wonder...does he ever shop at WalMart, or only at his local Mom and Pop dimestore/grocer? Ever buy a book at Barnes & Noble or Borders, or does he only frequent the little corner bookshop?

I suspect Adam Smith\'s \"invisible hand\" is giving him the invisible finger right now. (That\'s an economics joke, folks--they\'re a really funny bunch!)

Jerry

[franz]

Hey Jerry did you buy your mercedes at walmart?

the truth is, developers have to shop at walmart, they can\'t afford to shop anywhere else.

most people here (with exeptions) do not buy professional sounds and the pro\'s who do are not here. the press is about 2 years behind the times, and who needs quality anyways?

c ya scarbee,
the funk lives!!
f

[Matt Ragan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JerryPettit:
I wonder...does he ever shop at WalMart, or only at his local Mom and Pop dimestore/grocer? Ever buy a book at Barnes & Noble or Borders, or does he only frequent the little corner bookshop?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I remember correctly, Scarbee is from Denmark, and lives there currently, so he may not be doing a lot of shopping at WalMart. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif



[This message has been edited by Matt Ragan (edited 04-20-2002).]

[Scott Speed]

Hi Scarbee,

I\'m really sorry to see it come to this for you. There are always going to be a few people who have absolutely nothing better to do than rip on other people, but that\'s true of anywhere you go in life, whether it be a chat room or the supermarket.
In other words, ignore the idiots. Sometimes it\'s not easy because they tend to shout the loudest, but they only do that because it\'s the only way they can get any attention.
I think your spirit is more of an artist than a developer...in other words, you need a thicker skin, mate. You have a lot to contribute as an artist as well as a devloper, and from what I\'ve heard, your libraries are a testament to that. Don\'t let a few people get you down, because they certainly don\'t speak for the majority.

Regards,
Scott

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SCARBEE:
Hi,

I have posted many times on this forum and always enjoyed reading threads here. I have tried to raise the bar of sampling with my libraries and also trying to be helpful to users. But things seem to have changed lately...

To be honest I feel both personally insulted and even discouraged to continue my sampling work when I post or read posts here. Why on the earth should I spend 6 months, 7 days a week, 12 hours a day sampling and programnming a library to sell it out for nothing - to a prize set by anonymous forum posters? It seems to be the only issue here: to get most for least.

There is no respect left towards developers visiting the forum and I just can\'t accept this.

I hope that things will change and I will gladly return, but for now its \"bye\".

sorry

Thomas Hansen Skarbye


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Munsie]

\"You sell professional products for the professional end user. Not the average john doe\'s who don\'t know sh*t about the tedious process and art of sampling.\"

Ofcourse Scarbee\'s products are professional and I would assume professionals DO purchase his libraries. That\'s a no brainer. No one that I know of on this forum is knocking anything about his libraries. How could we?

But don\'t go confusing how important the average Joe is to the sample market. For every commercial composer who may purchase a sample library, there is probably 100\'s of John Does looking at the same libraries. And ofcourse we don\'t know $ h i t about the \"tedious process and art of sampling\". That has nothing to do with how we judge or why we purchase a library.

For the record, Scarbee produces electric bass libraries, how many orchestra/commercial composers who know the \"tedious process and art of sampling\" are going to actually need this library? Now compare that to the average John Doe who is probably into pop/hip hop/rock etc, so who is he really selling his libraries to?

What this thread and other recent threads were commenting on was nothing about the quality or prices of Scarbee\'s libraries. I and others commented on the fact that Thomas seemed to be concerned with Franky coming out with several libraries this year, and Franky commented he was going to keep his prices within reach of the typical user. (YES!!) Thomas commented Franky should not low ball his prices, that it may end up hurting himself or possibly the whole \"group\" which I and others took as meaning sample developers. That is the basis for the heated debate. If Thomas can throw statements like that in a public forum and not expect some major heat, then he really needs to slow down on the ENTER key. I see now that he has removed his comments. From a business perspective I think he made the right choice to remove his comments.

I do think certain developers need to seriously slow down their public postings. When known developers start posting personal thoughts about issues other than their libraries like politics, piracy, etc. Us John Doe\'s don\'t seperate the two. (Sample Developer and actual human being with feelings.) We tend to remember it was that \"Developer\" who triggered that heated response, not just another user on the forum. I\'ve read too many comments that an e end user won\'t purchase a certain library because of the developer\'s comments on a forum. That is just nuts.

Advice: Developers who want to particpate in the BS, get a 2nd id (or 2) and use those if you want to type before you think. But limit your business forum id JUST for specific responses to your product threads. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Franky]

LOL Munsie !
Actually sometimes i get carried away and post something without thinking and 2 minutes after posting i rush back to that forum to delete the post and pray no one read it... hehehehe http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I personally feel Thomas is a great developper and all around great and polite guy, people have to remember i don\'t have to give a large chunk of my earnings to a big distributor like he and others do, then again i do not get the exposure they do, that\'s one of the reasons i can price my products maybe a bit less than these developpers who have to give a large % to distributors. Having said that, i have spoke to Thomas and really i do beleive he just got carried away in the moment and posted something he knew may be misunderstood by others and removed it.

Thomas i beleive you should stay, we need great developpers like you to keep this forum alive and kicking, we all make mistakes and get carried away with our postings sometimes (me specially), but everyone has a right to their opinion that\'s what makes this forum great, to disagree and be ardent about it is also great imho !

Kindly,
Franky
Vintaudio www.vintaudio.com (\"http://www.vintaudio.com\")

[JerryPettit]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by franz:
Hey Jerry did you buy your mercedes at walmart?

the truth is, developers have to shop at walmart, they can\'t afford to shop anywhere else.
f<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you might have missed my point, which was that eventually the WalMarts and Barnes & Nobles will win out if they provide a better value. Competition is a good thing, but not without some pain to those who don\'t keep up--for instance, by remaining in the forum and arguing the value of quality over price, etc.

And I don\'t drive a Mercedes, because my 1995 Ford is a better value to me. Glad I had the choice. :-)

The \"Mercedes\" crack was a lawyer joke, right? Should I be miffed and leave the forum, or perhaps I\'ve heard a lawyer joke or two in my day...?

Jerry

[Deep White]

I think Franky has pointed it out here: Scarbee did delete his own posts soon after he posted them.

And it could have stopped right there.

(I once saw a post in another forum and got very angry about it and replied. After I posted my reply I found that the original post had been deleted by the member, so I deleted my furious reply too.)

But no. The hounds had to dig it out and chase after it.

We really have to ask ourselves: what do we want in this forum? If you don\'t want flame, why kept on re-posting & attacking some speicific remark, which the one that said it already regreted and deleted?

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Deep White:


But no. The hounds had to dig it out and chase after it.

If you don\'t want flame, why kept on re-posting & attacking some speicific remark, which the one that said it already regreted and deleted?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I\'ll tell you why. Because this is a forum that exists ostensibly to discuss sample libraries. Because Thomas posted an appeal to other sample developers that selling \'low\' would hurt them all.

I replied to it because I wanted to make the point that potential profits are not necessarily increased by higher prices, just as I took the time and trouble to earlier point out to Thomas on another thread that the customer was the one suffering from developers\' efforts to fight piracy.

\'Hounds\', \'idiots\'? Instead of simply carrying on the discussion, Thomas deleted his remarks. Fine. But Thomas then went and posted that he was leaving. That somehow he\'d had his feelings hurt.

Then he started a new thread saying the same thing. The people who were not involved in the discussion came along and felt sorry for him; that the nasty \'idiots\' should be ignored; that they\'re spoiling it for everyone, etc.

And Thomas made another statement (I think it was in his second exit) that developers weren\'t getting enough \'respect\'.

Well, I don\'t think customers get enough respect in this sector. If developers want to produce libraries and then give them away, nobody has any right at all to say anything.

But you can\'t have it both ways. You can\'t make the lion\'s share of your posts related to how you can accrue more money and then go all artistic as soon as anyone suggests something other than what you want to hear.

I\'ll tell you what was disrespectful (apart from your \'hounds\', comment and the two \'idiots\' comments), it was disrespectful to take what I, Munsie and Tokyo Joe said and then warp it and hold it up as if we had insulted him. We did not insult him.

The last time I saw such behavior was when I used to teach at grade school.

I am sick to death of hearing all this babble about \'professionals\' and \'amateurs\', and how we amateurs simply don\'t possess the intellectual currency to possibly grasp what pains the developers suffer for their art. It has nothing whatever to do with anything, and the fact that I keep having to say it means that people actually expect us to keep mentioning it.

Of course developers work hard. Maybe we should be given a template with our undying thanks at the beginning of every post? I am thankful to the deveoplers who created the libraries I own, but do I have to say it every single time I post?

I\'m allowed to comment on a demo as long as it is positive. I am allowed to comment on a library as long as I have purchased it. I am allowed to talk to a developer as long as I include great screeds of fawning compliments. I am allowed to comment on a price as long as I include a timesheet showing how \'poor\' developers have to work 25 hours a day, eight days a week.

Then, when members of this forum offer suggestions as to how developers might actually increase their profits, it is interpreted as rude?

I think a call for a cartel in any industry is big news. Whether Thomas retracted it or not is irrelevant. In fact, deleting his post is not a detraction, it is an effort to cover his tracks.

If Thomas is seven years old, I apologize profusely (even more than I already have - I have grovelled and grovelled in an attempt not to offend) but if he is a fully-grown man, why not discuss the merits of such a cartel? Why not explain what you meant instead of saying you didn\'t mean it?

Ninety percent of the ridiculous behavior on the forum comes from developers (not all, thank goodness, but I shouldn\'t even have to say that because we know who they are). Please don\'t project that behavior onto undeserving recipients.

I\'m going to blaspheme and say that this forum will not suffer one bit from Thomas\' absence. Many people would rather that I disappeared and Thomas was here in my stead, but that\'s what Thomas was after with his dramatic and lengthy \'demise\'.

But I think they\'ll get their wish soon. Unless I see more real people here (there are quite a few, and I enjoy their comments and their banter, and the technical tips on offer) I think I might exit three times before I become Greta Garbo, and then Thomas can come back and whine about prices and piracy again.

My Karma is in balance (except for the vein on my forehead).




[This message has been edited by Z6 (edited 04-21-2002).]

[Franky]

I have to agree with alot of what Z6 just wrote, as developpers we can\'t have it both ways, if we\'re gonna post personal comments and personal views on this forum, just because we\'re developpers does not grant us and should not grant us immunity from comments from the rest of the community, in fact what i like about this forum is the right to agree to disagree and the vigorous and challenging exchanges between users and developpers (that\'s excluding personal attacks by users AND certain developpers, POLITICAL posts, wtf does that have to do in a sample library forum ???), if it wasn\'t, it would be boring as hell, i\'m sorry but if you\'re gonna write stuff without thinking and press that enter key, well you better be ready to stand behind your positions and views like anybody else, being a developper does not and should not grant us any kind of special status imho. But again like i stated before Thomas did retract his post and that was a good thing, i wish Thomas would stay and continue being a contributor to this forum but again we need to have thicker skin if you\'re gonna post and not do the shocked and irreconcilably scarred routine everytime people disagree with us and threaten to leave, it\'s not very mature and professional imho.

Z6, i don\'t want to start anything in this thread, but i never said people can\'t comment on libraries if they don\'t own them, i just think doing an IN DEPTH and definite review style post on a library simply by listening to demoes isn\'t very accurate and shouldn\'t be advertised as such.
We can debate this in another thread if you want , i\'d be glad too (isn\'t this what this great forum is for ?) let\'s just not turn the focus away too much from the main subject (like i just did... guilty as charged). http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Franky * turns on thicker skin growing machine*
Vintaudio www.vintaudio.com (\"http://www.vintaudio.com\")

[Nick Phoenix]

Franky,
The political posts are my attempt to change the world. If everyone did that little, Bush and all his buddies would be in jail. It doesn\'t take much to change the world. I am seriously considering giving away free libraries to those that do the same. You don\'t realize it, but your future is at stake. 9/11 delayed a gigantic worldwide stock crash. Time to wake up.

[midphase]

Great Nick! So now, after the FBI and CIA shut this place down for a couple of days (while frantically scanning the server for anarchistic posts), you expect us to get them on our tails for a freebee copy of QLB or VOTA?

Sounds good! Where do I sign up?

[Deep White]

Z6,

1. \"Hounds\" means you didn\'t want to give up, and that you want blood(flame) instead of giving someone a chance to withdraw something he regreted saying.

One thing you have to know is that you\'re in a forum, where everything you say is \"kept exposed\" to the world. Now imagine if you said something stupid and waved your hands to your friends, \"forget it, I never said that, don\'t ever mention it again ok?\" and the next day you found that it was known all over the campus/company and everybody was laughing at you? That\'s the reason why it\'s a \"manner\" to delete our replies if the original member deleted his/hers very soon.

2. When did I ever call you idiot? (I even press ctrl-F to search the word \"idiot\" and none of them was from MY posts.)

3. I don\'t agree with \"low price might hurt the overall benifits of developers\" either, so I never said you guys were wrong about that.

4. I never took this - or even implied - as a \"professional v.s. amateur\" thing.

Yet it is also true that people not working/profiting from a job tends to give out irresponsible comments towards it and people that work/profit from it. (Again this is for general, not against you & Munsie & Tokyo Joe on this event.) The members that knew nothing about record business, and were not making any money with it, said really irresponsible things to attack us musicians in this business. (One of them said we didn\'t want to lower the price of the CDs was because we\'d have less money to buy drugs - OMG I don\'t even smoke!) I think that\'s why the \"people in the business\" (ie song writers in record business & developers in library business) tend to feel \"not enough respected\" easily.

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Deep White:
[B]Z6,

2. When did I ever call you idiot? (I even press ctrl-F to search the word \"idiot\" and none of them was from MY posts.)
B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, sorry. It does look as if I accused you of calling me an idiot (which I most certainly am a lot of the time but Munsie and Joe were not).

I just wanted to gab about this. I had no idea anyone would go off in a huff. I wish he hadn\'t.

Again, apologies to anyone I offended. That wasn\'t my intention.

[SCARBEE]

Ok. I am tired of this bad vibe. Lets all be friends again. Z6 - here is my virtual hand. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gifShake it!

I regret, whatever I posted about prizes late at night after a week full of work and stress. That\'s it. It wasn\'t meant the way it appeared. Sorry.

I am not to pride to apologize or return. Here I am again.

Now please kill this thread so we can move on.

regards

Thomas

[Munsie]

Thomas,

Welcome back!! These forums are like potato chips. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Sure I didn\'t agree with your comments, and I hope I presented my point of view in a mature fashion that did not insult you on a personal level. If I did, let me apologize right now, because I NEVER intended to bring anything else to the table except for some good debate. Personally I was looking forward to your continuing comments about \"that subject\". But yah, it\'s good to move on I guess.

Hey, you posted some links to a few of your tunes with your vocals! I\'m on a dial up and it\'s taking forever. I\'m 70% into downloading your \"Rain\" track. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Will post comments in the thread you posted the links to.

[Tokyo Joe]

Thomas,

Great to see you back on the forum.

Are you working on a new library at the moment? And if so, can you tell me anything about it?

I\'m curious as to what\'s next for Scarbee. To my mind you have pretty much set the standard for Bass Gtr Sample libraries, as far as realism and playablity goes.

Thanks in advance.

[SCARBEE]

Hi Tokyo Joe,

Yes something new and surprising is comming up in a few weeks...not a bass, not a guitar, but... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/tongue.gif

Thomas

[Tokyo Joe]

Now I\'m REALLY curious http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

[KingIdiot]

hmm
Chapman Stick?

That would be wild http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif


------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[Plundrik]

What if the one that can guess what is coming gets a free copy? http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif My guess: The scarbee j-brass library! Well, maybe not..

[SCARBEE]

Hi Munsie,

Hope you enjoy the vocal tracks.I thought I would contribute with something positive.

The numbers are 5-6 years old - the bass used on Rain and Diamnond coloured angels were early bass beta-version on Akai (Yamaha bass)

All drums are programmed by me using different custom made kits.

I played everything except the electric guitar. A good friend of mine Karsten Lagerman added background vocals to the numbers. I sing the lead and all the hi-vocal-stuff.

I never used the songs as I fell in love with bass sampling instead...

PS. Tokyo Joe - I have no hard feelings towards you at all. I apologize for being stupid. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/blush.gif

Munsie - one day we can discuss prizes, but we better leave it alone for a looooong time.

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SCARBEE:
Ok. I am tired of this bad vibe. Lets all be friends again. Z6 - here is my virtual hand. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gifShake it!

I regret, whatever I posted about prizes late at night after a week full of work and stress. That\'s it. It wasn\'t meant the way it appeared. Sorry.

I am not to pride to apologize or return. Here I am again.

Now please kill this thread so we can move on.

regards

Thomas<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Consider it shaken Scarbee. I\'ll always try to fight for the consumer (\'cause I am one) but don\'t take it personally, please.

I absolutely do understand how hard you guys work, and I really do appreciate the wonderful libraries that I own and intend to own. I\'ll really try not to include \'barbs\' in my posts; but it is the way I communicate (I don\'t know how \'not to\').

I hope your future offerings are available in ALL formats because, as I have stated before, your bass libraries have a massive potential market outside the giga world.

I think I\'ll shut up now. I\'ve caused enough trouble.