Tweaking service?

[KingIdiot]

Ok I\'ve mentioned it to a few people and have been toying with it in my head, and wasn\'t going ot post something on it, until I talked to developers, but then I thought I should ask potential customers first.


I\'ve been reading/posting here over the past few years, and most regular have come to know that I am a freak for tweaking samples.

Combining and EQing and reprogramming, etc.

Would you guys pay for a service to have your samples tweaked?

Consider I make a custom patch using EQ/reverb/plugs etc. At the sample level and the giga programming level. I post demos of the tweaks in use with MIDI files etc. blah blah

Then you can send me your original CD\'s and I can tweak the raw samples and send them back.

Say 10-20 bucks a tweak or so. With possibly some multiple \"batches\"

It can go further. I could make \"combination patches\" from multiple libraries/makes. It would require the customer to have all the original CDs and such, but could prove to be an awesome option.

Would this be a service people would be interested in, and even pay for?

Would Develoeprs even let me do this?

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[tob]

I think it sounds like a great idea http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif And i can imagine that GS users who dont have a bunch of integrated DX/VST effects would be interested in that kind of service.

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KingIdiot:


Then you can send me your original CD\'s and I can tweak the raw samples and send them back.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I don\'t think you\'ll have any difficulty finding people to pay $20 for such a service.

But the above quote is interesting. If you already have the orginal samples (that you\'ve tweaked and prepared midi files for), why bother going to all the trouble of getting the customer to \'send\' the \'raw samples\'?

I doubt you\'ll have trouble finding a market, but I suspect that the developers might get a bit miffed. Sending the \'original\' CD\'s back and forth seems like a long-winded way to make it look as if you\'re not \'creating a new library\'.

Perhaps you\'d have to do some kind of royalty deal with developers, but then you get into a whole complex maze of issues when all you want to do is find a market for your skills?

It sounds to me like the way you might have to do it is to let the developer sell your tweaks as \'upgrades\' or \'add-ons\'.

Maybe you could build a little site where you could do various \'sets\' (as you say), but make it a \'sanctioned\' Giga-sample update site? Most Giga developers know of you and respect you, and you might be the only person who could pull this off. It would certainly add to the value OF ALL LIBRARIES, if we could make those libraries truly \'dynamic\'.

Perhaps TASCAM would be the first stop for this. This is an excellent idea and I\'m sure you would provide a great service (and developers worried about copyright should also consider that maybe some people would buy an \'original\' library just so they could get King\'s add-ons). This could be a win-win-win situation for customers, developers, and you.

I hope this works out. Best of luck. I am looking forward not only to hearing your tweaks, but maybe buying a few (I can already think of a few things I\'d like to do with some libraries and my Ztar, but my lack of brain-power, skills and free time means it may be the next century before I get what I want).

I hope you are \'permitted\' to pursue this line of thought and business. It can only enrich the sector.

I can already sense a whole bunch of \'guitar players\' who are champing at the bit for a few customizations.

[KingIdiot]

Hey tob, I agree http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif


Z6, the reason I ask for original CDs is because of Watermarking and copyright issues. I dont want people using my watermarks in their music http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif.

I dont think develoepers would go for selling an update feature like this. It requires production time and money that most of them cant or dont want to spend... not to mention the issues that come up with some distributers and contracts. If I do it, I keep production costs to a minimal by not doing runs, but only \"one offs\".

about the Ztar. I got mine a week and a half ago. I love it. I\'ve already poited out a few thigns to Harvey that had him laughing and saying \"you know...know one\'s noticed that until you\" A few things that have me excited about the updates. I might have to get on a beta team for that http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Also remember mine is a bit tricked out. So I might want to program too much http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Anyhow. One thing I can suggest is. Lower the release times to 0.1 on most solo samples that dont use release triggers (even some that do) then play them with hammer ons/without triggers in guitar mode. FANTASTIC! Makes a world of difference.


anyhow other optional ideas are adding release trigger options to libraries that never had them programmed. I can add them to Wuantum Leap Brass. And even Miroslav...if I ever buy it.... Also Garritan Orchestral Strings and DD solo instruments (tho it gets strange in solo\'s)

Not to mention impulses to make them all \"fit together\"

it could be exciting.

I\'ve alrady figured out ways to almost \"batch\" the process. I\'ve spent some time figuring out ways to even do wave edits (including cuts and pastes) in near batch form.


------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[composer22]

Id be interested...save me alot of time

[tob]

If you could get access to the developers separate mic channels you could offer versions with less close mics and get a bigger sound in a natural way. I still want to hear how those comprehensive librarys sound with only the room mics. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

[Lancelink]

Sounds like a great idea to me! I would be glad to send the original discs for that kind of service. I\'d insure the crud out of them first though! HeHe!

Lance

[This message has been edited by Lancelink (edited 04-16-2002).]

[Robert Kral]

KING:

\"I don\'t want people using my watermarks in their music\"

Now THAT is a classic quote!!!

http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Michiel Post]

Hi King, Great idea. Send me an email as I will gladly let you program extra\'s on my existing libraries. I\'ll be your first customer then.
Michiel Post
postaudioNOSPAMmedia@xs4all.nl

[KingIdiot]

Woohoo.

I\'d really like to get developer Support whereever I can.

Its definietly somethign that if I go through with I\'d like to have.

While I can do alot of ARt fcile tweaks I\'d sitll like to share actual sample end tweaks and not have to put the cost of printing/pressing/producing these tweaks on to the developer.

I will Email you tomorrow morning Michiel.

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[Munsie]

As a consumer I hope you are able to proceed with this. Looking forward to other developers posting their thoughts on this. This would be so sweet...

[KingIdiot]

Munz, I Think something like this could be an adventure for me. It really depends on if there is a market out there to make it viable to spend the time and money on gear to do it. Big tweaks take time even if I automate them.

If I get developer support it could be an awesome opportunity to do multiple sample edits and even let them sell them as \"add ons\" if you purchase a library. I have a few ideas on how it could be worked out.

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 04-22-2002).]

[drg]

I would definetly pay $20 if you could make a distorted version of the QL strat. (I understand it would not be reliable for anthing more than monophonic parts.) single tones and harmonics, preferablly through a pod like in the demo. I bet others would pay this too so they could have something to at least sketch dist. guit parts w/, or for gui solos.

[This message has been edited by drg (edited 04-22-2002).]

[composer22]

I would definately be interested in your tweakdom, keep it up, especially for my own professional library

[Munsie]

\"Munz, I Think something like this could be an adventure for me.\"

Hopefully a profitable adventure for you! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

\"It really depends on if there is a market out there to make it viable to spend the time and money on gear to do it.\"

I think you\'ll find a market there, how big remains to be seen. But be careful, because you could find yourself pretty busy in no time at all doing these mods. I would consider charging a flat rate fee per hour, and then getting the specs for the tweak from the customer and giving them an estimate. Obviously \"sample consultant\" needs to be added to your website and business cards. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

\"Big tweaks take time even if I automate them.\"

This is why the need for a flat rate charge if possible, it will avoid alot of potential pitfalls and confusion.

\"If I get developer support it could be an awesome opportunity to do multiple sample edits and even let them sell them as \"add ons\" if you purchase a library. I have a few ideas on how it could be worked out.\"

I would imagine you would get a green light from most developers. I\'d like to hear what Scarbee, Nick, Franky, etc. has to say.

Now I\'m totally wondering what \"tweaking\" you could do?

Could you add effects to an existing library to create a new instrument? Say a chorused version, reverb, distortion, compression, etc??

I have the E-Bass from Yellow Tools, they have seperate patches for slides and fx. Could you create a new instrument that contains the fx and slides in the higher unassigned keys? This way the bass and slides/fx would be playable from 1 instrument across the entire keyboard!!

If I sent you a collection of samples and instructions for progamming I\'m assuming you could return an instrument ready to play?

I would think a more appropriate description of your title would be \"Custom Sample Programming\" rather than tweaking. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I see this almost on a parallel to a computer software consultant who comes into your house or business and customizes the software, operating system for you. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

You should immediately learn how to tweak other sample formats as well. Plus conversion too! I can see customers wanting tweaks for other formats, conversions, etc. You may seriously be onto something here King. Keep on molding the idea. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[KingIdiot]

Aha.

See we have a different idea of what I want to offer here.

The idea I have is to make tweaks to libraries, and then share those specific tweaks at a fixed value for the library.

Say for instance. QL 56 Strat with distortion. I coul dost a demo of three different distortions on QL 56 and sell the \"service\" of crating one or all of these variations with the raw data on your Sample CD.

This keeps it \"simple\" on my end.

Your idea is more in the realm of custom edits per customer,a nd that would require a per hour rate or discussions with the end customer. Thats definitely not somethign I\'m interested in doing.

As for the questions about tweaking.

I\'m talking about adding release triggers to older libraries if possible. Adding reverb and EQ to \"mimic\" sounds of popular recordings, adding release triggers with new reverb. Add FX, etc. This is all sample based edits, and with many neew libraries requires having the raw data sent to me from the customer him/herself.

About your Ebass question, that would be an easy ART file update. Very Easy IMO. I dont have Ebass tho so I\'m not sure exactly how its laid out.

Conversions between formats should be up to people like Garth and the guys at Awave. However maximizing potential of Akai converted libraries for Giga and other more recent samplers is something I could do. Say Optimize SoV to work better with Giga and samplers without RAM limitations.



------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[drg]

you should do exactly that w/ the ql strat.

[Franky]

Hmmm, interesting concept.
Interested in doing some guitars pick attack sounds, fret noises and percussive guitar effects for a guitar library ? LOL !

Seriously i guess has a developper i have no problems with some of your concepts King, tweaking and art files is fine, But for actually selling modified versions of the samples i think you would at the very least need a license agreement from the developper, i don\'t think having people send you their original copies of the libraries would get you off the hook there.

Anyways an interesting concept, good luck in your endeavors.

Kindly,
Franky
Vintaudio www.vintaudio.com (\"http://www.vintaudio.com\")

[Munsie]

\"But for actually selling modified versions of the samples i think you would at the very least need a license agreement from the developper..\"

Hmmm, if we sent King our original cd\'s to modify, and he sends it back to us along with an enhanced version on cdr, is that a violation of the license? King isn\'t selling the samples, he is just selling his services to modify an existing library. Or perhaps I\'m confused again what King is trying to do? http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[KingIdiot]

hmm.. well see I dont consider this selling a modified copy of the library. Obviously I want the devloper to be comfortable with this, but If the original customer sends me a copy of their library (and I keep records of serial numbers so the same one can\'t be used twice), and I do modifications to the library they already own, I dont think its selling a new library. Its more like being hired to do some tweaking.

The service in itself needs the customer to own the original library before they can get the tweak.

Obviously Developers can get their own libraries \"tweaked\" and offer the tweaks as updates or withing their libraries. This really only works for developers who dont do massive print cycles tho.

I dont see it much different than taking my library to my friends house and having him reprogram it for my Ztar because he knows how.. The main difference is I\'d be paid for it (actually I\'d pay my friend 20 bucks too!! )



------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[Franky]

Guys, since i\'m the only developer really responding in depth to this issue, i\'m going to try to be the devil\'s advocate here and be really one sided for the sake of argument
And i\'ll try to be as honest as i can be on this issue, i think it\'s more important than to be popular...
LOL ! ok ?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KingIdiot:
hmm.. well see I dont consider this selling a modified copy of the library. Obviously I want the devloper to be comfortable with this, but If the original customer sends me a copy of their library (and I keep records of serial numbers so the same one can\'t be used twice), and I do modifications to the library they already own, I dont think its selling a new library. Its more like being hired to do some tweaking.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you better be alot more legally secure than having the developer \"being comfortable\" with that before you start doing this, if your taking an existing library and sending it back on another cd you first of all have copied the library which in part is illegal because you are not the rightful owner of the library ( i even think you can\'t copy a library period, but not sure about that one), how can we be sure you\'re not always using the same samples of the library you have modified and sending back always that same copy ? answer : we can\'t be sure, serials can be modified in 5 seconds on the cd you\'re burning... therefor imho you need a license from the developer at the very least.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KingIdiot:

I dont see it much different than taking my library to my friends house and having him reprogram it for my Ztar because he knows how.. The main difference is I\'d be paid for it (actually I\'d pay my friend 20 bucks too!! )
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There\'s a huge difference, in your example you\'re talking about reprograming which i am totally fine with Art files etc etc no problemo...

My problem is with modifying existing samples and selling them back to the owner which implies creating a new CD with the library and shipping it to him.
However nicely you try and wrap your idea, it\'s still selling a modified version of a library which i think would be illegal, and I for one would not be interested in people doing so without prior approval and signing of a legally binding contract.

I suggest you check out the legal ramifications about this if you are going to disregard what i wrote, i\'m not 100 % sure i\'m right because i haven\'t verified the existing copyright laws concerning this but i suggest you do before starting. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Ok ...*takes off mean devil\'s advocate hat and becomes Franky again*

Franky
Vintaudio www.vintaudio.com (\"http://www.vintaudio.com\")

[Munsie]

\"My problem is with modifying existing samples...\"

Hi Franky,

I don\'t even think I\'ve read your license yet! gasp! But as an end user am I allowed to modify your samples for personal use in my music? If the answer is yes...

Why can\'t I hire someone to do the tweaking for me? If I go to him (sending the original cd to him) or he comes to me and works on the samples in my studio, should be no difference. Right?

Looking forward to your reply. Thanks.

[Franky]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KingIdiot:

Also what I mean by serial numbers is the numbers on the original CD so two people aren\'t sending me the same copy of an original CD. Some developers can be sure if they are watermarking each customers CD differently. Thats not saying all will know of course http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That\'s my point, no way to be sure.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KingIdiot:

Anyhow, I must say that a few of the developers like that idea of me working with them on updates/ideas/art files. They are supportive in that fact, even down to sample modifications. Not Bad http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also like that idea of you working on updates/ideas/art files. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
Who are these developers open to sample modification by end users ? Michiel seems to be open to modifications made to his libraries but didn\'t mention anything about sample modification by and for end users, and it would be fun if these developers that seem to be open to sample modification would manifest themselves in this thread so we could get into the legal aspects of this and get their input.

Kindly,
Franky
Vintaudio www.vintaudio.com (\"http://www.vintaudio.com\")

[Franky]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert Kral:
Franky / KING
Perhaps King could work FOR the original library developers on a bunch of version 2s or paid updates instead of it being just the one on one transaction with the customer?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have absolutly no problems with this as described. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert Kral:

But if it\'s not possible any other way for legal reasons, and the developer agrees, the KING could come out with a host of version 2 patches and sell them, instead of just the odd tweak here and there?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Again, that would be fine with me. The key lies in your phrase \"the developer agrees\".
As long as someone doesn\'t decide to do this without consulting and reaching an agreement with the developer, i\'m fine with it, just not without consent and contract with the developer. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Kindly,
Franky
Vintaudio.

[This message has been edited by Franky (edited 04-24-2002).]

[Franky]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Munsie:
as an end user am I allowed to modify your samples for personal use in my music?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course you can as long as you aint selling them, you can do whatever you want with them in your private music.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Munsie:
Why can\'t I hire someone to do the tweaking for me? If I go to him (sending the original cd to him) or he comes to me and works on the samples in my studio, should be no difference. Right?
Looking forward to your reply. Thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, there is a big difference imho.
First off, you are creation another cd with the library on it, selling it and shipping it to a costumer, to me this is a big no no( but again this is always in the context of the modifier not getting consent from the developer and reaching an agreement with that said developer).

As an end user, as long as you are doing this from your computer and not selling this modified version, i have absolutly no problem with that.

All i am saying, is that i have absolutly no problem with King\'s concept, except he has to have permission and a legal binding contract between him and the developer to do so. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Kindly,
Franky
Vintaudio

[KingIdiot]

>>Originally posted by KingIdiot:

Anyhow, I must say that a few of the developers like that idea of me working with them on updates/ideas/art files. They are supportive in that fact, even down to sample modifications. Not Bad

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also like that idea of you working on updates/ideas/art files.
Who are these developers open to sample modification by end users ? Michiel seems to be open to modifications made to his libraries but didn\'t mention anything about sample modification by and for end users, and it would be fun if these developers that seem to be open to sample modification would manifest themselves in this thread so we could get into the legal aspects of this and get their input.<<


No, I mean during the development cycle and for the developers themselves to do what they wish with (maybe updates). Not to do my own updates and \"sell\" them http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[Franky]

Thx for clearing that up King, makes more sense now. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif


Franky.

[Phattlippz]

King--is there any way to sell a CD for a specific Giga library that contains no samples, but only the \"data\" associalted with the patch (or whatever)? Twice I\'ve purchased products that are like this: the first time it was Kevin Wakefield\'s \"Virtual Symphony\" floppy for the Kurz K2000, where he programmed a ton of useful programs (in the form of macros) for the Miroslav MINI Akai disk. The second was Dan Fisher\'s \"power translator\" floppies for the Roland 700 series library for the Kurzweil when he worked for Sweetwater. Also contained very useful programs in macro form on a floppy. As useful as these were, I can only imagine how cool it would be to have a product like this for commercially-available Giga libraries. If you could sell it as a CD-ROM separate from whatever library it\'s for, there\'s no potential legal issue with developers, you don\'t need to mess around with license numbers, and everone benefits. The end user gets much more use from his or her Giga library, the developer may sell more copies of the library if you\'re \"macro\" CD makes the library indespensible, and you establish a little cottage industry for yoursself. Of course this would assume it\'s possible to create a separate CD of files that allow you to load your own licensed samples in conjunction with the new \"patches\".

[KingIdiot]

Phattlipz,

Actually I thought of that. But I\'m not sure how to go about building macros that would to the massive amounts of \"tweaks\" to the actual samples. Especially with PLug ins/ Effects added. But yes. Making a \"patch\" disc would be awesome http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I could always do \"impulses\" and set up macros/scripts that work with peoples \"favorite\" editors, but then I\'m still limited, since impulses dont work with compression and pitch shifting and the like.

Doing just ART files is simple, and I can do that as downloads from the net.

Anyhow, I really like the idea of a \"patch\" since it doesn\'t require the end user to send CD\'s back and forth. I\'ll look into it a bit deeper.

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[Robert Kral]

Franky / KING

Perhaps King could work FOR the original library developers on a bunch of version 2s or paid updates instead of it being just the one on one transaction with the customer?

\'Course I have no idea what\'s involved with that. EG developer takes half the money and KING decides it\'s not worth it!

But if it\'s not possible any other way for legal reasons, and the developer agrees, the KING could come out with a host of version 2 patches and sell them, instead of just the odd tweak here and there?

Really, maybe I\'m the idiot.
http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Robert Kral (edited 04-24-2002).]

[KingIdiot]

no no no http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

franky dont get me wrong. I want Developer support both of mind and legally http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif Which is why I\'m tossing this out there and hoping for developer comments. I was originally going to Email all the developers but I found that it might not be worth it if there is no customer base. It still seems pretty small IMO, so it may not happen at all as a service outside of developers contacting me.

Also what I mean by serial numbers is the numbers on the original CD so two people aren\'t sending me the same copy of an original CD. Some developers can be sure if they are watermarking each customers CD differently. Thats not saying all will know of course http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I have \"batching\" concepts that are really unique for sample editing. Which make it very easy for me to modify the samples in a \"specific\" way after I\'ve dont it once.

Robert, the whole problem with that is some developers and most BIG publishers would find it a \"waste of time\". not to mention how much money they may charge the end user for the updates.

While I dont want to tell what developers what they should charge for updates, In the end If I have any way to bring down the price (by losing money) I would...but then it gets to the point, like you said, is it worth it? I\'d lose alot of time for my main \"gig\" which is composing.

Anyhow, I must say that a few of the developers like that idea of me working with them on updates/ideas/art files. They are supportive in that fact, even down to sample modifications. Not Bad http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[Michiel Post]

Hi gentlemen,
I am very willing to let King do his wonder-tricks on my samples. The way I see it is comparable to a music production. I finished the library. One customer needs specific modifications; he or she could do them by himself or let them be done by the experts who happen to be everywhere around modern studios. I see King as a genius expert who can easily add things that are of value for end-users. His art-files in the other messages have proven that point.
I finished 12 libraries so far and I\'m working on many new projects. I hate to admit it but making good updates for the existing libraries is not in the top ten of my priority list. Sorry. King however wants to do just that: add new features and tweaks. So we\'re doing business now. King will add good updates and we\'re going to bring them to our end-users. My role as a developer is not crusial in this process: When I buy a piece of music and I need to have it chopped up or shortened or create a 5.1 version of it then I just ask permission and have the job done (or rather do it myself!). i think the same is true for libraries. When you need to change little things (even down to the sample level) you are not prohibited by the license agreement to change the samples to fit your needs. I have many customers who tweaked my products in considerable ways to better serve their individual situation. I would encourage every buyer of a library to open up the instrument in the editor and start manipulating the sound to find new variations that are of value. If you want to share your articulations with others, please do so. If you want to sell your articulations why not? The Kurzweil disk Daniel Fisher made was a magnificent example of such a creative process that resulted in many happy faces!

When you have a library that needs a distortion (or noise removal) or an other tweak you can call King and ask him if he offers that tweak. I must say at a spectular low fee! When the original developer doesn\'t object to this procedure I can\'t see any obstacles for a valuable service.
I feel King needs all the support he can get in doing whatever he is doing.

Michiel Post

[fmfgs]

Hello Michiel
Congratulations! You are the first developper who IMO fully understands the benefit of Kings initiative for sample developpers and is aware of the importance of \"happy faces\" images/icons/smile.gif
If I ever produce a sample library, first thing I would do is send a copy to King and ask how he can improve my product.
If I need a specific tweak of one of the libraries I own, I would not hesitate to hire King to do the work for me. I see no difference between him doing it or any engineer or editor in any studio. I would send the data on MY removable storage medium (eg cdrw) and will get the result back on MY media (King will NOT produce any CD by himself) and I will write out a short contract that he is only allowed to use my data to do the contractual work. This will for shure cause no legal problems in Europe.
fmfgs

[KingIdiot]

Thank you both of you for the support.

I only disagre with one thing Michiel stated. There is no Genius involved images/icons/wink.gif

I think its a wonderful time to be in the \"sampling realm\".

The things I \"tweak\" on are simple things IMO. There are many software options out there for us to help make tasks easier. Maybe I\'m using the software in creative ways, but once people realize what I am doing they will say to themselves \"thats it?\", I could have done that.

The main issue is \"time\". People dont have or take (or make) the time to \"fool around\". Which is sort of the reason I thought something like this would be a good service. Id still rather people get into \"tweaking\" themselves. It could push sampling into new realms.

However, if the customer base is too small, or its \"undoable\" going to the end users. Helping Developers create updates is fine with me images/icons/smile.gif . The only issue I have with it, is that I know developers with big publishers/ditributers have problems getting updates going.

BTW, believe me I know all you developers do alot of work. In fact, tweaking is quite simple compared to what you guys do. One of the main reasons I dont want to do a \"traditional\" library is the amount of work it is to do melodic instruments.

[Munsie]

King,

I need to combine 2 instruments into 1. I need to add the 2nd instrument into the 1st one, mapped into the unused higher keys. No tweaking of the samples, just combining the two. Any idea how much this would cost and how to proceed? Thanks...

[KingIdiot]

well... Buy me the library images/icons/wink.gif

hehee

I dont want to get into doing the \"service\" for end users requiring people to send me CDs and such, Just because of the legal concerns brought up.

its really only an art file that needs to be done
so how about you do it yourself for free images/icons/wink.gif

With the instrument you want in the higher register, jsut move the regions in the editor you want them to be in. Then copy the regions, and paste it into the instrument you want to \"combine to\".

That should be it. Unless there are some different keyswitching/dimension between the instruments.

hmmm

Maybe I should do an ART file CD, and sell that.

[Aaron Levitz]

The legal issues are mostly cleared up by a system of developers approving every tweak before distribution to end users.

I think a secondary requirement might be that upon completion of a tweak, the original CD is mailed back to the original developer (to destroy at their discretion), rather than returned to the customer. Likewise, arrangements need be made to ensure the tweaked CD is acceptable for trade-in if the developer releases their own update.

In certain cases (QL57, VotA), special arrangements would be needed to ensure your edits don\'t interfere with the copy protection. Such arrangements might not be possible for any number of reasons, but this again goes back to #1 up there - if a developer doesn\'t approve the tweak for any reason, it doesn\'t go out.
Remember the very expensive lawsuits mp3.com lost after making mp3s of commercial music available online to users who provided proof that they legally owned the CDs in question. Unauthorized duplication of digital audio isn\'t worth it. But what I describe would neither be unauthorized nor duplication.

The problem I particularly don\'t want to see you wrapped up in is rationalization of piracy. If your customer recieves two CDs back, why not hand one to their friend? And if it\'s your CDR edition that falls into the wrong hands, well, it\'s already a copy. No harm in making more, right?

When a tweaked CDR version hits the Warez curcuit, it almost doesn\'t matter who the customer was. You make a very easy scapegoat.

Remember: \"No good deed goes unpunished,\" so proceed with extreme caution.

As a side note, I would like to see Donnie weigh in on this one. Even if he\'d rather hold off saying anything as a publisher, the man\'s been providing much-appreciated additional programming for other developers lately, so he\'s probably got an insight or two on <u>that</u> side of things.

[drg]

I wish Nick Phoenix would give consent for tweaking the strat- seeing that he has been COMPLETELY unresponsive to the screwed up harmonics and the lack of distorted tones.

[KingIdiot]

Well, the more convoluted the process becomes the more I\'m not anxious to do actual sample tweaks for the end user specifically. I may be able to figure out some ways for some edits via other software. Simple cuts and pastes can be done through macros and scripts. However actual effects via plug ins or even outside processing is another story.

Doing, and/or selling art files and scripts (where possible) is somethign that could happen. Say 2.95 a pop, all downloadable. I could use the money I get from that exclusively to buy libraries images/icons/smile.gif . But it would require quite a bit of ARt files, and a definitely big customer base.

However I\'m always up for the idea of helping developers, but this gets into a weird realm depending on the amount of work, and how I\'d be comp\'d for the work. Mostly a free library or free libraries is enough for me images/icons/smile.gif , but something with some extensive editing and such to the specific needs and wants of a developer might be a bit more work than things I consider \"simple\".

If didn\'t sepend alot of time already working on my \"real job\" I\'d probably be doing this for a living images/icons/smile.gif

[drg]

Hey, sample developers should just wise up and give king idiot the cd\'s that he is planning on tweaking. He is only increasing and more fully satisfying YOUR user base. What knig is offering is to do work that is obviously too time consuming for you, but quite apparently much needed as proved by infinite posts on these boards. Almost no one is ever truly happy w/ samples out of the box, and yet they have neither the time or the know-how to tweak them. This offer is really a god-send for developers and they don\'t seem to realize it!

DRG

[Munsie]

King, don\'t give up on this idea. You like tweaking samples, why not make some money from it too? You just need a way of making the developers feel secure that you\'re not stashing the libraries you work on for your own personal use, or reselling them later on down the road after you tweak them. The only problem seems to be where you\'re doing the work at. In my studio is fine, in your studio is not. images/icons/frown.gif There has to be a way! images/icons/smile.gif

[mschiff]

King,

I feel kind of dumb, but I can\'t see how to use the articulation files. I tried it with the SAM trumpet yesterday, and don\'t find any place to load the .ART file. I even looked in the help file, but didn\'t find anything there either.

?????

-- Martin

[KingIdiot]

Martin,

You need to open the GIG in the Giga Editor, then load the articulation file from the file menu. \"load articulation file\"

then save the gig/reload the gig.

[Vertigo50]

Actually, King, as someone who seems to know a heck of a lot about the Giga editor, I think a more lucrative business would be to supply a well-written affordable manual, since we STILL DON\'T HAVE ONE YET!!! Sorry, got carried away.

Seriously, though, have you ever written up any tutorials on giga or anything? I would love to get a hold of some, or maybe just pick your brain for a while. .....or steal it........

[KingIdiot]

there\'s no way I\'m gonna write a manual/tutorial on giga editing. It will jsut take too much and I wouldn\'t do the best job images/icons/smile.gif . While I know a little of my way around the editor, I would do an extremely bad job of explaining my way around it images/icons/smile.gif ......have you seen the way I type out here? hehee

however I do have ideas for some cool stuff when I actually release my own libraries...but thats some time to come.

This however can get into a cool area for other libraries images/icons/smile.gif

Also I\'ve been working with macros and scripts. I\'m trying to figure out a way to get more than ART files out to you guys.

[Vertigo50]

Apparently all my posts are disappearing, but what I said originally, is:

King, if you\'re such a wiz with giga and the editor, you should write an affordable and in-depth user manual, since we still don\'t have one!!

I\'d buy it.

[Vertigo50]

Scratch that, it just re-appeared. Are we in the twilight zone?

doo-doo doo-doo doo-doo doo-doo